Patch Notes 1.20.0 (1167)

[vsb 6170]

15 minutes ago, crusade said:

Yeah you're right actually. Delete HMS tbh. 15 FoV anything has no place in this game.

i more meant that specific guns (aside from legendaries) shouldnt really have unique mechanics like that

 

also dont really want to delete hms but i have no idea how to actually balance it so that its useful

[SkittyM 287]

8 hours ago, Solamente said:

i more meant that specific guns (aside from legendaries) shouldnt really have unique mechanics like that

 

also dont really want to delete hms but i have no idea how to actually balance it so that its useful

Probably reel back the zoom level a bit, maybe 5 degrees, and probably add a laser of sorts to it so you know when you're clipping a corner or not, idk.

[Lord Cashpoint 269]

15 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

There's a number of weapons in the rifleman role. Most of which won't or can't be used because using them severely gimps you against an ntec. They are fine to use against most other AR's, just not that one which most people use because its too versatile.

 

There's no doubt that the N-tec is the strongest non legendary assault rifle - but this is less of a statement of its power, and more one of the rest of the class' weaknesses. The N-tec is currently the only assault rifle which can compete against both the very capable weapons which border its ranges - such as the OCA and the Obeya CR 762. The N-tec, unlike a lot of other weapons in this game actually works - despite the weapon curve changes, it responds well to user handling and scales well with skill level. So many weapons in this game (especially Assault Rifles) are either one trick ponies or require high effort for little pay off.

 

It's not the case that the N-tec will never need looking at (The jumpshooting accuracy nerf is well overdue), but I would have preferred that the most egregious weapon balance issues in the game be at least implemented in the live version first before deciding what a gun as crucial as the N-tec for game balance needed. 100% do the other assault rifles need to be brought in line with the N-tec to make the rifleman class more varied - but the answer does not lie in making them all mediocre.

 

This looks like another case of just piling on loads of different nerfs at once instead of just settling on one and seeing how it went. I'd be almost tempted to say Test District B's changes are intentionally so half-baked to make the alternative Test A look better.

 

Edited September 23, 2019 by Lord Cashpoint

[Hexerin 1140]

11 hours ago, crusade said:

Delete HMS tbh. 15 FoV anything has no place in this game.

Yea, no. I use HMS all the time when sniping, it's incredibly useful in many locations (and especially in Waterfront, in those rare times I'm forced out there).

[vsb 6170]

16 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Yea, no. I use HMS all the time when sniping, it's incredibly useful in many locations (and especially in Waterfront, in those rare times I'm forced out there).

i guess it’s nice that there’s at least one person who uses it but objectively it’s just hs3 with more downsides 

[Hexerin 1140]

11 minutes ago, Solamente said:

i guess it’s nice that there’s at least one person who uses it but objectively it’s just hs3 with more downsides 

Don't underestimate the strength of higher zoom. When used on a sniper rifle, the downsides are basically irrelevant as well.

[CookiePuss 5373]

28 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Don't underestimate the strength of higher zoom. When used on a sniper rifle, the downsides are basically irrelevant as well.

Not worth the loss of situational awareness for what is already a pixel perfect point and click weapon. For me and everyone else at least. 

[Noob_Guardian 417]

2 hours ago, Lord Cashpoint said:

 

There's no doubt that the N-tec is the strongest non legendary assault rifle - but this is less of a statement of its power, and more one of the rest of the class' weaknesses. The N-tec is currently the only assault rifle which can compete against both the very capable weapons which border its ranges - such as the OCA and the Obeya CR 762. The N-tec, unlike a lot of other weapons in this game actually works - despite the weapon curve changes, it responds well to user handling and scales well with skill level. So many weapons in this game (especially Assault Rifles) are either one trick ponies or require high effort for little pay off.

 

It's not the case that the N-tec will never need looking at (The jumpshooting accuracy nerf is well overdue), but I would have preferred that the most egregious weapon balance issues in the game be at least implemented in the live version first before deciding what a gun as crucial as the N-tec for game balance needed. 100% do the other assault rifles need to be brought in line with the N-tec to make the rifleman class more varied - but the answer does not lie in making them all mediocre.

 

This looks like another case of just piling on loads of different nerfs at once instead of just settling on one and seeing how it went. I'd be almost tempted to say Test District B's changes are intentionally so half-baked to make the alternative Test A look better.

 

The reason it can easily compete against the oca per say, is it's ttk and spray, and obeya, because of its bloom recovery speed. Both of which have been adjusted in test B. Now, I agree that the TTK nerf is a bit too rough, it should be leveled to .75 imo, however they obviously have thought of fixing it's competition against its border range weapons. Ironically, doing so also fixes the issues most other AR's have while facing the ntec.

 

There's only a few one trick ponies in the AR class, (Misery, aces rifle) and the only real F2P "competitor" aside from FAR (from the event) is the STAR, which is supposed to be the "jack of trades" but ends up falling short even of that title because the ntec does its "jack of trades" better.

 

The other issue is balancing like 8 weapons instead of fixing one, is a statistical nightmare. You not only have to adjust each according to the niche you want them in, but ensure such changes do not make them too powerful for the niche and also push it into another niche as well that you don't want it in. Also reworking the feel of each weapon changes the entire class outright instantly and causes everyone to readjust to sweeping new changes. Which aren't needed if you fix one weapon, hence why it makes no sense to rework 8 weapons instead of 1. Plus if the gunplay still needs adjusted and weaker assault rifles still need adjusted after the changes and the meta settled etc, then such changes can STILL come at a later date, but not nearly as sweeping as you can better see what needs changed.

 

Remember, we did get a star buff, misery buff, aces? buff, and i think an ISSRA buff, but they are still "outclassed" because they were never made to be capable of competing against the ntec. They didn't want anything to be as strong as it.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Noob_Guardian

[GhosT 1301]

 

2 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Don't underestimate the strength of higher zoom. When used on a sniper rifle, the downsides are basically irrelevant as well.

 

One of the downsides is making that gun absolutely useless for like anything under 80 meters, I'd call that more than relevant.

[Hexerin 1140]

27 minutes ago, GhosT said:

One of the downsides is making that gun absolutely useless for like anything under 80 meters, I'd call that more than relevant.

I regularly use it for anything 50m+ with no issues. You know, sniper ranges.

[GhosT 1301]

4 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

I regularly use it for anything 50m+ with no issues. You know, sniper ranges.

 

I love tunnel vision!

[Hexerin 1140]

7 minutes ago, GhosT said:

I love tunnel vision!

So what you're telling me is that you sit in continuous marksman mode while shooting at range, instead of only entering it when going for a kill. Gotcha.

[GhosT 1301]

1 minute ago, Hexerin said:

So what you're telling me is that you sit in continuous marksman mode while shooting at range, instead of only entering it when going for a kill. Gotcha.

 

Nah, but while aiming at or shooting at somebody, someone else could walk into your line of sight that could kill you, your team, or do the objective. You're gonna miss all of that if you use HMS over HS3. 

[Hexerin 1140]

3 minutes ago, GhosT said:

Nah, but while aiming at or shooting at somebody, someone else could walk into your line of sight that could kill you, your team, or do the objective. You're gonna miss all of that if you use HMS over HS3. 

If someone is walking up to you while you're taking shots at someone, you're dead regardless barring a fluke. Irrelevant.

If someone is walking up to your team or the objective, that's on your team to take care of. Your purpose as a sniper is to zone control, not carry.

 

Also, again, none of this is an issue if you're not sitting in continuous marksmanship mode.

[GhosT 1301]

2 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

If someone is walking up to you while you're taking shots at someone, you're dead regardless barring a fluke. Irrelevant.

If someone is walking up to your team or the objective, that's on your team to take care of. Your purpose as a sniper is to zone control, not carry.

 

Also, again, none of this is an issue if you're not sitting in continuous marksmanship mode.

 

What a teamplayer you are.

As a sniper it's exactly your job to cover your teammates and the objective.

[Hexerin 1140]

10 minutes ago, GhosT said:

As a sniper it's exactly your job to cover your teammates and the objective.

12 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Your purpose as a sniper is to zone control

Reading is hard?

[GhosT 1301]

3 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Reading is hard?

16 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

If someone is walking up to your team or the objective, that's on your team to take care of.

 

I don't know, you tell me.

[Hexerin 1140]

Just now, GhosT said:

I don't know, you tell me.

If you don't even comprehend what zone control is, it's pointless to continue this line of discussion further.

[GhosT 1301]

4 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

If you don't even comprehend what zone control is, it's pointless to continue this line of discussion further.

 

Zone control includes defending your team and objectives.

Otherwise you wouldn't be controlling the zone.

[vsb 6170]

7 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Don't underestimate the strength of higher zoom. When used on a sniper rifle, the downsides are basically irrelevant as well.

the "strength" of higher zoom is irrelevant in a game with 100m draw distance and crosshairs that tell you exactly when you're aiming at an enemy, unless you have a medical condition or something that prevents you from seeing well

 

as for downsides, the clunky hms crosshair itself is present every time you ads, the tunnel vision caused by even an instant of use can allow enemies to more easily get the drop on you or your teammates, and the removal of the hipfire crosshair is unnecessary at best

 

 

4 hours ago, Hexerin said:

I regularly use it for anything 50m+ with no issues. You know, sniper ranges.

not really sure what your point is anymore since having issues using your gun within about 60% of it's range contradicts the downsides being irrelevant

 

 

4 hours ago, Hexerin said:

If someone is walking up to you while you're taking shots at someone, you're dead regardless barring a fluke. Irrelevant.

maybe if you have the reflexes of a dead coyote

 

 

4 hours ago, Hexerin said:

If someone is walking up to your team or the objective, that's on your team to take care of. Your purpose as a sniper is to zone control, not carry.

maybe if you want to be dead weight

 

the only sniper truly capable of zone control is the hvr (and to a far smaller extent an 88m dmr) because of its insane damage output

[Hexerin 1140]

4 hours ago, GhosT said:

Zone control includes defending your team and objectives. Otherwise you wouldn't be controlling the zone.

Incorrect. Zone control is an act of making any given area ("zone") no longer attractive for an opposing entity or force to enter. This can range from a full 360 degree horizontal plane being covered from a rooftop with a sniper rifle, to something as simple as a hallway that you're holding from one side with a light machine gun.

 

Zone control is one part of the overall whole of a mission strategy. Defending your team as a support is another. Defending the objective is yet another. You do not just slap these things together and consider them the same thing, that's a surefire way to create weak strategy.

[crusade 89]

7 hours ago, Hexerin said:

If someone is walking up to you while you're taking shots at someone, you're dead regardless barring a fluke. Irrelevant.

If someone is walking up to your team or the objective, that's on your team to take care of. Your purpose as a sniper is to zone control, not carry.

 

Also, again, none of this is an issue if you're not sitting in continuous marksmanship mode.

You've never held an angle with the HVR before? People will jiggle peak you when they are on a corner, and you need to be zoomed in to be able to take reaction shots. In this scenario, 15 FoV is pretty detrimental to your peripheral vision and awareness compared to 30 FoV.

 

What do you honestly need 15 FoV with a max range of 99 meters for anyway? You trying to see the dude's nose hairs?

14 hours ago, SkittyM said:

Probably reel back the zoom level a bit, maybe 5 degrees, and probably add a laser of sorts to it so you know when you're clipping a corner or not, idk.

Since we're on the subject. It should probably be -10 or -15 degrees instead of setting to a specific degree, and should provide a tad extra marksman accuracy over HS3 (-0.2 on modifier vs HS3 -0.15). I think that would make it pretty competitive.

Edited September 24, 2019 by crusade

[Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 269]

2 hours ago, crusade said:

and should provide a tad extra marksman accuracy over HS3 (-0.2 on modifier vs HS3 -0.15)

Don't you dare steal my idea

[crusade 89]

47 minutes ago, Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 said:

Don't you dare steal my idea

I mean it's pretty much the only thing you can do to buff the mod. lol

[safdfsgkjhdgsjkhs 140]

19 hours ago, Lord Cashpoint said:

 

There's no doubt that the N-tec is the strongest non legendary assault rifle - but this is less of a statement of its power, and more one of the rest of the class' weaknesses. The N-tec is currently the only assault rifle which can compete against both the very capable weapons which border its ranges - such as the OCA and the Obeya CR 762. The N-tec, unlike a lot of other weapons in this game actually works - despite the weapon curve changes, it responds well to user handling and scales well with skill level. So many weapons in this game (especially Assault Rifles) are either one trick ponies or require high effort for little pay off.

 

It's not the case that the N-tec will never need looking at (The jumpshooting accuracy nerf is well overdue), but I would have preferred that the most egregious weapon balance issues in the game be at least implemented in the live version first before deciding what a gun as crucial as the N-tec for game balance needed. 100% do the other assault rifles need to be brought in line with the N-tec to make the rifleman class more varied - but the answer does not lie in making them all mediocre.

 

This looks like another case of just piling on loads of different nerfs at once instead of just settling on one and seeing how it went. I'd be almost tempted to say Test District B's changes are intentionally so half-baked to make the alternative Test A look better.

 

agreed, look at the pointman role for example. it seems like every pointman weapon is good to use with NFAS being imbalanced and to some the OCA also. Those two are being nerfed and good it will actually even everything out.

 

with rifleman role all of the other assault rifles are lackluster and no reason to even use them cause it seems like they are outclassed by pointman smg's or marksman rifles. The only good assault rifles are ursus and ntec-5.

 

why use HAWK/Vulture when whisper or oscar is better for that range. why use far charger when it just sucks? whats left? star? frenzy (which is nice i admit)...the artemis (why use this when you can just use a better version of it... the dog ear?