Asking Little Orbit to clarify an uniform question.

[DivineLiberty 10]

On ‎5‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 12:58 PM, Mr Derp said:

 

There is absolutely no other reason to be creating Nazi uniforms in a cops and robbers game than to be a douche. 

 

If you're going to be a douche, be a man and admit it. Why not just be honest and up front that you want to offend people but want to make sure you won't be punished for doing it?

He never once claimed to support any of them. He is doing it for the same reason enforcers make police cars and police uniforms, because uniforms look awesome. Although you can push the offensive boundary, in general, when someone is mildly offensive, nobody cares about anyone's opinion.

 

#politically-incorrect-social-justice-warrior

Edited May 29, 2018 by Stefanobut

[Spheri 66]

22 minutes ago, Mr Derp said:

Because normal rational adults want to parade around in a cops and robbers video game in a Nazi uniform and not actually offend people because it fits the theme of the game? Of course it is about offending people. Just like the people with the shit, blood and cum stains on their characters through tattoos and clothing. 

 

You're a dimwit if you think otherwise.

How the hell do you offend people with blood and cum stains on your body/clothes ? I feel like you just take offense to everything that's not to your standards. Which is unfortunately YOUR problem.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Spherii

[Flylow 8]

19 hours ago, BrightNightLight said:

We contacted Matt Scott himself, and he had this to say:
 

There you have it. The uniform itself is fine, as long as it doesn't bear symbols that represent hateful ideologies.

Ok cool, it stays exactly how it was with G1. I remember making a nazi uniform without the swastika years ago and had no issues then, good to know I won't have any now.

 

9 hours ago, AbuMohammad said:

Ok, thank you guys, time for a new costume set!

Wow these look sick, way better than the ones I had made lol.

[SelttikS 224]

Obviously need a ... hood added as well, because that's not a symbol either and who doesn't want to RP as a racist shit bag!

[AbuMohammad 104]

33 minutes ago, Mr Derp said:

Because normal rational adults want to parade around in a cops and robbers video game in a Nazi uniform and not actually offend people because it fits the theme of the game? Of course it is about offending people. Just like the people with the shit, blood and cum stains on their characters through tattoos and clothing. 

 

You're a dimwit if you think otherwise.

I think this guy can be offended even with a crying baby. Anyway, if the uniform is accepted by CEO and most part of community, it should be made. Thanks everyone for your support!

[RedStickAdam 19]

11 hours ago, AbuMohammad said:

Ok, thank you guys, time for a new costume set!

Planning to sell any of these? If so, Jericho? And how much?

[AbuMohammad 104]

26 minutes ago, Niedosik said:

Planning to sell any of these? If so, Jericho? And how much?

Sorry friend, i'm on Nekrova. But if LO will actually review bans for code redeeming it can be on citadel some times

[TheOppositePolarBear 93]

4 hours ago, Mr Derp said:

Because normal rational adults want to parade around in a cops and robbers video game in a Nazi uniform and not actually offend people because it fits the theme of the game? Of course it is about offending people. Just like the people with the shit, blood and cum stains on their characters through tattoos and clothing. 

 

You're a dimwit if you think otherwise.

 

we could also call you "dimwit" just because you refuse to see our point of view, you know? not everybody is out to offend you, once again, some people just like the uniforms and weapons. why do you think the CAP-40 looks like it looks? because some people likes the WW2 german weapon aesthetics, otherwise it would look like any other SMG.

 

once again, if cant not offend. anything you do, will offend someone. as i said, even stuff you thought there was no way they would offend someone, will.

 

also, if blood stains offend you, you have problems, as stated by @Obvious Lesbian

 

 

 

[Mr Derp 8]

22 hours ago, Stefanobut said:

He never once claimed to support any of them. He is doing it for the same reason enforcers make police cars and police uniforms, because uniforms look awesome. Although you can push the offensive boundary, in general, when someone is mildly offensive, nobody cares about anyone's opinion.

 

#politically-incorrect-social-justice-warrior

Hurr durr. Are you seriously comparing someone creating police uniforms in a cops and robbers game to someone creating Nazi uniforms in a cops and robbers game?

 

[Mr Derp 8]

21 hours ago, TheOppositePolarBear said:

 

we could also call you "dimwit" just because you refuse to see our point of view, you know? not everybody is out to offend you, once again, some people just like the uniforms and weapons. why do you think the CAP-40 looks like it looks? because some people likes the WW2 german weapon aesthetics, otherwise it would look like any other SMG.

 

once again, if cant not offend. anything you do, will offend someone. as i said, even stuff you thought there was no way they would offend someone, will.

 

also, if blood stains offend you, you have problems, as stated by @Obvious Lesbian

 

 

 

 

 

If you're too amazing to understand the difference between a weapon created in a game and a Nazi uniform and what it represents there is no point in continuing this conversation. 

 

I won't even bother responding to the blood stains comment, since your simple mind completely missed the rest of the words in the sentence.

 

[BrandonBranderson 672]

8 minutes ago, Mr Derp said:

 

If you're too stupid to understand the difference between a weapon created in a game and a Nazi uniform and what it represents there is no point in continuing this conversation. 

 

I won't even bother responding to the blood stains comment, since your simple mind completely missed the rest of the words in the sentence.

 

Well... the uniform itself doesn't really represent anything.  Just like a bedsheet doesn't become racist until you put a cone on your head.  If anything it's the symbols used on it such as the swastika.  Despite how horrible the nazis were you can't deny they had style and that's why people like their uniforms.  They just looked good.

[SelttikS 224]

4 minutes ago, BrandonBranderson said:

Well... the uniform itself doesn't really represent anything.  Just like a bedsheet doesn't become racist until you put a cone on your head.  If anything it's the symbols used on it such as the swastika.  Despite how horrible the nazis were you can't deny they had style and that's why people like their uniforms.  They just looked good.

False the SS "Schutzstaffel" Uniform very much represents something. By your Logic that KKK hood doesn't represent anything either.  And yes I can deny them having any style and it is only certain types of "people" that like them. Because they just look like Racist Nazi members.

 

Maybe people should do more than a google Image search when researching what they decide to wear and toss around in peoples faces.

[BrandonBranderson 672]

39 minutes ago, SelttikS said:

By your Logic that KKK hood doesn't represent anything either.

 

49 minutes ago, BrandonBranderson said:

 a bedsheet doesn't become racist until you put a cone on your head.

By this I meant the uniform doesn't have meaning until the swastika or other Third Reich symbols are put onto it.

 

And yes, style is subjective I'll give you that, however my point is people wear what they think looks cool.  For the most part, we don't care if you don't like our clothing.  We wear it because we like seeing it on our characters and think it looks good.  Most of em are not out to offend anyone so if they get offended then that's on them.  Personally I don't wear any uniforms or anything other than a police outfit on my crim character occasionally.  That doesn't imply that I think police shootings are good.  Don't just assume someone has bad intent behind their clothing unless they blatantly start spewing racism in chat or have the actual swastika on their clothes.

Edited May 30, 2018 by BrandonBranderson

[SelttikS 224]

6 minutes ago, BrandonBranderson said:

 

By this I meant the uniform doesn't have meaning until the swastika or other Third Reich symbols are put onto it.

 

And yes, style is subjective I'll give you that, however my point is people wear what they think looks cool.  For the most part, we don't care if you don't like our clothing.  We wear it because we like seeing it on our characters and think it looks good.  Most of em are not out to offend anyone so if they get offended then that's on them.  Personally I don't wear any uniforms or anything other than a police outfit occasionally.  Don't just assume someone has bad intent behind their clothing unless they blatantly start spewing racism in chat or have the actual swastika on their clothes.

 

But if that uniform was only used by a blatantly racist group doesn't that make it racist? Wearing the uniform of a group is showing support or belonging to that group, So yeah that makes it pretty racist. Also that SS uniform was deemed illegal in Germany as well, so yeah there you go.

Edited May 30, 2018 by SelttikS

[BrandonBranderson 672]

9 minutes ago, SelttikS said:

 

But if that uniform was only used by a blatantly racist group doesn't that make it racist? Wearing the uniform of a group is showing support or belonging to that group, So yeah that makes it pretty racist. Also that SS uniform was deemed illegal in Germany as well, so yeah there you go.

Not necessarily.  How hard is it to accept that some people just like the way it looks?  If I wear a police uniform, does that mean I am or consider myself a cop?  The uniform has symbols on it.  If there are no symbols on the uniform then who are you supporting?  In the context you're talking about those symbols would pretty much be advertisement.  If you don't include the offensive symbol then there's nothing being advertised or promoted.  Without the symbols it's just another 1940s styled military uniform.  Plenty of different countries military from the time had ones that looked similar.  Main difference being different symbols and color scheme depending on the country.

[SelttikS 224]

Just now, BrandonBranderson said:

Not necessarily.  How hard is it to accept that some people just like the way it looks?  If I wear a police uniform, does that mean I am or consider myself a cop?  The uniform has symbols on it.  If there are no symbols on the uniform then who are you supporting?  In the context you're talking about those symbols would pretty much be advertisement.  If you don't include the offensive symbol then there's nothing being advertised or promoted.  Without the symbols it's just another 1940s styled military uniform.  Plenty of different countries military from the time had ones that looked similar.  Main difference being different symbols and color scheme depending on the country.

I do not disagree with the idea of removing the Symbols that are part of a hate group making the uniform ok... well ok ish i guess. But Op has included several symbols that are from said hate group and that are illegal still.

Outside of that, sure wear a Black Jacket all you want.

 

Think this comes down to people wanting to decide where the hate group uniform they want to wear is ok enough for them to wear in public. How much of an out lash do you think would happen if they put in KKK hoods in game?

[TheOppositePolarBear 93]

1 hour ago, Mr Derp said:

 

If you're too stupid to understand the difference between a weapon created in a game and a Nazi uniform and what it represents there is no point in continuing this conversation. 

 

I won't even bother responding to the blood stains comment, since your simple mind completely missed the rest of the words in the sentence.

 

 

you resort to insults? i'll take that as "polarbear wins, i cant fight his logic". thank you.

 

btw, the weapon is also nazi, so the point stands.

 

[BrandonBranderson 672]

34 minutes ago, SelttikS said:

Think this comes down to people wanting to decide where the hate group uniform they want to wear is ok enough for them to wear in public. How much of an out lash do you think would happen if they put in KKK hoods in game?

Well if you want my honest opinion... That'd be a big backlash right there if enough people cared.  Thing is most people these days don't care.  But the ones that do care, care A LOT.  About anything intended to be offensive really.  The majority of us are just so numb to it all at this point because of games, tv, music, etc.  There's a vocal minority that does.  I mean the new Wolfenstein had a bit of a controversy over having KKK members and Nazis wearing swastikas down to 'Dolf himself being in the game.  But historical accuracy(lol) won and the game was only censored in Germany I believe.  Granted in Wolfenstein there's no customization and you're the one killing the nazis and racists, but still it was a very vocal minority that freaked out over all of that and boycotted, yet sales still thrived.  Wow I'm getting really off topic here.

 

  The difference between them putting KKK Hoods in APB and someone running around in a nazi uniform is that the hood would have to be an OFFICIAL release because you can't make that with what is available in game.  That nazi uniform can be pinned on the player for making it, but the company would be the target if they released the hood.  The possibility of being offended is the price you have to pay to play an online game with a heavy focus on customization.  Personally I think people just need to relax a little and the world will be a happier place.

Edited May 30, 2018 by BrandonBranderson

[TheOppositePolarBear 93]

47 minutes ago, SelttikS said:

I do not disagree with the idea of removing the Symbols that are part of a hate group making the uniform ok... well ok ish i guess. But Op has included several symbols that are from said hate group and that are illegal still.

Outside of that, sure wear a Black Jacket all you want.

 

Think this comes down to people wanting to decide where the hate group uniform they want to wear is ok enough for them to wear in public. How much of an out lash do you think would happen if they put in KKK hoods in game?

 

i want to know what symbols are illegal and in wich countries (no sarcasm - i really want to know)

 

also, about the "wear in public" thing, idk if your reasoning is sound in that one - i mean, its ok in apb to run arround naked in the streets.  ... in real life...not so much

 

ban all naked warriors?

[MrChan 337]

On 5/29/2018 at 1:13 AM, TheOppositePolarBear said:

oh sorry, i didnt knew you know every single apb player. what do you know about me tho? im curious.

I've been in this game 7 years, I think I have a good grasp on what the community is like. I'll qualify "all" into "most" if it makes you happy. But based on my estimation most people who want an SS or Wehrmacht uniform in APB want it to see how far they can push boundaries of socially acceptable behaviour and see how many people they can offend because they get off on that, not because they think it looks nice. If you're an exception, then good for you. But excuse me whist I view the general claim of "it's for the looks bro" with scepticism based on my experiences of APB players to date.

 

On 5/28/2018 at 11:19 PM, BXNNXD said:

kind of a simple way of looking at it tbh

 

do you think every person who wears a pair of Jordans likes michael jordan himself, or even likes basketball?

I'd consider a pair of Jordans a far less specific item than an SS or Wehrmacht uniform. You don't look like Michael Jordan or like a basketball player because you wear them. Most people would probably notice that they're a Nike shoe before they're a Jordan. Likewise, the act of selecting or buying a pair of Jordans is different to making an SS uniform in APB. You go to either a physical or online store and are presented with a selection. Not everything will be in your size. Even the stuff that is mightn't be comfortable, or it might have a reputation of being tat that'll fall apart. The Jordans might be you preferred option out of what's available rather than your ideal shoe.

 

Customising clothes in APB is much freer. You're not restricted by your own measurements (or your own gender), or the availability of items. You can have nearly anything if you have enough time and talent, or if you have enough money to pay someone with the time and talent. Yet with that freedom of choice, you pick something that associates you with with a regime that murdered millions of people? And is still idolised by racists today?

 

A couple of people in this very thread are still saying "Nazi uniform" despite the removal of swastikas, and in doing so sort of prove that the association still exists.

 

What I find telling is the attempts to de-fang this. "Look I removed the swastika, it's not a Nazi uniform anymore!!! It's just a generic army uniform now, isn't it pretty?". I'd actually respect "yeah it's offensive, but I want it and I place my desires above the sensibilities of everyone else. Tough." To me, it betrays an unwillingness to really take ownership of what you're presenting.

Edited May 30, 2018 by MrChan

[vsb 6171]

3 minutes ago, MrChan said:

I've been in this game 7 years, I think I have a good grasp on what the community is like. I'll qualify "all" into "most" if it makes you happy. But based on my estimation most people who want an SS or Wehrmacht uniform in APB want it to see how far they can push boundaries of socially acceptable behaviour and see how many people they can offend because they get off on that, not because they think it looks nice. If you're an exception, then good for you. But excuse me whist I view the general claim of "it's for the looks bro" with scepticism based on my experiences of APB players to date.

 

A couple of people in this very thread are still saying "Nazi uniform" despite the removal of swastikas, so to me it's kind of obvious what they want to present.

 

I'd consider a pair of Jordans a far less specific item than an SS or Wehrmacht uniform. You don't look like Michael Jordan or like a basketball player because you wear them. Most people would probably notice that they're a Nike shoe before they're a Jordan. Likewise, the act of selecting or buying a pair of Jordans is different to making an SS uniform in APB. You go to either a physical or online store and are presented with a selection. Not everything will be in your size. Even the stuff that is mightn't be comfortable, or it might have a reputation of being tat that'll fall apart. The Jordans might be you preferred option out of what's available rather than your ideal shoe.

 

Customising clothes in APB is much freer. You're not restricted by your own measurements (or your own gender), or the availability of items. You can have nearly anything if you have enough time and talent, or if you have enough money to pay someone with the time and talent. Yet with that freedom of choice, you pick something that associates you with with a regime that murdered millions of people? And is still idolised by racists today?

 

 

What I find telling is the attempts to de-fang this. "Look I removed the swastika, it's not a Nazi uniform anymore!!!". I'd actually respect for "yeah it's offensive, but I place my desires above the sensibilities of everyone else. Tough." To me, it betrays an unwillingness to really take ownership of what you're presenting.

if the analogy is too specific we can run it back a bit, why doesnt wearing running shoes make you a runner? why doesnt wearing skate shoes make you skater?

 

perhaps its because people would like to wear something they find visually appealing

 

the attempts at "de-fanging" only make it seem more legitimate to me, theyre recognizing that not everyone shares their opinions and are doing what they can to mitigate offensiveness - short of completely deleting the outfit obviously

if it was really a case of "yeah it's offensive, but I place my desires above the sensibilities of everyone else. Tough." then we'd see far more people arguing to leave the symbols on imo

[Mr Derp 8]

37 minutes ago, MrChan said:

I've been in this game 7 years, I think I have a good grasp on what the community is like. I'll qualify "all" into "most" if it makes you happy. But based on my estimation most people who want an SS or Wehrmacht uniform in APB want it to see how far they can push boundaries of socially acceptable behaviour and see how many people they can offend because they get off on that, not because they think it looks nice. If you're an exception, then good for you. But excuse me whist I view the general claim of "it's for the looks bro" with scepticism based on my experiences of APB players to date.

 

 

Stop it, you're making too much sense. It can't be because of pushing boundaries and offending people. It has to be because the uniforms were snazzy and people want to cosplay in cops and robbers games as a Nazi for historic purposes.

 

2 hours ago, TheOppositePolarBear said:

 

you resort to insults? i'll take that as "polarbear wins, i cant fight his logic". thank you.

 

btw, the weapon is also nazi, so the point stands.

 

 

Just stating facts. if you want to take your mental simplicity as a win, more power to you. Handi-capable and all that.

[TheOppositePolarBear 93]

41 minutes ago, Mr Derp said:

Stop it, you're making too much sense. It can't be because of pushing boundaries and offending people. It has to be because the uniforms were snazzy and people want to cosplay in cops and robbers games as a Nazi for historic purposes.

 

Just stating facts. if you want to take your mental simplicity as a win, more power to you. Handi-capable and all that.

 

"i am so perfect, i cant be wrong, so if somebody doesnt agree with me they must be idiots"

 

something like that is in your head right now, right? oh great holder of absolute truth

 

 

[SelttikS 224]

4 hours ago, TheOppositePolarBear said:

 

i want to know what symbols are illegal and in wich countries (no sarcasm - i really want to know)

 

also, about the "wear in public" thing, idk if your reasoning is sound in that one - i mean, its ok in apb to run arround naked in the streets.  ... in real life...not so much

 

ban all naked warriors?

Then google it? Far as the current topic I believe there several of the Nazi era symbols that are ban from common use in german under the criminal code section 86. The degree to which they are enforced vary of course but i do recall that upwards of 3 years in jail are included as punishment.

 

If you are actually interesting, and not just wanting to try and prove your point by lack of proof being proof, I am sure you can research this yourself instead of waiting for someone else to do it for you.

Here I can help a little with the first steps cause i like to help The collective Knowledge of the world

[TheOppositePolarBear 93]

1 hour ago, SelttikS said:

Then google it? Far as the current topic I believe there several of the Nazi era symbols that are ban from common use in german under the criminal code section 86. The degree to which they are enforced vary of course but i do recall that upwards of 3 years in jail are included as punishment.

 

If you are actually interesting, and not just wanting to try and prove your point by lack of proof being proof, I am sure you can research this yourself instead of waiting for someone else to do it for you.

Here I can help a little with the first steps cause i like to help The collective Knowledge of the world

 

the link you provided only talked about communist symbols - not really what we're discussing.

 

about the article 86, however, answers why we will never get to any kind of common ground in this discussion:

 

it depends on who you ask:

 

are OP's symbols nazi symbols? it depends. you cant say they are not based on, but they are also modified if you check, so... are they still nazi symbols? i guess the answer to that question doesnt really matters - what the german overlords thinks does - but i dont think any of those are reading the forum right now

 

on top of that, as far as i've checked, the article 86 also allows the use of such symbols in art. wheater or not what OP does is art, once again, depends on who you ask.

 

now, i'll be curious, lets say we change the armband colour to blue and change the Reichsadler for a badger. would you be ok with the same uniform with those changes?

 

edit: i also recalled, another little important thing about article 86, is what OP is doing propaganda or not? i guess you already know the answer, it depends on who you ask.

Edited May 31, 2018 by TheOppositePolarBear