Weapon Balance - Community discussion

[Tobii 346]

4 minutes ago, GhosT said:

STAR doesn't compete as it's slower, deals less damage and has a slower recovery time.

ATAC can't do much against the N-TEC on range.

Carbine is the same as the ATAC, it's mostly a CQC weapon.

Ursus is slower than the N-TEC in both fire rate and accuracy recovery.

Obeya can only stand it's ground at higher ranges, the N-TEC can easily outgun it.

 

None of these weapons are good at 0m up to 60m, they only fill their own roles within these ranges, and become way worse than the N-TEC out of their designed range.

 

 

Edit: By the way, your picture makes no sense. Why would I go to the forums and complain about the N-TEC when I'm having a JG in an open area?

That's my risk I'm taking and I know I'll be defenseless if I get shot at by anything.

 

 

Sorry GhosT bae

[Excalibur! 207]

Like if this game turns around open areas and 50m fights ALL the time. Please stop.

[GhosT 1301]

2 minutes ago, Ken2 said:

Boy you are so wrong...

Star, yes it does.

Atac, if you learn to use it, yes it does.

Carabine destroys anything up to 50m if you dont find quick cover.

Ursus need 5 bullets and with irl3 is an obeya upgrade... god if used that gun.

Obeya can destroy an ntec 50m+, i use it with cj3 all the time, and every time i use this gun it doesnt matter who is in the other team they would run instantly to find cover.

Oscar, check the vid posted...

 

Stop embarassing yourself, its all about gameplay, enviroment and tactics. You can outperform ANY gun playing properly. This is not cod or cs, stop pulling your favourite games balances into apb.

 

I think you fail to understand that none of these weapons are as versatile as the N-TEC.

[NotZombieBiscuit 3146]

Versatile =/= OP

[Excalibur! 207]

5 minutes ago, GhosT said:

 

I think you fail to understand that none of these weapons are as versatile as the N-TEC.

Yes they are. Even if they wouldnt, you can cover its weaknesses with your secondary, as any experienced player DOES?

Do you know that there are other elements appart of a primary weapon to play the game and kill enemies???

 

Do you forget about opgl and osmaw can kill 1 hit?

 

Edited May 27, 2018 by Ken2

[DouglasFalcon 125]

2 minutes ago, Nejekur said:

The big ones to me are the N-TEC and HVR 762. It's the same thing for both too, they're just to overall effective.

The ntec is supposed to dominate midrange which is fine, but with even half a brain you can reliably beat smgs and shotguns in their own ranges, and obeyas in theirs. I'm not really sure what you'd do to make it worse at cqc and long range without touching its mid ability, but it just really needs to be toned down.

The HVR is supposed to be the dominant gun in long range, and its not as overpowering in other ranges, but theirs alot of things you can do with it in cqc that need to be fixed. I'd personally like to see it given a damage curve like the DMR, where it has lower damage in CQC but ramps up to full at longer ranges. if it equaled the scout in damage (550) until about 50m, then went up to its full damage (850), you'd fix that problem and give the poor scout a more defined role as the short range sniper.

I also thought about the reverse dropoff mechanic, but then HVR would become superior to DMR in any way basically.
The big issue with HVR at its current state (and I feel like this is very similar to the problem with N-TEC) is that it's so good at what it does that there's no reason, on paper, to use any other sniper (AR for the N-TEC case).
DMR is better than HVR only past 88 metres (lol), Scout is only good when you and your opponent have no cover, Dog Ear is only good until like 60-70 metres.

 

N-TEC and HVR to me feel like "Jack-of-all trades, masters of all" weapons. They're so good that they invalidate their alternatives

[GhosT 1301]

1 minute ago, Ken2 said:

Yes they are. Even if they wouldnt, you can cover its weaknesses with your secondary, as any experienced player DOES?

Do you know that there are other elements appart of a primary weapon to play the game and kill enemies???

 

Do you forget about opgl and osmaw can kill 1 hit?

Don't even try to balance out other weapons by equipping a secondary, when the N-TEC doesn't need one to begin with.

Why are you suddenly bringing in the most situational weapons in the game?

 

2 minutes ago, NotZombieBiscuit said:

Versatile =/= OP

That is true, there are a few versatile all-range weapons in the game, but the N-TEC is a straight upgrade to all of those.

[Excalibur! 207]

IMPOSSIBLE to reason with a silver that just limits himself to cry nerf a single weapon for YEARS and when its done, it gets reversed in no time because people realize that the gun it may be not as good or people who are good still doing well with it despise the nerf like it can be show in this IMAGE:

Post nerf, cj3, no hs3.

 

Its not the size of the gun its the player using it...

[Excalibur! 207]

1 minute ago, GhosT said:

Don't even try to balance out other weapons by equipping a secondary, when the N-TEC doesn't need one to begin with.

Why are you suddenly bringing in the most situational weapons in the game?

 

That is true, there are a few versatile all-range weapons in the game, but the N-TEC is a straight upgrade to all of those.

You can't make every weapon work at every range. The less we need are pointman guns outguning nhvrs at 90m... you are ridiculous.

[DouglasFalcon 125]

Just now, Ken2 said:

You can't make every weapon work at every range. The less we need are pointman guns outguning nhvrs at 90m... you are ridiculous.

That's exactly the wrong thing with N-TEC tho, lmao

[Tobii 346]

2 minutes ago, Ken2 said:

IMPOSSIBLE to reason with a silver that just limits himself to cry nerf a single weapon for YEARS and when its done, it gets reversed in no time because people realize that the gun it may be not as good or people who are good still doing well with it despise the nerf like it can be show in this IMAGE:

 

Post nerf, cj3, no hs3.

 

Its not the size of the gun its the player using it...

4

What's your point?

[GhosT 1301]

Just now, Ken2 said:

IMPOSSIBLE to reason with a silver that just limits himself to cry nerf a single weapon for YEARS and when its done, it gets reversed in no time because people realize that the gun it may be not as good or people who are good still doing well with it despise the nerf like it can be show in this IMAGE:

 

Post nerf, cj3, no hs3.

 

Its not the size of the gun its the player using it...

 

Haven't been silver since 2011, nor have I ever been crying for nerfs. The only guns I complained about have been nerfed and have never been reverted.

Now what's your point on that picture? Of course a good player will be demolishing others with a good weapon.

 

2 minutes ago, Ken2 said:

You can't make every weapon work at every range. The less we need are pointman guns outguning nhvrs at 90m... you are ridiculous.

That's not what I'm asking for, and that's literally what the problem of the N-TEC is.

[MrM0dZ 55]

5 minutes ago, Ken2 said:

IMPOSSIBLE to reason with a silver that just limits himself to cry nerf a single weapon for YEARS and when its done, it gets reversed in no time because people realize that the gun it may be not as good or people who are good still doing well with it despise the nerf like it can be show in this IMAGE:

Post nerf, cj3, no hs3.

 

Its not the size of the gun its the player using it...

i got MVP on baylan FC yesterday using a stock STAR 556,your argument is not valid bro

 

[Excalibur! 207]

3 minutes ago, DouglasFalcon said:

That's exactly the wrong thing with N-TEC tho, lmao

If you are outguned by ntec at cqc while you are using pointman, you have skill problems. If you are outgunned at mid range against ntec using oscar or carabine, you have skills problems. If you are outgunned by ntec at long range while using most marksman or sniper guns, you have skill problems.

 

Notice that not every gun is able to just go outside in an open area and just take down anyone. For example obir requires you get cover all the time, its amazing for pop up/corner to corner fights.

[Excalibur! 207]

4 minutes ago, GhosT said:

 

Haven't been silver since 2011, nor have I ever been crying for nerfs. The only guns I complained about have been nerfed and have never been reverted.

Now what's your point on that picture? Of course a good player will be demolishing others with a good weapon.

 

That's not what I'm asking for, and that's literally what the problem of the N-TEC is.

Is not a problem, you yourself agreed that being versatile doesnt mean its op. In good hands can be troubly, yes, but it can be outplayed at any range by any gun. it doesnt EXCELS at nothing.

Nerfing its quality will get a pop drop just like the last time its been nerfed and rebuffed once again.

[Excalibur! 207]

8 minutes ago, MrM0dZ said:

i got MVP on baylan FC yesterday using a stock STAR 556,your argument is not valid bro

 

And so i did, i removed the pic... but i have an older one. Thats why you cant say ntec its OP when you can do well with any gun if you know what you are doing.

 

You didnt get my point anyways.

Edited May 27, 2018 by Ken2

[DouglasFalcon 125]

3 minutes ago, Ken2 said:

If you are outguned by ntec at cqc while you are using pointman, you have skill problems. If you are outgunned at mid range against ntec using oscar or carabine, you have skills problems. If you are outgunned by ntec at long range while using most marksman or sniper guns, you have skill problems.

 

Notice that not every gun is able to just go outside in an open area and just take down anyone. For example obir requires you get cover all the time, its amazing for pop up/corner to corner fights.

Me tryna understand your point of view:

 

 

Seriously tho I thing we should just ignore this guy at this point

[Tobii 346]

Quote

 

Joker SR115 Carbine Carabine

A modular Joker Carbine Carabine with attachments for a single custom Modification.

(nautical or rock climbing) To attach via carabiner.

 

Edited May 27, 2018 by Tobii

[Excalibur! 207]

2 minutes ago, DouglasFalcon said:

Me tryna understand your point of view:

 

 

Seriously tho I thing we should just ignore this guy at this point

Go ahead, is not you who needs to learn to play, the one that needs to read me.

I am not even discussing with you, not sure why do you feel so entitled...

[yourrandomnobody74 104]

31 minutes ago, GhosT said:

I'm going to disagree on that, the pre-nerf N-TEC was even stronger than the one we have right now, it was a legit problem to most of the community.

Bringing back the jump shot accuracy of the scout isn't a good idea either. You could accurately shoot people while flying just as fast as sprinting, while having pin point accuracy. To top that off, you could do that over cars and walls, which made it really powerful, and a few objectives very hard to attack/defend. The only downside was that your movement path was predictable, but that didn't balance it out.

 

 

The only changes I would like to see about the two problematic weapons would be to slow down the recovery time of the N-TEC by a little bit, so it isn't as spammable as it is right now. And about the H-VR.. it's a tough one, without making it bad at the same time. A damage reduction to 750 instead of 850 would probably be fine, and a decrease the crouching accuracy while not aiming down the sights.

 

The next problem would probably be the OSCAR, which has been a mainstream weapon for a long time, until people discovered that the N-TEC is more reliable and easier to play.

The OSCAR with RS3 can be hip fired at extreme ranges, and has been a controversial topic for a long time.

That's the thing, if you start the nerf circle, there has to be a gun that becomes dominant over the other. A test district, as mentioned by the user you've quoted, would be fantastic to test out the issues people have with some guns.

I find that the NTEC's current state is a nice balance point, from which on other guns are supposed to be buffed and/or nerfed. It's supposed to be the most versatile gun and most played gun, like the AK in CS (IMO)

The Scout part, as I've made a post on it as well, I disagree on. A compromise would be to make it like in CS, but that would be essentially the same thing just a bit worse.

The HVR, on the damage part you're 100% right, heck I'd even try out 720dmg, like in the old high ttk servers. You have a point on the noscoping part as well. You can noscope to extreme ranges, nerfing it by making the crosshair bigger (a.k.a decreasing crouching accuracy as mentioned), would be interesting to play test at least.

 

 

[GhosT 1301]

2 minutes ago, Ken2 said:

If you are outguned by ntec at cqc while you are using pointman, you have skill problems. If you are outgunned at mid range against ntec using oscar or carabine, you have skills problems. If you are outgunned by ntec at long range while using most marksman or sniper guns, you have skill problems.

 

Notice that not every gun is able to just go outside in an open area and just take down anyone. For example obir requires you get cover all the time, its amazing for pop up/corner to corner fights.

Excuse me, what's wrong with you? You keep twisting arguments and make up things I've never mentioned. Why is it suddenly a skill problem?

I don't even know how many times I have to explain you what's wrong with the N-TEC.

At this point you're either incapable of reading and understanding things, or you're just trolling.

 

Just now, Ken2 said:

Is not a problem, you yourself agreed that being versatile doesnt mean its op. In good hands can be troubly, yes, but it can be outplayed at any range by any gun. it doesnt EXCELS at nothing.

Nerfing its quality will get a pop drop just like the last time its been nerfed and rebuffed once again.

 

Again, versatile doesn't mean overpowered.

Theres are a few versatile weapons in APB that compare to the N-TEC, some of these are the FAR, the S1-FA, or the STAR. The N-TEC is better than them in every way.

[Excalibur! 207]

Just now, GhosT said:

Excuse me, what's wrong with you? You keep twisting arguments and make up things I've never mentioned. Why is it suddenly a skill problem?

I don't even know how many times I have to explain you what's wrong with the N-TEC.

At this point you're either incapable of reading and understanding things, or you're just trolling.

 

 

Again, versatile doesn't mean overpowered.

Theres are a few versatile weapons in APB that compare to the N-TEC, some of these are the FAR, the S1-FA, or the STAR. The N-TEC is better than them in every way.

Why is a skill problem? You need to check what players mostly complain about guns or ask for nerfs in the first place.

 

Thats why you ask for buffs and not nerfs, if you feel that a gun is weaker than other in the same category you should ask for a buff, not a nerf.

[GhosT 1301]

9 minutes ago, 悲しい春 said:

That's the thing, if you start the nerf circle, there has to be a gun that becomes dominant over the other. A test district, as mentioned by the user you've quoted, would be fantastic to test out the issues people have with some guns.

I find that the NTEC's current state is a nice balance point, from which on other guns are supposed to be buffed and/or nerfed. It's supposed to be the most versatile gun and most played gun, like the AK in CS (IMO)

The Scout part, as I've made a post on it as well, I disagree on. A compromise would be to make it like in CS, but that would be essentially the same thing just a bit worse.

The HVR, on the damage part you're 100% right, heck I'd even try out 720dmg, like in the old high ttk servers. You have a point on the noscoping part as well. You can noscope to extreme ranges, nerfing it by making the crosshair bigger (a.k.a decreasing crouching accuracy as mentioned), would be interesting to play test at least.

 

 

 

Finally someone that knows what he's talking about.

In my opinion, the N-TEC kills too fast at most ranges, and should be slowed down a little bit by lowering the recovery time.

Then balance all the weak guns around it so they're comparable to the N-TEC, and not just flat-out weaker.

 

I fear that if we balance guns around the current N-TEC, we'll be having tons of weapons that kill incredibly fast with little time to react and outgun your opponent, which results in a game that plays like call of duty, where skill isn't all too important.

 

Edited May 27, 2018 by GhosT
Removed Ken2s quote and edited wording.

[Tobii 346]

8 minutes ago, 悲しい春 said:

That's the thing, if you start the nerf circle, there has to be a gun that becomes dominant over the other. A test district, as mentioned by the user you've quoted, would be fantastic to test out the issues people have with some guns.

I find that the NTEC's current state is a nice balance point, from which on other guns are supposed to be buffed and/or nerfed. It's supposed to be the most versatile gun and most played gun, like the AK in CS (IMO)

The Scout part, as I've made a post on it as well, I disagree on. A compromise would be to make it like in CS, but that would be essentially the same thing just a bit worse.

The HVR, on the damage part you're 100% right, heck I'd even try out 720dmg, like in the old high ttk servers. You have a point on the noscoping part as well. You can noscope to extreme ranges, nerfing it by making the crosshair bigger (a.k.a decreasing crouching accuracy as mentioned), would be interesting to play test at least.

 

 

I could kiss you! 

[Excalibur! 207]

Just now, GhosT said:

 

Finally someone that knows what he's talking about.

In my opinion, the N-TEC kills too fast at most ranges, and should be slowed down a little bit by lowering the recovery time.

Then balance all the weak guns around it so they're comparable to the N-TEC, and not just flat-out weaker.

 

I fear that if we balance guns around the current N-TEC, we'll be having tons of weapons that kill incredibly fast with little time to react and outgun your opponent.

 

 

 

If you'd buff every weapon in APB to be in the same line as the N-TEC, you'll have a game with guns that kill incredibly fast with no time to react and outgun your opponent, sort of what call of duty is.

So yeah, lets every gun a ntec and make the game BORING. Really good idea!!!

 

Its imposible to get killed as fast as you mention at more than 40m with the current character speed and cover you can get. If you get killed all the time by ntec at that kind of range, then its really  a SKILL issue.