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5 minutes ago, LilyRain said:

False, the idea behind the nerf was to make PIG+perc more difficult, which is not the case at all.

WHAT LOL, it is a fact that the pig perc thing is more difficult because it require you to hit the perc exactly at the enemy for it to work, SO how it is not the case at all when it is ?you are dumb as hell i am sorry.

8 minutes ago, LilyRain said:

Those numbers that you happen to NOT know are ALWAYS relevant when discussing weapon balancing, they define everything.

 

You have shown that are not aware of weapon-stats in numbers, as you have already stated that no lethal weapons kill faster than 0.6 seconds.. That is false and you were told it is false by more than just myself in this thread.

 

I kindly told you to go learn the numbers then come back to discuss things properly. Last chance to do so. If you continue this behavior rather than learn the numbers and actually contribute to the forums, then you are risking complete destruction of your credibility (which you know was crushed already and thus talking like this). You are also risking a timeout from the forums.

 

At the very beginning, you claimed to be "sane". Time to prove it.

"as you have already stated that no lethal weapons kill faster than 0.6 seconds" Why wont you quote me fully and add that i told that no lethal weapons kills faster than 0.6 seconds as consistently as the not longer working tactics with the nerfed pig, quote me fully next time and dont bring my posts out of contexts id*ot.

Edited by ReaperTheButcher
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Just now, ReaperTheButcher said:

WHAT LOL, it is a fact that the pig perc thing is more difficult because it require you to hit the perc exactly at the enemy for it to work, SO how it is not the case at all when it is ?you are dumb as hell i am sorry.

I am glad you posted this quote.

 

Do you find it difficult to land a Percussion Grenade...?

 

That is another problem with this change. Not only it fails to achieve the claimed-purpose... and not on top of that it failed by not compensating for the indirect-nerfs..

It was also centered around Silvers and Bronzes. Gold players throw grenades perfectly for much longer distances. Some can half-brick up to 100m. Some do it more than that, Kempington managed that on stream as well.

 

Golds would never mess up a Percussion Grenade within 9 meters, which is the field-of-play when using PIG+perc. Hell even Silvers won't, the current radius is still easy to land.

 

This change catered to low-tier players. Weapon Balancing should NEVER be centered on the sub-average level.

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Just now, ReaperTheButcher said:

WHAT LOL, it is a fact that the pig perc thing is more difficult because it require you to hit the perc exactly at the enemy for it to work, SO how it is not the case at all when it is ?you are dumb as hell i am sorry.

percs still have a max damage radius of 3m where they deal full stun damage, i find it highly doubtful that its suddenly "difficult" to hit someone under 10m when you have a 33% margin of error

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44 minutes ago, 404 said:

percs still have a max damage radius of 3m where they deal full stun damage, i find it highly doubtful that its suddenly "difficult" to hit someone under 10m when you have a 33% margin of error

it is a 30% chance to hit a person in this 3m of max damage radius if your throw at a player 10 meters away from you, and you talk like its a 6.66m radius and that 3.33m of the 10m you talked about is the 33% margain of error which is wrong,, take into consideration the player might be moving and not standing still. do your maths again because the 3m of the perc is only covering 30% of the 10m space and the other 7m is 70% chance to miss, haha you are not so smart are you ? ? oh and dont forget the effect of the CA 3 which will buy you enough time to not get stunned by the PIG because its only 675 stamina damage now.

Edited by ReaperTheButcher
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7 minutes ago, ReaperTheButcher said:

it is a 33% chance to hit a person in this 3m of max damage radius if your throw at a player 10 meters away from you, and you talk like its a 7m radius and that 3m of the 10m you talked about is the 33% margain of error which is wrong,, take into consideration the player might be moving and not standing still. do your maths again because the 3m of the perc is only 33% of the 10m and the other 6m is 66% chance to miss.

its not "33% chance to hit" or "66% chance to miss" a player unless you're just randomly selecting a distance to throw the perc, which i would assume any competent player is not doing

 

the aoe percs have means a player can move up to 3m from the time the perc is thrown at them to impact (or you can miss the perc by up to 3m), given that the engagement range is 9m that's a 33% margin for error as far as i can tell - my math could be wrong but the fact remains that its still incredibly easy to land that grenade 

 

on a side note, DMing me just to add an insult to your post in an attempt to bypass the forum rules is pretty low my dude

 

 

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15 minutes ago, 404 said:

its not "33% chance to hit" or "66% chance to miss" a player unless you're just randomly selecting a distance to throw the perc, which i would assume any competent player is not doing

 

the aoe percs have means a player can move up to 3m from the time the perc is thrown at them to impact (or you can miss the perc by up to 3m), given that the engagement range is 9m that's a 33% margin for error as far as i can tell - my math could be wrong but the fact remains that its still incredibly easy to land that grenade 

 

on a side note, DMing me just to add an insult to your post in an attempt to bypass the forum rules is pretty low my dude

 

 

Telling you are not the smartest person is an insult ? literally what i said in the DM: haha you are not so smart are you ? give me a break lol/ oh and that "insult" is still here, cut the drama.

Edited by ReaperTheButcher
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15 hours ago, lilpiggy said:

Stop trolling. Nobody here is arguing to keep PIG + Perc as it was.

 

Removing/reducing the stamina damage or reducing the stamina damage blast radius for the Percussion Grenades is a better solution. Since it doesn't completely alters/nerfs the whole LTL dynamic. Which is an unintended consequence of the current PIG nerf.

imagine having a shotgun battle with someone and you both run out of ammo (unlikely but yeah) and then you pull out your FBW and he pulls out his pig and you shoot 2-3 times and he 1 taps you with a pig. 

 

imagine running up on a guy using a dog-ear and you have an OCA smg and you get the drop on him and he turns around with his dogear and hipfires you 1 time then instantly 1 taps you with his pig.

 

imagine a guy just runs up on you and spams you with a perc and just 1 taps you with a pig.

 

imagine being hit by any gun 1-4 times and then being instantly 1 tapped by a pig.... you should get the point now.

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5 minutes ago, Motorola said:

imagine having a shotgun battle with someone and you both run out of ammo (unlikely but yeah) and then you pull out your FBW and he pulls out his pig and you shoot 2-3 times and he 1 taps you with a pig. 

 

imagine running up on a guy using a dog-ear and you have an OCA smg and you get the drop on him and he turns around with his dogear and hipfires you 1 time then instantly 1 taps you with his pig.

 

imagine a guy just runs up on you and spams you with a perc and just 1 taps you with a pig.

 

imagine being hit by any gun 1-4 times and then being instantly 1 tapped by a pig.... you should get the point now.

I see great content like this, i like as simple as that.

Edited by ReaperTheButcher
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9 minutes ago, Motorola said:

imagine having a shotgun battle with someone and you both run out of ammo (unlikely but yeah) and then you pull out your FBW and he pulls out his pig and you shoot 2-3 times and he 1 taps you with a pig. 

 

imagine a guy just runs up on you and spams you with a perc and just 1 taps you with a pig.

these are both still possible now, so was this really the best nerf option?

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27 minutes ago, Motorola said:

imagine having a shotgun battle with someone and you both run out of ammo (unlikely but yeah) and then you pull out your FBW and he pulls out his pig and you shoot 2-3 times and he 1 taps you with a pig.

Actually, the FBW gets to shoot twice before the PIG is equipped.. FBW wins this.

 

27 minutes ago, Motorola said:

imagine running up on a guy using a dog-ear and you have an OCA smg and you get the drop on him and he turns around with his dogear and hipfires you 1 time then instantly 1 taps you with his pig.

OCA with cj3 now kills in 0.6. You are 'OCA', you should know what you can do.

 

27 minutes ago, Motorola said:

imagine a guy just runs up on you and spams you with a perc and just 1 taps you with a pig.

That's exactly what needs to be fixed here, Percussion Grenades.

 

27 minutes ago, Motorola said:

imagine being hit by any gun 1-4 times and then being instantly 1 tapped by a pig.... you should get the point now.

Imagine failing that much and getting arrested. Up your game.

 

22 minutes ago, ReaperTheButcher said:

I see great content like this, i like as simple as that.

lol, when will you refrain from showing your lack of knowledge?

 

Edited by LilyRain

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5 hours ago, ReaperTheButcher said:

You might as well quote me fully as the part you quoted do not represent the full idea of what i said, i told that not a single primary weapon is as consistent to kill at 0.6 TTK as it was with the time to stun with the CSG/PIG tactic which is basically can be achieved as fast as you can switch from one another even more if you have a macro setup to execute it perfectly, the same goes for the JG/SNR, next time quote me fully to not butcher the main idea, just lame but what can i expect from a Newbie like you barely gold, as someone from the SPCT said, "we have players from the whole spectrum of skills",i guess you fall on the spectrum of the most un-experienced players there

Oh I'm on the spectrum all right.  

 

Shaw Nfas btw

 

 

P.S. calm down bro, it's just banter

 

 

 

Edited by CookiePuss

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3 hours ago, 404 said:

these are both still possible now, so was this really the best nerf option?

yeah i prob shouldve just said "imagine you both have shotguns and you both shoot once and while you are lining up a second shot he 1 taps you with a pig before you can react" my bad

 

and maybe i shouldve said "imagine being nicked by the tip of a perc splash then the guy just runs up and 1 taps you with a pig" 

 

thanks. now neither can happen, good.

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4 minutes ago, Motorola said:

yeah i prob shouldve just said "imagine you both have shotguns and you both shoot once and while you are lining up a second shot he 1 taps you with a pig before you can react" my bad

 

and maybe i shouldve said "imagine being nicked by the tip of a perc splash then the guy just runs up and 1 taps you with a pig" 

 

thanks. now neither can happen, good.

csg/pig still works just like pre nerf, and i think everyone can land a perc within 3m of someone in pig range

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As someone who maxed cop role in mission districts when threat was still something that fluctuated from round to round depending on your last X matches, fight club wasn't yet invented, and people were free to kick anyone from the team if they fancied doing so...

 

I laugh at you.

 

Put your money where your mouth is.

 

Which means, that instead of complaining how hard it is to arrest ppl, find someone who also wants to do arrests, team up with that person, and you're pretty much golden.

Edited by Chinook
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1 hour ago, Chinook said:

As someone who maxed cop role in mission districts when threat was still something that fluctuated from round to round depending on your last X matches, fight club wasn't yet invented, and people were free to kick anyone from the team if they fancied doing so...

 

I laugh at you.

 

Put your money where your mouth is.

 

Which means, that instead of complaining how hard it is to arrest ppl, find someone who also wants to do arrests, team up with that person, and you're pretty much golden.

Just avoid 1 versus 1s and gang on people, eh?

 

As if those who will now main the buffed-OCA won't gang on people either. Flawed logic

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On 9/17/2020 at 11:29 PM, RCooper said:

Pig and stun grenades are the only things that make ltl somewhat be able to compete with lethal weapons (...)

No, teamplay is. LTL is only effective when the whole team goes LTL and coordinates well. And it would be wrong if it were any stronger, since it is not available to criminals.

The PIG was an unintended exception to this, which has finally been fixed.

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2 hours ago, thelinux said:

No, teamplay is. LTL is only effective when the whole team goes LTL and coordinates well. And it would be wrong if it were any stronger, since it is not available to criminals.

The PIG was an unintended exception to this, which has finally been fixed.

The teamplay argument is as false as abusing corners. Anything would triumph with those, that's how APB is.

 

A coordinated team with lethal weapons would also wreck a coordinated team with LTL.

 

Criminals had and still have better options than the PIG, it was never overpowered nor needed a fix.

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33 minutes ago, LilyRain said:

The teamplay argument is as false as abusing corners. Anything would triumph with those, that's how APB is.

 

A coordinated team with lethal weapons would also wreck a coordinated team with LTL.

 

Criminals had and still have better options than the PIG, it was never overpowered nor needed a fix.

Criminals has the same options as the Enforcers lethal weapons, the PIG and the Stabba weapons are exclusively available to the enforcer faction so quit "debunking" everyone else and attacking actual facts people (inculdes SPCT) throw at you, just outrageous you are so stupid thats really incredible !!

 

"Criminals had and still have better options than the PIG" give an example for an option for a weapon that the criminals have that the enforcers don't have ?!

Edited by ReaperTheButcher
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1 hour ago, ReaperTheButcher said:

Criminals has the same options as the Enforcers lethal weapons, the PIG and the Stabba weapons are exclusively available to the enforcer faction so quit "debunking" everyone else and attacking actual facts people (inculdes SPCT) throw at you, just outrageous you are so stupid thats really incredible !!

 

"Criminals had and still have better options than the PIG" give an example for an option for a weapon that the criminals have that the enforcers don't have ?!

Precisely, which are superior to Less Than Lethals in EVERY way.

 

The nerf was uncalled for and nobody was able to justify it. The same can be said towards the OCA-buff and RSA-nerf. Nothing about this Weapon Balance patch was remotely proper.

 

Rather than spam the forums with "stupid" and "I am sane", perhaps do what SPCTs couldn't do and actually provide proper justification to the changes?

 

P.S: Your quote also shows that you English-comprehension is not good enough for a forum discussion. But in response to your question: Criminals do not need a weaker-option than what they currently have. The non-LTL arsenal already blows LTL out of the water.

Edited by LilyRain
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4 hours ago, LilyRain said:

Precisely, which are superior to Less Than Lethals in EVERY way.

 

The nerf was uncalled for and nobody was able to justify it. The same can be said towards the OCA-buff and RSA-nerf. Nothing about this Weapon Balance patch was remotely proper.

 

Rather than spam the forums with "stupid" and "I am sane", perhaps do what SPCTs couldn't do and actually provide proper justification to the changes?

 

P.S: Your quote also shows that you English-comprehension is not good enough for a forum discussion. But in response to your question: Criminals do not need a weaker-option than what they currently have. The non-LTL arsenal already blows LTL out of the water.

haha "couldn't do", Kempington is the most respectable SPCT out there and he couldn't provide justification to the changes ? you are out of your mind newb.
Oh and its not in your power or premission to tell me that i am not "good" enough for a forum discussion and your whining here about the PIG wont change anything, eat it up, after all this is a "community discussion", and anyways your argument has a dull end which wont change anything this nerf is here to STAY.

Oh and you didn't answer the question: "give an example for a weapon that the criminals have that the enforcers don't have" ?

as you previously said: "Criminals had and still have better options than the PIG", as if those "options" is not available to the enforcers, a fact that the LTL weapons is limited to the enforcers only is true. just bonkers how stupid, ignorant and narrow minded you can be, just give up save your time and nerves you are making a fool out of yourself for saying that the SPCT, the group of volunteers that suggest and test those changes, and are partially in control of those changes "cant" provide proper justifications to the changes they are in charge with ?, seems like you dont even read what i write because my point here is that you are a total idiot not more, now i will stop inflating this thread post number mind you.

Edit #1: I am jealous ? oww i can just take my euryale or any other half decent weapon and go full sweatmode if i want to, what is sure i wont be jealous of your sadness and whispering "Euryale noob !!".

Edited by ReaperTheButcher
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31 minutes ago, ReaperTheButcher said:

haha "couldn't do", Kempington is the most respectable SPCT out there and he couldn't provide justification to the changes ? you are out of your mind newb.
Oh and its not in your power or premission to tell me that i am not "good" enough for a forum discussion and your whining here about the PIG wont change anything, eat it up, after all this is a "community discussion", and anyways your argument has a dull end which wont change anything this nerf is here to STAY.

Oh and you didn't answer the question: "give an example for a weapon that the criminals have that the enforcers don't have" ?

as you previously said: "Criminals had and still have better options than the PIG", as if those "options" is not available to the enforcers, a fact that the LTL weapons is limited to the enforcers only is true. just bonkers how stupid, ignorant and narrow minded you can be, just give up save your time and nerves you are making a fool out of yourself for saying that the SPCT, the group of volunteers that suggest and test those changes, and are partially in control of those changes "cant" provide proper justifications to the changes they are in charge with ?, seems like you dont even read what i write because my point here is that you are a total idiot not more, now i will stop inflating this thread post number mind you.

That's exactly as to why you aren't capable of comprehending the situation nor remotely able to speak when it comes to weapon balancing. Criminals would only need to have their own weapons if and only if LTL is ever made overpowered, which is not the case. It is very clear that you are jealous of LTLs. Jealousy, anger and personal-feelings don't belong in Weapon Balancing, period.

 

It seems you were living under a rock... Gentle reminder that Kempington (which you have a crush on) is the man who was defending the Improved Rifling 3 changes a while back. Those changes were reverted simply because they were too much & poorly thought through... what do you have to say about that? Anyone who takes SPCTs as some sort of Bible should not be listened to.

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This is starting to turn into a flame war. Stay on topic and stick to the forum rules.

Non-contributory replies will be removed.

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Jesus Christ, this thread is a mess.

 

I think people seem to be missing the point of LTL and the risk/reward you get for playing it; arresting someone takes them out of the game for twice as long. The weapons might not be as good as lethal weapons but you get rewarded for using them.

Edited by owzzy
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wots that more fun removed from the game, enjoy chucking bricks the last bastion of fun, the waters great over here

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27 minutes ago, owzzy said:

Jesus Christ, this thread is a mess.

 

I think people seem to be missing the point of LTL and the risk/reward you get for playing it; arresting someone takes them out of the game for twice as long. The weapons might not be as good as lethal weapons but you get rewarded for using them.

It is okay for LTL to be weaker than lethal weapons & that should be case, since Criminals have no access to them (or else re-skins as stolen-police weapons or whatever might be a necessary inclusion).

 

The problem is that this is being used as an excuse to over-nerf LTL, which were already nerfed beyond existence by G1.

 

There is no "risk/reward" when going against the currently buffed OCA (0.67s to kill and potentially 0.6s with cj3) with a weapon that stuns in 1.05.. This isn't risk, this is throwing the match. The gap need not be this large by any measure.

 

The time needed for arrested-Criminals to respawn can and should be reduced as well. It is very doable.

Edited by LilyRain
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