RAM RAIDING

[SwagOfMumia 6]

The concept of 'free money' has been mentioned in the thread a couple of times, but in an incorrect fashion. Some of the easiest, laziest money in this entire game is received through roving gold/high silver enforcers (or worse, groups of them) being able to witness low threat/rank crim(s), off 'em, take their stuff, and then, by the time the crim's gotten to respawn, already be rolling deep and strapped to the cop shop drop off.

 

And forget about backup, that takes even longer and is more futile.

 

Being disabled and too busy to no-life an MMO, I am one of the "true silvers" of APB (gold only comes with lucky streaks; going and putting in no less effort in silver districts afterward gets me roflstomped back to silver in no time). Recently, I K'ed up and got called as backup in a witness mission - one featuring a bronzie that was witnessed with ~15k stash... by two near-max-rank, clanned up golds. On a bronze district. Neither of us had a snowball's chance in hell against them, so after they perc-ATAC'ed the bronzie for the umpteen jillionth time I grabbed the dosh, got in my Pioneer, and nitroused the hell outta there, just driving around as fast as I could, running out the timer, to force a tie.

 

The fact I had to do that was absurd. And thank goodness neither of them had a Volcano/OSMAW/ALIG/etc.

 

The time and effort the cop(s) take to get paid compared to the time and effort the crim(s) exert to get the stash and still have to take their dosh to the singular laundry (often camped by cops) is like comparing a pea to a watermelon.

 

Some basic revamps that need to be done to the crime/witness system:

 

• Implement matchmaking of a sort. If, say, a bronze and a green are grouped and are just getting some starting money, silvers and golds should simply be barred from the ability to witness them OR be required to wait until the crim(s) get backup for a balanced team like any other mission. This could be combined with a "chase/fight/capture/hold" time of 2-5 minutes, and only then do the drop offs even appear. This would, of course, only work post-revamp of the overall threat system and addressing the issue of dethreaters. That's a whole topic on its own, but a good place to start with the latter is to take people who have a history of going gold and then deliberately doing crappily to become silver (or even bronze or green) - rinse, repeat - should simply be railroaded into perma-gold.
   
• Increase the perma-witnessable stash amount to at least ~30k OR simply require cops to actually SEE a crim commit a crime to be able to witness them. Yes, in real life, cops get plate numbers, descriptions, et cetera from snitches, but this is not real life; it's a video game - one whose very premise is outrageous and unrealistic. This is APB, not American Truck Simulator.
  
  Seriously - imagine if a city in the real-life U.S. got as bad as San Paro. Even '80s Detroit, NYC, Dallas/Fort Worth, St. Louis, Baltimore, Chicago, L.A., etc pale in comparison. There wouldn't be city-government-sponsored vigilantes; the Federal Government would have been done stepped in and declared martial law. The military would have the city on lockdown. Even if San Paro was in a lesser developed country, there'd still be national military (and possibly UN/EU/AU/US/whatever peacekeepers). So realism ain't an argument in this case. No martial law means that the U.S. Constitution is still in effect in San Paro (you know, the one that legally bars cops from simply putting a cap in a dude stealing a bicycle or shoplifting a ham), but nonetheless crim-offense missions still involve enforcers shooting to kill, even if all the crim's doing is tagging a wall. But at least the dang cop sees the crim doing it, which is perfectly okay from a gameplay perspective - that's how missions work. A cop being able to tell a crim's been doing crimmy things and opening up offense on someone who simply drives by in a van regardless of threat/rank breaks game balance.
   
• Increase the number of laundries and, ideally, integrate laundries with contact HQs. Let's turn this whole 'realism' thing around for a bit: speaking as someone who's done a bit of time and is moderately familiar with the real-life 'criminal underworld' (side note: it's very much true that the clink's basically 'Crime University'), a district of a major city the size of San Paro has many, many places and ways to launder dirty cash - not just a single one the cops hang around chomping on Krispy Kremes waiting for someone to show up to with a duffel bag full of filthy Benjamins, Grants, and Jacksons (etc) - and the places where money can be laundered tend to be (but aren't always!) the same places gangbangers hang (shocker, I know). Ain't no reason crims shouldn't be able to run that cash through, say, that tattoo shop of Chiro's.
  
  And the thing is, laundries in real life are often places you'd least expect, too. Let's just say that the reason you see soooooo many little churches in "da 'hood" in North American cities is not because those of us in said 'hoods are so much more religious than the rest of the population.

As far as Enforcer money-making, I can't say I'm personally familiar with such (since I refuse to play as an Enforcer except for, funnily enough, escorting ramraiders) but don't them arrests y'all make during missions garner a fair bit of cash, more so than conventional kills? And given how often crims steal cars from civvies and abandon them, there's almost always metric tons of cars to recover on any busy instance, I'd figure.

[SelttikS 224]

27 minutes ago, SwagOfMumia said:

blah blah crim not fair treated wah

Thanks for your input, it shows as you stated that you know nothing about the other side and only want more free money.

[SwagOfMumia 6]

18 minutes ago, SelttikS said:

Thanks for your input, it shows as you stated that you know nothing about the other side and only want more free money.

The last time I checked, crims don't have the ability to hit one key, off an enforcer that's spent a buncha time building up a stash before said enforcer can even finish a thought, and already be halfway to the drop by the time they respawn.

 

 

That's yer 'free money'. If you ain't pursued a career in cable news punditry yet, go for it; you'd fit right in.

 

Edited July 7, 2018 by SwagOfMumia

[SelttikS 224]

Just now, SwagOfMumia said:

The last time I checked, crims don't have the ability to hit one key, off an enforcer that's spent a buncha time building up a stash before said enforcer can even finish a thought, and already be halfway to the drop by the time they respawn.

 

That's the very definition of 'free money'. If you ain't pursued a career in cable news punditry yet, go for it; you'd fit right in.

 

It costs a crim nothing, not bullets not nades, just time to get that money. That is the definition of FREE MONEY.

If by some luck a crim was stupid enough to get caught and then the enf actually kills them, thus spending money and time, they get the reward for that crims failure. NOT FREE

 

You can take your version of Free Money that only costs you a small fee to Fox news or some sh1t.

[CookiePuss 5382]

Ram raiding empty districts is literaly abusing a broken game mechanic. 

 

 

Its going to be hard to get sympathy for someone preventing you from doing so. 

[SwagOfMumia 6]

1 minute ago, SelttikS said:

It costs a crim nothing, not bullets not nades, just time to get that money. That is the definition of FREE MONEY.

If by some luck a crim was stupid enough to get caught and then the enf actually kills them, thus spending money and time, they get the reward for that crims failure. NOT FREE

 

You can take your version of Free Money that only costs you a small fee to Fox news or some sh1t.

"Just" time? Time is, indeed, a cost. It's the only unrecoverable cost, actually, so that makes it a pretty major one.

 

And if "failure" now consists of things like merely driving down a road in an urban area, or showing up to a singular point that's required of someone to complete a task... then I guess you need to phone up Merriam-Webster and tell them the news that words no longer have meaning.

 

[SelttikS 224]

1 minute ago, SwagOfMumia said:

"Just" time? Time is, indeed, a cost. It's the only unrecoverable cost, actually, so that makes it a pretty major one.

 

And if "failure" now consists of things like merely driving down a road in an urban area, or showing up to a singular point that's required of someone to complete a task... then I guess you need to phone up Merriam-Webster and tell them the news that words no longer have meaning.

 

 

So is this game free to play? Because you seem to be saying that since it costs you time to play it that it is not free to play.

You are playing a criminal that is going to a downtown area and bashing a vehicle into storefronts for hours and hours, so yes not being conscious of the fact that you are a wanted felon is a failure on your part.

Keep trying to spin this sh1t O'riley maybe it will be a good episode for you.

[Chinook 144]

I just recently did some ramming on an alt to unlock some achievements for that character, and had 0 problems whatsoever while doing it. I was in an open conflict district with 4 other crims and saw a total of one enforcer visiting the district within few hours.

 

 

It's just about the time and place. Ramraiding is easy way to make money... If you're not overly greedy and keep pushing your luck, nobody is really interested about you and it's just bad luck if you get witnessed.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Chinook

[SwagOfMumia 6]

4 minutes ago, SelttikS said:

So is this game free to play? Because you seem to be saying that since it costs you time to play it that it is not free to play.

You are playing a criminal that is going to a downtown area and bashing a vehicle into storefronts for hours and hours, so yes not being conscious of the fact that you are a wanted felon is a failure on your part.

Keep trying to spin this sh1t O'riley maybe it will be a good episode for you.

Free monetarily, yes. But nothing is "free" in terms of the time you spend doing it; that includes APB.

 

Once again, this is a video game with an unrealistic premise. Ramraiding in San Paro (unrealistic game) =/= ramraiding in San Francisco (real life). For the second time, if APB were realistic, San Paro would be under martial law. But it isn't, and a decent game has balance between factions.

Edited July 8, 2018 by SwagOfMumia

[SelttikS 224]

Just now, SwagOfMumia said:

Free monetarily, yes. But nothing is "free" in terms of the time you spend doing it; that includes APB.

 

Once again, this is a video game with an unrealistic premise. Ramraiding in San Paro (unrealistic game) =/= ramraiding in San Francisco (real life). For the second time, if APB were realistic, San Paro would be under martial law. But it isn't, and a decent game has balance between factions.

So what ever gave you the idea that it is not under martial law?

Bonus what do you think the enforcer has to balance out the crims having ramraiding?

[SwagOfMumia 6]

Just now, SelttikS said:

So what ever gave you the idea that it is not under martial law?

Bonus what do you think the enforcer has to balance out the crims having ramraiding?

Because, once again, words have meaning.

 

 

Ain't no State/Federal National Guard, Army, Navy, etc enforcing emergency military law in San Paro; Enforcers are city-backed pseudo-cop vigilantes. Therefore, no martial law.

 

I already mentioned what balances it out earlier, including with an invitation for a discussion on such; you simply failed to read it with an open mind and went for the "crims just want it easy" card.

[SelttikS 224]

7 minutes ago, SwagOfMumia said:

Because, once again, words have meaning.

 

Ain't no State/Federal National Guard, Army, Navy, etc enforcing emergency military law in San Paro; Enforcers are city-backed pseudo-cop vigilantes. Therefore, no martial law.

 

I already mentioned what balances it out earlier, including with an invitation for a discussion on such; you simply failed to read it with an open mind and went for the "crims just want it easy" card.

Because you want free money even easier than it is now. It is already a far far stronger mechanic than anything enforcer have. This isnt your SSD checks brah

[CookiePuss 5382]

How did this go from talk about exploiting broken game mechanics to a "depends on what your definition of IS is" talk?

[SelttikS 224]

1 minute ago, CookiePuss said:

How did this go from talk about exploiting broken game mechanics to a "depends on what your definition of IS is" talk?

Is isn't the definition of is, is is the definition of is... except when it is it.

[SwagOfMumia 6]

1 minute ago, SelttikS said:

Because you want free money even easier than it is now. It is already a far far stronger mechanic than anything enforcer have. This isnt your SSD checks brah

Bless your heart.

 

18 hours ago, Zolerox said:

 

3. Yes what that guy said, Let "running away" count as a "Keep the money" reward or make it Running gives you half the money or something.

 

This is a good idea, too, to add to the suggestions for fixing this particular mechanic. In that mission I mentioned earlier, I evaded two golds with Vegases in my Pioneer for like three minutes. That should count for something

[SelttikS 224]

Just now, SwagOfMumia said:

This is a good idea, too, to add to the suggestions for fixing this particular mechanic. In that mission I mentioned earlier, I evaded two golds with Vegases in my Pioneer for like three minutes. That should count for something

So you want an even easier way to take away the counter side of the ramraiding?

[killerskull 111]

A little besides the point but heres the thing. /d were not suppose to be empty and ram raiding was suppose to happen in full /d (under ideal circumstances). But that would only make mm worse cause 1/4 the /d is busy ram raiding. It just gets in the way of missioning. So, it just adds to things that dont really make much sense to have. 

[Sadira 292]

4 hours ago, SwagOfMumia said:

As far as Enforcer money-making, I can't say I'm personally familiar with such (since I refuse to play as an Enforcer except for, funnily enough, escorting ramraiders) but don't them arrests y'all make during missions garner a fair bit of cash, more so than conventional kills? And given how often crims steal cars from civvies and abandon them, there's almost always metric tons of cars to recover on any busy instance, I'd figure.

Less than lethal is REALLY hard to do, especially if you're not very good at the game. Arresting isn't the ideal way for enforcers to make money, since they'll probably waste their time attempting to arrest - and probably would have made more money just doing missions regularly in the time you waste attempting to do arrests.

 

Turning in cars is REALLY slow (even in a full district). This is coming from someone who has been doing it a lot. It's not easy to find actual cars marked as Stolen. (seriously, all I ever find are cars that other enforcers took) You have to keep consistently driving around the district and hope also that Stolen cars don't get blown up, or are not being currently used by anyone. Again, in the time you take trying to find cars, you can easily make more money from just doing missions normally.

 

This is why enforcers are at disadvantage compared to criminals - where they can just make money freely, and easily. No skill required. Enforcers have to actually try much harder if they want to use other means to make money.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Sadira

[Shimmer 49]

Get off the forums and go make me some money so I can steal it!

[JackHarper 4]

THE SAN PARO POLICE DEPARTMENT

Greetings xGodric

The San Paro Police Department takes your complaint very seriously.

However, that being said, we won't be acting on this complaint, unfortunately for you - we won't be changing anything aside from stepping up the ramraid patrols and running multiple groups.
We do thank you for your contributions to the SPPD, we appreciate your efforts in funding more vehicles and assets to use and we hope you and all crims continue to supply the city with more funds.

We hope you have a nice day,
Kind regards.
-Capt. Jack Harper (SPPD)

[illgot 379]

8 hours ago, SwagOfMumia said:

The last time I checked, crims don't have the ability to hit one key, off an enforcer that's spent a buncha time building up a stash before said enforcer can even finish a thought, and already be halfway to the drop by the time they respawn.

 

 

That's yer 'free money'. If you ain't pursued a career in cable news punditry yet, go for it; you'd fit right in.

 

I earned over 500k on my criminal in about less than 2 hours of farming on an empty district.  The whole time I was N5, just mugging and crashing windows.  I constantly kept an eye on district population and only quit because I reached my goal.

 

I buy everything with my criminal off the auction house and just mail it to my enforcer because enforcers have no way of earning a constant stream of money on demand like a criminal.

[Spy 152]

On 7/5/2018 at 10:22 PM, xGodric said:

i believe everyone agrees with me that enforcers being able to witness you without seeing you commiting a crime just cuz you have more than 2500 is ridiculous, how can they know if you got money on you what are they wizards?. i know there are other priorities but this should change it ruins the whole ram raiding experience and thats why people go to empty districts to ram raid.Another suggestion is about losing your money if you dont deliver it to the drop off like.. it doesnt make any sense.. you have money on you and if you dont deliver it to a place it dissapears magicaly? Make it so if the enforcers dont take your money in 4 minutes you win.

There is no equivalent ramraiding action for enforcers exept whittnessing the criminal who's actually doing the ramraiding. Both parties have a chance to get that ramraiding  money. If enforcers where unable to check how much money criminals have on them then the point of whittnessing would be completely useless, making criminals have an extra 'crim only' option to get money wich makes it unfair. The system as it is now works as intended and should not be changed.

[Zolerox 564]

31 minutes ago, Spy said:

There is no equivalent ramraiding action for enforcers exept whittnessing the criminal who's actually doing the ramraiding. Both parties have a chance to get that ramraiding  money. If enforcers where unable to check how much money criminals have on them then the point of whittnessing would be completely useless, making criminals have an extra 'crim only' option to get money wich makes it unfair. The system as it is now works as intended and should not be changed.

Just call it "Interview" Instead of "mugging" you just talk to the witnesses and instead of "ram raiding" windows you "Investigate" What's so hard about that? 

Edited July 8, 2018 by Zolerox

[wibsey 91]

3 hours ago, JackHarper said:

THE SAN PARO POLICE DEPARTMENT

Greetings xGodric

The San Paro Police Department takes your complaint very seriously.

However, that being said, we won't be acting on this complaint, unfortunately for you - we won't be changing anything aside from stepping up the ramraid patrols and running multiple groups.
We do thank you for your contributions to the SPPD, we appreciate your efforts in funding more vehicles and assets to use and we hope you and all crims continue to supply the city with more funds.

We hope you have a nice day,
Kind regards.
-Capt. Jack Harper (SPPD)

no time for roleplayers, we mad here...

 

 

 

[JackHarper 4]

2 hours ago, wibsey said:

no time for roleplayers, we mad here...

 

 

 

It's not role-playing if we're taking the crim's money and re-purposing it as department funds, helps train our new personnel.