LO, please listen.

[Recon_Puppy 43]

I'm starting this thread because people have made good points on both sides of the argument involving RIOT mode and the engine upgrade.

Is it good to get new content in the game? Yes. Absolutely.

Is it time for the new content? No. Absolutely not.
The time for the content isn't going to be soon. We NEED the engine upgrade before any content expansion. I'm saying this to have ease of introducing new content. If you wait on content and upgrade the Engine, however long that may take, then you'll know the code necessary for changes and be able to properly organize things on the backlines. We need you, LO, we do. We need you to follow your heart and consult your mind when it comes to these decisions. RIOT mode won't bring as much as you hope, not in the game's current state. Regardless of the server you are on, anyone  can tell there are issues with the game that needs to be fixed, and content expansions on an already broken engine is just going to make things worse.

I know that people are going to disagree, and thats fine. Something needs to be said though, and it feels like (from my end) that any advice from the playerbase, when talking about criticisms that are constructive, seem to not be getting through, not being looked at.

I want to see APB thrive just as much as the next guy, I want to see APB return to the popularity that it could be, its just in this state.. Thats not going to happen.
As for the community of APB, those who are still playing, and those who have left, please I want you to give feedback, let me know your thoughts and please, lets keep this as professional as can be.
And lets keep a neutral tone in this and be as unbiased as possible.

@MattScott

Edited May 18, 2019 by Recon_Puppy
Feedback

[vsb 6171]

if i just posted this somewhere else does it count as spam?

 

4 minutes ago, Glaciers said:

the intent is to release riot season 1 at the same time as the engine upgrade

 

theoretically, this would allow any new players lured in by the promising new game mode to experience apb without all the shitty performance issues and then orbit can dump content on them so they never leave

 

imo what’s really going to happen is riot will be an abysmal failure, the engine upgrade will be a buggy mess because it’s an engine upgrade, and orbit will be too busy scrambling to fix engine upgrade issues before the rest of the diehard community gives up on apb to pump out enough content to entice the few new players who get suckered in by riot

 

 

Edited May 18, 2019 by Glaciers
typo

[Recon_Puppy 43]

1 minute ago, Glaciers said:

if i just posted this somewhere else does it count as spam?

 

 

Oh, its fine to repost it as long as you believe in what you said. Thank you for the response by the way.
I agree, Riot mode will fail and I haven't heard that they planned to release the engine upgrade at the same time, if thats the case its going to be worse off than I assumed. They should focus on the Engine upgrade and Customer support imo.

[vsb 6171]

1 minute ago, Recon_Puppy said:

Oh, its fine to repost it as long as you believe in what you said. Thank you for the response by the way.
I agree, Riot mode will fail and I haven't heard that they planned to release the engine upgrade at the same time, if thats the case its going to be worse off than I assumed. They should focus on the Engine upgrade and Customer support imo.

 obviously a lot of people (myself included) dislike/don’t believe in riot for a variety of reasons, so it becoming the new development and content focus is doing orbit no favors with the current community 

 

but at the same time just releasing the engine upgrade will do nothing for any new players and the portion of the community that no longer plays - we’re long past the point where “apb doesn’t run like doodoo” is enough to capture everyone’s interest

 

it’s a lose/lose situation tbh, we could argue for hours about what orbit shoulda coulda woulda done but at the very least i’ll give them props for picking a direction and forging ahead

[Recon_Puppy 43]

1 minute ago, Glaciers said:

 obviously a lot of people (myself included) dislike/don’t believe in riot for a variety of reasons, so it becoming the new development and content focus is doing orbit no favors with the current community 

 

but at the same time just releasing the engine upgrade will do nothing for any new players and the portion of the community that no longer plays - we’re long past the point where “apb doesn’t run like doodoo” is enough to capture everyone’s interest

 

it’s a lose/lose situation tbh, we could argue for hours about what orbit shoulda coulda woulda done but at the very least i’ll give them props for picking a direction and forging ahead

Thats fair enough, they are sticking to their guns, and following the decision they made to the end, which is commendable. Arguably I don't think that the game would flop with just the engine upgrade. I just personally don't see that being the case, why I can't? I don't know. I just don't see it that way, the thing I've wanted the most in all of my time playing the game (On and Off since about 2015) has been an engine or a graphical update or at least performance improvements. I really want to see the game thrive once more, but I don't believe LO is taking the right approach.

[Fortune Runner 796]

21 hours ago, Recon_Puppy said:

The time for the content isn't going to be soon. We NEED the engine upgrade before any content expansion.

From what Little Orbit has said in the past , we are only testing RIOT and it is not meant to be released without the engine upgrade.

In other words it was said they are supposed to both be released together by what was said by Little Orbit.

[Recon_Puppy 43]

Just now, Fortune Runner said:

From what Little Orbit has said in the past , we are only testing RIOT and it is not meant to be released without the engine upgrade.

In other words it was said they are supposed to both be released together by what was said by Little Orbit.

I don't feel like thats a good idea. Just from a personal standpoint. I believe LO is spreading their resources too thin in that regard if that is the case. They are struggling with the servers as is I doubt they have the manpower to have the upgrade and Riot mode done properly enough to be stable at the same time. Just from what I've observed.

[Fortune Runner 796]

6 minutes ago, Recon_Puppy said:

I don't feel like thats a good idea. Just from a personal standpoint. I believe LO is spreading their resources too thin in that regard if that is the case. They are struggling with the servers as is I doubt they have the manpower to have the upgrade and Riot mode done properly enough to be stable at the same time. Just from what I've observed.

Do I believe they should focus on only the engine upgrade? hmm tough one because they see what we do not.

Do they struggle with the servers? yes and a lot of that problem happened from G1 like the cruddy hardware to the server move we were just forced to do fro that overpriced contract.

but all you can do is one foot in front of the other and keep on walking forward.

BTW hitchhiking is dangerous so I'm glad they didn't do that (its how console APB was forced on G1 who knows what could happen now then)

[Recon_Puppy 43]

I get it the servers for the most part, wasn't caused by them, but I would have much preferred they'd focus on improving the game overall, both on the back end and forefront instead of trying to spread their resources thin over all aspects that they planned for at the same time.

[Fortune Runner 796]

It will take the engine upgrade to properly fix APB's problems as well as improve APB the way you are mentioning.

This current otudated engine is the main problem why it is not fixed already

[Recon_Puppy 43]

Yeah, I acknowledge that, which still makes me further question why they aren't putting more resources to it alone instead of both it and riot mode.

[Fortune Runner 796]

Probably to get back on schedule by doing extra work to catch up.

Like if you have it planned to do one thing then another but you fall behind so you try getting both done to catch up?

Only Little Orbit can answer that one to be honest though.

[Recon_Puppy 43]

28 minutes ago, Fortune Runner said:

Probably to get back on schedule by doing extra work to catch up.

Like if you have it planned to do one thing then another but you fall behind so you try getting both done to catch up?

Only Little Orbit can answer that one to be honest though.

I agree, I was hoping for more interaction with this thread honestly, I do want to hear what they have to say, legitimately, their ideas behind their choices. Just to help really clear it up for me because I'd like to hear whats going on and I'm not hearing much currently. I typically do one at a time still, but I'm taking Online college for Video Game Art & Design so I have a bit of wiggle room.  I have an assigned week for work and then I get to do it at my pace, so.. Taking that approach I believe Little Orbit could do similarly, especially since the performance is having such a huge issue lately.

[CookiePuss 5379]

Different people are working on different thing. 

The folks working on RIOT were not pulled from 3.5.

 

As far as 3.5 is concerned there comes a point where putting more people into a project will not help. 

 

What is being released of RIOT is the pre-season version. This will be an unfinished and unpolished version of the game mode. While waiting for 3.5 to be ready, changes will still be made to RIOT in the hopes of getting it ready for Season 1 at the same time as 3.5's release. (Which will then be advertised)

 

Will any of this work? Well that I cannot say. What I can tell you is the current population doesn't matter as much as bringing in new players. Those of us left could never keep the game afloat no matter how much new content was thrown up on ARMAS. Returning players also matter less than new players. Those who left over the years have not only moved on to new things, but they've also grown older. What entertained them at 16 will likely not be the same thing that entertains them at 25. This isn't to say some old players won't come back, but to put it simply... The new current player pool represents only hundreds of players, the old player pool thousands. The new player pool dwarfs them both by comparison. Just something to keep in mind when thinking about the decisions being made by LO. 

[Recon_Puppy 43]

3 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Different people are working on different thing. 

The folks working on RIOT were not pulled from 3.5.

 

As far as 3.5 is concerned there comes a point where putting more people into a project will not help. 

 

What is being released of RIOT is the pre-season version. This will be an unfinished and unpolished version of the game mode. While waiting for 3.5 to be ready, changes will still be made to RIOT in the hopes of getting it ready for Season 1 at the same time as 3.5's release. (Which will then be advertised)

 

Will any of this work? Well that I cannot say. What I can tell you is the current population doesn't matter as much as bringing in new players. Those of us left could never keep the game afloat no matter how much new content was thrown up on ARMAS. Returning players also matter less than new players. Those who left over the years have not only moved on to new things, but they've also grown older. What entertained them at 16 will likely not be the same thing that entertains them at 25. This isn't to say some old players won't come back, but to put it simply... The new current player pool represents only hundreds of players, the old player pool thousands. The new player pool dwarfs them both by comparison. Just something to keep in mind when thinking about the decisions being made by LO. 

Why even release the pre-season if its unfinished? Thats setting them up for failure. We don't need new content, if Riot mode comes and the game still runs poorly, its not going to keep anyone. There is no use in expanding upon content in a game that barely runs.  I don't want Riot mode, not until the game itself runs better, even pre-season should hold off in my honest opinion.

[CookiePuss 5379]

2 minutes ago, Recon_Puppy said:

Why even release the pre-season if its unfinished? 

You can only polish the mode so much with the few players joining testing. 

 

3 minutes ago, Recon_Puppy said:

We don't need new content, if Riot mode comes and the game still runs poorly, its not going to keep anyone. 

As stated, season 1 RIOT is hopefully going to be released alongside 3.5.

 

4 minutes ago, Recon_Puppy said:

 I don't want Riot mode

Good news then, you will not be forced to play it. 

[Recon_Puppy 43]

5 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

You can only polish the mode so much with the few players joining testing. 

 

As stated, season 1 RIOT is hopefully going to be released alongside 3.5.

 

Good news then, you will not be forced to play it. 

Ever wonder why not many are joining the testing? They've already lost interest. We don't need riot alongside 3.5, we need to make sure when 3.5 is released that the upgrade is polished and done right.  My issue with this is that they are trying to stack on something that is being unnecessarily rushed with something they should take their time on. Riot mode could wait for the Engine upgrade to be fully done, there is no reason to have moved it to be done now. The only ones who are forcing them to do that at this point is themselves. Quite frankly, I don't see APB surviving this "Pre-season" Riot mode. There are already people getting fed up with the constant issues that the game is experiencing, they'll only get worse with this "Pre-season".

Edited May 19, 2019 by Recon_Puppy
grammar error

[CookiePuss 5379]

3 minutes ago, Recon_Puppy said:

Ever wonder why not many are joining the testing? 

Yes. 

 

It's a pain to download and install another client. 

Most players just want to play the game. 

Some players aren't interested in RIOT. 

 

But that's ok. RIOT isn't for us. Which makes sense as their aren't Enough of us left to keep the game alive anyways. 

RIOT is one part of a plan to be able to advertise APB to a new generation of players. 

 

6 minutes ago, Recon_Puppy said:

We don't need riot alongside 3.5, we need to make sure when 3.5 is released that the upgrade is polished and done right.  

Again, different teams for different projects. 

RIOT and 3.5 aren't sharing resources. 

 

7 minutes ago, Recon_Puppy said:

Riot mode could wait for the Engine upgrade to be fully done, there is no reason to have moved it to be done now. 

But then you would have an unfinished version of RIOT. 

 

8 minutes ago, Recon_Puppy said:

Quite frankly, I don't see APB surviving this "Pre-season" Riot mode. 

That's possible. I don't know anything about LOs finances or at which point they would call it quits so I cannot say. 

 

9 minutes ago, Recon_Puppy said:

 There are already people getting fed up with the constant issues that the game is experiencing, they'll only get worse with this "Pre-season".

I'm not sure why RIOT will effect server performance or the number for DDoS attacks. 

 

[Recon_Puppy 43]

2 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Yes. 

 

It's a pain to download and install another client. 

Most players just want to play the game. 

Some players aren't interested in RIOT. 

 

But that's ok. RIOT isn't for us. Which makes sense as their aren't Enough of us left to keep the game alive anyways. 

RIOT is one part of a plan to be able to advertise APB to a new generation of players. 

 

Again, different teams for different projects. 

RIOT and 3.5 aren't sharing resources. 

 

But then you would have an unfinished version of RIOT. 

 

That's possible. I don't know anything about LOs finances or at which point they would call it quits so I cannot say. 

 

I'm not sure why RIOT will effect server performance or the number for DDoS attacks. 

 

Its common theme for DDoS attacks to grow in power alongside releases. Out of the feedback I heard from people involving both the first and second testing days for Riot, they played it the first time and then lost interest in it by the second time. Riot mode should be for everyone, if you neglect the people who are still around, it'll have a negative effect, if you neglect new people, it will have a negative effect thats just how it is. It doesn't matter if there are different teams, the Riot team could be spread amongst other projects to help the backline issues. RIOT is still getting released unfinished and on a BROKEN engine. It should wait.

[CookiePuss 5379]

Just now, Recon_Puppy said:

Its common theme for DDoS attacks to grow in power alongside releases. 

 

Can you really increase from constant?

 

1 minute ago, Recon_Puppy said:

Out of the feedback I heard from people involving both the first and second testing days for Riot, they played it the first time and then lost interest in it by the second time. 

The number of participants for the tests reflect this as well. 

 

2 minutes ago, Recon_Puppy said:

 Riot mode should be for everyone, if you neglect the people who are still around, it'll have a negative effect, if you neglect new people, it will have a negative effect thats just how it is. 

It is for everyone. But it makes more sense to think of what could appealed to perhaps thousands of new players rather than what will keep the remaining 400+ average players happy since as stated that isn't enough players to keep the game from shutting down. 

 

3 minutes ago, Recon_Puppy said:

 It doesn't matter if there are different teams, the Riot team could be spread amongst other projects to help the backline issues. 

There is a point for any project at which adding more people does not help. 

[vsb 6171]

28 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Good news then, you will not be forced to play it

unless you want access to the first new content releases for apb in months :^)

[Recon_Puppy 43]

1 minute ago, CookiePuss said:

 

Can you really increase from constant?

 

The number of participants for the tests reflect this as well. 

 

It is for everyone. But it makes more sense to think of what could appealed to perhaps thousands of new players rather than what will keep the remaining 400+ average players happy since as stated that isn't enough players to keep the game from shutting down. 

 

There is a point for any project at which adding more people does not help. 

Shall I refer to you the AAA games that got DDoS'd and forced offline for a few days of their release? Battlefront 2, Battlefield 1, Battlefield 5, the list goes on for many more.
If the tests reflect that, then perhaps now is not the time for Riot mode.

As you stated, it isn't for the old players, its only for the new. Player Retention will be low, just as it has been, because of poor performance, and an unfinished Riot mode will make it worse. You need to make sure the new game mode appeals to all and can keep them in, in order for that to happen, you'll need to make a gradual learning curve and, heres the kicker, GOOD PERFORMANCE.

 

You keep stating there is no point to be adding people to anything else. Let me point it out to you that the rest of the area of the game needs all the help it can get. That means put more people on these other systems that need help. Riotmode will flop and likely tank APB with it. I don't want that to happen, thats why this thread is a thing.

[CookiePuss 5379]

Just now, Glaciers said:

unless you want access to the first new content releases for apb in months :^)

There's always a catch! 

[Cr0 328]

The RIOT project is basically like building a big hotel at an abandoned resort getting completely refurbished.

Edited May 19, 2019 by SilverCrow

[professorsnack 6]

1 hour ago, CookiePuss said:

Will any of this work? Well that I cannot say. What I can tell you is the current population doesn't matter as much as bringing in new players. Those of us left could never keep the game afloat no matter how much new content was thrown up on ARMAS. Returning players also matter less than new players. Those who left over the years have not only moved on to new things, but they've also grown older. What entertained them at 16 will likely not be the same thing that entertains them at 25. This isn't to say some old players won't come back, but to put it simply... The new current player pool represents only hundreds of players, the old player pool thousands. The new player pool dwarfs them both by comparison. Just something to keep in mind when thinking about the decisions being made by LO. 

Of course you cannot say if it will work because there is a glaring chance (and probably a safe bet) that it won't do much overall. I'm not expecting a miracle for reasons I'll get into in a moment.

 

Yeah old players don't mean anything, not like we stuck around and payed a ton of money on a game we love, and put up with a loooot of things that made many many others leave or AVOID the game. That means nothing compared to catering to a niche audience with a modified version of BR. The market is saturated with BR games, has been for years now. Press X to doubt that people will try APB just for Riot...

 

By your logic, people grow up and no longer like APB's core game mode, so let's make BR!!!! Again, market = saturated. Many other Triple A versions of BR are available and are actual Battle Royale game modes, not just modified ones.

 

I believe that was a typo, saying new is a few hundred and old is a few thousand, then saying New dwarfs it lol. So if bringing new players in is important, why the hell would you release an *unfinished, unpolished* gamemode? Do you know what player retention is? Retention means new people that come in and stick with the game. If you release a broken hot mess, new players of course might check it out, but upon realizing it's broken will most likely leave. Why stick around and wait months and months for the game to become good when you expected this brand new game mode to be finished on release? No player retention = no population increase. If RIOT's unpolished gameplay was actually good, I believe more people would be playing it currently instead of focusing on negative aspects of base game. Recon is right, people aren't testing it because it's not interesting at all to us. If it is not interesting to old players, why would a new player even care?