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On 5/16/2019 at 12:08 PM, Lign said:

The main issue with the gun is that it’s too accurate in some situation. I said it a lot of times but I repeat.

 

Ntec with meta mods overshoots obeya with damage drop off in 60m. Its ttk is also fast to be reliable in cqc, but it’s not a fault of ttk, it’s an accuracy that allows you to spray first three shots like a laser.

the minimum bloom is also small when you’re spraying

Historically the N-Tec's TTK was always the issue. It's a medium range gun with a close range TTK.

 

If you go all the way back to the concepts for the STAR and N-Tec, it becomes evident that the former was meant to be an accurate, slightly slower medium range assault rifle, while the latter was supposed to lean closer to short ranges. Unfortunately the highly precise, fast firing, fast blooming design of the N-Tec also lent itself perfectly for ranged combat - even better than the accurate, slow firing STAR did.

So what did they do? They didn't try to fix the N-Tec and instead changed the STAR to what we have today (which is still accurate and slightly slower, as well as much weaker overall) and kept the N-Tec the same. While they did eventually touch the N-Tec, the core design issue was never adressed.

 

Generally speaking guns in APB work on two major traits: TTK and precision.

Everything that's supposed to work at close range has a low TTK (historically that's around 0.7s).

Everything that's supposed to work at long range has high precision (that's the size of the reticule in a resting position).

 

Everything else (bloom/accuracy, damage/firing speed/shots to kill, ammo/mag size etc.) are secondary attributes to give a weapon character.

 

The N-Tec was the only gun that combined both core traits at a high level (great TTK, high precision) in a single tool.

Nowadays the situation is ever so slightly different, because more guns with a lower TTK than 0.7 were introduced - originally the SHAW was the only one.

 

 

On 5/16/2019 at 1:20 PM, Flaws said:

And get outperformed by players who have the actual weapon for the actual range?

But why limit yourself to one range if you can carry a single weapon that excels at almost all of them?

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2 hours ago, Revoluzzer said:

But why limit yourself to one range if you can carry a single weapon that excels at almost all of them?

Because it actually doesn't like I already explained.

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Wow guys you are back into ntec shaming and some shitty mods changes to "fix" and "revive" the game when thats not really the issue... the game is simply not appealing anymore for what they have been doing this last year.

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I think a thing that people often forget in range discussions is car game play. Thankfully the average player doesn't utilize the pioneer outside of some CQC rushes. There are a lot of areas in the game where you can completely negate the downsides of your weapon by driving around in the pioneer. This can be abused to a disgusting degree. One of the greater areas for this is around the skate park in financial. Play it right and you have no need to ever switch weapons.

 

Perfect example is the JG, it has crap range on paper but all you need to do is corner peak them once and secure a kill. Then, you can car game their spawns (Obviously I'm ignoring objectives here for the sake of the argument). You can fight in open areas where normally your shotgun would be completely crippled. Equip a blowtorch and high burn fuel to completely negate AV weapons. What's the point in changing range values when there exists an essentially no downside way of positioning yourself unharmed. As someone who has used a lot of AV weapons, it's way too much effort to take down a fully slotted pioneer. 

 

It can survive an OSMAW direct hit at full health, the driver has enough time to jump out and with high burn fuel, even if I kill the car the dude won't die because of it. Then he can just proceed to OCA me down from behind the cover of the burned up car and I can't do anything because I'm committed to AV. Volcano can get a quick kill at longer ranges, but skilled drivers can avoid the second hit easily. DMR AV? It takes more than a mag to kill the car, that's 7 shots + reload time and then a couple more. 90% of the time the pioneer can drive behind cover or outside render distance. Even if I do kill it, high burn exists. Dog Ear is similar.

 

My point is that if we made this overpowered tank more manageable, people would naturally switch to more appropriate weapons. As it stands currently, you can keep one gun the entire mission in a lot more missions than you should be able to, simply because you can drive this mobile bunker. Then, after we see a more accurate meta that isn't inflated by car gaming, we can start tweaking values.

Edited by VanilleKeks
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6 minutes ago, VanilleKeks said:

I think a thing that people often forget in range discussions is car game play. Thankfully the average player doesn't utilize the pioneer outside of some CQC rushes. There are a lot of areas in the game where you can completely negate the downsides of your weapon by driving around in the pioneer. This can be abused to a disgusting degree. One of the greater areas for this is around the skate park in financial. Play it right and you have no need to ever switch weapons.

 

Perfect example is the JG, it has crap range on paper but all you need to do is corner peak them once and secure a kill. Then, you can car game their spawns (Obviously I'm ignoring objectives here for the sake of the argument). You can fight in open areas where normally your shotgun would be completely crippled. Equip a blowtorch and high burn fuel to completely negate AV weapons. What's the point in changing range values when there exists an essentially no downside way of positioning yourself unharmed. As someone who has used a lot of AV weapons, it's way too much effort to take down a fully slotted pioneer. 

 

It can survive an OSMAW direct hit at full health, the driver has enough time to jump out and with high burn fuel, even if I kill the car the dude won't die because of it. Then he can just proceed to OCA me down from behind the cover of the burned up car and I can't do anything because I'm committed to AV. Volcano can get a quick kill at longer ranges, but skilled drivers can avoid the second hit easily. DMR AV? It takes more than a mag to kill the car, that's 7 shots + reload time and then a couple more. 90% of the time the pioneer can drive behind cover or outside render distance. Even if I do kill it, high burn exists. Dog Ear is similar.

 

My point is that if we made this overpowered tank more manageable, people would naturally switch to more appropriate weapons. As is stands currently, you can keep one gun the entire mission in a lot more missions than you should be able to, simply because you can drive this mobile bunker. Then, after we see a more accurate meta that isn't inflated by car gaming, we can start tweaking values.

For that reason you need to spend a lot of money and time farming (up to the rank its given or maxing contacts) that could be your entire gameplay. Thats like a powerful gift as osmaw or opgl. There is no need for changing them.

Again craping players motivation to play is not a good idea.

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5 hours ago, SillyBear said:

For that reason you need to spend a lot of money and time farming (up to the rank its given or maxing contacts) that could be your entire gameplay. Thats like a powerful gift as osmaw or opgl. There is no need for changing them.

Again craping players motivation to play is not a good idea.

Or you could just buy the car on armas market 😉

Never seen such a pathetic excuse about the pioneer tbh

Edited by WorldDominator

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1 minute ago, WorldDominator said:

Or you could just but the car on armas market 😉

Never seen such a pathetic excuse about the pioneer tbh

Not everyone does it. I got mine playing and it was not an excuse, I felt rewarded for it.

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1 hour ago, WorldDominator said:

Or you could just buy the car on armas market 😉

Never seen such a pathetic excuse about the pioneer tbh

 

1 hour ago, SillyBear said:

Not everyone does it. I got mine playing and it was not an excuse, I felt rewarded for it.

 

Some of us are poor and cant afford it.

Look at how they run around in their underwear like that , the poor poor things they are....

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2 hours ago, SillyBear said:

Not everyone does it. I got mine playing and it was not an excuse, I felt rewarded for it.

Yea you if you're an enforcer you literally need about 200k which is not considered much to buy a 2 slotted one from the ingame market place, 200k can be farmed in 2 to 3 days with premium or 5 to 6 days without so rewarding indeed you should feel proud. Casual players like you aren't the reason why it hould be nerfed, i wouldn't mind having a casual player use that car I'm speaking about the real veteran players who abuse the shìt out of this car in this game and are ready to buy it from armas on every single character they create. 

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I don't understand your argument . I see no problem with modifications . but their number and diversity leaves much to be desired .

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Some good ideas in this thread. I really hope it gets looked at. 

 

I'd add on but I'm too tired to have this conversation for the millionth time. 

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17 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

 

 

Some of us are poor and cant afford it.

Look at how they run around in their underwear like that , the poor poor things they are....

What???

 

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i love haters, they always release their emotions to me with a red download sign. thanks !

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