Premium, the Joker Store and the P2Whiners

[Seadee 107]

Premium is nice, i like it, i work and i dont have the time to grind away endlessly at games anymore, with that in mind, the way premium works is also not particularly useful for people who work all the time, but that is life right, you pay for 30 days and use a total of 6 days worth (wow and other monthly sub games are just as guilty its normal)

but you also have that issue where Premium lets you "pay to win" by giving you a bonus cool down, extra rep, extra cash and a discount for ARMAS (p2w city amirite?) 

i dont totally agree with the p2w ethos, the most used weapons are all available in game, ARMAS lets you skip the grind (good for those who want to play without grinding) unique weapons however should be available in game and not just in ARMAS, JMB's should be available to purchase in game some how or the legendary items in themselves available (or a version of, say the same stats and mods but a less flamboyant skin/model)  

if premium gave the rep/cash bonus and also a set amount of Joker Tickets per 30 days time purchased (based on an average player's grind) but then you removed (or gave everyone) the cool down for orange mods (this quelling some of the p2w)

whilst also putting "less legendary" weapons into the Joker Store, priced appropriately, as well as certain mods, kits and clothes ( leaving Vanity items, New or Fancy Car Kits, Clothing, Remodels of weapons in the ARMAS store) you could give a reason to have Premium and also stop a lot of the p2w nonsense.

tl:dr -

Premium - Give cooldown to everyone even none premium, Give set amount of Joker tickets to premium holders for every 30 days the buy, continue getting Bonus to grindables.

Joker Store - base models of weapons (3 slots/"less than legendary"/unique) to LEASE, some plain/old clothing items, car kits and a selection of mods/consumables

ARMAS - Remodels of weapons (3 slots) Legendary JMB (gamble aware) and Unique to BUY, all Clothing items, Car kits, Cars, ETC

Both stores have the same meaningful impact, ARMAS just has more vanity items and permanent options that are more accessible for people who don't have the time to grind.

[NotZombieBiscuit 3146]

I Agree with the premium change on cooldown. However I think if Joker Tickets to be added to premium it should be a bonus to what you earn, not given for free. Treat it like money/standing and have it that challenges and dailies give double Joker Tickets for premium members.

[ShadowXS 130]

5 minutes ago, Seadee said:

tl:dr -

Premium - Give cooldown to everyone even none premium, Give set amount of Joker tickets to premium holders for every 30 days the buy, continue getting Bonus to grindables.

I like this.

 

The fact that premium offers the ability to have shortened cooldowns on utility items allows those who purchase premium more versatility by being able to change weapons far more frequently and with ease, dependant on certain stages of a mission - and in a game where adaptability is KEY to overcoming a well-guarded objective, you can not allow certain players to have a more versatile and on-the-go interchangeable loadout - or else, by doing so, you create a playing ground that is no longer FAIR and EQUAL for all players, and thus, by definition, pay-to-win. It is that simple.

 

In practise i would not call it pay-to-win, as good team work and timing is far more invaluable, but anything that directly affects gameplay and is then put behind a paywall, is technically pay-to-win.

 

Plus, no one who buys premium even buys it for the cooldowns, they buy it for the fact that it opens up the full potential of customisation this game has to offer. Naturally, they would need to substitute-in benefits to make premium more appealing whilst removing the only pay-to-win factor this game actually has (the cooldown reduction) - and i like the concept you're suggesting, of getting X amount of currency a month. There are other MMO's out there that have a similar optional-subscription model that give X amount of in-game currency per month subscribed, that can be spent in their own respective micro-transaction stores.

 

There are MANY other things that can be bundle'd into Subscriber-only benefits that would not be considered for example having shorter cooldowns on their dailies instead, rewarded with X amount of JT, or G1C, etc.

[ShadowXS 130]

Ideas for Premium to take the place of reduced cooldowns, for example;

 

- X amount of JT a month.

- X amount of G1C a month.

- Reduced cooldowns on daily objectives.

- Ability to complete multiple dailies per day.

- Each month there's a special ARMAS-exclusive weapon leased to ALL premium subscribers, for that month. For example; [First month: Agrotech ACES Rifle R&D III], [Second month: FR0G 'Thumbnail'], etc.

- A few days early access to new ARMAS-exclusive content such as weapons, vehicles, etc. Only premium members can purchase these newly-released items for X amount of days, then released to all.

- A random vanity gift to all premium subscribers every month. For example; [First month: Cigarette], [Second month: Cannibal Mask], etc. (This should last long enough until LO start pumping out new content).

- Increased customisation options, new fonts that are Premium-exclusive, new symbols that are Premium-exclusive, etc. Anyone can buy items in the marketplace with these Premium-only customisation options, but only premium members can use them in the designer / on their vehicle / on their clothes, etc.

- Additional character slots (all the additional characters after the first 2 become un-accessible until you repurchase premium. You can only access 2 characters per account without premium. SWTOR does this).

- Temporary access to special weapon skins that are Premium-exclusive.

- Temporary access to ALL weapon skins whilst subscribed to Premium.

 

Literally so many things LO (@MattScott) could substitute as benefits to Premium players, I'm sure i'm barely even scratching the surface on ideas. So many things could be added that would make Premium WAY more attractive to players. They could literally add EVERYTHING on the list and I don't think many people would complain as long as they removed the only pay-to-win aspect of Premium - the shortened cooldowns on utilities. Do a forum survey, see what people want, what they don't want. Idk. 

 

*sorry for double-posting, editing my previous post wasn't updating*

Edited November 5, 2018 by ShadowXS

[Seadee 107]

2 hours ago, NotZombieBiscuit said:

I Agree with the premium change on cooldown. However I think if Joker Tickets to be added to premium it should be a bonus to what you earn, not given for free. Treat it like money/standing and have it that challenges and dailies give double Joker Tickets for premium members.

that could work, only reason i suggested bonus JT was because of games like PS2 where the "premium" option gives you Credits to spend (though i suppose that's like paying $10 a month and getting 500g1c as part of the package) 

[pikckyy 14]

Premium gives you a boost in the right direction but by no means is this game pay to win.  Its pay for a boost but not pay to win.  I like to consider myself a pretty decent player usually breaking 10-15 kills a mission and dropping 20's here and there and always top 3-5 if not higher in fight club's but i still find myself getting absolutely dome rocked by default ntecs on low level players and such... this is simply just you finding something to complain about.  It is not pay to win, it just helps with the progression of the game.

[Seadee 107]

1 hour ago, ShadowXS said:

*Snip* - Good Post

Nice suggestions, an important thing to remember with it is not to make it too imbalanced in game terms for premium and none premium players, other than that the world is their oyster.

if the benefits for premium went beyond "making your outfit that one time" then more people would maintain it, which means free players (from a business sense) would have more support.

as much as people say things like "but i bought guns" or "i had premium" at the end of the day, if you are not signed up for premium you cant be count as projected funding.

if people sub for premium there is a set income for that month and can easily be projected, from a business point of view it makes more sense to make premium attractive and free play not so attractive, but this should never be done at the detriment of actual enjoyment of the game for all players regardless of money spent.

Just now, pikckyy said:

Premium gives you a boost in the right direction but by no means is this game pay to win.  Its pay for a boost but not pay to win.  I like to consider myself a pretty decent player usually breaking 10-15 kills a mission and dropping 20's here and there and always top 3-5 if not higher in fight club's but i still find myself getting absolutely dome rocked by default ntecs on low level players and such... this is simply just you finding something to complain about.  It is not pay to win, it just helps with the progression of the game.

this is not a discussion about if the game is pay to win, it's only mentioned purely because of the sort of posts you think you are responding to.

because of the minor mechanics that really dont make any difference, but cause the perception of pay to win, people slather it with the brush and force the rest of us to make posts like yours.

i'm not saying you are wrong, i dont think the game is pay to win, i think there are aspects which could be fixed, there ARE weapons that are considered straight upgrades and are thus better than standard counterparts which you can only get on ARMAS (if these WERE actually pay2win EVERYONE would have them) but when you consider the most common and most useful weapon in the game is an NTEC followed closely by the HVR, CR762 and OCA, you quickly realise how the game is just a bit wonky.

but thats the problem, its not US who have to be convinced, its the new players who come on for 30 mins, get crushed, then complain that the game is p2w, write a review on a website, which slanders the game and no one else plays it again.

TL:DR - i agree, its not p2w, but it looks like p2w if you dont pay attention properly, which is most people who are new to the game, fix those discrepancies, fix the perception of imbalance.

[pikckyy 14]

You can purchase better counterparts just the same as you can buy a multi slot gun and save up money to buy mods and use them on that gun to make it the exact same if not better than guns in armas.  Anyone on the outside who out of the gate claim it's pay to win are simply just bad at the game because they are new and not giving it enough of a chance.

[pikckyy 14]

 

look at these kids disliking my posts lol, those are the kids who cry everytime they die.

[gasolina 11]

i like your idea a lot so +1

 

i was also thinking what if you had 1 daily activity a day where you could get a free 10 day armas wep (randomized), or if you're lucky 365 days of a car, and if you're really really lucky an item of clothing for perm. You could only do it once per day, and you had to do an activity like kill 50 people or blow up 10 enemy cars with people in them so it's relatively difficult/time consuming to do

 

that way that'd give people who are max rank that don't already own every single item in the game something to do. kinda like sorties for warframe but maybe a bit more rewarding than that

 

[Seadee 107]

1 hour ago, pikckyy said:

You can purchase better counterparts just the same as you can buy a multi slot gun and save up money to buy mods and use them on that gun to make it the exact same if not better than guns in armas.  Anyone on the outside who out of the gate claim it's pay to win are simply just bad at the game because they are new and not giving it enough of a chance.

but the problem is that people on the outside dont give the game a chance, because it doesnt look like it warrants it.

LO need to make the game appear as it is and iron any discrepancies out, there is no point trying to defend it by saying things like "well its not that bad" it either is or it isnt, at the moment even though its only marginal and its a nothingness because of how the majority play the game, there are people out there who take one look and see the differences and say "nope thats p2w"

If for example, every item you can lease on ARMAS had a Joker Ticket Cost as well as the G1C value, then people could see that you can buy them in game as well as with real cash and anyone who looked at the shop to see if its "pay to win" would see that you have everything available to you.

there are many other things and ideas that i'm sure everyone has about how to make the game more transparent for new players, i'm just throwing a few of mine out, being a big fan of "this game is not pay to win" i want to make it so everyone can see the game with the correct mindset.

sure it wont stop everyone bitching, thats what being human is, but it will help.

[Kominis 26]

Oh man, i remember my young, F2P days and how i wished on getting some of them ARMAS goodies my self. Never whined saying that ARMAS weaponry is P2W. As a long non-premium player i agree on making modification cooldowns the same.

 

Also I wish they try to re-work ARMAS yet again and unpack all the pack bound items.

For example i wan't to buy just a stock 4 slot Vegas G20 4x4 for G1C, but there's no option. Now i have to grind ingame for JT.

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by Kominis

[pikckyy 14]

2 hours ago, trustdealer said:

i like your idea a lot so +1

 

i was also thinking what if you had 1 daily activity a day where you could get a free 10 day armas wep (randomized), or if you're lucky 365 days of a car, and if you're really really lucky an item of clothing for perm. You could only do it once per day, and you had to do an activity like kill 50 people or blow up 10 enemy cars with people in them so it's relatively difficult/time consuming to do

 

that way that'd give people who are max rank that don't already own every single item in the game something to do. kinda like sorties for warframe but maybe a bit more rewarding than that

 

better as a once a week type of deal, 10 day gun will last you the week then you can go for a new one, daily would be op for the big reward probabilities 

1 hour ago, Seadee said:

but the problem is that people on the outside dont give the game a chance, because it doesnt look like it warrants it.

LO need to make the game appear as it is and iron any discrepancies out, there is no point trying to defend it by saying things like "well its not that bad" it either is or it isnt, at the moment even though its only marginal and its a nothingness because of how the majority play the game, there are people out there who take one look and see the differences and say "nope thats p2w"

If for example, every item you can lease on ARMAS had a Joker Ticket Cost as well as the G1C value, then people could see that you can buy them in game as well as with real cash and anyone who looked at the shop to see if its "pay to win" would see that you have everything available to you.

there are many other things and ideas that i'm sure everyone has about how to make the game more transparent for new players, i'm just throwing a few of mine out, being a big fan of "this game is not pay to win" i want to make it so everyone can see the game with the correct mindset.

sure it wont stop everyone bitching, thats what being human is, but it will help.

allow joker tickets to buy things from armas in high value (30,000 JT for perm rifle, 20,000 JT for perm pistol) this solves your issue doesnt it?

[BrandonBranderson 672]

The cool down difference between premium and non premium should definitely be eliminated.  BUT it should be set to the current premium cool down time.  I can't imagine waiting twice as long to use a little 5 second long minor speed boost in my car.

 

Also make all weapon icons white except the valentines guns and legendaries.  The gold icons only appear to free players as bought p2w weapons.

Edited November 5, 2018 by BrandonBranderson

[Seadee 107]

16 hours ago, BrandonBranderson said:

Also make all weapon icons white except the valentines guns and legendaries.  The gold icons only appear to free players as bought p2w weapons.

it sounds trivial but you are not wrong, even if its the CR5 3 slot (thats gold isnt it) people still think its something different, i mean one way to possibly solve that (which would require some effort of sorts) would be to allow you to inspect players from the scoreboard, then have ACTUAL weapon stats in the weapon profiles.

so they can look and see "oh its just an ntec" 

17 hours ago, pikckyy said:

allow joker tickets to buy things from armas in high value (30,000 JT for perm rifle, 20,000 JT for perm pistol) this solves your issue doesnt it?

Maybe, but then that would be slightly counter productive, who would pay for anything if they can grind the perm for free? 

you've still got to make it worth spending real money on the game, but you have to make it so that those players are not at an advantage when it comes to PvP.

proper match making can fix this sort of issue as well, if it accounts for all weapons and equipment that that player has immediately available to them (as in all weapons/mods/cars in your inventory/locker) as well as their skill level, spread across the whole player base, not just the one district, but that is a different conversation for a different thread. 

[Excalibur! 207]

Nah. I disagree to changing the gmae even more to please p2w criers.

They are already nerfin legendaries and any purpose to keep playing the game so its dead for good.

[pikckyy 14]

On 11/5/2018 at 2:08 PM, BrandonBranderson said:

The cool down difference between premium and non premium should definitely be eliminated.  BUT it should be set to the current premium cool down time.  I can't imagine waiting twice as long to use a little 5 second long minor speed boost in my car.

 

Also make all weapon icons white except the valentines guns and legendaries.  The gold icons only appear to free players as bought p2w weapons.

i like the yellow, looks nice. 

 

5 hours ago, Excalibur! said:

Nah. I disagree to changing the gmae even more to please p2w criers.

They are already nerfin legendaries and any purpose to keep playing the game so its dead for good.

I also disagree with all the nerfing done to legendaries, yukon for example... the gun was 12,000,000 in game dollars... thats an ABSURD amount of money.  If you can save up 12 million in game then you DESERVE to have an insanely good sidearm, then they nerf it and now no one wants it.

[SLICKIEM 118]

23 minutes ago, pikckyy said:

I also disagree with all the nerfing done to legendaries, yukon for example

the Yukon's original fire rate wasn't intended to be that fast, fyi. not so much a nerf as a fix. it was definitely an unfair crutch weapon before it was fixed

[CookiePuss 5377]

3 minutes ago, SLICKIEM said:

the Yukon's original fire rate wasn't intended to be that fast, fyi. not so much a nerf as a fix

^this^

never say nerf... nerds get heated if you say nerf

[SLICKIEM 118]

1 hour ago, CookiePuss said:

nerd

did you just assume my social clique? how dare you

[Seadee 107]

16 hours ago, Excalibur! said:

Nah. I disagree to changing the gmae even more to please p2w criers.

They are already nerfin legendaries and any purpose to keep playing the game so its dead for good.

Why? Why? Why?
What?
Why exactly?
What? Why?
Be more constructive with your feedback, please, why?
Why?

so you don't want the game to be fair for vet players and more accessible for new players as well as potentially increasing revenue in a constructive way so that it can keep being developed and become the game we want to love? 

If you think having OP weapons and winning because of crutches is the "purpose" of the game, then i think you might have missed the point a bit.

[BrandonBranderson 672]

18 hours ago, pikckyy said:

i like the yellow, looks nice. 

 

I also disagree with all the nerfing done to legendaries, yukon for example... the gun was 12,000,000 in game dollars... thats an ABSURD amount of money.  If you can save up 12 million in game then you DESERVE to have an insanely good sidearm, then they nerf it and now no one wants it.

That doesn't outweigh the downside.

 

The Yukon was just straight up broken.  The gun was actually just not functioning as intended.  It had the highest fire rate in the game because G1 didn't bother to set the fire rate differently than the burst fire rate.  Instead of saving up $12,000,000 you could pay real cash to potentially get an op gun, which is P2W, and none of us want that.

Edited November 7, 2018 by BrandonBranderson

[ShadowXS 130]

7 hours ago, BrandonBranderson said:

That doesn't outweigh the downside.

 

The Yukon was just straight up broken.  The gun was actually just not functioning as intended.  It had the highest fire rate in the game because G1 didn't bother to set the fire rate differently than the burst fire rate.  Instead of saving up $12,000,000 you could pay real cash to potentially get an op gun, which is P2W, and none of us want that.

What the people crying about the Yukon FIX fail to comprehend is that the weapon was purposely broken, as was every new ARMAS release, and will always get fixed eventually. That was the entire sales-tactic of the old-G1 team. Release OP ARMAS/JMB weapon, leave it be OP for a while so everyone wants it, spend real money on it, let them have it for a while, THEN when they are planning to release a new weapon on ARMAS or through JMB, they would nerf said weapon, or rather fix it since they purposely released it broken so people would buy it, and ensure that this newly released weapon is OP, so that everyone would once again flock to it and spend money on it yet again, to get that edge.

 

Everyone knew this, or well, those with an IQ above.. what, maybe 60?

 

The only reason the Yukon fix took so long to come around was because of the Tiggs to LO transition that took place which disallowed old-G1 of needing to release a new weapon, and thus leaving this one broken. The fix was so easy infact, that the developer who fixed the Yukon said somewhere on these forums that he was writing code for a patch to fix something else, and he decided to just quickly fix up the Yukon in the process since it took almost no time.

[BrandonBranderson 672]

15 hours ago, ShadowXS said:

 

Perfect example of this was the Troublemaker.  We had complained for months before they even touched it.  That sound still reverberates through my head.  *chills*