Why were the OCA and NTEC Test-A changes not pushed to live?

[SLICKIEM 118]

1 minute ago, Nitronik said:

0.68ttk would give it an edge over the PMG

You mean instead of being straight up better for 10m and closer? It already had a pretty massive edge over PMG, especially the Whisper with 50m damage dropoff and boosted crouch accuracy. (Which the PMG has as well, to be fair)

[Nitronik 348]

2 minutes ago, SLICKIEM said:

6 minutes ago, Nitronik said:

0.68ttk would give it an edge over the PMG

You mean instead of being straight up better for 10m and closer? It already had a pretty massive edge over PMG, especially the Whisper with 50m damage dropoff and boosted crouch accuracy. (Which the PMG has as well, to be fair)

Hey now! The 0.7 TTK of the PMG is still pretty competitive for CQC, you're forgetting it hits like a truck and has a bit more outreach due to damage and accuracy as well

I think it's stupid for the whisper to have insane drop-off , but a lot of people apparently don't share that opinion
  Edited October 2, 2018 by Nitronik

[Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 269]

11 minutes ago, Arrowtotheknee said:

OCA/PMG/NTEC/HVR/OBEYA/SHOTGUNS because they are good at what they do in most situations. 

Which means there are two potential problems. Either they do what they do too effectively or the others in their respective class just perform too badly

[Flaws 1033]

26 minutes ago, Nitronik said:

I wanted to pick this post apart earlier but here we go

Honestly you are *way* overplaying the complexity of the NTEC.
Taking advantage of positioning is not inherent to the NTEC itself - all guns require good positioning to make use of them, even something as boring as the OCA - and there's *many* examples of bloom control in the game, such as the CR762, the Misery, the COBR-A, the Carbine (if you want to poke at longer ranges or just not have a bent barrel)

Recoil control on the N-TEC? LMAO

I personally think it's a fair trade off for a gun that is so apparently so flexible (it is more flexible than a bunch of options not meant to be flexible, I'll give you that) to take really minor nerfs - you're not destroying it with shit like a 0.8 ttk

 

I'm not overplaying anything. N-TEC does require a lot more things to control compared to anything else that is considered meta (Misery and COBR-A have no place in the meta currently).

And yes, there is more recoil on the N-TEC than an OCA or an oscar/carbine (if you wanna stick to mid-range only weapons) and it has way less mobility than both of those. Edited October 2, 2018 by Flaws

[Nitronik 348]

2 minutes ago, Flaws said:

I'm not overplaying anything. N-TEC does require a lot more things to control compared to anything else that is considered meta (Miser and COBR-A have no place in the meta currently).
 

Let's assume I were to agree. What does a 0.02ttk increase change?

[SLICKIEM 118]

18 minutes ago, Nitronik said:

Hey now! The 0.7 TTK of the PMG is still pretty competitive for CQC

True true. I prefer it over OCA because of the nice damage, mostly. Better for assisting if you can only hit a couple of shots

[Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 269]

6 minutes ago, Nitronik said:

9 minutes ago, Flaws said:

I'm not overplaying anything. N-TEC does require a lot more things to control compared to anything else that is considered meta (Miser and COBR-A have no place in the meta currently).
 

Let's assume I were to agree. What does a 0.02ttk increase change?

A bit more skill needed Edited October 2, 2018 by Weeb TheEpicGuyV2

[Arrowtotheknee 7]

13 minutes ago, Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 said:

27 minutes ago, Arrowtotheknee said:

OCA/PMG/NTEC/HVR/OBEYA/SHOTGUNS because they are good at what they do in most situations. 

Which means there are two potential problems. Either they do what they do too effectively or the others in their respective class just perform too badly

its more the latter, thus why im for buffing guns that aren't used very often and giving them a place in the meta. Same thing with cars, the only ones are viable are the pioneer and espacio because they literally a gigantic block of unstoppable bullet sponge that covers you from head to shin, you don't need to crouch and limit your mobility if someone starts to shoot you over the car. The packer Ceresco (candy van) provides just as much cover but it takes very little to blow it up and the ramming strength is very minimal. If it was as strong as a pioneer in terms of its ability to ram cars out of the way, top speed and hp, you would most certainly see it more often.

[Nitronik 348]

I'm concerned with the "buff everything" approach due to power creep, and I used to be a supporter of it

Imagine what would happen if, after the OCA buff, they'd buff every other SMG to compete instead of pulling the buff back a little. Things would get out of hand real fast!

That's not to say buffs should completely be off the table (NORSEMEN ANYONE???) , but if most other guns' problem is *one* of them being better, the decision becomes much easier imo

[Arrowtotheknee 7]

Couldn't the same thing be said about nerfing? First it's going to be lets nerf this one gun that is completely fine. Then lets nerf this gun because now that the other one got nerfed, this one is now too strong. Then since nerfing things is so common, lets just make everything so weak that the games average ttk drops from 0.7 average to something like 1.5 seconds. Now you have a game where players can't make plays because since the ttk is so long, groups always stick together and all shoot one player at a time to wipe the enemy team. This is a slippery slope argument but it can happen. A low ttk helps players to be vigilant , be smart in how they approach objectives and areas and a player can actually do a nice clutch to save the round/match. A high ttk is much more forgiving, it would push players to use explosives much more often than they already do because it can either one shot or cut their ttk time by half and a player would have trouble by clutching because everyone is a bullet sponge.

[Nitronik 348]

At that point you still have one outlier though just in the opposite direction. ARs are decently balanced amongst themselves so this situation isn't likely to pop up

[Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 269]

28 minutes ago, Arrowtotheknee said:

its more the latter, thus why im for buffing guns that aren't used very often and giving them a place in the meta. 

I want you to notice how the single person to comment on the oca changes mentioned a competitor: the pmg. In this case, it's the others gun in the same class performing poorly compared to these two/not being easily availible for comparison. Now I want you to notice how out of all the people to mention the ntec, how not one mentioned a competitor in the same class. You where the closest to doing so, by saying the star is fine as it is, but that was even after someone else brought it up for a different reason. See where I'm going with this?

[vsb 6171]

11 minutes ago, Arrowtotheknee said:

Couldn't the same thing be said about nerfing? First it's going to be lets nerf this one gun that is completely fine. Then lets nerf this gun because now that the other one got nerfed, this one is now too strong. Then since nerfing things is so common, lets just make everything so weak that the games average ttk drops from 0.7 average to something like 1.5 seconds. Now you have a game where players can't make plays because since the ttk is so long, groups always stick together and all shoot one player at a time to wipe the enemy team. This is a slippery slope argument but it can happen. A low ttk helps players to be vigilant , be smart in how they approach objectives and areas and a player can actually do a nice clutch to save the round/match. A high ttk is much more forgiving, it would push players to use explosives much more often than they already do because it can either one shot or cut their ttk time by half and a player would have trouble by clutching because everyone is a bullet sponge.

i'd be more concerned about guns becoming more and more similar when it comes to power creep 

want to buff the star so it competes with the ntec? increase accuracy recovery
now the ntec is falling behind in cqc? increase the base hipfire accuracy

and so on, and eventually everyone is playing with the same guns and the game is boring as hell

while all the things youve said about nerfing are true, reverse power creep would allow for guns with far different playstyles to remain valid options

[neophobia 216]

to be fair, playing ntec requires a fairly high



bottom text

[Nitronik 348]

6 minutes ago, neophobia said:

to be fair, playing ntec requires a fairly high



bottom text

I love you

[Flaws 1033]

1 hour ago, Nitronik said:

1 hour ago, Flaws said:

I'm not overplaying anything. N-TEC does require a lot more things to control compared to anything else that is considered meta (Miser and COBR-A have no place in the meta currently).
 

Let's assume I were to agree. What does a 0.02ttk increase change?

I'm more on about the jumping accuracy. If you take that away as well, just like Improved Rifling was taken away from it, why would you play N-TEC over the Obeya for example?

The N-TEC is good at many things, if the skill required is met by the player, but all other weapons exceed in what the N-TEC does. (Assuming we have two equally good players.) If someone just isn't good enough to beat an N-TEC in CQC with an OCA, then that's entirely down to their skill. Not the weapons. (As an example.)

[DouglasFalcon 125]

4 hours ago, Flaws said:

The new N-TEC changes are terrible and I hope they realise that. There is no need to nerf one of the most complex weapons to use in the game (compared to basically everything else in the game that is considered meta). The N-TEC has the most complexity of them all. Reducing what you can do once you master it is a bad move.

EDIT: The N-TEC 5 requires control of many things while almost every other weapon in the game lets you get off with only keeping track of one thing. N-TEC combines tracking, fire rate control (handling bloom depending on range), recoil control and movement + having to be aimed down the sights 90% of the time.

Most other weapons in the game either have no real recoil, no actual bloom, can be used without aiming down the sights at similar ranges as the N-TEC *cough* OSCAR *cough*.
I don't think it's the N-TEC that needs to be looked at but things like how the PMG can be used as a sniper rifle sometimes and how stupidly overpowered the OSCAR is in it's range category.

And as far as jump shooting with the N-TEC goes, I do not see why that should be nerfed. It's already balanced well enough considering the fact that once you jump, you are stuck in a specific arc that your character follows as they fall down to the ground. It's not like we can easily manoeuvre left and right mid-air. The jump shooting is useful to those who can do it correctly and have good enough aim. I don't see the point of nerfing that whatsoever.

Wow talking about shit opinions from good players

[Flaws 1033]

1 minute ago, DouglasFalcon said:

4 hours ago, Flaws said:

The new N-TEC changes are terrible and I hope they realise that. There is no need to nerf one of the most complex weapons to use in the game (compared to basically everything else in the game that is considered meta). The N-TEC has the most complexity of them all. Reducing what you can do once you master it is a bad move.

EDIT: The N-TEC 5 requires control of many things while almost every other weapon in the game lets you get off with only keeping track of one thing. N-TEC combines tracking, fire rate control (handling bloom depending on range), recoil control and movement + having to be aimed down the sights 90% of the time.

Most other weapons in the game either have no real recoil, no actual bloom, can be used without aiming down the sights at similar ranges as the N-TEC *cough* OSCAR *cough*.
I don't think it's the N-TEC that needs to be looked at but things like how the PMG can be used as a sniper rifle sometimes and how stupidly overpowered the OSCAR is in it's range category.

And as far as jump shooting with the N-TEC goes, I do not see why that should be nerfed. It's already balanced well enough considering the fact that once you jump, you are stuck in a specific arc that your character follows as they fall down to the ground. It's not like we can easily manoeuvre left and right mid-air. The jump shooting is useful to those who can do it correctly and have good enough aim. I don't see the point of nerfing that whatsoever.

Wow talking about shit opinions from good players

Care to elaborate?

[Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 269]

50 minutes ago, Flaws said:

I'm more on about the jumping accuracy. If you take that away as well, just like Improved Rifling was taken away from it, why would you play N-TEC over the Obeya for example?

The N-TEC is good at many things, if the skill required is met by the player, but all other weapons exceed in what the N-TEC does. (Assuming we have two equally good players.) If someone just isn't good enough to beat an N-TEC in CQC with an OCA, then that's entirely down to their skill. Not the weapons. (As an example.)

So let me get this straight. By nerfing one feature on a gun (we'll ignore the other changes for now) it becomes utter shit, despite performing the exact same? Cause that's the message I'm getting

[Flaws 1033]

Just now, Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 said:

56 minutes ago, Flaws said:

I'm more on about the jumping accuracy. If you take that away as well, just like Improved Rifling was taken away from it, why would you play N-TEC over the Obeya for example?

The N-TEC is good at many things, if the skill required is met by the player, but all other weapons exceed in what the N-TEC does. (Assuming we have two equally good players.) If someone just isn't good enough to beat an N-TEC in CQC with an OCA, then that's entirely down to their skill. Not the weapons. (As an example.)

So let me get this straight. By nerfing one feature on a gun (we'll ignore the other changes for now) it becomes utter shit, despite performing the exact same? Cause that's the message I'm getting

A lot of good players already main the Obeya rifle due to the changes to the IR mod and how it affects the N-TEC. If you get rid of the jumping accuracy, you'd have to always reach for your secondary in CQC which you already do when using the Obeya. Except, the Obeya has better range without suffering from lower fire rate. So.. why use an N-TEC?

Then again, you could also play OSCAR for mid-range. It has higher mobility and it will beat an N-TEC at an optimal range.

[Fortune Runner 796]

A few months ago on the forums it was posted how making the guns more diverse rather than packed together they way they are now would be good so that not every gun feels the same.

To me it looks like this is what Little Orbit is aiming for.

Honestly it sounds good to me. Too many guns have been all around rather than better in certain situations.

[CookiePuss 5378]

3 minutes ago, Fortune Runner said:

A few months ago on the forums it was posted how making the guns more diverse rather than packed together they way they are now would be good so that not every gun feels the same.

To me it looks like this is what Little Orbit is aiming for.

Honestly it sounds good to me. Too many guns have been all around rather than better in certain situations.

Bruh we are discussing specifics here.
The devil is in the details and all that.
 

[Nitronik 348]

1 hour ago, Flaws said:

I'm more on about the jumping accuracy. If you take that away as well, just like Improved Rifling was taken away from it, why would you play N-TEC over the Obeya for example?

The N-TEC is good at many things, if the skill required is met by the player, but all other weapons exceed in what the N-TEC does. (Assuming we have two equally good players.) If someone just isn't good enough to beat an N-TEC in CQC with an OCA, then that's entirely down to their skill. Not the weapons. (As an example.)

Glad you added the "as an example" addendum, I was about to gloat at how someone had to resort to calling others bad...

The NTEC is full auto, has a better TTK, and it's much easier to MinTTK people with it than with the obeya IMO.  You usually want to slap HS on an NTEC to get the most out of it but don't discount hipfire spraying, which the Obeya is simply bad at doing

That said it's kinda an open secret that every edgy boy will switch to the CR762 come the nerf

[Flaws 1033]

5 minutes ago, Nitronik said:

Glad you added the "as an example" addendum, I was about to gloat at how someone had to resort to calling others bad...

The NTEC is full auto, has a better TTK, and it's much easier to MinTTK people with it than with the obeya IMO.  You usually want to slap HS on an NTEC to get the most out of it but don't discount hipfire spraying, which the Obeya is simply bad at doing

That said it's kinda an open secret that every edgy boy will switch to the CR762 come the nerf

Sure, the N-TEC kills faster but in a team (which is how most good players usually play), they'd rather take the Obeya due to the range capabilities. Hipfire spraying with the N-TEC isn't usually a good idea against any good players, especially if they are weilding a hipfire weapon like an OCA lol

You could crouch with the N-TEC and hipfire spray at a moving target but that's the only option you've got there. No more flexibility if the jump accuracy is reduced further from what it is now. Edited October 2, 2018 by Flaws

[Nitronik 348]

2 minutes ago, Flaws said:

7 minutes ago, Nitronik said:

Glad you added the "as an example" addendum, I was about to gloat at how someone had to resort to calling others bad...

The NTEC is full auto, has a better TTK, and it's much easier to MinTTK people with it than with the obeya IMO.  You usually want to slap HS on an NTEC to get the most out of it but don't discount hipfire spraying, which the Obeya is simply bad at doing

That said it's kinda an open secret that every edgy boy will switch to the CR762 come the nerf

Sure, the N-TEC kills faster but in a team (which is how most good players usually play), they'd rather take the Obeya due to the range capabilities. Hipfire spraying with the N-TEC isn't usually a good idea against any good players, especially if they are weilding a hipfire weapon like an OCA lol

Why would I ever let an OCA sneak up on me if I have people watching my flanks?

Counter Edit : why would the NTEC ever have the upper hand over a dedicated CQC weapon? Wasn't it you saying a couple posts ago that jumping makes you an easily tracked target? This is the kinda situation where jumpshots are a bad idea Edited October 2, 2018 by Nitronik