Why does LO Hate the Thumper?

[a Pair of Socks 126]

Jesus Christ, what did LO do to this gun, holy shit it's useless now....

[Noob_Guardian 418]

They hit the Shredder hard too. Like, Thumper and shredder were fine as is, then all the shotgun reworks happened, and they are worse than they ever were before their buffs xD (that said shredder can still at least 3 shot in cqc, but it tends to take 4. which is still a long time, and at 20m takes 5-8 which is insane, cause you used to be 3-6 at 20-25m before the nerfs. Now it's like 5-10

 

I havent tried the CSG or JG since to figure out if they're even descent still lol but I think JG is still usable.

[a Pair of Socks 126]

Casually just shooting people eight fucking times and only doing 83 damage.  Amazing LO. Thanks.

Kinda sad the secondary .410 shotgun that was nerfed is still more powerful than a Legendary gun lmaooooo
Not to mention the broken patootie 45 has 1/4th the TTK of a gun dispersing 12gauage. Very balanced.

Edited March 2, 2023 by a Pair of Socks

[Yapopal 180]

THUMPER is really useless. In general, shotguns are very limited in use. They are useless in the open, but that's the way it should be. Shotguns are useful in tight spaces, but it's easier to use a submachine gun. Even secondary weapons can compete with shotguns. There is also some kind of blurring and unpredictability of damage. I think this is due to the physics of the shot, the game takes a long time to process information about the shot.

[Tiliam 1]

did they nerd the thumper or something?

[a Pair of Socks 126]

15 hours ago, Tiliam said:

did they nerd the thumper or something?

they did nerd the humper.

[JWar 14]

18 hours ago, a Pair of Socks said:

they did nerd the humper.

Hay, why dey nerd gunz? Gun nert ned nerds.

[Berkshire 39]

1 minute ago, JWar said:

Hay, why dey nerd gunz? Gun nert ned nerds.

Mmmmm.....

[Noob_Guardian 418]

On 3/2/2023 at 1:16 AM, Yapopal said:

THUMPER is really useless. In general, shotguns are very limited in use. They are useless in the open, but that's the way it should be. Shotguns are useful in tight spaces, but it's easier to use a submachine gun. Even secondary weapons can compete with shotguns. There is also some kind of blurring and unpredictability of damage. I think this is due to the physics of the shot, the game takes a long time to process information about the shot.

Shotguns were always wonkey, G1 and LO tried to adjust damage by fewer pellots hitting = max and such and it caused some brokenness, they undid some stuff with it, and some shotguns that were balanced went kaput. I think its the new system compared to pre-shotgun rework/1st shotgun rework stats. Granted, it is hard to balance such things, need to have shotguns be viabl, yet still give smgs a chance.

[cowhorseman 441]

I never understood the nerfs for shotguns. like the showstopper was out fo aweek a fun useable gun then they said "mmmm how about 50% less damage" and now it's useless

And the odd pellet sweeping makes them diffcult to use if your oppent is moving away from the spread due to the delay on it

[LilyRain 680]

It is all-around superior to JG. It kills faster (0.6s vs 0.65s), has the same base accuracy (8 cm at 10m), has tighter spread (125cm at 10m vs 150cm at 10m), has better mobility (sprint delay 0.45s vs 0.65s), faster reloads (0.5s vs 0.6s) and better damage dropoff range to help compensate for its red mod (15m vs 10m).

 

https://apbdb.com/items/Weapon_Shotgun_DOW_Slot2_ArmasJB

https://apbdb.com/items/Weapon_Shotgun_JG_Slot2

 

The niche is its mod. Much tighter spread but half the fire-rate. Marksmanning it is not the way. Just go CSG/Tas-20 at higher CQC-ranges (or drop down to being a PMG/OCA garbo-player).

[PingOVER9000 189]

31 minutes ago, cowhorseman said:

I never understood the nerfs for shotguns..

If I remind well (and I have a good memory..I guess?) the weapons changes was in big part a clue from the SPCT team, at that time, "matured" during their tests.

 

Of course a lot of people tried to put some reason about these the fact these changes have sent a lot of them directly in the useless chart, but in vain and after some time to a certain "passionate and lovely but stubborn proud of a  Ghost" I am still expeting to admit his mighty incompetence, but I have lost my friendly hopes  

 

Of course, it's not totally his/ their fault, it was asking too much asking the balance patch was perfect in everything at the first strike and LO dropped totally the interest for balacing the weapons/ game etc with the excuse of the new engine... that we have ever see and ofc dont giving these good souls to finish the work.

 

With this I conclude to share the flashback of mine..

 

Bye

[Uhtdred 240]

On 3/2/2023 at 11:52 AM, Tiliam said:

did they nerd the thumper or something?

it's one of the worse guns in apb right now, when in the past, used properly, was one of the best shotguns. Actually it was the second best shotgun after the NFAS (when it was the best gun in the game).

PD: Buff thumper please, I can't sell it because nobody wants to buy it....

 

Merged.

 

On 3/4/2023 at 3:10 AM, LilyRain said:

It is all-around superior to JG. It kills faster (0.6s vs 0.65s), has the same base accuracy (8 cm at 10m), has tighter spread (125cm at 10m vs 150cm at 10m), has better mobility (sprint delay 0.45s vs 0.65s), faster reloads (0.5s vs 0.6s) and better damage dropoff range to help compensate for its red mod (15m vs 10m).

 

https://apbdb.com/items/Weapon_Shotgun_DOW_Slot2_ArmasJB

https://apbdb.com/items/Weapon_Shotgun_JG_Slot2

 

The niche is its mod. Much tighter spread but half the fire-rate. Marksmanning it is not the way. Just go CSG/Tas-20 at higher CQC-ranges (or drop down to being a PMG/OCA garbo-player).

thumper is way worse than gun stats show. First, JG is a 2 shots to kill, thumper is a 3 shots to kill. Thumper accuracy is awful, sometimes I feel like I landed 6 perfect shots and enemy still didn't die. Thumper also isn't a regular shotgun, you can't corner camp with it like you would do with JG or CSG.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Uhtdred

[cowhorseman 441]

17 hours ago, PingOVER9000 said:

If I remind well (and I have a good memory..I guess?) the weapons changes was in big part a clue from the SPCT team, at that time, "matured" during their tests.

 

Of course a lot of people tried to put some reason about these the fact these changes have sent a lot of them directly in the useless chart, but in vain and after some time to a certain "passionate and lovely but stubborn proud of a  Ghost" I am still expeting to admit his mighty incompetence, but I have lost my friendly hopes  

 

Of course, it's not totally his/ their fault, it was asking too much asking the balance patch was perfect in everything at the first strike and LO dropped totally the interest for balacing the weapons/ game etc with the excuse of the new engine... that we have ever see and ofc dont giving these good souls to finish the work.

 

With this I conclude to share the flashback of mine..

 

Bye

they really did fuck up trying to "balance" guns in this game. i spend more time on the loading screen waiting to respawn becuase all the meta kills me before i can think and anything outside of it i look like a dumbass trying to use it

[PingOVER9000 189]

8 hours ago, cowhorseman said:

they really did fuck up trying to "balance" guns in this game. i spend more time on the loading screen waiting to respawn becuase all the meta kills me before i can think and anything outside of it i look like a dumbass trying to use it

Well... I guess for my my little experience any unfinished business and calling it good without hearing the opinion of your  precious ""friends"" or  ""customers"", the results were fucked up from the beginning.

 

But Then about car balancing, I guess we may tell SPCT team made a great work... overall 

 

 

 

[cowhorseman 441]

2 hours ago, PingOVER9000 said:

Well... I guess for my my little experience any unfinished business and calling it good without hearing the opinion of your  precious ""friends"" or  ""customers"", the results were fucked up from the beginning.

 

But Then about car balancing, I guess we may tell SPCT team made a great work... overall 

 

 

 

car balancing? you mean the sleds we drive around on that blow up for no reason and/or might clip into walls and kill us?

[LilyRain 680]

18 hours ago, Uhtdred said:

thumper is way worse than gun stats show. First, JG is a 2 shots to kill, thumper is a 3 shots to kill. Thumper accuracy is awful, sometimes I feel like I landed 6 perfect shots and enemy still didn't die. Thumper also isn't a regular shotgun, you can't corner camp with it like you would do with JG or CSG.

Unless the stats on APBDB are a lie (which they aren't), they are in fact the truth.

Thumper is more accurate than JG.

[Weaboos 89]

Yeah it's super useless, sold mine ages ago. May Lord have mercy on the poor soul who bought it.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Weaboos

[Uhtdred 240]

8 hours ago, LilyRain said:

Unless the stats on APBDB are a lie (which they aren't), they are in fact the truth.

Thumper is more accurate than JG.

if that was true, everyone would be using thumper since acording to you is better than JG and is one of cheapest guns in the game.

[ZoriaDunne 327]

They also hate Alig, that thing has worse accuracy than my granma.

[a Pair of Socks 126]

On 3/3/2023 at 8:10 PM, LilyRain said:

It is all-around superior to JG. It kills faster (0.6s vs 0.65s), has the same base accuracy (8 cm at 10m), has tighter spread (125cm at 10m vs 150cm at 10m), has better mobility (sprint delay 0.45s vs 0.65s), faster reloads (0.5s vs 0.6s) and better damage dropoff range to help compensate for its red mod (15m vs 10m).

 

https://apbdb.com/items/Weapon_Shotgun_DOW_Slot2_ArmasJB

https://apbdb.com/items/Weapon_Shotgun_JG_Slot2

 

The niche is its mod. Much tighter spread but half the fire-rate. Marksmanning it is not the way. Just go CSG/Tas-20 at higher CQC-ranges (or drop down to being a PMG/OCA garbo-player).

Love you Lily but quit being a stat nerd and actually equip it and use it ingame.  I have a clip saved where I shot a dude 12 fucking times at like maybe 13meters? and it only did 84 damage.  Yeah sure you can occasionally get a kill where youre on a corner and the opponent is completely oblivious to you and you pop off 3 shots POINT BLANK and that, and only then, is where the Thumper is remotely close to being a usable firearm in APB.    Legendary weapons dont HAVE TO BE GOD LIKE but FFS atleast viable for use at all.  Im so sick of only seeing the ntec and pmg and 45.   Honestly the 45 needs to be nerfed, hard, its so stupid that a pistol out TTKs SMG's and Shotguns in CQC and even AR's at range. Fuck, while we're at it, let's enforce perspective from lower resolutions so stretch res isnt viable anymore like Fortnite did.

[PingOVER9000 189]

12 hours ago, cowhorseman said:

car balancing? you mean the sleds we drive around on that blow up for no reason and/or might clip into walls and kill us?

Welp... there is a reason I reassumed with just "overall"...

Certainly it's a lot of better or at least a straight upgrade than the crap vanilla balance... ( I remind in the server for 2 days the cry of joy of me and several people for the Coywolf change... it was about f*cking time we were waiting for that and someone did it XD)

 

11 hours ago, LilyRain said:

Unless the stats on APBDB are a lie (which they aren't), they are in fact the truth.

Thumper is more accurate than JG.

it's more precise maybe (but I totally didnt ever feel it the difference in the good side) but that's not mandatory alone ...the shitty very tight pellet spread, slow rate of fire, such as hitboxes are in APB make it  one of the worst and unbalanced weapons in the game... it work very well if you play against players with 100+ms than yours but it's the same for all weapons.

 

OFC Thumper togheter with NFAS at the "1* balance patch" was busted offchart in CQC and I prefered it out of existence or close to the feature of 2* balance shotgun patch , but the actual state it was not the answer.

 

Short answer doesnt  matter what you wrote Thumper is still unrecovered sh*t.

 

On 3/2/2023 at 6:11 AM, Noob_Guardian said:

They hit the Shredder hard too. Like, Thumper and shredder were fine as is, then all the shotgun reworks happened, and they are worse than they ever were before their buffs xD (that said shredder can still at least 3 shot in cqc, but it tends to take 4. which is still a long time, and at 20m takes 5-8 which is insane, cause you used to be 3-6 at 20-25m before the nerfs. Now it's like 5-10

 

I havent tried the CSG or JG since to figure out if they're even descent still lol but I think JG is still usable.

This guy is probabily one of the few tell logical and good advices after all these ages, and it's still ignored.. a shame and deserve a beer for every good post like this one.

Edited March 5, 2023 by PingOVER9000

[LilyRain 680]

4 hours ago, Uhtdred said:

if that was true, everyone would be using thumper since acording to you is better than JG and is one of cheapest guns in the game.

No. The reason why you'd see more JGs than Thumpers is that there is no leasable contact-version of Thumper. If there was, you'd see more Thumpers than JGs.

 

But they'd both be relatively a rare sight still. As far as investing in weapons goes, it is better to go for something that is simply better than both. CSG (or the reskin, Tas-20) is objectively better. Moreover, why shotgun at all when many people like easy-mode options such as OCA 'Whisper' or defaulting to PMG? Yes... that's right, THAT's why people don't care about Thumper because literally 85% of APB can be played with those 2 disgusting weapons.

 

44 minutes ago, a Pair of Socks said:

Love you Lily but quit being a stat nerd and actually equip it and use it ingame.  I have a clip saved where I shot a dude 12 fucking times at like maybe 13meters? and it only did 84 damage.  Yeah sure you can occasionally get a kill where youre on a corner and the opponent is completely oblivious to you and you pop off 3 shots POINT BLANK and that, and only then, is where the Thumper is remotely close to being a usable firearm in APB.    Legendary weapons dont HAVE TO BE GOD LIKE but FFS atleast viable for use at all.  Im so sick of only seeing the ntec and pmg and 45.   Honestly the 45 needs to be nerfed, hard, its so stupid that a pistol out TTKs SMG's and Shotguns in CQC and even AR's at range. Fuck, while we're at it, let's enforce perspective from lower resolutions so stretch res isnt viable anymore like Fortnite did.

All I did say that Thumper is slightly more beastly than JG and you lose it. Point being if people are fine with JG then they should be fine with Thumper as well, because it is simply more accurate and has the potential to kill faster. It seems you interpreted that as shotguns shouldn't get improved at all, which I never said.

 

Bold of you to assume that I did not and no, stats DEFINE weapon roles in the game it would be stupid not to learn how to read them. Thumper and JG happen to be doing their assigned role quite well.

 

I would normally ask you to share the clip (which you should've already) but the problem is already apparent, "13 meters"... What made you think the weapon would function at full-lethality from that distance? Right, you didn't learn how to interpret spread values. Plus, what connection are you even trying to make? You speak as if JG can 2-shot at 13 meters. Newsflash: It CAN'T, not even with Improved Rifling 3. It takes 5 shots, FIVE. Perhaps it is you who should equip weapons and play around with them some more.

 

2 hours ago, PingOVER9000 said:

it's more precise maybe (but I totally didnt ever feel it the difference in the good side) but that's not mandatory alone ...the shitty very tight pellet spread, slow rate of fire, such as hitboxes are in APB make it  one of the worst and unbalanced weapons in the game... it work very well if you play against players with 100+ms than yours but it's the same for all weapons.

 

OFC Thumper togheter with NFAS at the "1* balance patch" was busted offchart in CQC and I prefered it out of existence or close to the feature of 2* balance shotgun patch , but the actual state it was not the answer.

 

Short answer doesnt  matter what you wrote Thumper is still unrecovered sh*t.

 

I agree with every thing but you have made two critical mistakes:

- Thumper doesn't have "slow rate of fire". 0.3s for a shotgun is not slow by any means whatsoever. It is literally almost identical to NFAS' (0.29s).

- While the shotgun patch that made shotguns broken powerful & the subsequent one cancelled that monstrosity indeed conditioned people into shotgunning with awful aim, what I said still stands. Thumper is more accurate than JG. If you guys understood that as Thumper is some magical weapon, that "sh*t" is on you.

[PingOVER9000 189]

16 hours ago, LilyRain said:

I agree with every thing but you have made two critical mistakes:

- Thumper doesn't have "slow rate of fire". 0.3s for a shotgun is not slow by any means whatsoever. It is literally almost identical to NFAS' (0.29s).

- While the shotgun patch that made shotguns broken powerful & the subsequent one cancelled that monstrosity indeed conditioned people into shotgunning with awful aim, what I said still stands. Thumper is more accurate than JG. If you guys understood that as Thumper is some magical weapon, that "sh*t" is on you.

it's slow if you add in the contest how the damage and how a Thumper it work,  shotgun have nuke but  relatively slow fire rate , without forget the damage is distribuited and calculated between the several pellets fired in one shot hitting the target.. in short it doesnt fire a direct total shot damage you have to hit with more pellets possible for being closer to the max damage.

 

Quote

You can be a very good player and have a good aim, but surely you will never and always hit a opponent with the 10/ 12 pellets fired per shot every time, neither with a triggerbot or cheat, for my experience against these sh*theads I am sure of it. 

 

about awful aim... the weapon for the tight spread and relatively "slow rate of fire" in CQC make me think and gave me the more satified perfomance, the best playstyle you have to play more close to one predicting, while always trying firing at the center of  where you opponents/hitboxes may moving, for the max damage spread during the fight otherwise you make a lot of shallow damage and that's the reason a lot of people, me include need usually 4 shots or more. 

 

short answer: That's honestly suck... I feeled like playing more closer to a sniper playstyle but in CQC battlefield, so it's not a matter of the player or bad aim, it's just the weapon is unbalanced and not suited in for CQC with the actual stats.

 

Possible resolations looking at The actual damage which consist of:

 

- Actually

1* Thumper, "ideal", damage shot= 35 base damage  x 12 pellets = 420 damage per health

 ideal kill shots= 3

 

Let's being more pratical and beneficial for players of a better aim with about a media of at least 7/8 pellets hitting the opponents.

 

1* Thumper, "pratical", damage shot= 35 damage x 8 pellets = 280 damage per health

1* Thumper total, ""pratical"", kill damage shot= 280 * 3 ideal kill shots  =  840 damage

 

So that's may explain why a Thumper user may tend to almost always need 4/5 or more  shots to kill a opponent... and so a longer TTK

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Maybe and possible (?) Resolation, Let's change it to slightly increasly the base damage from 35 to 40.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

1* Thumper, ""test"", damage shot= 40 damage x 8 pellets = 320 damage per health

 

1* Thumper total, ""test"",  kill damage shot= 320* 3 ideal kill shots  =  960 damage

 

My weak opinion:

Quote

 

Yep it's still doesnt kill with 3 shots, but we are a lot more closer to the total health damage, now if you have a good aim surely despite the tight spread pellets you are sure with 4 shots in close range you have killed you opponent or if you have a really good aim you are surely rewarded after 3 perfect shots with a kill.

 

Ofc I am not so sure or cocky to tell this is enough for balancing the weapon or it may make it broken, but it may worth a test... in  the far case we will ever see again a balancing (honestly I think, a 38 or 36 instead of 40 base damage per pellet, is more right but I am still of the idea a slighty base damage is it may be one or  the right way for balacing the weapon)

 

About some people with fetish for Kevlar, they may claim it may make it useless, but just face the reality, it's a joke of a mod, good for joking opponents not for competitive.

 

 

16 hours ago, LilyRain said:

No. The reason why you'd see more JGs than Thumpers is that there is no leasable contact-version of Thumper. If there was, you'd see more Thumpers than JGs.

Anybody with a little effort, it can buy it for 100/ 150k  or around in market/ trade.... you can do it or more that much in 1 game hour...

Anyway People in market will literally throw it to you if you want to buy one, Thumper is a worthless weapon compared to a lot of others.

 

Bye

Edited March 6, 2023 by PingOVER9000

[Noob_Guardian 418]

2 hours ago, PingOVER9000 said:

it's slow if you add in the contest how the damage and how a Thumper it work,  shotgun have nuke but  relatively slow fire rate , without forget the damage is distribuited and calculated between the several pellets fired in one shot hitting the target.. in short it doesnt fire a direct total shot damage you have to hit with more pellets possible for being closer to the max damage.

 

 

One thing I might suggest on thumper, which I used to do when using it, i dunno how well itll work now though, is do out of mm for 2-3 shots, then for the last "killing 3/4" shot, use marksman. The choke tighens and it should help finish off with a larger burst of damage. I know it should function as an NFAS in cqc, and then a psuedo jg/shredder in choke so you just want to spray, but since it has a wierd gimmick, it may be necessary to make use of the gimmic so it's not so bad. So if you think you're close to killing, that quick mm burst might be it.

 

That said, after some testing, it still feels bad to use, and don't touch it past like 7-10m, but the 2-3 shot then mm gimmick does tend to work.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Noob_Guardian