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30 minutes ago, TheJellyGoo said:

And they will keep upvoting each other creating the delusion that they are correct and in the majority!

So, yes someone is delusional but it's not you.


You've played since 2011 and claim to be unaware of how significant of a subculture in cheating this small community has...
No offense but I'm not sure you're the right one to tell anyone if they're delusional or not:)
Out of curiosity, can I ask whats your ig name?

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42 minutes ago, Tigrix said:

 


You've played since 2011 and claim to be unaware of how significant of a subculture in cheating this small community has...
No offense but I'm not sure you're the right one to tell anyone if they're delusional or not:)
Out of curiosity, can I ask whats your ig name?

You're misinterpreting my "claim". I'm aware of a cheater subculture but how significant? My only estimate to that is less than all those threads make out to be.

My actual claim is that people like you that have a self-proclaimed good eye and the skills to be able to distinguish between good veterans and cheaters are overestimating yourself.

So instead of supporting your position it has the opposite effect and renders your statement wrong because being wrong in at least one case makes any other accusation unbelievable too.

Because like I said, you're both known to accuse legit veterans yet here I am still playing vanilla (not even advanced launcher) since 2011 through every iteration of cheater eras.

 

Sure, I've never hidden behind anonymity (my main was always signed in my signature).
Shinto (crim), Nanmin (enf)

Edited by TheJellyGoo

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1 hour ago, TheJellyGoo said:

You're misinterpreting my "claim". I'm aware of a cheater subculture but how significant? My only estimate to that is less than all those threads make out to be.

My actual claim is that people like you that have a self-proclaimed good eye and the skills to be able to distinguish between good veterans and cheaters are overestimating yourself.

So instead of supporting your position it has the opposite effect and renders your statement wrong because being wrong in at least one case makes any other accusation unbelievable too.

Because like I said, you're both known to accuse legit veterans yet here I am still playing vanilla (not even advanced launcher) since 2011 through every iteration of cheater eras.

 

Sure, I've never hidden behind anonymity (my main was always signed in my signature).
Shinto (crim), Nanmin (enf)


I've also made videos that helped nailing some crews who believed they were untouchable:)
Maybe you recall a video I made involving a certain FC clan leader plus 2 of his officers:) Funnily, they had been playing years untouched, even cracking jokes at being untouchable by FF and all of them 255'ers of course, yet the day after the video gained some traction on these forums, it turned out they weren't so untouchable and suddenly I had a lot of "anonymous" hate from certain a group. This ain't a brag, just a remark that it's silly to claim that if 1 person ever makes a false accusation, it means they cannot ever accuse anyone. It's not up to me personally to ban someone, it's up to the video evidence and/or the anti-cheat and/or the person at the other end reviewing my video.

I don't claim to be perfect at spotting every cheater, but like the OP wrote and as several has followed up on - there are some tell-tale signs and they do stand out more easily in this small community APB has become (and judging from seeing the activity at the APB cheat forums, the cheaters aren't the ones quitting the game.... the casuals and average/regular players are the ones getting fed up and having quit).

This leaves the game with an abundance of a certain plagued subculture, especially in relation to how small the overall population is.
Sticking your head in the sand and claiming everyone is "just making a fuss and creating a problem that isn't there", isn't helping.

If you truly believed you're in the right, then I assume your first priority would be to not bump and partake in the so called: "many abundant and disillusioned posts about cheaters".

Ty for ig names, I was just curious how active you are as I honestly can't recall having seen you around in missions. I go under the same name as here.

 

Edited by Tigrix

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10 minutes ago, Tigrix said:


I've also made videos that helped nailing some crews who believed they were untouchable:)
Maybe you recall a video I made involving a certain FC clan leader plus 2 of his officers:) Funnily, they had been playing years untouched, even cracking jokes at being untouchable by FF and all of them 255'ers of course, yet the day after the video gained some traction on these forums, it turned out they weren't so untouchable and suddenly I had a lot of "anonymous" hate from certain a group. This ain't a brag, just a remark that it's silly to claim that if 1 person ever makes a false accusation, it means they cannot ever accuse anyone. It's not up to me personally to ban someone, it's up to the video evidence and/or the anti-cheat and/or the person at the other end reviewing my video.

I don't claim to be perfect at spotting every cheater, but like the OP wrote and as several has followed up on - there are some tell-tale signs and they do stand out more easily in this small community APB has become (and judging from seeing the activity at the APB cheat forums, the cheaters aren't the ones quitting the game.... the casuals and average/regular players are the ones getting fed up and having quit).

This leaves the game with an abundance of a certain plagued subculture, especially in relation to how small the overall population is.
Sticking your head in the sand and claiming everyone is "just making a fuss and creating a problem that isn't there", isn't helping.

If you truly believed you're in the right, then I assume your first priority would be to not bump and partake in the so called: "many abundant and disillusioned posts about cheaters".

Ty for ig names, I was just curious how active you are as I honestly can't recall having seen you around in missions. I go under the same name as here.

 

Sure you can further accuse people but like I said I just cannot believe into the validity of them from that point on.

Also not saying that you're never correct, in fact with the criticized loose throw around of those accusations, it is obviously going to be correct sometimes.

The issue is that the wrong accusations have a far larger impact on the credibility than the convicted ones.

 

You mentioned that the casuals and average players tend to leave which leaves the cheaters AND the veterans thus further increasing the chances of meeting both parties (not just cheaters).

Taking into consideration that the majority of cheaters actually still lose to those groups it is not a far fetch to believe even more so that false accusations are bound to happen more frequently.

 

I will say it's not minor but blowing the whole "plagued subculture" out of proportion doesn't help either. It just stirs the paranoia.

Just because a bunch of people keep posting those threads still doesn't make them any more valid. Last time I checked the weight of an argument isn't in it's quantity but quality.

 

If I (or like minded people) stop posting to oppose these threads then what is left are the people believing in it.

Surely exceeding prior accusations and supporting each other in their believes will have great yields. No, I prefer to partake and point out exaggerations where due.

 

Don't remember having played you in a long while. So fair enough if you managed to change but from what I remember I cannot take your accusations serious, sorry.

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3 hours ago, TheJellyGoo said:

Sure you can further accuse people but like I said I just cannot believe into the validity of them from that point on.

Also not saying that you're never correct, in fact with the criticized loose throw around of those accusations, it is obviously going to be correct sometimes.

The issue is that the wrong accusations have a far larger impact on the credibility than the convicted ones.

And why is that? do you take it badly if a stranger accuses you disagree with or know to be false? If someone says in /d "shin is a cheater!" does that taint your name or do you think each person seeing that

text is able to think for themselves that someone yelling that in /d doesn't necessarily make it true?

How does it ruin your name or anyone in the video's name that each player make up their own mind what they think of the player(s) they're seeing a clip of?
Imo there's a big difference in posting a clip from the game and asking people what do ya'll think? and then posting clips and saying "WATCH THIS BLATANT CHEATER!!!".
One is an accusation with a clip, not to the person itself, but to everyone else to try and ruin him/her. The other is literally a clip from the game that took place with no accusation aside what the material itself shows and if it took place then why should it be censored? as if people themselves can't and must not be allowed to decide what they think of the clip? I really don't see facts ruining anyone.
If someone posted a clip of Tigrix (and yes, i've been accused many times) - if I saw a clip with a msg: "watch this cheater!!" i'd just smile and know I'm fine, since i'm legit and thus won't get picked

up by EAC or an admin reviewing me. (yeah, I trust they'll do their job and review if they find it necessary)

 

You mentioned that the casuals and average players tend to leave which leaves the cheaters AND the veterans thus further increasing the chances of meeting both parties (not just cheaters).

Taking into consideration that the majority of cheaters actually still lose to those groups it is not a far fetch to believe even more so that false accusations are bound to happen more frequently.


Idk from what or where you pull the stats that most cheaters lose vs veterans etc, but i'll pass on that as it highly depends on the cheater and how far they push their settings.
(closet cheating is extremely hard to detect for obvious reasons). But I must disagree that veterans stay behind in the game, they really don't. Majority of everyone I knew playing APB 3 years ago,

no longer plays the game. Mostly due to 2 factors: content drought and cheaters galore. But among new players and anyone starting APB within last year or 2, yes I do believe that most casuals quickly leave the game again, because simply there's so many things that demotivate a new player (Many of the same things that drove the veterans away, plus bronze districts being an absolute sh**itfest of dethreating edgelords farming newbies). Someone who even bothers to cheat however, is unlikely to leave the game imo, until forced/banned or no-one left to cheat against. That's my personal opinion, based on someone even going through the trouble of cheating in the first place.
 

I will say it's not minor but blowing the whole "plagued subculture" out of proportion doesn't help either. It just stirs the paranoia.

Just because a bunch of people keep posting those threads still doesn't make them any more valid. Last time I checked the weight of an argument isn't in it's quantity but quality.

If I (or like minded people) stop posting to oppose these threads then what is left are the people believing in it.

Surely exceeding prior accusations and supporting each other in their believes will have great yields. No, I prefer to partake and point out exaggerations where due.


I think it's a little late for paranoia concerns:) I also think people will discuss on the APB forum, whatever is on their mind from playing the game. 
If you see a lot of threads about cheaters, well... perhaps you should respect that there's a lot of people disagreeing with you on your lax view of the % of population they occupy in this quite tiny community. I mean, it makes me vomit to even see that theres like 6 replies all today, to an aimbot post at that "other forum" thanking the poster and saying it works... 

We're barely filling 1 fin district and half a WF district (referring to gold threat)... and if 6-10 kids run around with a triggerbot or w/e, when barely we can fill 1-2 districts, yes it's gonna be felt by us still actively playing. And those are obviously extremely conservative numbers, as 6 replies in 1 thread don't represent number of people having DL'ed files, when the thread maybe has 200+ views, and this is only one site, one forum, one example. Point is, in our tiny community, it's extremely devastating that some players can't manage to play legit, year after year after year.  And sadly, with how un-moderated this game was left for many years, that part of our community has really grown extremely resilient.

And unless our community itself starts dealing with their "friends" whom some have an inkling might not be playing "totally fair", then nothing is gonna change. We can't rely merely on EAC. It has to come also from the community itself, from people changing their view on cheating and being against having any association with current or ex cheaters, so that some of these hardcore ppl with 7y accounts on cheat forums ain't got clans and buddies to play with. Again, thats imo and it might sound harsh against those who "really changed" but, having read and seen what I have, it's hard for me to believe that anyone but very very few cheaters, ever change to play fully legit again and remain so.

Don't remember having played you in a long while. So fair enough if you managed to change but from what I remember I cannot take your accusations serious, sorry.

 

Idk that I have or if I've needed to change and I've no idea when or if we met, so I can't answer you that.
I was asking you for your ig name out of curiosity to see how actively you play missions or fightclub etc, since you're claiming oppositely than what a lot of others feel, just from what I can tell anyway, but fair enough.

 

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2 hours ago, Tigrix said:

And why is that? do you take it badly if a stranger accuses you disagree with or know to be false? If someone says in /d "shin is a cheater!" does that taint your name or do you think each person seeing that text is able to think for themselves that someone yelling that in /d doesn't necessarily make it true?

How does it ruin your name or anyone in the video's name that each player make up their own mind what they think of the player(s) they're seeing a clip of?
Imo there's a big difference in posting a clip from the game and asking people what do ya'll think? and then posting clips and saying "WATCH THIS BLATANT CHEATER!!!".
One is an accusation with a clip, not to the person itself, but to everyone else to try and ruin him/her. The other is literally a clip from the game that took place with no accusation aside what the material itself shows and if it took place then why should it be censored? as if people themselves can't and must not be allowed to decide what they think of the clip? I really don't see facts ruining anyone.
If someone posted a clip of Tigrix (and yes, i've been accused many times) - if I saw a clip with a msg: "watch this cheater!!" i'd just smile and know I'm fine, since i'm legit and thus won't get picked

up by EAC or an admin reviewing me. (yeah, I trust they'll do their job and review if they find it necessary)


Idk from what or where you pull the stats that most cheaters lose vs veterans etc, but i'll pass on that as it highly depends on the cheater and how far they push their settings.
(closet cheating is extremely hard to detect for obvious reasons). But I must disagree that veterans stay behind in the game, they really don't. Majority of everyone I knew playing APB 3 years ago,

no longer plays the game. Mostly due to 2 factors: content drought and cheaters galore. But among new players and anyone starting APB within last year or 2, yes I do believe that most casuals quickly leave the game again, because simply there's so many things that demotivate a new player (Many of the same things that drove the veterans away, plus bronze districts being an absolute sh**itfest of dethreating edgelords farming newbies). Someone who even bothers to cheat however, is unlikely to leave the game imo, until forced/banned or no-one left to cheat against. That's my personal opinion, based on someone even going through the trouble of cheating in the first place.

I think it's a little late for paranoia concerns:) I also think people will discuss on the APB forum, whatever is on their mind from playing the game. 
If you see a lot of threads about cheaters, well... perhaps you should respect that there's a lot of people disagreeing with you on your lax view of the % of population they occupy in this quite tiny community. I mean, it makes me vomit to even see that theres like 6 replies all today, to an aimbot post at that "other forum" thanking the poster and saying it works... 

We're barely filling 1 fin district and half a WF district (referring to gold threat)... and if 6-10 kids run around with a triggerbot or w/e, when barely we can fill 1-2 districts, yes it's gonna be felt by us still actively playing. And those are obviously extremely conservative numbers, as 6 replies in 1 thread don't represent number of people having DL'ed files, when the thread maybe has 200+ views, and this is only one site, one forum, one example. Point is, in our tiny community, it's extremely devastating that some players can't manage to play legit, year after year after year.  And sadly, with how un-moderated this game was left for many years, that part of our community has really grown extremely resilient.

And unless our community itself starts dealing with their "friends" whom some have an inkling might not be playing "totally fair", then nothing is gonna change. We can't rely merely on EAC. It has to come also from the community itself, from people changing their view on cheating and being against having any association with current or ex cheaters, so that some of these hardcore ppl with 7y accounts on cheat forums ain't got clans and buddies to play with. Again, thats imo and it might sound harsh against those who "really changed" but, having read and seen what I have, it's hard for me to believe that anyone but very very few cheaters, ever change to play fully legit again and remain so.

 

Idk that I have or if I've needed to change and I've no idea when or if we met, so I can't answer you that.
I was asking you for your ig name out of curiosity to see how actively you play missions or fightclub etc, since you're claiming oppositely than what a lot of others feel, just from what I can tell anyway, but fair enough.

Quote

How does it ruin your name or anyone in the video's name that each player make up their own mind...

Dunno why you start talking about your vids and philosophize about reputation or whatever. Never mentioned them or replied in reference to them.

I am talking about your hard called accusations ingame where you call out legit veterans which when you argue about having the actual skill to differentiate between those and cheaters just cannot happen.

See: "The issue is that the wrong accusations have a far larger impact on the credibility than the convicted ones."

 

Quote

Idk from what or where you pull the stats that most cheaters lose vs veterans etc...

I pull these stats from experience because like you said it depends on their settings and usually only the absolute hardcore speedhacking blatants are near impossible to beat.

The rest which is the majority of the cheater population can be fairly well handled in a coordinated group of those veterans.

We obviously both pull those estimates of leaving players out of our booties but I think it's quite possible to make an educated guess that the casuals/averages players are the majority that leave.

Veterans may become less active but they are still here to keep an eye out and play from time to time. Cheaters can lose interest just as much as any other player.

 

Quote

I think it's a little late for paranoia concerns:) I also think people will discuss on the APB forum...

I will start respecting their opinion when they bring more to the table than hyperboles and unrealistic estimates. You call my view lax. I call it advised.

Also you don't take district numbers in reference to those "posters" that's a major flaw in your way of thinking.

If you want to make an even a slightly accurate estimate you would need to take the average players and not forget about the flow of players leaving/joining.

For example an average of 2 players could still be 8 different individuals. But again because of that your argument is nothing more than a worthless exaggeration

 

Quote

And unless our community itself starts dealing with their "friends" whom some have...

I agree with you here. I'd like to think that I am very cautious about the friends I choose to play with. Quite proud to say that not a single one of my mates got FF'ed or banned for cheating pre/post FF.

Having lead a sizable but decently skilled clan for a while I can say that we had no case of cheating either (one almost made it in but got booted in his trial games).

As a competitive character I'm quite conscious about not surrounding me with such individuals. But I feel this is drifting to much Offtopic so lets drop that.

 

 

Please, don't reply in that format again. I think we can remember what we wrote in a few paragraphs. Was a hazzle to copy&cut. 

I added some quotes as guidelines if that helps.

Edited by TheJellyGoo

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10 hours ago, Sayori said:

What coders? He's literally underage script kiddie that can't go past the copypaste monkey phase lol. That code is old.

He even has a video on youtube using voicechanger, pretending to be a girl. Hentai and School folders on the desktop too, also saw faceit icon too. What a great meme 😂

edit: Oh, and uses winrar, guess the l337 h4x0r hasn't heard of 7zip or other opensource alternatives.  I'm dying lol

 

Oh... this I did not know.

Thanks Sayori!

 

Christ even I use 7zip, and Im an old man!

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On 7/19/2019 at 8:51 AM, gordIsMyName said:

before i start...

 

please read this as informational. take it in. it's not meant to be negative. it's not meant to deflate spirits.

 

it's just an experience i have had that i wanted to share. you can be your own judge. but for me, the journey was stark and revealing.

 

 

 

 

 

in the past 8 hours i've been taken on a tour of the "dark side" of APB. a brief peek to see some things i kinda wish i hadn't even seen.

 

i literally feel like someone took me down into the sewers and i saw a sub-culture. i saw code and videos i simply couldn't find using conventional searching. and frankly, it makes me sick... 

 

but, it explains SO much. the oddball, exaggerated "left-to-right" character movement. the "insta-kill" i am always experiencing. how some people (an alarmingly high count of people) simply can't be beat. and their shooting ability defies all logic. all these people exhibit the same exact profile.

 

the only thing i can say to this community is the cheating... when the veil is lifted... you can see that it is so very real. and very prominent.

 

it is a practiced art. it extends far beyond using macro's to control weapon shots. triggerbots are now inclusive of other hacks. rolled nicely into an "memory space" executable that runs wild below the detection of anti-cheat software.

 

and this sub-culture of people who are using it? many of them are spiteful. suppressed. angry people. they even stalk specific players in the game and share their video clips like taxidermy mounts on their wall. i saw cultural rifts that are being addressed through the means of cheating.

 

while i feel vindicated for seeing this, i also feel so depressed. i love APB. it means a lot to me. much more than a simple video game. it's a unique experience. a unique culture. i hate seeing things degrade like this.

 

i only pray EAC can address some of this stuff. those folks there are sharp and aggressive at solving issues. they have a proven track record of being able to isolate unique, quirky violations and convert them to ban material.

 

the catch... it seems to me... will LO take action on the data and ban? banning is not a failure, but failing to ban is...

Oh yeah, I think a majority of players who are being told they're crazy on the forums do this search.

 

It opens your eyes, and makes one wish there was more being done to actually preserve fair play in this game.

 

But you know, those people might defend their precious scripts by saying "git gut". 

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Just want to remind people again, that cheats existing does not equal cheats not being caught and players not being banned.

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Quote

 

Dunno why you start talking about your vids and philosophize about reputation or whatever. Never mentioned them or replied in reference to them.

I am talking about your hard called accusations ingame where you call out legit veterans which when you argue about having the actual skill to differentiate between those and cheaters just cannot happen.

See: "The issue is that the wrong accusations have a far larger impact on the credibility than the convicted ones."

 

 

I was using my vids as an example. As for "in-game accusations" - personally, I only talk in /d if the player themselves start talking to me in /d or taunting in /d etc etc.
I whisper a player if I feel I need to tell them something and how exactly does that affect your credibility? It doesn't.

 

Quote

 

I pull these stats from experience because like you said it depends on their settings and usually only the absolute hardcore speedhacking blatants are near impossible to beat.

The rest which is the majority of the cheater population can be fairly well handled in a coordinated group of those veterans.

We obviously both pull those estimates of leaving players out of our booties but I think it's quite possible to make an educated guess that the casuals/averages players are the majority that leave.

Veterans may become less active but they are still here to keep an eye out and play from time to time. Cheaters can lose interest just as much as any other player.

 

 

Ok, so they're based on your experience and thus unique to you and whatever your skill level is. While I'll stick to the fact that any half decent cheater should easily defeat a good veteran.
Yes cheaters can lose interest eventually, especially if banned multiple times, but not "just as easily as any normal player".
Firstly, it's not a normal thing to cheat, read some free online material on the matter. It is considered that 2-3% of online players are "hardcore cheaters" in gaming in general, aka they cheat in any game they can get away with it (source from forbes, but you can find lots of material online: forbes: cheating is becoming a big problem in online gaming.
Already from that point, they're not your average normal player with same motivation as any legit player. They belong to a toxic minority that go the extra mile in whatever they play, to ditch the rules and have an advantage over everyone else - and that effort alone is imo enough to safely say that they're not as likely or quickly to quit a game, as any other player. Nor as affected by cheaters, duhh.

 

Quote

 

I will start respecting their opinion when they bring more to the table than hyperboles and unrealistic estimates. You call my view lax. I call it advised.

Also you don't take district numbers in reference to those "posters" that's a major flaw in your way of thinking.

If you want to make an even a slightly accurate estimate you would need to take the average players and not forget about the flow of players leaving/joining.

For example an average of 2 players could still be 8 different individuals. But again because of that your argument is nothing more than a worthless exaggeration

 


What's unrealistic and hyperbole in this thread? There's been nice discussion, nice references to "another forum" and it's not that hard to estimate that when you got /pop 388 online and barely 1 financial and sometimes 1 waterfront, then just alone the number of people you can SEE are active at these "other forums", gives you a rough estimate. And that is just ONE example, ONE forum, ONE site.
Obviously there are paid alternatives and other sources than simply that site which has been used as example in this thread.
 

Quote

 

I agree with you here. I'd like to think that I am very cautious about the friends I choose to play with. Quite proud to say that not a single one of my mates got FF'ed or banned for cheating pre/post FF.

Having lead a sizable but decently skilled clan for a while I can say that we had no case of cheating either (one almost made it in but got booted in his trial games).

As a competitive character I'm quite conscious about not surrounding me with such individuals. But I feel this is drifting to much Offtopic so lets drop that.

 

 

Well, who'd have guessed:) we can agree on one thing.

 

Edited by Tigrix
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10 hours ago, Tigrix said:

I was using my vids as an example. As for "in-game accusations" - personally, I only talk in /d if the player themselves start talking to me in /d or taunting in /d etc etc.
I whisper a player if I feel I need to tell them something and how exactly does that affect your credibility? It doesn't.

[...]

Well, who'd have guessed:) we can agree on one thing.

Who talks about my credibility? I am talking about yours when it comes to accusing others of cheating? How do you twist that.

Also why lie, you do accuse over whisper and go afk in missions (and I doubt we were an isolated case). And just because you don't remember my name doesn't mean it didn't happen. 

Maybe it's difficult to keep up with everyone that you have accused?

 

Quote

Ok, so they're based on your experience and thus unique to you and whatever your skill level is. While I'll stick to the fact that any half decent cheater should easily defeat a good veteran.
Yes cheaters can lose interest eventually, especially if banned multiple times, but not "just as easily as any normal player".
Firstly, it's not a normal thing to cheat, read some free online material on the matter. It is considered that 2-3% of online players are "hardcore cheaters" in gaming in general, aka they cheat in any game they can get away with it (source from forbes, but you can find lots of material online: forbes: cheating is becoming a big problem in online gaming.
Already from that point, they're not your average normal player with same motivation as any legit player. They belong to a toxic minority that go the extra mile in whatever they play, to ditch the rules and have an advantage over everyone else - and that effort alone is imo enough to safely say that they're not as likely or quickly to quit a game, as any other player. Nor as affected by cheaters, duhh.

It's high enough so that we do beat the majority of them and there is nothing unique about that. Any of these stacked veteran groups will tell you the same.

You're very presumptuous by coming here and telling veterans that it is a fact that they should easily lose vs decent cheaters while they literally tell you that it is not the case.

It comes back to the point that you're not actually on the level of skill that you think you are.

APB is very unique in it's design which offers quite the amount of tools to stand up against pretty much any cheater with a chance to win even vs those blatants.

Third-person, chokepoints, vehicles, no one-shot (one hitbox), radar/spotter, closed doors and so on... these all help level the playing field while in other games you just get an insta headshot.

Maybe that makes it some kind of challenge for cheaters? But then that would go against the principle of cheating - a challenge. Or it's popular in the hvh circle since so many think veterans are cheaters. Who knows.

 

At least now I know where you guys came up with the "40% of APB are cheaters lol". You're drawing the wrong conclusions from those numbers again (same as the "poster" reference).

Instead of reading that Forbes dude go to the source at least they can interpret their own numbers correctly. Though 6k gamers is a very small sample size.

Also I said cheaters can lose interest as much as "any other" not "normal" players which includes players that are heavily invested and don't lose interest easily.

Do cheaters tend to lose interest less likely, sure I can go with that, but they still can and that's all I said so please refrain from changing my words to fit your argument.

 

Quote

What's unrealistic and hyperbole in this thread? There's been nice discussion, nice references to "another forum" and it's not that hard to estimate that when you got /pop 388 online and barely 1 financial and sometimes 1 waterfront, then just alone the number of people you can SEE are active at these "other forums", gives you a rough estimate. And that is just ONE example, ONE forum, ONE site.
Obviously there are paid alternatives and other sources than simply that site which has been used as example in this thread.

Well for example the above mentioned:

On 7/19/2019 at 7:32 PM, Kitty Yekaterina said:

[...]

If client side anti cheat, and more strict severe bans will lead to population dropping for  w/e  percentage lets say 40%,  do it! 
[...]

or pretty much any other number or evaluation that has been given and blown out of proportion. It's a reoccurring theme in these threads.

Edited by TheJellyGoo

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14 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Oh... this I did not know.

Thanks Sayori!

 

Christ even I use 7zip, and Im an old man!

The real og uses total commander xd

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Quote

 

Who talks about my credibility? I am talking about yours when it comes to accusing others of cheating? How do you twist that.

Also why lie, you do accuse over whisper and go afk in missions (and I doubt we were an isolated case). And just because you don't remember my name doesn't mean it didn't happen. 

Maybe it's difficult to keep up with everyone that you have accused?

 


So you care about MY credibility? so we're back to the start, full circle and I must repeat:
Each person can make up their own mind, whether or not they think a clip or an "accusation" is true or false. I've been accused many times, it doesn't diminish my experience and the accusers

credibility is none of my concern at all, so idk how you made yourself so concerned with what is my credibility if I think you're a cheater? 
Why are you scared of people speaking their mind that you feel the general rule should be to suppress it? Do you get a lot of accusations? 

I think as long as people can retain to whisper and not spam accusations "public" and as long as people are free to use /ignore vs anyone whispering... we have the tools to deal with people we disagree with, correct? regardless what YOU think of someone else's credibility. I know for certain that when people have harassed me, the common response is: "put the user on ignore".
 

Quote

 

It's high enough so that we do beat the majority of them and there is nothing unique about that. Any of these stacked veteran groups will tell you the same.

You're very presumptuous by coming here and telling veterans that it is a fact that they should easily lose vs decent cheaters while they literally tell you that it is not the case.

It comes back to the point that you're not actually on the level of skill that you think you are.

APB is very unique in it's design which offers quite the amount of tools to stand up against pretty much any cheater with a chance to win even vs those blatants.

Third-person, chokepoints, vehicles, no one-shot (one hitbox), radar/spotter, closed doors and so on... these all help level the playing field while in other games you just get an insta headshot.

Maybe that makes it some kind of challenge for cheaters? But then that would go against the principle of cheating - a challenge. Or it's popular in the hvh circle since so many think veterans are cheaters. Who knows.

 


Again, you're speaking for a group, yet I see only you? and then you call ME presumptuous ? lol:)
I think you're frustrated that a lot more talk is happening about this problem and that the community is so small, that either you're part of the concerned groups of people wanting to address how openly this subculture is operating nowadays, or you're someone closing your eyes and saying "there's no problem, you're all blowing it out of proportions".
 

Quote

 

At least now I know where you guys came up with the "40% of APB are cheaters lol". You're drawing the wrong conclusions from those numbers again (same as the "poster" reference).

Instead of reading that Forbes dude go to the source at least they can interpret their own numbers correctly. Though 6k gamers is a very small sample size.

Also I said cheaters can lose interest as much as "any other" not "normal" players which includes players that are heavily invested and don't lose interest easily.

Do cheaters tend to lose interest less likely, sure I can go with that, but they still can and that's all I said so please refrain from changing my words to fit your argument.

 


No you're wrong and I see you've only skimmed a few lines of the source and misunderstood them, so let me fix it for you;
I said 2-3% are hardcore cheaters. The 37% referenced number from forbes, is condensed number by putting together multiple categories from the survey.
The category I referenced and in our example care about, are the hardcore cheaters that always cheat in any game and regardless bans and simply can't play games legit, aka the 2-3%.

Here's what you misunderstood: If you add up those numbers from the different answer categories that all deal with "always, often, sometimes, rarely", that's where your 37% came from:

 

irdeto-4.jpg

 


But I'm glad you point out that "40%" number though (37%) it really goes to show a growing problem in the industry as a whole. You should also be concerned with some of the other findings in these reports, for example that 60% of online gamers say that they've had their experiences in games ruined by cheaters. Now imagine APB.
As for a small sample size? this is not the only report on this matter, feel free, there are many others (some was posted on OT forums). I'm glad you can finally agree that cheaters are less likely to lose interest than "non-cheaters" since you dislike the term normal, for non-cheaters, which is what i'd consider a normal person/player:)

 

 

Quote

 

Well for example the above mentioned:

or pretty much any other number or evaluation that has been given and blown out of proportion. It's a reoccurring theme in these threads.

 


What exactly has been blown out of proportion? The numbers are there to look at, the material is there to look at, the "other forums" are easily found via google and people can quickly make their own impressions about number of active cheaters in APB. This is what the OP was discussing, is it not? He came across such "site" and got repulsed by how openly these individuals spread their cancer and discuss anti-cheat and scripts and bypassing/cheating and yada yada.

--------------------

Just for the heck of it, here's an old source, it's fun (sad really) because it was co-answered by developers from the old APB OG title.
source: cheating-spreads-like-infections-in-online-games
 

" The trouble, of course, is that cheats poison the experience for legitimate players. The temptation is then for all players to cheat which leads to an uncontrolled escalation of illegal activities and the eventually destruction of the gaming environment.

Jeremy Blackburn at the University of South Florida in Tampa study a social network of about 12 million gamers on the Steam Community of which some 700,000 are cheaters.

What they find is interesting. First up, cheats stick together. The data shows that cheaters are much more likely to be friends with other cheaters.

Cheating also appears to be infectious. The likelihood of a fair player becoming labelled as a cheater in future is directly correlated with this person’s number of friends who are cheaters. So if you know cheaters you are more likely to become one yourself. Cheating spreads like flu through this community. "

 

Edited by Tigrix
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4 hours ago, TheJellyGoo said:

It's high enough so that we do beat the majority of them and there is nothing unique about that. Any of these stacked veteran groups will tell you the same.

You're very presumptuous by coming here and telling veterans that it is a fact that they should easily lose vs decent cheaters while they literally tell you that it is not the case.

It comes back to the point that you're not actually on the level of skill that you think you are.

 


you must meet some very bad cheaters if aimbot can lose against smart veteran hehe
chokepoints it still all come down to a fire fight in that choke point and if you can beat aimbotters so easy then good on you :-]
 

32 minutes ago, Tigrix said:


What exactly has been blown out of proportion? The numbers are there to look at, the material is there to look at, the "other forums" are easily found via google and people can quickly make their own impressions about number of active cheaters in APB. This is what the OP was discussing, is it not? He came across such "site" and got repulsed by how openly these individuals spread their cancer and discuss anti-cheat and scripts and bypassing/cheating and yada yada.

--------------------

Just for the heck of it, here's an old source, it's fun (sad really) because it was co-answered by developers from the old APB OG title.
source: cheating-spreads-like-infections-in-online-games
 

" The trouble, of course, is that cheats poison the experience for legitimate players. The temptation is then for all players to cheat which leads to an uncontrolled escalation of illegal activities and the eventually destruction of the gaming environment.

Jeremy Blackburn at the University of South Florida in Tampa study a social network of about 12 million gamers on the Steam Community of which some 700,000 are cheaters.

What they find is interesting. First up, cheats stick together. The data shows that cheaters are much more likely to be friends with other cheaters.

Cheating also appears to be infectious. The likelihood of a fair player becoming labelled as a cheater in future is directly correlated with this person’s number of friends who are cheaters. So if you know cheaters you are more likely to become one yourself. Cheating spreads like flu through this community. "

 


that qote is best thing becouse it true ha ha! 

plz fix EAC and help to enjoy game more!

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1 minute ago, Tiana90 said:

~snip~

"12 million gamers on the Steam Community of which some 700,000 are cheaters"

What is that like 5-6% ?

So that would mean APB has a total of like 25-30 cheaters.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

"12 million gamers on the Steam Community of which some 700,000 are cheaters"

What is that like 5-6% ?

So that would mean APB has a total of like 25-30 cheaters.

 



Dude... :d you changed the quote tsk tsk. ( University of South Florida in Tampa study a social network of about 12 million gamers on the Steam Community )
A network,.... Also, as I wrote this was from an older article, 2011 which was funny in this case because it was co-answered by the original APB developers, RTW.
In 2011/2012 steam had about 40 million registered users according to steam reports. source 

  • Haha 1

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1 hour ago, Tigrix said:

snip

I would had not go the extra mile to patiently explain all that on the forum and giving facts .

Though i agree with all you said so far about cheating.

I never saw the game bugs the main issue for APB, at least not for me.

Though G1 did little to nothing and when they actually did something they unbaned them back.

Edited by Jumanna

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13 minutes ago, Tigrix said:

Dude... :d you changed the quote tsk tsk. ( University of South Florida in Tampa study a social network of about 12 million gamers on the Steam Community )

but... that doesn't change the fact that in the study only 5-6% of players were cheating

 

note: citadel has a cheating problem I won't deny that

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5 hours ago, TheJellyGoo said:

or pretty much any other number or evaluation that has been given and blown out of proportion. It's a reoccurring theme in these threads.

Nice attempt to pull things out of the context, even tho i clearly stated "lets say 40%" being known as phrase used for figure of speech.  

You can continue pretend you are blind, but fact is playerbase population peak over past months and weeks are around 500-600  barely. 
Maybe you dont play APB at all, maybe you are here just to defend cheaters or tryhard to diminish cheater issue in APB; but fact is last few weeks there were only 2 silver districts full of ppl, from which lately not even waterfront gets 40/40 but stops around 30/20 ppl per entire night. 

With that said you literally got barely cca 160 ppl gold players active last few months since riots remain dead.  

If there  is "only" 40 players who hack thats like 25% of entire playerbase.  

25% is not 1% its not "small" number its 1 quarter of entire population we count in. 
So stop talking about exaggeration, about things being "blown out of proportions" and get realistic already or at least stop insulting other people's intelligence by claiming there are 2 hackers in apb, while their forum got 100+ active members...at one forum we know and publicly can see. 

 

If APB population was as it used to be at 2000-3000 players, cheaters would probably be at their irrelevant 1% existence and nobody would fuzzy bunny about anything but when u got barely 100 ppl player base, you will damn feel if there is 10 hackers online...u ll feel as if it was 90% of hackers online, because every pressing k u ll get at least 1 hacker in enemy squad even if he is not premade group with them.

Hacker issue is real, its huge, and it has to be dealt with before the engine upgrade or any other mod or upgrade whatsoever! Otherwise there will be no apb left to be saved!

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31 minutes ago, Jumanna said:

I would had not go the extra mile to patiently explain all that on the forum and giving facts .

Though i agree with all you said so far about cheating.

I never saw the game bugs the main issue for APB, at least not for me.

Though G1 did little to nothing and when they actually did something they unbaned them back.


Thanks 👍 
 

23 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

but... that doesn't change the fact that in the study only 5-6% of players were cheating

 

note: citadel has a cheating problem I won't deny that


It does change the fact CookiePuss. Firstly, you're supporting MY point lol, since general studies in online gaming say its 2-3% that are hard-core cheaters.
But I say that in APB that number is way way higher, so well you're already doubling my number (5-6%) and that is just a study from 2011! (do you think cheating in general has expanded over the years cookiepuss?)
 
All indications and studies/research on the matter, you can read! click the source.... and then find likewise material from later years aka 2017-2018 and see the progression in that downwards spiral.
Now if you add APB into the frames of what these studies show, both the old and the new ones.... 
Then you'll understand why we're in the situation we're in now.. and it's NOT just content drought or "tiggs fault!"...
( I quoted an imo very relevant short quote from the first study upper, about friends and cheaters and the impact it has ).

And that is what i'm arguing here, versus anyone claiming that the "number of posts about cheating issues means we're drawing a picture of APB that isn't true".
No it means it's a big issue on the minds of the few active players left.

Well, i'm glad you don't deny that, it would be kinda stupid if you did.
 

21 minutes ago, Haganu said:

for each meter of the Great Wall of Text a keyboard died

it didn't take long to break it

as it stands, 21.196,18 km long, 21.196.180 keyboards have died for nothing


May they R.I.P.

Edited by Tigrix

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18 minutes ago, Tigrix said:


So you care about MY credibility? so we're back to the start, full circle and I must repeat:
Each person can make up their own mind, whether or not they think a clip or an "accusation" is true or false. I've been accused many times, it doesn't diminish my experience and the accuserscredibility is none of my concern at all, so idk how you made yourself so concerned with what is my credibility if I think you're a cheater? 
Why are you scared of people speaking their mind that you feel the general rule should be to suppress it? Do you get a lot of accusations? 
 [...]
 

 

Of course everyone can make up their own mind and judge for themselves as long as they do it in private.

My whole issue with you and those threads has been that those individuals decided to step out and go public. As soon as that happens it very much matters whether their accusations are right or wrong.

At this point I'm not sure you really understand the meaning of "credibility of your accusations" here? It's just not there so anything you say doesn't matter.

So what concerns me isn't your credibility but the people gobbling these accusations up while lacking the insight of the positions and qualifications of those posters.

 

Yes, I would say I get a lot of accusations when playing, if more or less than others I don't know and I don't really care about it as long as those people don't go on to the forums and proclaim that they have the skills to differentiate between veterans and cheaters which has been the ISSUE this whole time. Did that get it across?

 

Quote

I think as long as people can retain to whisper and not spam accusations "public" and as long as people are free to use /ignore vs anyone whispering... we have the tools to deal with people we disagree with, correct? regardless what YOU think of someone else's credibility. I know for certain that when people have harassed me, the common response is: "put the user on ignore".

To bad then that you did accuse over whisper and /d (public) then. Lied again.

Also this isn't about how to handle those comments, as you said the tools are there and everyone can decide for themselves to moderate it, but what they do to your credibility (yes, that word again)

 

Quote

Again, you're speaking for a group, yet I see only you? and then you call ME presumptuous ? lol:)
I think you're frustrated that a lot more talk is happening about this problem and that the community is so small, that either you're part of the concerned groups of people wanting to address how openly this subculture is operating nowadays, or you're someone closing your eyes and saying "there's no problem, you're all blowing it out of proportions".

Like I previously said I am very conscious about keeping my distance to such people. I've also been pretty outspoken about some of the most infamous cases so my position is pretty clear.

I said: "I will say it's not minor but blowing the whole "plagued subculture" out of proportion doesn't help either. " remember there is more than two absolutes.

 

Quote

No you're wrong and I see you've only skimmed a few lines of the source and misunderstood them, so let me fix it for you;
I said 2-3% are hardcore cheaters. The 37% referenced number from forbes, is condensed number by putting together multiple categories from the survey.
The category I referenced and in our example care about, are the hardcore cheaters that always cheat in any game and regardless bans and simply can't play games legit, aka the 2-3%.

Here's what you misunderstood: If you add up those numbers from the different answer categories that all deal with "always, often, sometimes, rarely", that's where your 37% came from:



irdeto-4.jpg


But I'm glad you point out that "40%" number though (37%) it really goes to show a growing problem in the industry as a whole. You should also be concerned with some of the other findings in these reports, for example that 60% of online gamers say that they've had their experiences in games ruined by cheaters. Now imagine APB.
As for a small sample size? this is not the only report on this matter, feel free, there are many others (some was posted on OT forums). I'm glad you can finally agree that cheaters are less likely to lose interest than "non-cheaters" since you dislike the term normal, for non-cheaters, which is what i'd consider a normal person/player:)

I didn't skim through and neither did I misunderstand it. You made the same mistake that I've talked about twice already. That's just not how percentages and numbers work.

It's not "my" 40% (37%). I quoted it from you (KittyYekaterina).

Just as 2 average can potentially be 8 individuals. The absolute worst case would be that everyone of these decide to cheat in APB only then and ONLY THEN would there be 40% of cheaters.

But that is not the case. You have 3% that always cheat. 9% often so let's say about 7%. 13% sometimes could be around half let's add another 6%. Rarely we can add another 2%.

That accumulates to a total of 18% that would have decided to cheat in APB. Nowhere near close the 40% (37%).

Still a scary number nonetheless but I will point out again the small sample size that goes from.

 

Quote

What exactly has been blown out of proportion? The numbers are there to look at, the material is there to look at, the "other forums" are easily found via google and people can quickly make their own impressions about number of active cheaters in APB. This is what the OP was discussing, is it not? He came across such "site" and got repulsed by how openly these individuals spread their cancer and discuss anti-cheat and scripts and bypassing/cheating and yada yada.

I think I've answered this often enough now. My advice: look at the numbers twice.

Maybe he shouldn't visit those sites if he can't handle the obvious: people openly discuss cheats on a cheat-forum.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

52 minutes ago, Tiana90 said:


you must meet some very bad cheaters if aimbot can lose against smart veteran hehe
chokepoints it still all come down to a fire fight in that choke point and if you can beat aimbotters so easy then good on you :-]

[...]

An aimbot can kill you only as fast as the gun/bloom allows you since there is only one hitbox with no instakills.

Like I said "veteran groups" usually means good teamwork. Trade each other. Ladders and doors are chokepoints where the cheater can't shoot back for a time.

Work with cars, cheater that reloads cant shoot back. Are we all playing the same gun? Use burst weapons that reduce exposure, use range on them or just straight out-ttk them.

I've played ACES smg and straight out-ttked aimbots close range (obviously you won't always reach that minimal ttk but you only need one kill to progress at times).

Not to mention grenades. There are just so many ways to level the playing field. 

So please, do me a favor and stop with that ignorant view of aimbots can't be beaten. It's quite the silly statement in APB.

 

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

19 minutes ago, Kitty Yekaterina said:

Nice attempt to pull things out of the context, even tho i clearly stated "lets say 40%" being known as phrase used for figure of speech.  

[...]

With that said you literally got barely cca 160 ppl gold players active last few months since riots remain dead.  

[...]

Sure, figure of speech. We both (three) know that number comes from the above linked article.

Also with your very educated break-down you came to the conclusion of 160 active gold players?

With this level of kindergarten mathematics I won't even bother to proceed with your post.

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19 minutes ago, TheJellyGoo said:

Sure, figure of speech. We both (three) know that number comes from the above linked article.

Also with your very educated break-down you came to the conclusion of 160 active gold players?

With this level of kindergarten mathematics I won't even bother to proceed with your post.

No we dont, I came with number before the mention of article you are discussing with Tigrix but article nicely proves the point additionally.

I came with 40% with exactly the way i said... if you dont kno what percentage is 40 out of 160, thats your mathematical lack of knowledge not mine. And obviously you didnt play APB last couple of months, because if you did, you would see there are only 2 active districts most of the times...barely 2 full silver districts where all golds are, that is 160 veterans and generally gold players...unless you wanna assume that all veterans play at green and bronze servers nobody is talking about. 
Your kindergarten transparent arrogance so far didnt provide ANY evidence for your counter claims, aside bashing facts from Tigrix who provided you sources for his claims. 

 

All you provided is your opinion, and a wrong one if i may add, you didnt even bother to backup your claims  with any sources whatsoever...all you said so far is : cheater problem is exaggerated ! Yes? Where is your proof? Aside much mumbo jumbo blablablaing you did so far.  Nowhere.

So keep talking empty words, so far thats all you managed to do. Write countless essays of empty words without zero effort of evidence attempt or any fact whatsoever. 

 

Your opinion is not a fact, your opinion is your opinion. Sorry to break it down for you. 
I will not discuss matters with a silly person who just talks back cuz he cant stand the truth coming out on a surface and got ZERO evidence n facts provided in his wannabe comeback "counter" replies. 

It would be my own personal waste of time. So enjoy with your lil fairy tale world of no cheaters in apb, and we ll continue to speak up, same as rest of veterans do, same as many others who opened topics like OP did this. K tnx bye. 

Edited by Kitty Yekaterina

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12 minutes ago, Kitty Yekaterina said:

No we dont, I came with number before the mention of article you are discussing with Tigrix but article nicely proves the point additionally.

I came with 40% with exactly the way i said... if you dont kno what percentage is 40 out of 160, thats your mathematical lack of knowledge not mine. And obviously you didnt play APB last couple of months, because if you did, you would see there are only 2 active districts most of the times...barely 2 full silver districts where all golds are, that is 160 veterans and generally gold players...unless you wanna assume that all veterans play at green and bronze servers nobody is talking about. 
Your kindergarten transparent arrogance so far didnt provide ANY evidence for your counter claims, aside bashing facts Tigrix who provided you sources for his claims. 

 

All you provided is your opinion, and a wrong one if i may add, you didnt even bother to be backup with any sources your claims...all you said so far is : cheater problem is exaggerated ! Yes? Where is your proof? Aside much mumbo jumbo blablblaing so far.  Nowhere.

So keep talking empty words, so far thats all you managed to do. Write countless essays of empty words without zero effort of evidence attempt or any fact whtasoever. 

Your opinion is not a fact, your opinion is your opinion. Sorry to break it down for you. 
I will not discuss matters with a silly person who just talks back cuz he cant stand the truth coming out on a surface and got ZERO evidence n facts provided in his wannabe comeback replies. 

It would be my own personal waste of time. So enjoy with your lil fairy tale world of no cheaters in apb, and we ll continue to speak up, same as rest of veterans do, same as many others who opened topics like OP did this. K tnx bye. 

Yes, because all 160 active golds play all the time without ever logging off. There is no flow (joining/leaving) of players (I have mentioned this "very advanced" concept already twice).
But sure, keep seeing it as arrogant when I'm done with explaining the basics for the third time.
Keep going in circles while ignoring any valid logic that disprove your facts time and time again. Sources are pointless if you misinterpret the numbers.

If you use your sources to back up your argumentation and I show you that you read those numbers wrong exaggerating their whole meaning with that then that is my proof.

 

 

Edited by TheJellyGoo

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Come on guys, you're better than this. There are hackers in the game, that's true but the fact that we don't know how many hackers play does not mean we should start speculating without any knowledge that X percent of players are hackers. We should instead try to come up with solutions and demand the devs to implement such systems to prevent hack usage. Not everyone is a hacker. Just because a person is having a good day & is lucky enough to be missing very few shots does not mean said person is hacking. We're all in this together so no need to point fingers at each other as it will not help us in any way. I'd say implement a solid Client Sided Anti-Cheat and be done with it. 

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