Why were the OCA and NTEC Test-A changes not pushed to live?

[Nitronik 348]

Those two Test-A changes were honestly pretty spot on. How come we're still waiting on them?


For those not in the loop :

NTEC : from 0.7 (live) to 0.72 TTK, 30 rounds in the magazine, Jump Accuracy nerfed

OCA : from 0.64 to 0.68 TTK

[Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 269]

Gotta let people cool off from the last weapon changes before they fly into a rage over unnecessary changes again

Edited October 2, 2018 by Weeb TheEpicGuyV2

[CookiePuss 5375]

19 minutes ago, Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 said:

Gotta let people cool off from the last weapon changes before they fly into a rage over unnecessary changes again

But unlike the previous changes, these aren't terrible.

[Mitne 724]

I got a lot of question about nerfing OCA without thinking about PMG.

[Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 269]

34 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

54 minutes ago, Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 said:

Gotta let people cool off from the last weapon changes before they fly into a rage over unnecessary changes again

But unlike the previous changes, these aren't terrible.

But it's a change to the ntec. Trust me, fits will be thrown

[Flaws 1033]

The new N-TEC changes are terrible and I hope they realise that. There is no need to nerf one of the most complex weapons to use in the game (compared to basically everything else in the game that is considered meta). The N-TEC has the most complexity of them all. Reducing what you can do once you master it is a bad move.

EDIT: The N-TEC 5 requires control of many things while almost every other weapon in the game lets you get off with only keeping track of one thing. N-TEC combines tracking, fire rate control (handling bloom depending on range), recoil control and movement + having to be aimed down the sights 90% of the time.

Most other weapons in the game either have no real recoil, no actual bloom, can be used without aiming down the sights at similar ranges as the N-TEC *cough* OSCAR *cough*.
I don't think it's the N-TEC that needs to be looked at but things like how the PMG can be used as a sniper rifle sometimes and how stupidly overpowered the OSCAR is in it's range category.

And as far as jump shooting with the N-TEC goes, I do not see why that should be nerfed. It's already balanced well enough considering the fact that once you jump, you are stuck in a specific arc that your character follows as they fall down to the ground. It's not like we can easily manoeuvre left and right mid-air. The jump shooting is useful to those who can do it correctly and have good enough aim. I don't see the point of nerfing that whatsoever.

Edited October 2, 2018 by Flaws

[CookiePuss 5375]

1 minute ago, Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 said:

But it's a change to the ntec. Trust me, fits will be thrown

Thats a good point.

[Nitronik 348]

3 hours ago, Mitne said:

I got a lot of question about nerfing OCA without thinking about PMG.

OCA currently sits at 0.64 TTK
PMG is at 0.7

Pushing it to 0.68 would give it an edge over the PMG (which is fine-ish honestly)

 

3 hours ago, Flaws said:

And as far as jump shooting with the N-TEC goes, I do not see why that should be nerfed. It's already balanced well enough considering the fact that once you jump, you are stuck in a specific arc that your character follows as they fall down to the ground. It's not like we can easily manoeuvre left and right mid-air. The jump shooting is useful to those who can do it correctly and have good enough aim. I don't see the point of nerfing that whatsoever.

if you jump shoot in the open like an idiot then yes, this applies. Otherwise it's a really effective tool for corner popping and quick CQC peeks where cover is involved, something that most ARs and SMGs are not capable of pulling off

[Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 269]

20 minutes ago, Flaws said:

The new N-TEC changes are terrible and I hope they realise that. There is no need to nerf one of the most complex weapons to use in the game (compared to basically everything else in the game that is considered meta). The N-TEC has the most complexity of them all. Reducing what you can do once you master it is a bad move.

EDIT: The N-TEC 5 requires control of many things while almost every other weapon in the game lets you get off with only keeping track of one thing. N-TEC combines tracking, fire rate control (handling bloom depending on range), recoil control and movement + having to be aimed down the sights 90% of the time.

Most other weapons in the game either have no real recoil, no actual bloom, can be used without aiming down the sights at similar ranges as the N-TEC *cough* OSCAR *cough*.
I don't think it's the N-TEC that needs to be looked at but things like how the PMG can be used as a sniper rifle sometimes and how stupidly overpowered the OSCAR is in it's range category.

And as far as jump shooting with the N-TEC goes, I do not see why that should be nerfed. It's already balanced well enough considering the fact that once you jump, you are stuck in a specific arc that your character follows as they fall down to the ground. It's not like we can easily manoeuvre left and right mid-air. The jump shooting is useful to those who can do it correctly and have good enough aim. I don't see the point of nerfing that whatsoever.

So we should be nerfing most other weapons then? LO how could you miss the mark

[TackoGirl 130]

23 minutes ago, Flaws said:

The new N-TEC changes are terrible and I hope they realise that. There is no need to nerf one of the most complex weapons to use in the game (compared to basically everything else in the game that is considered meta). The N-TEC has the most complexity of them all. Reducing what you can do once you master it is a bad move.

EDIT: The N-TEC 5 requires control of many things while almost every other weapon in the game lets you get off with only keeping track of one thing. N-TEC combines tracking, fire rate control (handling bloom depending on range), recoil control and movement + having to be aimed down the sights 90% of the time.

Most other weapons in the game either have no real recoil, no actual bloom, can be used without aiming down the sights at similar ranges as the N-TEC *cough* OSCAR *cough*.
I don't think it's the N-TEC that needs to be looked at but things like how the PMG can be used as a sniper rifle sometimes and how stupidly overpowered the OSCAR is in it's range category.

And as far as jump shooting with the N-TEC goes, I do not see why that should be nerfed. It's already balanced well enough considering the fact that once you jump, you are stuck in a specific arc that your character follows as they fall down to the ground. It's not like we can easily manoeuvre left and right mid-air. The jump shooting is useful to those who can do it correctly and have good enough aim. I don't see the point of nerfing that whatsoever.

Edited October 2, 2018 by TackoGirl

[mynd 120]

24 minutes ago, Nitronik said:

OCA currently sits at 0.64 TTK
PMG is at 0.7

Pushing it to 0.68 would give it an edge over the PMG (which is fine-ish honestly)

You do know lower is better and this is an OCA nerf.  I am confused by your logic here? Explain what you mean.

OCA nerf is fine, but they should do the PMG at the same time.

[Flaws 1033]

14 minutes ago, Nitronik said:

34 minutes ago, Flaws said:

And as far as jump shooting with the N-TEC goes, I do not see why that should be nerfed. It's already balanced well enough considering the fact that once you jump, you are stuck in a specific arc that your character follows as they fall down to the ground. It's not like we can easily manoeuvre left and right mid-air. The jump shooting is useful to those who can do it correctly and have good enough aim. I don't see the point of nerfing that whatsoever.

if you jump shoot in the open like an idiot then yes, this applies. Otherwise it's a really effective tool for corner popping and quick CQC peeks where cover is involved, something that most ARs and SMGs are not capable of pulling off

Indeed. But just because it's a possibility with the weapon, does not mean that everyone who picks up the N-TEC can efficently do it. It's not like an OSCAR where you pick it up and point and click everything at any range to win. It's supposed to be an all-around weapon but with a way higher skill cap which it currently is.

13 minutes ago, Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 said:

34 minutes ago, Flaws said:

The new N-TEC changes are terrible and I hope they realise that. There is no need to nerf one of the most complex weapons to use in the game (compared to basically everything else in the game that is considered meta). The N-TEC has the most complexity of them all. Reducing what you can do once you master it is a bad move.

EDIT: The N-TEC 5 requires control of many things while almost every other weapon in the game lets you get off with only keeping track of one thing. N-TEC combines tracking, fire rate control (handling bloom depending on range), recoil control and movement + having to be aimed down the sights 90% of the time.

Most other weapons in the game either have no real recoil, no actual bloom, can be used without aiming down the sights at similar ranges as the N-TEC *cough* OSCAR *cough*.
I don't think it's the N-TEC that needs to be looked at but things like how the PMG can be used as a sniper rifle sometimes and how stupidly overpowered the OSCAR is in it's range category.

And as far as jump shooting with the N-TEC goes, I do not see why that should be nerfed. It's already balanced well enough considering the fact that once you jump, you are stuck in a specific arc that your character follows as they fall down to the ground. It's not like we can easily manoeuvre left and right mid-air. The jump shooting is useful to those who can do it correctly and have good enough aim. I don't see the point of nerfing that whatsoever.

So we should be nerfing most other weapons then? LO how could you miss the mark

That's not the point. The N-TEC 5 is supposed to be a versatile weapon with a higher skill cap. Some weapons need to be looked at, as I mentioned above, but not "most other weapons".

People are trying to make it seem like the N-TEC beats every weapon at any range, even though an N-TEC user doesn't stand much chance against a skilled OCA in CQC for example. Or a longer range weapon like the HVR, Scout, Obeya, OBIR etc. It also lacks against OSCAR, Carbine (due to their mobility compared to the N-TEC) and so on. Edited October 2, 2018 by Flaws

[Arrowtotheknee 7]

Why not just buff the other ARs in the game to compensate and to widen the choice of playable ARs ? Ntec currently has its proper place in the game a good mid range gun that can also be use in CQC IF the player knows what the hell they are doing.

I really don't wan't more Ntec nerfs because its just gonna kill the weapon altogether and you will barely ever see anyone play with it because you can just use a gun like the obeya. 
Also because a change with a gun in APB reloaded takes fucking forever to revert or to fix.

I'm really skeptical about nerfs and buffs because most of the time, they make no fucking sense whatsoever, most of the voiced opinions on the forums are from really bad players with alot of gameplay time.
And since we're on the subject of nerfs, can we talk about the Joker RFP and its ARMAS version the RFP FANG?

 

[Nitronik 348]

10 minutes ago, Arrowtotheknee said:

Why not just buff the other ARs in the game to compensate and to widen the choice of playable ARs ? Ntec currently has its proper place in the game a good mid range gun that can also be use in CQC IF the player knows what the hell they are doing.
 

Because the STAR would become honestly frightening and the other AR options are pretty damn good, problem is they're either a legendary (NTEC-7) or locked behind a hefty pay gate (FAR)

Assuming someone is bad is a pretty good argument too :^)

15 minutes ago, Arrowtotheknee said:

And since we're on the subject of nerfs, can we talk about the Joker RFP and its ARMAS version the RFP FANG?

 

Epic forum quotes !

I wanted to say, I did mention nerfing the RFP, and it clearly needs one - I made the stupid mistake of pairing it together with the idea of looking at the .45 as well

[Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 269]

But on a serious note, the ntec isn't okay, and these nerfs, if it does receive it, will just be a stopgap. It doesn't address the main issue of the ntec

[Arrowtotheknee 7]

8 minutes ago, Nitronik said:

Because the STAR would become honestly frightening and the other AR options are pretty damn good, problem is they're either a legendary (NTEC-7) or locked behind a hefty pay gate (FAR)

Assuming someone is bad is a pretty good argument too :^) Epic forum quotes !

I wanted to say, I did mention nerfing the RFP, and it clearly needs one - I made the stupid mistake of pairing it together with the idea of looking at the .45 as well

I agree that the star is fine as is but the other guns definitely need to be tuned up. You don't seem them used very often for a good reason. The Ursus is definitely strong but in most cases, they get absolutely shredded in CQC and the FAR? well i never got to play with it because i can't afford it https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/025/382/Screen_Shot_2018-02-06_at_3.37.14_PM.jpg

And when there was a very large discussion about the shredder when it was obviously broken. There were alot of veteran players who were saying without being satire that the gun is completely fine and should be left as is. That and other situations in the past is why im so damn skeptical about most forum warriors opinions on gun balance and changes. And i used the word most, if you feel like you were being included in that list, maybe you subconsciously agree 

[Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 269]

8 minutes ago, Arrowtotheknee said:

I agree that the star is fine as is but the other guns definitely need to be tuned up. You don't seem them used very often for a good reason. The Ursus is definitely strong but in most cases, they get absolutely shredded in CQC and the FAR? well i never got to play with it because i can't afford it https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/025/382/Screen_Shot_2018-02-06_at_3.37.14_PM.jpg

And when there was a very large discussion about the shredder when it was obviously broken. There were alot of veteran players who were saying without being satire that the gun is completely fine and should be left as is. That and other situations in the past is why im so damn skeptical about most forum warriors opinions on gun balance and changes. And i used the word most, if you feel like you were being included in that list, maybe you subconsciously agree 

You say buff other guns, could you give an example of what guns you mean

[Arrowtotheknee 7]

7 minutes ago, Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 said:

16 minutes ago, Arrowtotheknee said:

I agree that the star is fine as is but the other guns definitely need to be tuned up. You don't seem them used very often for a good reason. The Ursus is definitely strong but in most cases, they get absolutely shredded in CQC and the FAR? well i never got to play with it because i can't afford it https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/025/382/Screen_Shot_2018-02-06_at_3.37.14_PM.jpg

And when there was a very large discussion about the shredder when it was obviously broken. There were alot of veteran players who were saying without being satire that the gun is completely fine and should be left as is. That and other situations in the past is why im so damn skeptical about most forum warriors opinions on gun balance and changes. And i used the word most, if you feel like you were being included in that list, maybe you subconsciously agree 

You say buff other guns, could you give an example of what guns you mean

Sure, buff the LCR, AR-97, ARTEMIS ISSR, SCOPED NTEC maybe the Cobra?

[Nitronik 348]

LCR, AR-97 and Cobra are fine

Cobra is finally decent after many, many tweaks. You don't see it much because no one wants to drop 30 bucks on a virtual weapon

LCR and AR-97 are part of the "longer range" AR niche (compare to NTEC and STAR being purebred AR and ATAC being a CQC AR) so technically they are not even meant to compete with the N-TEC itself


LCR PR2 has insane range with the TTK of an OBIR while the AR-97 works pretty well for near-marksman rifle ranges, with lots of overdamage to boot

They don't even sell the LCR anymore!

ISSR-a is the only one that could totally use another buff, but again you won't see it used much when the ISSR-b exists and when guns cost as much as they do

  Edited October 2, 2018 by Nitronik

[Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 269]

10 minutes ago, Arrowtotheknee said:

Sure, buff the LCR, AR-97, ARTEMIS ISSR, SCOPED NTEC maybe the Cobra?

Just so you know, all the guns you just listed did receive changes recently. Have you tried them out yet?

[Nitronik 348]

2 hours ago, Flaws said:

The new N-TEC changes are terrible and I hope they realise that. There is no need to nerf one of the most complex weapons to use in the game (compared to basically everything else in the game that is considered meta). The N-TEC has the most complexity of them all. Reducing what you can do once you master it is a bad move.

EDIT: The N-TEC 5 requires control of many things while almost every other weapon in the game lets you get off with only keeping track of one thing. N-TEC combines tracking, fire rate control (handling bloom depending on range), recoil control and movement + having to be aimed down the sights 90% of the time.

Most other weapons in the game either have no real recoil, no actual bloom, can be used without aiming down the sights at similar ranges as the N-TEC *cough* OSCAR *cough*.
I don't think it's the N-TEC that needs to be looked at but things like how the PMG can be used as a sniper rifle sometimes and how stupidly overpowered the OSCAR is in it's range category.

I wanted to pick this post apart earlier but here we go

Honestly you are *way* overplaying the complexity of the NTEC.
Taking advantage of positioning is not inherent to the NTEC itself - all guns require good positioning to make use of them, even something as boring as the OCA - and there's *many* examples of bloom control in the game, such as the CR762, the Misery, the COBR-A, the Carbine (if you want to poke at longer ranges or just not have a bent barrel)

Recoil control on the N-TEC? LMAO

I personally think it's a fair trade off for a gun that is so apparently so flexible (it is more flexible than a bunch of options not meant to be flexible, I'll give you that) to take really minor nerfs - you're not destroying it with shit like a 0.8 ttk

  Edited October 2, 2018 by Nitronik

[SLICKIEM 118]

People acting like those N-TEC changes are gonna make their Chad weapon useless. .02 ms downgrade and less meme jump accuracy makes little to no difference on actual gameplay. You really aren't shooting before landing a jump unless you are 7m and closer anyways, you'll be fine.

That OCA change however is pretty heavy, I imagine it would be a lot harder to deal with shotguns, not having that big of a TTK advantage on them anymore.

[Nitronik 348]

1 minute ago, SLICKIEM said:

People acting like those N-TEC changes are gonna make their Chad weapon useless. .02 ms downgrade and less meme jump accuracy makes little to no difference on actual gameplay. You really aren't shooting before landing a jump unless you are 7m and closer anyways, you'll be fine.

That OCA change however is pretty heavy, I imagine it would be a lot harder to deal with shotguns, not having that big of a TTK advantage on them anymore.

The OCA was iffy against shotties back when both were at 0.7, right now pump shotties are sitting at 0.73 / 0.77 which would widen the gap even more, and the 0.68ttk would give it an edge over the PMG

[Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 269]

2 minutes ago, SLICKIEM said:

People acting like those N-TEC changes are gonna make their Chad weapon useless. .02 ms downgrade and less meme jump accuracy makes little to no difference on actual gameplay. You really aren't shooting before landing a jump unless you are 7m and closer anyways, you'll be fine.

That OCA change however is pretty heavy, I imagine it would be a lot harder to deal with shotguns, not having that big of a TTK advantage on them anymore.

Oh no, 0.02 seconds is too much. So is -2 bullets from a mag. It will ruin the gun, making it unplayable. We'll just use the CR762 have to learn a new gun



/s

[Arrowtotheknee 7]

8 minutes ago, Weeb TheEpicGuyV2 said:

20 minutes ago, Arrowtotheknee said:

Sure, buff the LCR, AR-97, ARTEMIS ISSR, SCOPED NTEC maybe the Cobra?

Just so you know, all the guns you just listed did receive changes recently. Have you tried them out yet?

Yes i did and the changes were definitely beneficial to the kit but does it make it viable to a point where players are comfortable in using it against a good team? no, it does not. Players are still more comfortable using OCA/PMG/NTEC/HVR/OBEYA/SHOTGUNS because they are good at what they do in most situations. Just like the cars and the mods in this game, there is a very strong meta that cannot be challenged by these subpar guns that went through a few tweaks here and there to make the gun feel a bit better. In most situations, its not just two players out in the open standing still and shooting at eachother and seeing who kills who first. There is cover, there are other players who flank/tag you, there is car gameplay, there are a million nades thrown at you relentlessly *cough low yields cough*.