What on earth did you do to the shotguns?

[CookiePuss 5378]

16 minutes ago, ReaperTheButcher said:

if you get a cheater with aimbot to play with JG/CSG he will always 2 shot you close range, it depends on WHO uses it and how accurate they are so shotguns are fine.

Its probably worth mentioning that shotguns are no more accurate  when using a cheat vs aiming well.

[Noob_Guardian 417]

14 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

 

I can verify that 3 to 5 days ago it happened to me.

It did not happen consistently though so I suspect server lag as well as player lag had something to do with it.

No real certainty why though.

Don't get me wrong, it can happen, it's just really rare to hit all shots perfectly at that distance.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Noob_Guardian

[ReaperTheButcher 177]

3 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Its probably worth mentioning that shotguns are no more accurate  when using a cheat vs aiming well.

Actually all the pellets hit the target hit-box no matter what range interestingly enough.

[Noob_Guardian 417]

6 hours ago, Lign said:

As long as oca will be reverted to pre-LO as shotguns, I'm up for it.

 

You basically read my mind. Shotguns are not only corner kings but also they scale much better when both high skill players meet each other in cqc fight in open area. Shotgun user just doesn't need to track his strafing enemy constantly, just wait until he strafes into your crosshair. 

OCA was never really nerfed. It was reverted to it's base stats, aside from having CJ3 effect it. OCA never needed its initial buff ttk buff, in fact it never should have gotten one to begin with. It was only buffed because they decided to buff and bork shotguns with reduced ttks.

 

The problem with balancing shotguns is they either are consistent and become cqc kings with corners and without corners, or you make them reliant on corners and cover without very much usability outside of corners. LO had suggested making them spend more time outside of corners to help counteract the issue, but never went that route.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Noob_Guardian

[Fortune Runner 796]

1 hour ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Don't get me wrong, it can happen, it's just really rare to hit all shots perfectly at that distance.

I'm not questioning you at all. I'm just adding my personal experience so people are a little more aware that it is happening to others as well.

[CookiePuss 5378]

1 hour ago, ReaperTheButcher said:

Actually all the pellets hit the target hit-box no matter what range interestingly enough.

Very interesting.

[ExoticZ 131]

13 hours ago, ReaperTheButcher said:

if you get a cheater with aimbot to play with JG/CSG he will always 2 shot you close range, it depends on WHO uses it and how accurate they are so shotguns are fine.

Okay... you dont balance weapons around what a "cheater" can/will do??

In other words, for a regular player the shotguns seem inconsistent. Afaik most people in-game have felt the same way and in different stream chats.

 

15 hours ago, Lign said:

As long as oca will be reverted to pre-LO as shotguns, I'm up for it.

I'd much rather have something in between "pre-LO" OCA and current OCA.

Edited May 29, 2020 by ExoticZ

[Lign 361]

 

12 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

OCA was never really nerfed. It was reverted to it's base stats, aside from having CJ3 effect it. OCA never needed its initial buff ttk buff, in fact it never should have gotten one to begin with. It was only buffed because they decided to buff and bork shotguns with reduced ttks.

 

The problem with balancing shotguns is they either are consistent and become cqc kings with corners and without corners, or you make them reliant on corners and cover without very much usability outside of corners. LO had suggested making them spend more time outside of corners to help counteract the issue, but never went that route.

Oca needs a ttk buff due to the current jg has too much fast ttk that makes it the strongest cqc at the moment. In fact shotguns should never have a faster ttk than smg. Before a patch 0.73 jg was killing faster than smg on average because none can track with 90% accuracy when the enemy does a circle strafing.

 

There’s another reason that none mentions why shotguns should be slower. It’s the problem that every shooter suffers from. Peeker advantage. In few words someone who picks from the corner will see an opponent faster than opponent will see him peeking from the corner due to latency. I think you experienced the situation when the enemy shoots you with a shotgun before even becoming visible. I had it many times

[Fortune Runner 796]

Like I've said before I'm all up for more testing so we can get some more data how to adjust guns for the better.

Have a daily setup for it to complete so many opposed missions and get a reward like how we used to have dailies and we might see a wider range of people help out on it more too.

[Noob_Guardian 417]

11 hours ago, Lign said:

 

Oca needs a ttk buff due to the current jg has too much fast ttk that makes it the strongest cqc at the moment. In fact shotguns should never have a faster ttk than smg. Before a patch 0.73 jg was killing faster than smg on average because none can track with 90% accuracy when the enemy does a circle strafing.

 

There’s another reason that none mentions why shotguns should be slower. It’s the problem that every shooter suffers from. Peeker advantage. In few words someone who picks from the corner will see an opponent faster than opponent will see him peeking from the corner due to latency. I think you experienced the situation when the enemy shoots you with a shotgun before even becoming visible. I had it many times

I mean, i agree with shotgun corner/cover peaking being an issue and that shotguns could use a higher ttk to compensate, however i'm still strongly against oca having a faster ttk. I can understand the desire to make shotguns have closer to a .8 ttk in general (and i feel it is a warranted suggestion.) However I also don't want shotguns to be completely decimated either.

 

In general i think aside from the NFAS, SHAW or a small handfull of "spray with very little accuracy" weapons like NFA, no weapon should have a ttk faster than .7 as a "base" ttk. So i cannot agree with OCA getting a ttk buff. I can however agree with making shotguns have a higher base ttk than SMGs due to cover advantage. I feel .7s is a good "base" ttk for weapons that function sub 30m. (and i'm eternally upset that G1 intentially screwed up the increased TTK testing weapon stats to make it so that noone would support increasing the game's ttk)

 

Yes, those situations happen a lot, however i don't  factor that "perfect invisible shot" into balancing the shotgun either.

23 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

I'm not questioning you at all. I'm just adding my personal experience so people are a little more aware that it is happening to others as well.

that's fine to do, it can and does happen. Albeit it's not common for it to happen at all.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Noob_Guardian

[Lign 361]

14 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

I mean, i agree with shotgun corner/cover peaking being an issue and that shotguns could use a higher ttk to compensate, however i'm still strongly against oca having a faster ttk. I can understand the desire to make shotguns have closer to a .8 ttk in general (and i feel it is a warranted suggestion.) However I also don't want shotguns to be completely decimated either.

 

In general i think aside from the NFAS, SHAW or a small handfull of "spray with very little accuracy" weapons like NFA, no weapon should have a ttk faster than .7 as a "base" ttk. So i cannot agree with OCA getting a ttk buff. I can however agree with making shotguns have a higher base ttk than SMGs due to cover advantage. I feel .7s is a good "base" ttk for weapons that function sub 30m. (and i'm eternally upset that G1 intentially screwed up the increased TTK testing weapon stats to make it so that noone would support increasing the game's ttk)

 

Yes, those situations happen a lot, however i don't  factor that "perfect invisible shot" into balancing the shotgun either.

that's fine to do, it can and does happen. Albeit it's not common for it to happen at all.

I want oca having faster ttk because jg is 0.65. As long as it will be nerfed back to 0.7+ I’m okay with current oca, but maybe increase its accuracy a bit. But yeah I agree with everything you said except not balancing shotties around peeker advantage. Cs and valorant have a lot of balance ideas to somehow diminish that problem.

Edited May 30, 2020 by Lign

[CookiePuss 5378]

17 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

I mean, i agree with shotgun corner/cover peaking being an issue and that shotguns could use a higher ttk to compensate, however i'm still strongly against oca having a faster ttk. I can understand the desire to make shotguns have closer to a .8 ttk in general (and i feel it is a warranted suggestion.) However I also don't want shotguns to be completely decimated either.

 

In general i think aside from the NFAS, SHAW or a small handfull of "spray with very little accuracy" weapons like NFA, no weapon should have a ttk faster than .7 as a "base" ttk. So i cannot agree with OCA getting a ttk buff. I can however agree with making shotguns have a higher base ttk than SMGs due to cover advantage. I feel .7s is a good "base" ttk for weapons that function sub 30m. (and i'm eternally upset that G1 intentially screwed up the increased TTK testing weapon stats to make it so that noone would support increasing the game's ttk)

 

Yes, those situations happen a lot, however i don't  factor that "perfect invisible shot" into balancing the shotgun either.

that's fine to do, it can and does happen. Albeit it's not common for it to happen at all.

The thing about shotguns and corners is there really isn't a way to win. Even if you made the shotgun ttk .8 as suggested, shotguns would still be able to 2 shot you in range before you can round the corner. This is a problem because when corner popping, you aren't exposed long enough for any gun in the game to kill you. We do have grenades for corners, but they are limited, and adding more would break other aspects of the game.  Part of me wonders if making shotguns require a minimum of 3 shots to kill (with the ttk's similar to what they are now) could help with this "corners and shotguns" problem since it would require greater exposure within its min ttk, making it possible for say an OCA to have a chance at fighting back.

note: since we are talking corners we are assuming the shotgun gets the first shot off since its the shotgunner waiting on the corner and the opposition not knowing they are there,

Edited May 30, 2020 by CookiePuss

[yourrandomnobody74 106]

On 5/28/2020 at 2:12 PM, Resine said:

Hitreg is not perfect, we had a history of shit servers and ghost shots, on top of that the game allows 300ms people to play the game so yes i do agree that SG are not reliable, but people do have a tendency to call their shots hits while they missed. 

 

/thread, basically.

tl;dr - go finance g1 some more so we can get higher tickrate servers, game is probably ok its just that the servers are atrocious.

[Noob_Guardian 417]

4 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

The thing about shotguns and corners is there really isn't a way to win. Even if you made the shotgun ttk .8 as suggested, shotguns would still be able to 2 shot you in range before you can round the corner. This is a problem because when corner popping, you aren't exposed long enough for any gun in the game to kill you. We do have grenades for corners, but they are limited, and adding more would break other aspects of the game.  Part of me wonders if making shotguns require a minimum of 3 shots to kill (with the ttk's similar to what they are now) could help with this "corners and shotguns" problem since it would require greater exposure within its min ttk, making it possible for say an OCA to have a chance at fighting back.

note: since we are talking corners we are assuming the shotgun gets the first shot off since its the shotgunner waiting on the corner and the opposition not knowing they are there,

That is also a suggestion I can agree with, and would feel shotguns wouldn't need a ttk increase if so. However reliability of shotguns is also an issue. We don't want LO rework Shredder and NFAS here, but we certainly don't want 2013 CSG either. Corner popping does make them feel horrible to face at times. As such any change should be done carefully.

 

If they STK is increased, depending on CSG or Jg I'd say a fairly reliable 4 hit at 5/8m would be fine with shotguns, while still being able to 3 hit pretty easily at and up to that range as well. Since it's clear that the JG and CS are somewhat around sub 10m fighters, then balance should be set for them to be fairly consistent "up to" x range. Shredder could use with a spread reduction, it feels nerfed in comparison to how it was, and it's extremely unreliable in range at this point. Strife feels "fine", it sadly doesn't feel near as reliable as it was, but i'm afraid touching it would only make it worse...

 

  In the end, you don't want it too consistent at 3 hits and feel like the shredder did, but you don't want it to be borked with how the feel currently almost like a dice roll.

 

Grenades work wonders against corners, however i can agree, we should be careful about what kinds of grenades are added, personally I don't think grenades really need changed at this point. Though I can see reducing conc HP damage, and increasing their hard damage a little bit, it's not something I really think necessary.

 

 I do think a new bouncy perc would be hilarious. It bounces once then blows up on contact

[PingOVER9000 189]

LO has kinda of failed with balancing weapons.... not totally but almost:

 

- Ntec change was right and limiting his high versality in CQC (jumpshotting) at the end right, respect other main assualt rifles I see more balancing between them, but there are several ones very bad already.

- Oca change shall be OK but PMG need a range nerf, differently than assault rifles the SMG weapons is a total mess

- Shotguns changes... LO started with the first change were buff to too Good or OP some of them ( ex DOW, Shreader,  showstopper etc ) after the last one update, where we see some of them lose also they bare competitivity,  Thunder and showstopper for ex... 

 

NOBODY ASKED FOR CHANGING SHOTGUN, it was the """solidest"" weapon compartment of the game(comparing with others..), if I was LO it was my last to need a rebalance.

 

I suggest to leave the rebalacing to a TEAM OF polite PLAYERS that play APB, know something about APB as players,  and like to play fairly APB for representing the players and act as an intermediary between players to LO, for ex. the SPCT team as we may see and from their words,They are close to USELESS, it's like having a RANGE ROVER that can make and go everywhere, and instead it used a disabled car, for making an analogy....

I mean in my weak opinion, Worth a try and doesnt cost nothing, there are a lot people of good will between players make self server events, Youtubers and in the SPCT team from where fishing someone.

 

About thread... Someone told to revert Shotgun about pre-LO (and I kinda agree with it for a restarting)...someone may remind me how CSG and Shreader perfom, I remind they were quite bad at that time...

 

Bye

[CookiePuss 5378]

20 minutes ago, PingOVER9000 said:

LO has kinda of failed with balancing weapons.... not totally but almost:

 

- Ntec change was right and limiting his high versality in CQC (jumpshotting) at the end right, respect other main assualt rifles I see more balancing between them, but there are several ones very bad already.

- Oca change shall be OK but PMG need a range nerf, differently than assault rifles the SMG weapons is a total mess

- Shotguns changes... LO started with the first change were buff to too Good or OP some of them ( ex DOW, Shreader,  showstopper etc ) after the last one update, where we see some of them lose also they bare competitivity,  Thunder and showstopper for ex... 

 

NOBODY ASKED FOR CHANGING SHOTGUN, it was the """solidest"" weapon compartment of the game(comparing with others..), if I was LO it was my last to need a rebalance.

 

I suggest to leave the rebalacing to a TEAM OF polite PLAYERS that play APB, know something about APB as players,  and like to play fairly APB for representing the players and act as an intermediary between players to LO, for ex. the SPCT team as we may see and from their words,They are close to USELESS, it's like having a RANGE ROVER that can make and go everywhere, and instead it used a disabled car, for making an analogy....

I mean in my weak opinion, Worth a try and doesnt cost nothing, there are a lot people of good will between players make self server events, Youtubers and in the SPCT team from where fishing someone.

 

About thread... Someone told to revert Shotgun about pre-LO (and I kinda agree with it for a restarting)...someone may remind me how CSG and Shreader perfom, I remind they were quite bad at that time...

 

Bye

Did you just call us disabled?

[PingOVER9000 189]

14 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Did you just call us disabled?

Absoluty no, if I have to compare in car terms I choose a range rover ( that I damn like it and I own), it a car I like because it's not excatly fast, but I can go with it almost anywhere and with some effort of good checking/ care difficulty disappoint me,  my apoligize for misunderstaning and for my bad english.

 

Merged.

 

15 hours ago, PingOVER9000 said:

About thread... Someone told to revert Shotgun about pre-LO (and I kinda agree with it for a restarting)...someone may remind me how CSG and Shreader perfom, I remind they were quite bad at that time...

Someone may answer about it, thanks :3

Edited May 30, 2020 by PingOVER9000

[_chain 176]

No inconsistencies and rarely any trouble on my part. Most of the times it's 2 shots on my JG. On the CSG 2-3 shots, depending on the distance. The only problem i've ever had with them has been my aim. You're either set on target or you die, it's always been like that. 

[Resine 144]

SG-21 'Strife' is a perfect example how shotguns should be balanced in the game.

Scary burst damage, enormous corner camp potential, low sustained damage, vulnerable in the open.

Not your CSG or JG with scary burst damage, pin point accuracy, same or even lower TTK than it's counters, high sustained damage.

 

I see the same thing over and over again, SG were changed like what 5 times already? The only thing that does get addressed is the range and damage - not TTK that should never be as low as it is now. Oh wait, JG got buffed TTK at some point didn't it? Brilliant fucking move.

[ReaperTheButcher 177]

On 5/30/2020 at 10:57 PM, PingOVER9000 said:

LO has kinda of failed with balancing weapons.... not totally but almost:

 

- Ntec change was right and limiting his high versality in CQC (jumpshotting) at the end right, respect other main assualt rifles I see more balancing between them, but there are several ones very bad already.

- Oca change shall be OK but PMG need a range nerf, differently than assault rifles the SMG weapons is a total mess

- Shotguns changes... LO started with the first change were buff to too Good or OP some of them ( ex DOW, Shreader,  showstopper etc ) after the last one update, where we see some of them lose also they bare competitivity,  Thunder and showstopper for ex... 

 

NOBODY ASKED FOR CHANGING SHOTGUN, it was the """solidest"" weapon compartment of the game(comparing with others..), if I was LO it was my last to need a rebalance.

 

I suggest to leave the rebalacing to a TEAM OF polite PLAYERS that play APB, know something about APB as players,  and like to play fairly APB for representing the players and act as an intermediary between players to LO, for ex. the SPCT team as we may see and from their words,They are close to USELESS, it's like having a RANGE ROVER that can make and go everywhere, and instead it used a disabled car, for making an analogy....

I mean in my weak opinion, Worth a try and doesnt cost nothing, there are a lot people of good will between players make self server events, Youtubers and in the SPCT team from where fishing someone.

 

About thread... Someone told to revert Shotgun about pre-LO (and I kinda agree with it for a restarting)...someone may remind me how CSG and Shreader perfom, I remind they were quite bad at that time...

 

Bye

I agree on the part of the SPCT team

[CookiePuss 5378]

34 minutes ago, ReaperTheButcher said:

I agree on the part of the SPCT team

You guys are mean.

 

[Noob_Guardian 417]

6 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

You guys are mean.

 

We know you try your best at whatever you do. Even if it gets ignored.