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Nitronik

Halting all weapon balance changes was a major mistake

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9 minutes ago, Lign said:

 

ok, go visit apbdb, look at the act 44, look at the fbw

 

"hurr durr why dont people use the act 44" "because its inaccurate" oh so lets buff the accuracy "hey look my act 44 can compete in cqc almost just as good as the fbw"

 

not to mention, the fbw already wasn't broken when it was 5 shot. think critically moron.

 

Edited by Thaumaturge

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1 minute ago, Thaumaturge said:

ok, go visit apbdb, look at the act 44, look at the fbw

 

"hurr durr why dont people use the act 44" "because its inaccurate" oh so lets buff the accuracy "hey look my act 44 can compete in cqc almost just as good as the fbw"

 

not to mention, the fbw already wasn't broken when it was 5 shot. people like you who can't think critically are the reason why the game is the way it is.

Weren't you talking about fbw and 45ap instead of fbw vs act44

Edited by Lign

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2 minutes ago, Lign said:

Weren't you talking about fbw and 45ap instead of fbw vs act44

 

FBW/45 should have matching TTK's, and it should be increased just a tiny bit via firerate changes if the below change is added

 

you wanna think critically about the suggestion i wrote immediately below that line of text, or am i putting it here?

 

 

Edited by Thaumaturge

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1 minute ago, Thaumaturge said:

 

FBW/45 should have matching TTK's, and it should be increased just a tiny bit via firerate changes if the below change is added

 

you wanna think critically about the suggestion i wrote immediately below that line of text, or am i putting it here?

 

 

I'm talking about your stupid idea to match ttk of fbw and 45, not about act44

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6 minutes ago, Lign said:

I'm talking about your stupid idea to match ttk of fbw and 45, not about act44

okay, in that case, maybe try being a bit constructive and give a reason, other than a dumb meme video?

 

both are stupid easy to use, the 45 is a straight upgrade in every way except the clip size, which is largely irrelevant for any good player. it's also not readily accessible for many players, which is an issue in and of itself.

 

1 minute ago, Lign said:

true, but the problem with act44 and rsa is if it gets even a slight buff, it will too strong. Imagine a secondary that performs as good as obeya or obir

i'm just gonna stop replying to you, i'm not sure you understand what you're talking about.

 

my post literally stated i wanted to return to previous archetypes of having close, medium, and long range secondaries, and that it was important that existing guns (which would include the act44 and rsa), like the RFP, do not outclass primaries.

Edited by Thaumaturge

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2 minutes ago, Thaumaturge said:

okay, in that case, maybe try being a bit constructive and give a reason, other than a dumb meme video?

 

both are stupid easy to use, the 45 is a straight upgrade.

true, but the problem with act44 and rsa is if it gets even a slight buff, it will be too strong. Imagine a secondary that performs as good as obeya or obir

Edited by Lign

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4 minutes ago, Lign said:

true, but the problem with act44 and rsa is if it gets even a slight buff, it will be too strong. Imagine a secondary that performs as good as obeya or obir

that already exists rfp with ir3

one thing i dont really understand why match the range of the jg/csg with the pmg it will make pmg useless and shotguns overpowered

 

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8 minutes ago, RCooper said:

that already exists rfp with ir3

one thing i dont really understand why match the range of the jg/csg with the pmg it will make pmg useless and shotguns overpowered

 

People has been asking for ir3 rpf nerf since the release. No point to make another super meta secondary.

If jg/csg would have the same range as pmg, what's the point of all mid range guns such as carbine, oscar, oca and pmg, when you can just two shot everyone from 40m and stay full hp because of corners. Shotguns are already op because how it benefits from corners and 3rd person camera, make it even stronger is the dumbest thing. On the other hand, if pmg range gets matched to jg/csg then what's the point of using it when you have oca that perfoms better

Edited by Lign

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13 minutes ago, RCooper said:

that already exists rfp with ir3

one thing i dont really understand why match the range of the jg/csg with the pmg it will make pmg useless and shotguns overpowered

 

because you aren't matching the ttk, each will have their niche and it was like that previously years ago, and nobody had an issue. it seems to actually be a commonly requested suggestion from a lot of veteran discussions. (referring to shotguns/pmg)

 

not to mention, the range was referring to the damage dropoff (i shouldve clarified), not the spread on the shotguns, which works in its own way independently of other weapons and would seriously hinder it  compared to every other mid range gun. (and this guy just said shotguns are op, wow LOL.)

 

so no, if you had any idea how shotgun spread works, you wouldn't be twoshotting at 40m if the damage dropoff was raised, not to mention, the pmg isn't even good at 40 meters.

 

and youd be using it because it has its own style of play, is successful at close-mid range, and will outperform an oca past that range every time, while still being relatively competitive with an OCA in its bracket.

 

 

i actually wish you would seriously read my fucking post bro

Edited by Thaumaturge

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2 minutes ago, Thaumaturge said:

because you aren't matching the ttk, each will have their niche and it was like that previously years ago, and nobody had an issue. it seems to actually be a commonly requested suggestion from a lot of veteran discussions.

 

I don't want 5stk fbw back. But 45ap 5stk makes sense because of low magazine capacity and big recoil with random XY pattern it has

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This really went off topic hard

There's a lot of opinions going around regarding weapon balance - would be nice to know if LO has any short term plans however.

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11 minutes ago, Thaumaturge said:

so no, if you had any idea how shotgun spread works, you wouldn't be twoshotting at 40m if the damage dropoff was raised, not to mention, the pmg isn't even good at 40 meters.

CSG was twoshotting everyone from 40m when it got released

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1 minute ago, Lign said:

CSG was twoshotting everyone from 40m when it got released

shotgun spread does not work the same anymore. you actually dont have a single remote clue as to what you're talking about.

 

and i am done posting here

Edited by Thaumaturge
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13 hours ago, GhosT said:

I agree.

In my opinion, the shotgun changes should be reverted and stay there.

The shotgun balance was fine and probably the most well balanced weapon class in APB. The shredder could use a tiny buff though.

Right now, only two shotguns are now useful, and the rest is irrelevant.



Then only touch the few problematic weapons by slightly nerfing the, such as the OCA (revert the unnecessary G1 buff), the N-TEC, the N-HVR, or the RFP-9.

This allows users to have the option to use other guns that won't put them at a disadvantage for not using them.

 

Then buff all the bad and underpowered weapons such as the COBR-A, ISSR-a, ACT-44, AR-97, RSA, FR0G, H9, Mounties, NCR-762, Norseman, OCSP, R-2, S-247, S1-FA, S1-TIC, SBSR, STAR LCR, SWARM and the VAS-C2.

 

 

But if you decide to touch the weapon balance again, it needs thorough testing before reaching the live build, and then treat the new live build as the last testing phase where more users can share their opinions about it, as previous OTW-Tests and Prototype-Districts haven't worked at all due to the small playerbase.

i wholeheartedly agree with most statements in your post - but only partially with this one.

while i always felt that shotguns were well balanced, the constant complaints about bad hitreg on shotguns were somewhat justified (albeit annoying - and i do think some "hitreg" issues were actually aiming issues lul) - and this has done away with it. 

it was a quite reasonable idea and good fix/buff too - obviously too strong though - and some weapons got nerfed too hard after.

instead of reverting, i'd rather see it being fixed - and i feel like it only requires some tweaking.

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15 hours ago, Nitronik said:

Due to APB's competitive nature, it is important for the game to be well balanced, with no item or weapon being clearly superior to another.


This is currently not the case for a good chunk of weapons - Some are woefully underpowered, while others dominate their range bracket.

 

Following the recent shotgun changes, Little Orbit has seemingly abandoned all weapon balancing efforts, possibly in hopes of not angering the community further.
While I sympathize with the mindset that led to this approach, this is not a healthy way to go on about it - and has in fact caused more harm than good.

 

While the pellet scaling changes were great, the stats given to some shotguns have led to them being underwhelming (e.g. JG, CSG) or extremely annoying to fight against (NFAS, DOW)
Some very good changes (OCA TTK nerf on OTW) were also never pushed to the live servers, contributing to some weapons being further cemented as the best option

 

LO has not communicated at all on the topic of weapon balance ever since.

There are a lot of small changes that could contribute towards a much more varied meta, but if all of them are being put on the backburner indefinitely (as far as we know), at least let us know!

it was openly stated by Little Orbit as well as the community that it is not time for weapon balancing because of the difficulty and lack of expertise on this matter

you do not diffuse a bomb with a novice unless you have a will made out for next of kin.

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29 minutes ago, LoveForMatt said:

Its been the best thing they did stopping trying to balance weapons because they did all wrong.

 

I lost plenty of millions i won as free player over all my time ingame because they changed or nerfed weapons be by direct nerf or because i sold my guns. They caused enough damage.

oh yeah? which weapons did they nerf so the prices decreased? right, only the hroken yukon

(and overbuffed dow + ogre to some degree... that were quite cheap before that buff too)

whoever invested in a yukon, expecting that it would stay like this is at fault themselves.

it was a broken weapon, g1 admitted it, and whoever exploited it and used it as a crutch only deserves to lose that bit of value.

 

also the most important factor in balance is how much they cost on social mp. sure.

6 minutes ago, Fortune Runner said:

it was openly stated by Little Orbit as well as the community that it is not time for weapon balancing because of the difficulty and lack of expertise on this matter

you do not diffuse a bomb with a novice unless you have a will made out for next of kin.

diffusing a bomb is a strange idea. it gets diffused by exploding though... uh... (defusing has a quite different meaning xd)

 

please stop the fullquotes of big posts...

 

but yeah, that was their saying it was reasonable - leaving the shotguns where they are rn feels still a bit off though...

Edited by neophobia

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4 minutes ago, neophobia said:

strange idea

hows that?

Doesnt feel right to me though.

People might mistake what someone has said right?

It's why I quote the way I do especially since some trolls do that to take things out of context.

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35 minutes ago, Fortune Runner said:

hows that?

Doesnt feel right to me though.

People might mistake what someone has said right?

It's why I quote the way I do especially since some trolls do that to take things out of context.

diffuse means like spreading something... e.g. like how a perfume smell "expands" over a room - diffusing a bomb would seem odd (although an explosion does that... kind of)

defuse would be disarming the bomb xd

 

i guess. quoting only things important to your post just makes posts/threads more legible and if you were responding to a certain point, it'd make that clearer.(and one wouldn't have to read the whole post again)

 

it's just mildly annoying having to scroll down the whole post again on phone too, just to see a one sentence answer underneath. (especially when it's the op that doesn't really need quoting to begin with, especially if you don't address a certain point in it)

 

i guess i could just tap on the quote to hide it too. to be fair. i didn't think of this. whoops, lul.

Edited by neophobia

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tbh idc when they start balancing weapons

 

 

so long as they dont do someone's shit tier idea i once saw that said 'we should balance weapons and change them often like league of legends'

 

lmao

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17 hours ago, Nitronik said:

I am actually proposing to give you back the CSG

I hope so. Because since I took pointsman weapons it's time to "nerf them" to some.

How am I gonna ever have my revenge on all this shooties killing me because I have other weapons than them?

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4 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

it was openly stated by Little Orbit as well as the community that it is not time for weapon balancing because of the difficulty and lack of expertise on this matter

you do not diffuse a bomb with a novice unless you have a will made out for next of kin.


But you do want to try and defuse a bomb - there's a difference between losing a couple experts to a botched defusal attempt vs losing hundreds of people to an uncontrolled explosion.

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11 minutes ago, Nitronik said:


But you do want to try and defuse a bomb - there's a difference between losing a couple experts to a botched defusal attempt vs losing hundreds of people to an uncontrolled explosion.

pft that's why you let the expert bomb disposal unit deal with it  😛

and this one is still in training for that so no thank you patience is a virtue and not goo everywhere

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So dear thread-starter, just in case you are wondering why LO has stopped making changes to the weapons read every post in this thread again (and bear in mind that every post no matter how it is rated here represents a legit fraction of gamers) and you will understand why LO acts the way they do and why that is probably the best thing they can do at the moment.

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On 3/19/2019 at 2:55 PM, Thaumaturge said:

ok, go visit apbdb, look at the act 44, look at the fbw

 

"hurr durr why dont people use the act 44" "because its inaccurate" oh so lets buff the accuracy "hey look my act 44 can compete in cqc almost just as good as the fbw"

 

not to mention, the fbw already wasn't broken when it was 5 shot. think critically moron.

 

The act 44 still has a really high draw time, so the FBW will win in most fights. The FBW was 5 shots, so was the joker carbine. The OSMAW had no timer, and the N-TEC could be effectively used at 80M.

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Oca buff was unneeded, RFP range buff was unneeded, nfas buff was unneeded, Obeya/ Obir range nerf was unneeded, csg rework isn't very good, shotgun ttk didn't need to be nerfed (though JG isn't that terrible if they fix the Oca).

 

Instead of halting changes when the weapon balance is a bit of a mess, they should just fix the major issues and revert the things that didn't need fixed.

Edited by Emcitement
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