Current State of Weapons in APB and "Nerf Meta".

[RespectThis 121]

Was suggested to make my post in another thread a topic so here it is. 

 

Its always amazing to me how people love the idea of nerfing things. Yes somethings do need to be nerfed but NOT to the degree that LO has gone about it. This is also what happens when you like to go with the "nerf meta". Its just nerf after nerf to try and "balance" things when in reality tweaking and balancing around the "holy trinity" (Ntec, Oca/Pmg, and Hvr) would have been a better solution. Here we are though many updates later with noodles for weapons and they feel awful now. After playing this game for 10 years now I personally think this game was in a much better state before LO took over. Do I like that Matt Scott and his team are being more proactive and communicating with the community? Yes. Do I agree with their way of balancing? Not at all. On the other hand RP was for sure spleshul and had almost no communication with the community. Even then at least the weapons felt good to use and they didn't have unneeded mechanics for "fun" reasons. The only thing I truly hated about RP was the major weapon changes they did before they sold the game.

 

Anyway as it is now it just seems like the game is more what weapon is the flavor of the month. Use it for that month then they do another "balance" update and makes another weapon the flavor of the month. At least before with the holy trinity before you could at least pick for 3 distinct weapons and then those that fall between them. That's just my opinion on the matter.

Edited November 15, 2020 by RespectThis

[R3ACT3M 489]

I feel like every gun needs an accuracy boost, like a general boost in accuracy. If you don't believe me set your UI to 1 in APB there is a known bug where the default (which is 0) does not show the player the correct accuracy of the gun which is fixed by setting the UI to 1.

This is probably why everyone at some point has felt like APB weapon's are RNG based.

[vsb 6171]

i've been told a few times that its "necessary to find a baseline meta before addressing outliers", seeing the results after a few balance patches im pretty sure i disagree

frankly im still not sure what the actual aim was but nerfing a majority of the meta (which was mostly fine and only required a few small scale tweaks imo) has resulted in creating a new, narrower, and less balanced meta which is going to require even further changes

 

and they've begun fixing the outliers anyway, which either implies that the new trash meta is somehow a good example of a "baseline meta" or that it wasn't necessary to bash a bunch of guns over the head in search of a "baseline meta" in the first place

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
typo

[Flaws 1033]

Weapon balance is the only thing RP was better at than LO (aside from their scummy episodes like the random ATAC buff and the Troublemaker era to make a quick buck off of the noobs). LO's balancing has been bad and I can confidently say that back when HVR QS and broken Yukon were still a thing the game was way more fun than the boring, meta-slave fest we've had since LO's very first shotgun changes until present. We had way more diversity than we do now even though their idea of balance is to have diversty - which they've repeatedly failed at, especially in the CQC category. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it - revert everything to pre-LO state aside from the Yukon firerate fix and maybe 1-2 other things and start slowly and gradually from there. And most importantly stop listening to people who are Gold 2 (and lower) on their main accounts in-game since this is how we got here.

 

CQC category example:

 

Pre-LO you could pick JG/CSG and OCA/PMG in CQC and they would all work fine.

 

Now we've had two mini-eras: JG/PMG and currently JG/OCA. From 4 we went down to 2 (arguably to 1 of the two for a lot of people).

 

Weapon balance is one of the main reasons for the game's population dropping over the past years, you know, right next to the bad engine upgrade betas. Boring meta where you absolutely need to pick the exact gun in the category to be able to compete against lil Timmy who has a towel covering his chair to soak up all his sweat from point and clicking with JG all day long (or just triggerbotting since thats still a thing, largely thanks to Battleye being next to useless).

 

16 minutes ago, R3ACT3M said:

I feel like every gun needs an accuracy boost, like a general boost in accuracy.

I have to agree here. I think that instead of nerfing anything, all guns should get an accuracy boost across the board as to reduce RNG which everyone hates universally. RNG in general is one of the biggest problems of the game mechanically and nerfing weapons by increasing their bloom is only making matters worse and the game more frustrating. Also jump shooting should see a bit more utility instead of it being removed as APB is supposed to be an arcadey, fun shooter and not Counter-Strike.

 

I legit had more fun being able to have HVR QS and HVR jumpshoot fights against other players (even cheaters) than dueling with JGs on corners for an entire mission.

[Hatsumiku 7]

whats the new meta? been out for 2 years :V

[R3ACT3M 489]

2 hours ago, Hatsumiku said:

whats the new meta? been out for 2 years :V

OCA and Joker Carbine...any weapon that can be played like this is just so boring to fight because you know the person you're fighting turned their brain off

[Hatsumiku 7]

1 minute ago, R3ACT3M said:

OCA and Joker Carbine...any weapon that can be played like this is just so boring to fight because you know the person you're fighting turned their brain off

its like several years ago all over again 

 

btw, is HVR still good?

[R3ACT3M 489]

2 hours ago, Hatsumiku said:

its like several years ago all over again 

 

btw, is HVR still good?

yea, that was good nerf

 

[Hatsumiku 7]

9 minutes ago, R3ACT3M said:

yea, that was good nerf

 

quickswitching is not meta anymore? :V

 

how about explosives?

Edited November 15, 2020 by Hatsumiku

[R3ACT3M 489]

3 hours ago, Hatsumiku said:

quickswitching is not meta anymore? :V

 

how about explosives?

explosives are obnoxious, and yea quick switching is non existent

Edited November 15, 2020 by R3ACT3M

[Todesklinge 143]

The real problem is, most of weapons are to much equal with each other.

 

Example:

N-Tec5

Star

N-Tec7

ISSRa

 

They are all Assault Rifles and just accuracy and damage is the difference.

N-Tec7 and the ISSRa are more Rifles without to be rifles.

They have just a slower firerate, like rifles, but with fullouto.

But there are rifles they are more like assault rifles, like the Oscar and Carbine.

 

Shotguns, SMG... i dont know why this weapons exist? Who need this... because its to much important how close the mission area is. Also you need to switch or camping to much.

Same for sniper rifles and explosives.

 

Assault rifles or rifles are to much versatile.

[R3ACT3M 489]

How do we get LO attention to this thread?

 

 

[RespectThis 121]

Just now, R3ACT3M said:

How do we get LO attention to this thread?

 

 

Probably the usual. Wait for someone to pop in at some point. 

[Hexerin 1140]

4 hours ago, R3ACT3M said:

I feel like every gun needs an accuracy boost, like a general boost in accuracy.

Yes, just yes. All guns should be exceptionally accurate if fired in single-tap or short bursts, but lose accuracy past the first few rounds in a sustained instance of firing. Specifically how accurate the baseline is, should have slight variance based on class (long range marksman rifles like the CR762 should be pixel-perfect on the first shot, while CQC spray'n'pray like OCA should be tightened to ~10% of what it is now).

 

"Effective range" should be determined by the existing stat of the same name, not how (in)accurate the gun is. Want the OCA to be only used indoors / back alleys? Have its damage start dropping off at 10m, with it hitting minimum damage at 20m (say, 25% base damage). Want the sniper rifles to no longer be used with quick switch? Give them all reverse falloff like the DMR, so they need 3+ shots until 70-80m and then ramp up to their 2-shot at like 80-90m.

 

Recoil should also be either removed, or made consistent across every weapon in a given class. Your ability to control your weapon's aim shouldn't be dictated by RNG recoil that is completely different from one gun to the next. Recoil gimmicks (like M-1922 and SWARM), while amusing for a mission or two, quickly become tiresome (and thus have no place in the game).

[vsb 6171]

13 minutes ago, R3ACT3M said:

How do we get LO attention to this thread?

they might read this but i doubt it will change much, they'd essentially have to dump months of balancing work just to get back to a decent starting point

[R3ACT3M 489]

50 minutes ago, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA said:

they might read this but i doubt it will change much, they'd essentially have to dump months of balancing work just to get back to a decent starting point

Im just waiting and praying for the day, when i/we can look back on how bad the game is now and laugh 

[Lign 361]

I totally disagree with that thread. Do you really want qs back? Do you really wanna that mess back with players playing hvr 24/7 in any situation and every your decision except switching to hvr yourself will fail against qs. And do you really want old hvr back with the current cargameplay meta?

if we are talking about balance it’s where I support LO except tiny issues. Ntec is where it should be now. Hvr is not go to choice anymore. We got carbine accuracy that ppl had been asking for years.

 

if you think there was more choice than now, you’re delusional. Many tryharders stick to oca/ntec/hvr meta. And if that balance was great why were there so many threads about qs, about oca being op, about ntec meta etc. 

 

yes, LO can revert everything back. It will be fun for the first time but then you will start getting annoyed by meta of pre-LO era. You’ll just be forced to use certain weapons if you want to beat someone in pre-LO balance. 

[RespectThis 121]

19 minutes ago, Lign said:

I totally disagree with that thread. Do you really want qs back? Do you really wanna that mess back with players playing hvr 24/7 in any situation and every your decision except switching to hvr yourself will fail against qs. And do you really want old hvr back with the current cargameplay meta?

if we are talking about balance it’s where I support LO except tiny issues. Ntec is where it should be now. Hvr is not go to choice anymore. We got carbine accuracy that ppl had been asking for years.

 

if you think there was more choice than now, you’re delusional. Many tryharders stick to oca/ntec/hvr meta. And if that balance was great why were there so many threads about qs, about oca being op, about ntec meta etc. 

 

yes, LO can revert everything back. It will be fun for the first time but then you will start getting annoyed by meta of pre-LO era. You’ll just be forced to use certain weapons if you want to beat someone in pre-LO balance. 

Yes I'd be fine with Qsing back while keeping the damage nerf (since I and many people have felt that was the only change it needed) on the HVR. People weren't HVRing 24/7 either. If you are finding that you need to switch to it yourself then you need to work on your approach to the situation. I myself strictly used the scout because I've always felt the hvr was cheesy and have never in my years of APB felt that I NEEDED to switch to the hvr to beat other hvr users.

 

There were many more choices and with way more variety back then as well. Not so much anymore as most people just go with the "flavor of the month". *cough* shotguns *cough* PMG *cough*.

 

Why were there so many threads about it? Because people who are more casual come to the forums to complain about something they can't understand/beat. Same thing with people making threads about the ntec being broken because they lost to one in cqc with an oca. Its a player skill issue. When you go against Qsing you should be learning and adapting to that playstyle. Which is why it shouldn't be anything more than a minor headache. As I said my only issue with the HVR was (since it got nerfed now) its damage. Yes Qsing is cheesy and dumb but i'd gladly have it back in the game if it meant getting all of the Pre-RP nerfed weapons.

Edited November 15, 2020 by RespectThis

[Flaws 1033]

1 hour ago, Lign said:

I totally disagree with that thread. Do you really want qs back? Do you really wanna that mess back with players playing hvr 24/7 in any situation and every your decision except switching to hvr yourself will fail against qs. And do you really want old hvr back with the current cargameplay meta?

if we are talking about balance it’s where I support LO except tiny issues. Ntec is where it should be now. Hvr is not go to choice anymore. We got carbine accuracy that ppl had been asking for years.

 

if you think there was more choice than now, you’re delusional. Many tryharders stick to oca/ntec/hvr meta. And if that balance was great why were there so many threads about qs, about oca being op, about ntec meta etc. 

 

yes, LO can revert everything back. It will be fun for the first time but then you will start getting annoyed by meta of pre-LO era. You’ll just be forced to use certain weapons if you want to beat someone in pre-LO balance. 

I don't remember having to switch to HVR due to someone QSing (unless I wanted to). And HVR at range still functions all the same so I still need to switch to it in super long range spots anyway so how is that any different? The car gameplay affects the HVR how exactly? It affects it the same way as it affects the OBIR, you sit in your car, you drive 80m away and get out to get an easy kill. That whole tactic in general is broken but thats a core part of the game's problems.

 

N-TEC was perfectly fine, it was the weapon that should've been the center of all other weapons to be balanced around but instead they busted it and now its a shadow of its former self. We had a fun mechanic in jump shooting (with other ARs as well) which is now gone so we're stuck on the ground like we're playing CS to get a little bit of accuracy. Fun gone. Also, using forum threads to back up your argument isn't really valid considering that its the forum threads by silvers that got the weapon balance to be as bad as it is today and you know this. Also, I don't remember anyone ever asking for a carbine buff at all? I feel like it was fine before but I don't necessarily disagree with the change.

 

There was more diversity in the CQC category for sure, thats undeniable. But you're also contradicting yourself by saying that tryhards stick to OCA/N-TEC/HVR (which is true) and that is certainly less diversity than before. Like I already said, back then we had at least 4 weapons to pick from in CQC - not the best diversity but better than now. Now we've cut it down to 1 or 2 (JG/OCA). For range we see less OBIR now due to the latest changes to it so its mostly HVR and maybe Obeya. For mid-range theres still the N-TEC, Carbine, OSCAR which have always been there. Instead of increasing diversity, they shrink it.

 

The problem with weapon balance in games is that something will always be the best, top choice for every situation so whatever they do, they won't be able to get it right. Huge gaming companies struggle to get it right for the entire lifetimes of their games, let alone LO with the amount of weapons RP added. If anything I think that some guns should be converted into reskins to ease balance a bit. The problem gets worse though, when you take the few good guns in the game and butcher those too and everything feels crap, unfun and the whole point of the game is gone out the window with it. You could say that people would stack HVR QS or N-TEC but that certainly took more skill than shotguns ever will. We complained because we had no idea just how much worse it could become. The population numbers speak for themselves, the more LO touched on the balancing, the more good players left. Each update was a hit to the population and now we're at an all time low again with basically no good players still playing the game anymore due to their frustration with weapon balancing and the engine upgrade being unplayable.

[Deadliest 385]

I would like if they could just revamp everything and get rid of the god dam awful RNG hitscan mechanic, have everything replace with projectile mechanics.  

 

Shut down the game and start all over again. thanks.

Edited November 15, 2020 by Deadliest

[Uhtdred 240]

Do Citadel players know that NA only have 1 silver district with only 25/25 a day???

 

I see a lot of them complaining about "low pop" but NA is 1000000000000 times worse.

 

 

All this crap started when NFAS was the best gun in the game, 80% of pop was using NFAS + kev 3 + car deto. Also happened in the past ( a long time ago) when trouble maker was the best gun in the game...

[Darkzero3802 611]

Simple idea, revert all weapon changes to back when RP was still around and dont change anything untill RNG hitreg is addressed. Then weapons can be properly balanced based off of good data and not data where one day hitreg is okish and another where you cant hit the broadside of a barn. Then lastly fix the cheating so data based off of blatant and closet cheats doesnt heavily influence anything.

[R3ACT3M 489]

On 11/16/2020 at 7:30 AM, Darkzero3802 said:

Simple idea, revert all weapon changes to back when RP was still around and dont change anything untill RNG hitreg is addressed. Then weapons can be properly balanced based off of good data and not data where one day hitreg is okish and another where you cant hit the broadside of a barn. Then lastly fix the cheating so data based off of blatant and closet cheats doesnt heavily influence anything.

well a few nerfs were needed, like the yukon for example

 

Merged.

 

On 11/15/2020 at 10:15 AM, Lign said:

yes, LO can revert everything back. It will be fun for the first time but then you will start getting annoyed by meta of pre-LO era. You’ll just be forced to use certain weapons if you want to beat someone in pre-LO balance. 

More like keep the nerfs or buffs that acted like fixes

[RespectThis 121]

8 hours ago, R3ACT3M said:

More like keep the nerfs or buffs that acted like fixes

The meta before the big nerfs RP did before they sold the game were the ones I want reverted. The other changes such as the troublemaker being nerfed were fine. But by no means was the meta bad. I never got tired of that meta considering I played with that meta for multiple years. It was fun and never got stale. Way better than it is now that's for sure. Hell I'd much prefer the old meta for the sheer fact that you could at least play 3 distinctively weapon types (sniper, assault rifle, or smg). Now its cqc for the most part. 

 

As I said in a previous post you weren't required/forced to switch to certain weapons. The only time I've ever been "forced" to switch to a weapon is doing missions like Fast and Incarcerated (the bank truck hold). Other than that I can use whatever I wanted and still preform well. Even against the holy trinity. NSSW being a great example of a gun that was really solid.

[R3ACT3M 489]

2 hours ago, RespectThis said:

The meta before the big nerfs RP did before they sold the game were the ones I want reverted. The other changes such as the troublemaker being nerfed were fine. But by no means was the meta bad. I never got tired of that meta considering I played with that meta for multiple years. It was fun and never got stale. Way better than it is now that's for sure. Hell I'd much prefer the old meta for the sheer fact that you could at least play 3 distinctively weapon types (sniper, assault rifle, or smg). Now its cqc for the most part. 

 

As I said in a previous post you weren't required/forced to switch to certain weapons. The only time I've ever been "forced" to switch to a weapon is doing missions like Fast and Incarcerated (the bank truck hold). Other than that I can use whatever I wanted and still preform well. Even against the holy trinity. NSSW being a great example of a gun that was really solid.

i mean, the ones I can think of are yukon and bullshark or the NHVR (the current nerf like the -50 damage)