RespectThis

The game really doesn't need to be balanced around everyone. In doing so will only lead to awful balancing (like the current state of the game). Balancing around the higher end players is a better approach as these are the players who are investing the most time into the game. They have the hours, knowledge, and dedication to give constructive feedback on weapon balancing. Not silver sniper Jimmy who logs 30mins every other day teetering between bronze and silver. Not talking about Jimmy above me. They just happen to be named Jimmy . In regards to APB being a competitive game it very much is as is the nature of any PvP game. The game was in a better state years ago when the meta was defined by all players as the Ntec, Oca/Pmg, and Hvr (the Holy Trinity). Top tier players just re-enforced the meta due to their proficiency with them. In having this defined meta it allowed new players to see these meta defined weapons and decide if they wanted to play with them (all of which are f2p weapons) or go with something in-between like the Obeya (another gun that shouldn't be getting nerfed....). Finally you claim weapons that are aimed to be noob friendly won't be able to compete with the decided meta. Considering the Star is actually a solid weapon (jack of all trades master of none) that could very much compete with the once Holy Trinity weapons. I'm really not sure where you're getting this idea from. Honestly can't say I've seen many if any SPCT member excel or be "the best". Only one member comes to mind immediately. Maybe the SPCT have a good personality but that would be all I could really say about them. Even then most of the ones who talk about ideas for the game tend to have questionable ideas.

Glad you're still voicing how you (and I) feel about the current weapon balancing/gunplay and how far it has fallen. Can't say I'm surprised no one will give an opposing opinion to your statement either as I'd like to see the other sides opinion. I do hope that LO will go with rolling back all these nerfs and gimmicky mechanics to what it use to be but, I'm not holding my breathe.

Yeah at this point you're more than likely to go against the same people due to the pop being awful. I still don't think that's a good excuse to quit the game. The big issue is people who get to gold and intentionally dethreat to go back to bronze districts to vs easier op. That is an issue because they are the ones who are actually going after these new players. Because they don't want to vs people in the silver/gold district. They would rather feel some sense of "pride" in beating up these trainee/bronze players. Not saying its going to bring players back. Not sure where you pulled that from. What I said was you can learn from going against better players than you. To be honest I don't think APB needs new/outstanding content to stay relevant. The gameplay itself is what makes APB fun. What APB really needs is proper weapon balancing, anti-cheat, and stable servers. Trust me gold players don't really enjoy farming new players. We'd rather go against op around our own level. Who would have thought APB won't ever be CS:GO... go figure.

Even when players stomp you there is still plenty to learn. Usually the people who are doing the stomping have more to learn from than the people who are a little above you skill level. Since those barely above your skill level are more or less playing on the same level as you. Also the better players play in silver because no one goes to gold district as there is/was no incentive to. Along with how the pop has been for the past few years its impossible to play in gold districts with constant op.

Because there is almost always going to be someone/people better than you. Plus despite what people say APB is very much a competitive PvP game so people getting stomped shouldn't be a turn off. Ya sure losing isn't fun but its part of the PvP experience sometimes. You aren't wrong about what I'm going to say. It does help you become a better player. At the same time though its up to the player to pick up on these things and apply them. Weapon use, good spots to hold, and protecting items that drop off your opposition when you kill them while they're moving to a drop off as examples. Even in PvE games like Monster Hunter people fighting Fatalis will get their butt kick multiple times. Its not a reason to quit. You pick up on openings, when to dodge, and what weapon works best for you. Its all learning from experience.

Despite that being an awful reason to quit. Thats going to happen regardless with the removal of the threat system anyway.

I'm not saying "they might nerf more things" is good enough to prevent weapon balancing. I'm saying that the game is only hurt by constant nerfing. NO ONE likes nerf meta. It feels like trash. Again the Holy Trinity meta was when this game was in its best state. You had your core weapons (which are all free to play). While the other guns still felt good, useable, and could compete like the Obeya, Obir, and DMR for example. If said weapons start to become out of control then you can adjust (not nerf into the floor) accordingly. I also never thought the Ntec was ever an issue and the only nerf it needed was the heavy barrel one as it allowed for increased accuracy with no downsides. I did state the HVR does high damage regardless of the range. Again your issues with the HVR keep coming back to map related things and you can't balance it around that. I've done it thousands of times. I can think of all of the annoying spots in waterfront where people love to snipe from. They are indeed annoying but they are by no means impossible to take. Blocking the entrance/objective does help you as it provides cover from said snipers. You need to re-evaluate your approach if you're having to rely on Volcano and nades to try and push these players. While waterfront has annoying spots they almost always have ways of playing around them. Thank you.

This is the problem though. It will just cause the go down the line nerfing route. HVR isn't worth using we'll switch to the DMR. Well that sniper is to "OP" now lets nerf that and move to the Scout. Now that's broken...etc. Not to mention the DMR shouldn't be touched as its been the same it has for years with no issue. I don't think high damage single shot weapons are an issue. If snipers and shotguns didn't deal large sums of damage they'd be worthless. They do have their downsides. HVR is strong at long range and CAN be good in cqc. But its not better than a shotgun or a smg in that range. Just like the Ntec is good in cqc but it doesn't outclass an smg. While the HVR does deal high amounts of damage even at close range you can still bait out shots from opposition by faking rounding a corner. Most weapons can be good at multiple ranges but their effectiveness will greatly vary. Block the entrance with a car, throw nades to for them to move, use a dmr at an extreme range, etc. There are plenty of ways to counter out these "op spots".

Honestly I do think you're over exaggerating how OP it is in Waterfront. Ya its a very open map. But other weapons still very much hold their own against the HVR in this map. Again its more of a map thing than a weapon thing. I edited my post to flank which is what I meant but you quoted me before I fixed it. Anyway, In regards to Flak Jacket, a lot of people do actually use it. I myself use it all the time when it comes to explosives. Even outside of that. Med spray its pretty strong and flak does help a lot against people who pre nade. In regards to having less nades I don't really find it a problem. If you're finding yourself struggling to push with less nades you just need to use flak more often to get a feel for it. Ya its a bit odd at first but you adapt to it pretty quick. I mean ya. I don't have a problem with that. We wouldn't be having this discussion if we didn't . Yes I do think the scout should be changed back. This is where my biggest problem with your ideology lies. You want to nerf the HVR so much that the DMR becomes the next one. Then you want to nerf that. That is just killing the game because you are just killing one gun after another. That doesn't actually do anything positive or healthy for the game. There will always been a meta weapon. Which is why when the Holy Trinity was a thing the game was at its best. Because there were always 3/4 (since oca/pmg) weapons you could always use without problem. Then all the other ones were still good but not the meta. I do feel like it clouds your judgement a bit in regards to balancing. In regards to you being upset about the hvr. Im not rating it off 1v2 either. I'm stating that it has 2 kills in the mag. Which is a factor in what makes guns good. Its what makes the FBW strong is because it has 15 in the mag and allows for 2 kills per mag. As for the Aces Rifle its not that strong at range. At 35-40m its ok if you tap fire it. But it is classified as an assault rifle. Its how I finished my last 200 kills for my Rifleman 16 role. I'm not saying its needs a buff either. It sure doesn't need a nerf though. It loses to the base smgs and is outclassed by assault rifles. Its very far from being in need of any changes.

If green Gary is causing an issue then its really a player skill issue. There are no weapons in the game that carry you if you suck. A GOOD player can beat these bad players using these "no skill carry guns" that you've listed. Silver players with ATACs? beaten time and time again by myself and mates I play with. OPGL? Slap on Flak Jacket problem solved. Ok so because a high caliber rifle hits harder in one shot than the star means its broken? Let alone they're both NEW players they aren't going to understand the tactics or ways to counter it. Players like yourself should have the experience to know how to play around HVRs. You shouldn't use new players as an example. You solutions for rebalancing have no relevance to the HVR except for the last one. Waterfront? Its the map not the gun. Being on offense and the only solutions being flare gun/spotter? You aren't required to run that ever. That's usually why when you play you flank spots. Not to mention the multiple years flare gun and spotter didn't exist... lol. Nerf the HVR harder? This is the exact opposite direction this game needs to be going. You're just going to nerf it till its nothing then what? We nerf the scout into the ground because its to broken? Then the DMR next? Sounds like you're just super upset about the HVR as a whole leading to a bias opinion on it.

Can't say I can relate to your experience of being killed in .10 secs as I don't have that occur to me ever. Regardless though premades are premades. They play together and work well together. You shouldn't be punishing them for that. Second don't blame being killed in .10secs on the hvr and ntec because waterfront is crap. Third I also enjoy playing video games. Its the reason i'm on this forum right now because I'd LIKE the game to be where it use to be when it was actually enjoyable and not resident sleeper like it is now. Lastly if you're getting outmatched by Silver Jimmy I don't know what to tell you. Ya I get it being HVR'd isn't fun. Hence why I said they should nerf the base damage as its ONLY nerf (as i've said a few times now). At the same time though there are most definitely ways to NOT get destroyed by Silver Jimmy who probably is just sitting in the middle of the road *cough* use a vehicle *cough*. Just saying if you enjoy playing video games you shouldn't like where the HVR is mechanically. Because its not a fun concept at all. As I said I'v disliked the HVR since I started playing back in 2011. But no gun deserves that kind of mechanic in a arcade shooter like APB. Incorrect. I'm saying it does to little damage with its base nerf in addition to its bloom scaling. Relative to the Scout.

That's odd because literally everyone would include me which funny enough I don't feel that way. There are also plenty of people i know who would very much disagree with that statement. Also the "op or unfair" sounds more on the level of a player skill issue more than anything. Its like people complaining that they're losing to an ntec while using an OCA. That is 100% the players fault not the weapons. Not to mention its the player using the weapon knows how to use it. Its not just strong because they're in a premade. You can't just chalk everything up to "a premade is destroying me with x so it needs to be nerfed". Then every gun in the game will just be nerfed. People do put time and effort into learning the limits of weapons and that's why they accel and make them seem "broken". It has nothing to do with premades its just player skill as a whole. Hence the learning/skill curve in apb.

Which is why in my other post I stated they should have just lowered the based damage of it. Also premades steam rolling people shouldn't dictate a weapons balance. Teamplay =/= weapon performance. I can play in a premade an steam roll people with the TG-8. Doesn't mean its broken. Not to mention the DMR-AV hits for 85 at extreme ranges and works very well if not better with coordinated teams. Regardless of teams how the weapon functions currently is terrible and no weapon should have a blooming system like that. Since all it does is slow down gameplay. The weapon has been in the game for a decade now and wasn't crazy broken. Its just annoying to go against hence why its damage should be lowered slightly.

The HVR really shouldn't remain where it is and that's coming from someone who dislikes the gun. The damage to bloom is awful and was just added as a "fun" mechanic to the gun. No gun should function like that in this game tbh. Considering none of them ever have until LO decide to add them in.

I mean the UwU guy you quoted said the Aces Rifle needs to be nerfed. Which by your statement means he should be ignored since it seems absurd to do such a change/say said statement. Which is pretty crazy considering its killing power is pretty bad to be honest. 14stk with a mag size of 35. While it is 2 kills in the mag the chances of you landing 14 perfect shots 2 times is very very unlikely. Also saying the Hvr needs a buff or the fbw is op isn't something to just ignore. As it is right now the HVR should be buffed by having its damage based on accuracy reverted. Its received multiple damage nerfs in multiple ways. While the scout has been buffed multiple times. Thus having the gap between the HVR and the Scout has become minimal. Where as before you could have a high damage sniper with limited mobility. Then a medium damage sniper with high mobility that didn't require you to swap to your pistol. Point is don't just ignore something because YOU think its bad. Emilika is right in saying it does need a buff. More so a revert but its still a buff none the less. All it ever needed was its based damage reduced slightly.

Roll back to prior RP's last batch of balance changes.

Lets face it weapons as they are currently are awful. Guns either are terrible or just feel bad. Then there a select few that feel ok like shotguns. The game was in a much much better state when the holy trinity was a thing. You have your 3 meta weapons Ntec, Hvr, and Pmg/Oca and balance around them accordingly. As i've said in other posts the atac for example is a good example of a balance between the ntec and the oca. The other huge issue with little orbits balancing is adding mechanics on guns that have never had them. I.e the HVR's damage scaling off bloom. Who in their right mind thought that was a fun, enjoyable, and balanced way to fix the hvr. I heavily dislike the HVR but that was the worst possible way to "fix" it. All anyone has ever asked for was the damage to be reduced so you couldn't die from stubbing your toe. As i've said LO should have started their ownership of the game with rolling back weapons to before RP's big weapon changes/nerfs before the game changed hands. Then work from there with the community NOT just the SPCT. Considering a lot of vets who truly care about the game (who aren't SPCT) are giving more than their 2 cents. Also adding random gimmicks to the game isn't enjoyable at all. Along with removing things that make apb apb such as jumpshots. Apb was in a much more fun and enjoyable state years ago compared to now. Its just a husk of what it once was.

Unfortunately despite keeping it relevant/not forgotten it never really has much light shined on it and a clear lack of Matt Scott making any sort of comment towards it. As we continue to see bad weapon balancing/changes. Along with "the way things are now is much better" comments. Some are to afraid to go back in time because they disliked when there was a holy trinity. Which lets face it. I'd rather have a holy trinity over whatever this pile of jenga blocks are.

*hands card* Welcome to the club where people have realized/know the weapon balancing is in a serious need of a rework *cough* revert *cough*.

10 year vet here. Its funny how wrong you are about vets. We don't come back to the game for "advantages and manipulation". We come back because we enjoy the game and/or nostalgia. Same reason vets still play World of Warcraft. Its not because of advantages. Its because they enjoy the game. Can you name another game that shares the arcade like gameplay (the part that makes the game so enjoyable) that APB does? Don't say GTA as its NOT like APB. Your second point is also laughable. What vets are you watching play other games that are "the worst players you've ever seen"? I play a variety of games (gears of war, league of legends, monster hunter, etc.) placing in the upper tiers of ranks. Just because you "watched" one or two people doesn't mean anything. Sounds like you're just on the forums to blow smoke. Also based on your forum account you've only been around for two years. So telling vets like myself we don't know what we're talking when we've seen a decade of changes/additions/balances just seems odd. Maybe try actually talking to REAL vets. We all have similar and different views on things. Don't just make some wild assumption we're in it for x,y, and z. In regards to vehicles nothing needs to be changed. There has never been a time I've thought car gameplay was broken/bad. Its easy to deal with. The ONLY thing that is annoying is people who run in TDM, Item Hold, and VIP. Otherwise just use one of the many anti car solutions.

- Lt. Surge - The game prior to RP weapon balancing - Customization - Ntec before it got nerfed multiple times (Pre Rp nerf) - Jump shots Ntec/Scout (when they actually existed)

That was more so why I was saying it should only be on guns (armas weapons) they add specifically IF they choose to have them. The unique mods don't generally add really impacting gameplay. I'm not saying to have them as a way to balance things. My point was weapons they add to the game should be the only guns up for consideration for unique gimmicks and not used to balance things. The mods should only add a minor amount uniqueness. Such as the Condor's or the Swarm Series. Low impact yet the guns still function well. Things such as the Ntec's increased bloom after a few shots or the HVR damage ramp up based on accuracy are a big mistake. Thats what a big part of my initial post on this thread was about. Core weapons like the Ntec and HVR should NOT have mechanics like that. Only weapons added into the game. Swarm, Condor, Aces, Odin series, etc.

I mean ttk is still part of the design. Their unique mods are fine. I prefer Armas weapons having unique traits instead of the core weapons. That way you can play around and come up with unique concepts for paid/joker ticket content while not testing/destorying core weapons in the game. The Condor, Swarm series, and Odin series all have little gimmick traits to them and can be enjoyed whenever. Better to make it choice than make it forced.

I wouldn't say balancing the meta game would be impossible as it was in a good spot before. Even with all the reskins (which doesn't impact anything) and the poorly designed guns. They just needed to adjust or even overhaul the poorly designed weapons they had added like the odin series being the first thing that comes to mind every time. They already had the Holy Trinity of 3 different weapon categories. All they had to do was look at those and use them as reference to adjusts weapons accordingly. Its like how the design of the ATAC falls between the Ntec and the Oca.

Ya sure I could agree with that but the direction this game has been going is only moving in the wrong direction. Day one Matt Scott should have reverted the big changes RP did and done his own testing from there. Back when the game still had a player base. Not take what RP had done and continue this nerf train that is weapon balancing *cough* ntec *cough*. You're setting your own limitations by shooting yourselves in the foot with changes that are A. Completely stupid such as the hvr damage ramping based on accuracy. When all anyone ever wanted was the damage to be adjusted slightly. Or B. Removing things that have been a feature in the game years. That also make APB the arcade style shooter it is. Talking about jumpshots with the HVR or the Ntec as two examples. TL:DR should have set the limitations when the game first traded hands by doing your OWN testing. Along with getting ACTUAL loyal and veteran players feedback.