Explosive range of Frage Grenade

[Flaws 1033]

Nades need a nerf/revamp across the board anyway, they are way too efficent and define fights way too often instead of shooting your gun which should be the primary method of killing people. It is too easy to do and it's made the game extremely stale over the years. You don't really get such efficency from nades in any other shooter (one that attempts to be competitive on any level at least). They need to be good enough to push corners but not good enough to 1-shot people every single engagement just because you pressed the nade button. Honestly, even reducing nades to 1 (2 for low yields) is already a decent solution. The problem with a nade nerf is that it needs to come along with a car gameplay nerf so that things are kept in line (and they aren't even in line right now due to how tanky some cars can be).

[Iazer 204]

The issue isn't necessarily the range of the grenades, its players reliance on them. If you have the chance to throw splash damage at someone before firing at them for essentially a free kill then why not take it? It was similar when low yields were overpowered, you had 3 chances to throw splash damage at someone to deal quite a decent amount of damage. So whilst frags do now cater for that purpose you should just find a work around for that play style, there isn't really much you or LO could do to stop people relying on their splash damage.

[Resine 144]

3 hours ago, Uke said:

You can miss both nades by 5m and still kill the target, while with yields or percs you will barely scratch them (and concs obviously won't even hit).

 

^

There, try to argue that.

I am all into logical variations of any part of the game, grenades included.

The way I see it, we have:

 

Percussion Grenade - Low damage, Low range - without fuse which is its biggest advantage, or weakness - since you can't "cook" them to blow into opponents mid air.

 

Low-Yield Fragmentation Grenade - Low damage, Low range -  fast fuse time, you are awarded third grenade, that allows to still have an option where its needed most.

 

Concussion Grenade - High damage, Low range - absolutely beast when used by high skilled player, trash when used by lesser skilled players. Imho have a highest skill cap of all grenades.

 

Fragmentation grenade - High damage, High range grenade - don't you think it's kind of weird that it doesn't have any trade off it's just better option for lowly thrown grenades in spamable manner hoping to get lucky hit here and there. There is no point lowering its range since it will be just weak Conc, the propose I wanted to make is to lower it's damage to around 500-600 so we can have Low damage, High range grenade and then you could make your call - You feel you are good at cooking grenades go for Concs, you think you don't do well and miss a lot - go frags, but pay a price for that. Or use other alternatives.

 

I do understand negativity, especially from Silver community that rely on its High damage and forgivable range, that gives result, without effort but the thing I want to propose is basically to make every grenade unique in it's own way, not simply better or worse alternative and to make people actually aim their explosives, or be exposed to penalties if they absolutely need high splash damage area.

Edited May 12, 2020 by Resine

[MrChan 337]

2 hours ago, Uke said:

What don't you understand?

I understand fine, I just think you're wrong.

 

Frag grenades are not overpowered. I don't have a problem with their blast radius, and I don't experience this issue of people spamming them at me. Most top rank players I've seen use concussion grenades, presumably for AV purposes. I only find grenades in general overpowered if someone is near an ammo box and thus have unlimited supply, which doesn't happen that often.

 

"Frags are fine" is a valid argument. Surprisingly enough, some things don't actually require change.

Edited May 12, 2020 by MrChan

[Uke 101]

1 hour ago, 404 said:

frags are the default grenade type and as such need to fulfill a similar role as the star, an all purpose option

 

their wider radius allows new players to maybe still hit other new players despite poor mechanical skills...

Good point but I think if the easiest grenade is also the best grenade then some balance changes are overdue. It's a simple equation really, the easier to use something is the weaker it should be.

I don't think it would hurt new/low threat players much if frags were nerfed in either damage or range. Honestly most of them probably wouldn't even notice.

 

Concs require more skill but there's no much reason to use them since they don't deal that much more damage (does it really make a difference to you if someone is tagged by 750 or 990, he's fucked either way) but are much harder to hit, not to mention that you can't really damage multiple targets with them. Sure they are better against vehicles but with everyone driving around in vegases or one of the two tanks lately, they're just too weak.  

1 hour ago, 404 said:

...and lets veteran players use them as area denial tools against other veterans who know not to stand around for 10s and get killed by 2 frags

I mean that's kinda limited view of what actually happens in game. Just like you can change your position to avoid the nade so can a person throwing it change where they throw it.

1 hour ago, 404 said:

not really sure what else to say since frags have remained unchanged since release iirc, why are they suddenly a problem now?

They were always a problem imo but back in the day a lot more people were using concs. Now that both yields and concs were either directly or indirectly nerfed there's no good reason to use anything other than frags.

 

And they're just not fun.

It's annoying to die to a nade that exploded 5m away from you, and it's not satisfying to get a kill with it either because it's just too easy to hit with.

Edited May 12, 2020 by Uke

[Fortune Runner 796]

ill let you nerf frags if we can carry one more grenade each , and since some of those would be far worse to have one more , I doubt anyone sane would want that.

 

  nicht нет tsis muaj níl  Ne Nei  NO THANK YOU

[Resine 144]

10 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

ill let you nerf frags if we can carry one more grenade each , and since some of those would be far worse to have one more , I doubt anyone sane would want that.

 

  nicht нет tsis muaj níl  Ne Nei  NO THANK YOU

That's bold. I mean I would suggest to make - 1 to all grenades to make people actually think how they use it and when they use it but that's a discussion for difrent thread.

[sciaN 36]

19 hours ago, Uke said:

They were always a problem imo but back in the day a lot more people were using concs. Now that both yields and concs were either directly or indirectly nerfed there's no good reason to use anything other than frags

Sorry for being one of those boring people but i was wondering are you the same person that was maining low yields when they were op and now percs?

[Uke 101]

1 hour ago, sciaN said:

Sorry for being one of those boring people but i was wondering are you the same person that was maining low yields when they were op and now percs?

Hey I recognize you, aren't you the same person that is maining frags now that they're op?

 

Sure I used low yields a lot. I have an aggressive play style and with more nades, you can push more corners. Doesn't change the fact that I thought both them and frags had too big blast radius.

I'm happy they nerfed yields. Now do it to frags, they could've get their radius cut by 1-2m and still be very good.

And yes I used percs recently, they get really bad rep from silvers spamming them at their own feet but they're not as easy to use properly as you may think (and somehow frags got the rep of "pro nade" even thought they're the easiest granade in game to use, as if holding G for a few seconds was that hard). The fact that you can't cook them is an advantage but also a big disadvantage in some scenarios. Not to mention very slow travel time and low damage.

 

Either way, I don't think that what I use is relevant to my opinion about balance changes. It's not my job to try and balance the game by not using op things and hope that my opposition doesn't either. All I can do is state my opinion on the forum and hope LO will listen.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Uke

[sciaN 36]

10 minutes ago, Uke said:

Hey I recognize you, aren't you the same person that is maining frags now that they're op?

Actually been maining concusion grenades for like a year now but here i am not complaining abt grenades in this game since grenades are occasional and just fitted for specific playstyles.

[Uke 101]

23 minutes ago, sciaN said:

Actually been maining concusion grenades for like a year now

Well I don't actually remember which nades you had. My point was there was this huge hate for low yields even though they were never really that much stronger than frags if at all. But now that frags are dominating the nade game, no one really seems to care. They're not really considered as cheap or lame, but they should be.

  

24 minutes ago, sciaN said:

but here i am not complaining abt grenades in this game since grenades are occasional and just fitted for specific playstyles.

I wouldn't say they are occasional, with how much options of resupplying them you have, almost every fight starts or ends with throwing nades.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Uke

[sciaN 36]

11 minutes ago, Uke said:

Well I don't actually remember which nades you had. My point was there was this huge hate for low yields even though they were never really that much stronger than frags if at all. But now that frags are dominating the nade game, no one really seems to care. They're not really considered as cheap or lame, but they should be.

I think you've been playing a different game then since from what i remember 2 low yields could kill a player(you had and still have 3 of them)....and on top of that they were (and still are) faster on exploding and can be thrown further away.And you wonder why people didn't like them.Personally i don't like being airstriked

Edited May 13, 2020 by sciaN

[Uke 101]

Just now, sciaN said:

I think you've been playing a different game then since from what i remember 2 low yields could kill a player(you had and still have 3 of them)....and on top of that they were (and still are) faster on exploding and can be thrown further away

Yes but they always had lower damage and radius as well iirc which meant you had to be quite a lot more precise with them. A lot of frag users conveniently seem to forget that when complaining about yields.

[sciaN 36]

I see where this is going....I assume you want the old low yield stats to be brought back to balance the current nade issue which we apparently now have?

[Uke 101]

4 minutes ago, sciaN said:

I see where this is going....I assume you want the old low yield stats to be brought back to balance the current nade issue which we apparently now have?

Um no? Did you even read the thread? Hell, I even said in the post you quoted that I'm happy about the yield nerf.

  

15 minutes ago, sciaN said:

And you wonder why people didn't like them.Personally i don't like being airstriked

I never wondered why people didn't like yields. I wonder why people are ok with frags when they're basically the same thing, only 2 big ones instead of 3 small ones.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Uke

[HiLoSilver 9]

I watched someones video last night of a really good player that used frags. I was kinda surprised that he wasn't using concs, I get why now.

I have always used concs for cars, but now I;m going to play around with good ole frags again.

But my favorite is still the Brick, nothing more satisfying then getting a Brick kill.

 

 

[RED1015 0]

IMO they should just remove the ability disarm the nade by shoving it back in your pocket. Would make people actually think a little bit before pressing the grenade button.

[vsb 6171]

5 hours ago, sciaN said:

grenades in this game since grenades are occasional and just fitted for specific playstyles.

lol what, half the people in this game use their grenades more than their secondary

 

 

5 hours ago, Uke said:

Yes but they always had lower damage and radius as well iirc which meant you had to be quite a lot more precise with them. A lot of frag users conveniently seem to forget that when complaining about yields.

they had lower damage (still a 2 grenade kill tho) but the same radius as frags, with the lower fuse time, faster throw speed, and extra grenade they were pretty much a direct upgrade

[Uke 101]

1 hour ago, 404 said:

they had lower damage (still a 2 grenade kill tho) but the same radius as frags, with the lower fuse time, faster throw speed, and extra grenade they were pretty much a direct upgrade

All right but it still meant you had to be more precise to kill with 2. The area in which they dealt 500+ was smaller because of the damage drop off. Now they've been nerfed so hard that they're completely useless because of how strong frags are.

[Resine 144]

11 hours ago, 404 said:

lol what, half the people in this game use their grenades more than their secondary

 

 

The other half uses their nades more than tier primary.

 

Frags were always OP, but the reason it wasn't apparently obvious to most people was that we had low yields that were even more OP and we didn't have Vegas, tank meta so Concs were fun to use.

 

Due to to direct nerfs to alternatives and indirect nerfs caused by car game play. Frag is the way to go, with deadly damage and ridiculous blast range.

 

Instead of 3 small fast lowyields you have 2 Fat Frags dealing similar damage in full copacity but having double explosive range. How is that balanced?

[Mitne 724]

On 5/13/2020 at 4:38 PM, HiLoSilver said:

I watched someones video last night of a really good player that used frags. I was kinda surprised that he wasn't using concs, I get why now.

I have always used concs for cars, but now I;m going to play around with good ole frags again.

But my favorite is still the Brick, nothing more satisfying then getting a Brick kill.

 

Before low-yield nerfs, it was low-yields. After nerfs it's frags. And concussions can do very much damage even to player, problem is very short blast range which leads to you being forced to cook nade to second before explosion so target won't be able to just step out of where you thrown nade most of the time.

 

On 5/12/2020 at 5:14 PM, Resine said:

Concussion Grenade - High damage, Low range - absolutely beast when used by high skilled player, trash when used by lesser skilled players. Imho have a highest skill cap of all grenades. (Yeah, yeah sure.)

High damage, medium range ( https://apbdb.com/items/Weapon_Grenade_Concussion ) *

On 5/12/2020 at 5:14 PM, Resine said:

Fragmentation grenade - High damage, High range grenade - don't you think it's kind of weird that it doesn't have any trade off it's just better option for lowly thrown grenades in spamable manner hoping to get lucky hit here and there (Nade avaliable to everyone, enough said. All others are locked behind progression.). There is no point lowering its range since it will be just weak Conc, the propose I wanted to make is to lower it's damage to around 500-600 so we can have Low damage, High range grenade and then you could make your call (You will drop it usability to zero) - You feel you are good at cooking grenades go for Concs, you think you don't do well and miss a lot - go frags, but pay a price for that. (In terms of frag vs conc, all you trade-off is a bit of range. And you act like concussion is unpopular nade, something which is contrary to truth.) Or use other alternatives. (What other alternatives? XD)

Medium damage, high range ( https://apbdb.com/items/Weapon_Grenade_Frag ) *

 

Also gotta love how some what I assume are APB weekend players dislike any disagreeing opinion on frags (aka. against your glorious range nerf or any nerf toward frags).

Then there gonna be suprised pikachu face on every APB player face supporting certain nerf (after it's implementation) because you broke in-game balance. Low-yields were only nades breaking balance. Now they aren't. Nades (and frags) are fuckin balanced as of current, get over it.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Mitne

[WEISSDEATH 57]

Bet if frags got nerfed, People would go after percs then concs(which where already nerfed) and then stun grenades.
 

Stop hugging corners, learn to move and anticipate and nades won’t be an issue. 

[HiLoSilver 9]

leave it alone, there are bigger problems that are ignored. Still waiting for newbies to not get thrown into siver district for one.

[Nagletz 215]

How about to stop nerfing popular weapons and start buffing unpopular ones instead? Geez..

I hope LO won't nerf anything more before engine upgrade... 

[ElectroStingz 53]

They need to be more violent, when you take a hit the player needs to have limbs coming off, more blood and a little screaming would be nice as you are in the process of dying.

 

Also a sacrafice mod.

When enabled your player primes all expolsives and charges (nade in each hand) at the enemy with a 200%  health boost. In this time you can only run in a straightline and weapons disable.

Then boom, massive explosion, lots of blood and parts everywhere in the hope that you save the team or die knowing you went off with a bang.