Little Orbit, please avoid predatory videogame monetization

[UubeNubeh DaWog 136]

2 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

As CookiePuss and others have mentioned in multiple threads this past year , APB has not made profit , so again..... are we talking about APB still?

The argument is, *should* apb be making money/profit this way?

OP is saying no.

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by UubeNubeh DaWog

[Fortune Runner 796]

46 minutes ago, UubeNubeh DaWog said:

The argument is, *should* apb be making money/profit this way?

OP is saying no.

 

yeah his last reply showed that finally.

he had me confused by his wording as if it was happening already and i was a bit thrown off from it.

[yood 345]

51 minutes ago, UubeNubeh DaWog said:

 

OP is saying no.

 

пускай идет это общество знаешь куда !?  почему команда LO должна работать на альтруизме ?  для LO это - БИЗНЕС !  для игрока это развлечение ! хочешь развлекаться ? ПЛАТИ !

 

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by Yood

[CookiePuss 5373]

Can't wait to have to pay a monthly fee for APB all because little Johnny can't stop buying JMB and refuses to take responsibility for his own choices. 

[WhiskeyTangoFoxX 280]

2 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Can't wait to have to pay a monthly fee for APB all because little Johnny can't stop buying JMB and refuses to take responsibility for his own choices. 

 

You know F2P games existed and worked before lootboxes became a thing, right?

[CookiePuss 5373]

20 minutes ago, WhiskeyTangoFoxX said:

 

You know F2P games existed and worked before lootboxes became a thing, right?

You get out of here with your facts!

 

But to answer your question, yes. 

 

I guess we can hope that JMBs were never a big source of income. 

[Jazeker 1082]

It's never going back OP. What's more, they will only find new ways to milk you. Let me say here that I will never touch an EA game ever again while I loved playing those on console when I was just a kid.

 

I got gifted around 100 of those 20 dollar mounts back in my WoW days. And I'm old. Can you imagine that? That's only mounts. My husband once spend hundreds of dollars on giftboxes in an EA game at once, and dominated for the next weeks, playing 100% legit.

 

It's all silly if you think about it, you buy a game, and today, you usually pay a subscription on top of that, for the privilege of being able to spend even more if you want to, much more if you can. But it is what it is today. If you still find a game that doesn't cash on p2w or vanity after you bought it and pay a subscription for it... try to love it . Expansions and content is fine. I'd say even an engine update . Day one DLC is the same silliness.

 

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by Jazeker
=)

[yood 345]

почему вы такие умные и такие нищие ?

Edited July 3, 2019 by Yood

[ScLines 13]

2 hours ago, Jazeker said:

It's never going back OP. What's more, they will only find new ways to milk you. Let me say here that I will never touch an EA game ever again while I loved playing those on console when I was just a kid.

 

I got gifted around 100 of those 20 dollar mounts back in my WoW days. And I'm old. Can you imagine that? That's only mounts. My husband once spend hundreds of dollars on giftboxes in an EA game at once, and dominated for the next weeks, playing 100% legit.

 

It's all silly if you think about it, you buy a game, and today, you usually pay a subscription on top of that, for the privilege of being able to spend even more if you want to, much more if you can. But it is what it is today. If you still find a game that doesn't cash on p2w or vanity after you bought it and pay a subscription for it... try to love it . Expansions and content is fine. I'd say even an engine update . Day one DLC is the same silliness.

 

 

It is possible to not let these developers try to find new predatory ways to get money from us unethically. I still remember nobody said anything much about these new scummy practices until many years later. Once enough people start screaming about these practices, it might be just enough to deter others from doing the same thing. You could say it is a 'protest', but there's no doubt these particular monetizations are unethical and I am not surprised legislation had to get involved to make the practices illegal and to avoid any loopholes the corporations will try to go to next.

[Mitne 724]

On 7/2/2019 at 6:11 PM, ScLines said:

I already answered the question on the original post. Little Orbit should avoid predatory monetization, if that wasn't obvious enough. 

What predatory monetization? They promised to get rid of JMBs if that's your problem. Enlightened me of other "predatory monetization" issues.

And no. Your post just keep rising my brow and further questions.

Also we run in circles -

 Q:"What you see wrong with monetization?" A: "Little Orbit should avoid predatory monetization, if that wasn't obvious enough" - while I litteraly debunked that current monetization plans ain't predatory.

20 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

You folks know you don't HAVE to buy JMBs, right?

Not even that. If you really want them and don't want to pay irl money at all there is possibility to buy it from other place on marketplace in-game.

Name games which do that. Dunno maybe TF2? The same era of gaming.

16 hours ago, ScLines said:

If you watched the video that whole thing of "you don't have to buy loot boxes/microtransactions" is a poor excuse. It's kind of like saying to a little kid when going to a casino saying you don't need to gamble etc. Most monetization nowadays is predatory as explained in that video, and there are those that will end up spending money that go out of control etc. 

Yeah and whole narrative is about EA. Why? Because they fucking games are ENTIRELY based on lootboxes. You can't really progress without lootboxes.

16 hours ago, Yood said:

the game manufacturer has the right to make money in any way , if it is not limited by law .

Not only he has right, he need to make money. No matter how you look at it it's business. Nobody creates company, pays for production and maintaince to do it like charity work.

16 hours ago, ScLines said:

Yeah, but definitely not with the predatory/addictive monetization. If companies can't make a good game without the monetization like the old days, maybe they shouldn't be in business. 

Every game got some kind of monetization scheme, you moron.

Also monetization of "old days", you mean like RTW subscription? No thanks.

16 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

It's the truth. 

This is a game for adults. 

APB is not your mommy. 

 

Whatever happened to taking responsibility for our own actions?

Better question is what the fuck happened with this society. Better question is what the fuck happened with parental control.

Mother buys GTA cause kid wants it, then moans all over social media how games are evil and her little Timmy murders people in +18 game.

This is fun which was meant for fucking adults. PEGA is for fucking you and you decide to ignore it, parents.

But no, better leave kiddo with game he wants because he can stop annoying you while you search on Facebook for dead memes and think you are superb mother.

I blame my own generation.

15 hours ago, Glaciers said:

but apb loot boxes are about as far removed from gameplay as they can get without being cosmetics

Exactly my point. You don't really need them to progress and leveling it to EA level of abuse is beyond comprehensible to me.

15 hours ago, ScLines said:

Last I checked the game was not rated Adults Only (AO), especially as shown on the Steam page. And I'd like for you to use that same logic to those players who easily get addicted to the predatory monetization. Addiction is not a switch you can easily turn on/off, it is not that simple.

Really? Use incognito mode and go to this page: https://store.steampowered.com/agecheck/app/113400/ and tell me what you exactly see. "Last you checked". Phi.

Oh and also.

15 hours ago, ScLines said:

And it is just as easy not to have those mechanics that cause behavioral issues in the first place in a video game, especially in the current state where people get hooked on the bad monetization. No problem criticizing a bad game with no monetization.

Yes. Censorship, golden pill of today far left part of society.

And APB is very poor example of how hostile monetization work.

If you really got addicted to spending money on JMBs, then that's really on you. Because you must be total moron. You benefit nothing from them and you can buy their rewards for in-game money. And it's not even that hard to collect 10 millions APB$ if you play regularly. First-hand experince.

15 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

I'll take JMBs over a monthly $ubscription any day. 

After all, that money has to come from somewhere. 

Something he can't understand.

13 hours ago, ScLines said:

Yeah, back when people didn't know better or make a strong protest.

Dude, game was coming out in F2P model and nobody or nothing forced us to pay for loot boxes. Compare it to subscription based model of RTW.

What people should've protested against? Against way better model for us, customers?

13 hours ago, ScLines said:

Only realizing how addictive these microtransactions/loot boxes are addictive after many years later with several studies done only then these are seen in a negative light.

Was APB in control group? Yeah well. You failed to say it was about EA again, don't you?

12 hours ago, ScLines said:

Yep. I've seen one new game before release with the developers promising they won't add predatory monetization in future updates. That was a lie. Let's not see that happen to this game at any point in the future. 

Then why attack current model of JMBs all of sudden and F2P when it's as far from predatory monetization I ever seen in any F2P game I played? This make very little sense from you. You contradict yourself in so many answers.

9 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

yeah his last reply showed that finally.

he had me confused by his wording as if it was happening already and i was a bit thrown off from it.

Honestly, he defended his point so eagerly I don't think he just made mistake.

He really believes JMBs are predatory monetization.

5 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Can't wait to have to pay a monthly fee for APB all because little Johnny can't stop buying JMB and refuses to take responsibility for his own choices. 

Then little Johnny gonna cry about it too.

But it will be too late.

And everyone gonna be super pissed at little Johnny.

5 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

I guess we can hope that JMBs were never a big source of income. 

Taking some accounts of players from years, they were significant in my opinion. But still, were they forced by nature of game? Absolutely not.

It's like banning cards cause they can be use for gambling. People will still gamble, without cards.

 

And sorry for such big reply. I was busy with life and a lot of answers were needing my answer in my opinion so here they are consolidated. Find your pick.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Mitne

[ScLines 13]

Quote

 

What predatory monetization? They promised to get rid of JMBs if that's your problem. Enlightened me of other "predatory monetization" issues.

And no. Your post just keep rising my brow and further questions.

Also we run in circles -

 Q:"What you see wrong with monetization?" A: "Little Orbit should avoid predatory monetization, if that wasn't obvious enough" - while I litteraly debunked that current monetization plans ain't predatory.

 

Any predatory monetization that is in any game in general and doesn't just have to be in APB alone. Simple as that.

 

Quote

Yeah and whole narrative is about EA. Why? Because they fucking games are ENTIRELY based on lootboxes. You can't really progress without lootboxes.

Nope. EA isn't the only one at fault if you actually watched the video. It goes beyond them at this point.

Quote

 

Really? Use incognito mode and go to this page: https://store.steampowered.com/agecheck/app/113400/ and tell me what you exactly see. "Last you checked". Phi.

Oh and also.

 

ESRB rating on the store page on the right still says M for Mature. Other countries have their own ratings but I'm going by ESRB here. They have AO (Adults Only) rating but it isn't applied to this game.

Quote

 

Yes. Censorship, golden pill of today far left part of society.

And APB is very poor example of how hostile monetization work.

If you really got addicted to spending money on JMBs, then that's really on you. Because you must be total moron. You benefit nothing from them and you can buy their rewards for in-game money. And it's not even that hard to collect 10 millions APB$ if you play regularly. First-hand experince.

 

Yep. Blame the addicts for not knowing any better, that excuse has been covered in the video as well. Not surprising to see someone use that one here now. The fact that the option is there is still psychologically manipulative and that can't be denied. 

 

Subscription for an MMO I would rather do than monetization, if the game is worth my time.

 

Quote

 

Dude, game was coming out in F2P model and nobody or nothing forced us to pay for loot boxes. Compare it to subscription based model of RTW.

What people should've protested against? Against way better model for us, customers?

 

Yep. I didn't know any better when these practices came out many years ago, but at least I opened my eyes and see how harmful it can be for those who don't know better. Because of that I strongly oppose it so that others don't get duped. Saying that loot boxes/microtransactions are optional and you don't have to pay them is again a poor excuse because of its addictive nature. You and I may not fall for the trap, but others are not so fortunate and I don't mind seeing them not belong in video games. 

 

Quote

Was APB in control group? Yeah well. You failed to say it was about EA again, don't you?

You do realize that EA aren't the only ones at fault. Though I can certainly see in hindsight that the big companies made these bad practices look good when they aren't.

 

Quote

Then why attack current model of JMBs all of sudden and F2P when it's as far from predatory monetization I ever seen in any F2P game I played? This make very little sense from you. You contradict yourself in so many answers.

Don't take my word for it, there are many others that are opposing it. The voices on this issue has been slowly growing over the years. I doubt they will survive against the new pieces of legislation that some countries are thinking about already. And I don't think those people in the legislature will listen to your arguments of monetization/loot boxes. If the anti-loot box/monetization bills for example don't go through, the fight against them will not stop I imagine. Plus those Joker Mystery Boxes look like a different variation of a loot box even if you don't need it to progress in the game. You pay for money to get an unknown reward every time you decide to pay for them. That's gambling. It is still predatory. Saying Joker Mystery Boxes aren't loot boxes is like Electronic Arts saying they are not loot boxes but they are instead 'surprise mechanics'. That doesn't change a thing on what they are.

[Fortune Runner 796]

1 hour ago, Mitne said:

Honestly, he defended his point so eagerly I don't think he just made mistake.

He really believes JMBs are predatory monetization.

So its not just me who thought that way.

Ok thank you.

 

BTW for those who do not know , one JMB is only a dollar unlike other games where it is much more than that

Some people say they have bought 20 and got the weapon they wanted from it.

That is why I  do not believe APB does that to people when it comes to boxes.

But that is just my opinion.

[yood 345]

 

[ScLines 13]

2 minutes ago, Fortune Runner said:

So its not just me who thought that way.

Ok thank you.

 

BTW for those who do not know , one JMB is only a dollar unlike other games where it is much more than that

Some people say they have bought 20 and got the weapon they wanted from it.

That is why I  do not believe APB does that to people when it comes to boxes.

But that is just my opinion.

You still paid money on a loot box when you don't know exactly what you will get. Like going to a slot machine, you pay money and you don't know what you will get in return. Put more money in hopes you get what you want does come.. eventually or maybe never. It still has that gambling addictive nature no matter how cheap/expensive the loot box is.

[vsb 6170]

14 minutes ago, ScLines said:

You still paid money on a loot box when you don't know exactly what you will get. Like going to a slot machine, you pay money and you don't know what you will get in return. Put more money in hopes you get what you want does come.. eventually or maybe never. It still has that gambling addictive nature no matter how cheap/expensive the loot box is.

as i understand it, since you always get something worth more than 100 g1c its technically not gambling as defined under the law

 

i just dont get how the loot box argument really applies to joker boxes, other than vaguely similar opening mechanics - everything available in joker boxes can be unlocked for free ingame iirc

[ScLines 13]

5 minutes ago, Glaciers said:

as i understand it, since you always get something worth more than 100 g1c its technically not gambling as defined under the law

 

i just dont get how the loot box argument really applies to joker boxes, other than vaguely similar opening mechanics - everything available in joker boxes can be unlocked for free ingame iirc

If you used in-game currency that you earn while playing the game to get these boxes that could be a different story. But the fact that the option to pay real money for the random rewards to come up doesn't change anything, even if you can get the stuff in-game. 

[Fortune Runner 796]

1 hour ago, ScLines said:

If you used in-game currency that you earn while playing the game to get these boxes that could be a different story. But the fact that the option to pay real money for the random rewards to come up doesn't change anything, even if you can get the stuff in-game. 

Anything permanent uses real money.

by your arguments they have no right to fund the server when its not gambling by the definition since we do get more than 100 g1c worth , as Glaciers did point out , and you didn't deny.

oh its random so its evil does not work.

[ScLines 13]

16 minutes ago, Fortune Runner said:

Anything permanent uses real money.

by your arguments they have no right to fund the server when its not gambling by the definition since we do get more than 100 g1c worth , as Glaciers did point out , and you didn't deny.

oh its random so its evil does not work.

Anything that requires to pay to get currency for those predatory monetization still doesn't change things at all. I don't pity for the developers that have to do this type of monetization to stay afloat either after seeing it game after game. And the microtransactions don't fare any better either if you watched that video, the CEO Torulf Jernstorm explains how they get players hooked and pay for stuff to 'help' the developers well-being. I do miss the old days of playing the game and getting rewarded for doing certain tasks etc. Now for some games it is all about how big your wallet is, except it is not subscription based but rather on monetization. 

Edited July 3, 2019 by ScLines

[NotZombieBiscuit 3146]

2 hours ago, Mitne said:

 

dang

 

I actually like Mitne now. Might not agree with you but gud post.

[Fortune Runner 796]

56 minutes ago, ScLines said:

Anything that requires to pay to get currency for those predatory monetization still doesn't change things at all. I don't pity for the developers that have to do this type of monetization to stay afloat either after seeing it game after game. And the microtransactions don't fare any better either if you watched that video, the CEO Torulf Jernstorm explains how they get players hooked and pay for stuff to 'help' the developers well-being. I do miss the old days of playing the game and getting rewarded for doing certain tasks etc. Now for some games it is all about how big your wallet is, except it is not subscription based but rather on monetization. 

ONCE AGAIN ARE WE TALKING ABOUT APB

[vsb 6170]

3 hours ago, ScLines said:

If you used in-game currency that you earn while playing the game to get these boxes that could be a different story. But the fact that the option to pay real money for the random rewards to come up doesn't change anything, even if you can get the stuff in-game. 

but the option to purchase legendaries for ingame cash means you dont need to spend irl money

 

2 hours ago, ScLines said:

Anything that requires to pay to get currency for those predatory monetization still doesn't change things at all. I don't pity for the developers that have to do this type of monetization to stay afloat either after seeing it game after game. And the microtransactions don't fare any better either if you watched that video, the CEO Torulf Jernstorm explains how they get players hooked and pay for stuff to 'help' the developers well-being. I do miss the old days of playing the game and getting rewarded for doing certain tasks etc. Now for some games it is all about how big your wallet is, except it is not subscription based but rather on monetization. 

i cant tell if you're doing it on purpose or not but you're repeatedly speaking about loot boxes and microtransactions as a whole, rather than the separate and different implementations each game has

[Doom32 23]

I couldn't take the video seroius, he reminded me of the breakfast guy meme.

[Fortune Runner 796]

2 hours ago, Glaciers said:

i cant tell if you're doing it on purpose or not but you're repeatedly speaking about loot boxes and microtransactions as a whole, rather than the separate and different implementations each game has

and that is why I keep asking

3 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

ONCE AGAIN ARE WE TALKING ABOUT APB

because I have no clue since OP is all over the place

[ScLines 13]

2 minutes ago, Fortune Runner said:

and that is why I keep asking

because I have no clue since OP is all over the place

Wasn't it obvious by the thread title already in the very first place? Avoid any predatory monetization whether at very first release or in future updates of a game. I'm surprised it didn't click in any of you. Surprised it triggered some of you by bringing up the mechanics this game has some in a predatory way. Sure, some of the mechanics in this game are similar to the bad type and still they shouldn't be there in my opinion. Matt has already said they will find different ways to monetize but let's hope it will not be the predatory type, there are many different types as explained in that 30 minute video and it isn't necessarily tied down to just only microtransactions or just only loot boxes. I'm pretty sure there is no such thing as seperate and different implementations of these mechanics this game has when they have been similar one way or another in other games as well. This has happenned in Fortnite, Call of Duty, Overwatch etc. just to name a few. Cosmetics and weapons that you don't need to buy for example? There are those with addictions that will spend lots of money just to 'complete' their collection. Microtransactions in general that will help the gameplay one way or the other have been psychologically manipulative and not just tied down loot boxes. The problem is a lot bigger than you think and it seems to be a common formula in almost every F2P game sadly. There are those people that will continue to deny that this games monetization (even if it looks minor) or other games out there isn't that bad and come up with excuses that I have already mentioned. I'll take subscription over most microtransactions any day whenever possible but they aren't going away so quickly as I imagine. Not unless the upcoming legislation laws around the world will come down hard on these greedy developers. If you watched that video some people will continue to deny that this game doesn't have these particular type of mechanics when it is still similar to the examples explained in that video or even found on other F2P games (and now even full priced games). Even if the microtransactions/loot boxes are in the game in a very small way it doesn't change a thing of their predatory nature.

[Fortune Runner 796]

So by this last statement of yours , then you are intentionally speaking of micro transactions and loot boxes as a whole rather than how each game implements them in different ways.

And no , I have to say , if you think APB is an " evil evil thing "  because a box exists here FOR A WHOLE DOLLAR then yeah you are not anywhere near correct.

Saying that game  over thee misused it so it must be evil here is utterly wrong on so many levels.

How many players said they paid 20 bucks on a loot box type and got what they wanted? And if not how is it evil when the prizes are worth more than a dollar?

saying the cat is sideways so everything else is as well is wrong.

 

 

PS. that means since its not APB that did it you should please stop with the paranoia its annoying people

 

Edited July 4, 2019 by Fortune Runner