Personal thoughts about the ongoing changes.

[Tech-San 5]

Hello everybody, APB has been my main game for almost 8 years or so now so I'd say I know a lot about this game and how it is intended to be.
Now please bear with me as English is not my native language. Also, this is going to be a long thread where I just suggest my personally thought about the ongoing changes and updates, so feel free to disagree with me.

1- Battleye 
Battleye currently is useful against the majority of the cheaters that use either paid or public third-party tools, but when it comes to private hacks or some macros like the ones you can make with gaming mouses it just doesn't work. 

2- Unbans
The massive unbans helped aiding some issues like false bans and so on, but I personally see that stripping accounts money and JT is not even considered a punishment. 
People that are known to be cheating that has been caught and admitted doing so should not have been unbanned. I have seen proofs of old GMs admitting that they know that some people cheat and admit that they just ''don't ban some people''. These guys are well known, and they should not have been unbanned. If people can closet their way to max ranks and then get their accounts back that easily then where is fairness in this game? Can I just cheat my way to max without anybody acting against me? 

3- Weapons
This is the thing that bugs me the most as an RTW player. I do agree that some guns should be buffed, and some should be nerfed, BUT to balance a gun you need to take a lot of stuff into consideration. The most important aspect would be the skill to use the gun which is from what I've seen is left out of consideration.

A-Shotguns
The shotguns buff, I have personally not seen anybody complain about them. They are okay if you took the time to learn how to master them in their intended range, close range. I think they should be left untouched with some minor buffs to certain shotguns only and not tinkering with every gun in the game! You're going to end up changing the whole game and telling everyone that spent the time and dedication to develop their skills a big F you. 

B-Snipers 
The NHVR nerf is the most ridiculous change I've seen so far. A shot is a shot. Whether you take it from 100m or 5m, realistically, it should do more damage in the close range.  Now the main thing about sniping in APB is that It's not a one-shot kill game. You tag someone and then you must end them up, there's some skill to it. Having a 1 shot sniper is not how this game was designed or desired to be by anybody that played APB for long enough. Killing someone in close range with NHVR is not easy. You must train a lot and have some courage to do it in the middle of the battle as it's a matter of luck. The thing that nobody gets is that APB is not about having balanced guns. For example, you have True Ogre which is good in close range if you manage to shoot before the enemy takes you down because of the timer on it, but when it comes to long - medium or basically anything longer than 15-20m it's useless. So, if your opp has a very good gun in close-range then your tactic should be to use a long - medium range weapon which will render his gun useless on you! Most of the people complaining about NHVR are either newcomers or people that just can’t acquire the skill to use the sniper.
Changing NHVR is changing a very important aspect of APB Reloaded.
               
                        
C-Rifles
Instead of nerfing the okay guns I think Little Orbit should first ask the community about which guns should be nerfed with the in-game time on each one voting into consideration. New players come to the game with little to no background on how APB works or how was it designed for.
Ntec is very op and should be nerfed in close range as well as having some horizontal recoil to it.
ATAC should have much more recoil and lower TTK as well as a range nerf. A blind man can use ATAC.
Ursus is fine it just needs a slight range nerf. You can learn from Ursus how NTEC should behave in close range. Because NTEC is literally good for everything now. I’m talking about stock guns here with no mods.

D- Pistols
RFP is op. 
Yukon nerf was too hard lower fire rate a bit 0.045 to 0.078 is trolling.
UL3s are absolute trash except bloody mary.

E- Explosives 
Add cooldown timer or something to OPGL it's not fun 

F-Legendaries
I understand that G1 and Little Orbit are different companies with different goals, but the new company has to work around what the old one did without compromising the customer's rights. Nerfing legendaries is not fine. If a legendary has no potential advantage then it shouldn't be called that in the first place. I have seen a GM around that said that Legendaries are supposed to be ''Special'' and not powerful. This is not how APB works. This is not Team Fortress 2. This is APB. If you're going to spend either $100 on JMB or grind 3.5mill for a gun that sucks and just looks cool while a 3k gun from a contact can easily get you owned then this is what I consider breaking the game. I'm not talking about OPing legendaries here. I'm talking about tinkering with decent guns that are hard to get for a reason. You pay more for a Bugatti than a Toyota Corolla for a reason. In short, leave the Ogre alone. Yukon nerf is too much, yes it was a bug, but that's not our fault. I bought a faulty gun that has not been fixed for 2 years and then I get my gun to become worthless. Now it can be beaten by probably any other secondary which really misses out on the ''Legendary'' part. Even the marksman mode mod is not as good as a real RFP. 

4- Engine
Yes, that's the thing we've been looking for the whole time. Not major weapon changes. Don't get me wrong I love how Little Orbit is excited at changing a lot of stuff to the ''better'' but please, some stuff are just not meant to be changed. I appreciate your hardworking but I'd politely suggest Little Orbit to focus on the more important changes. 


Final Points:

1-APB is skill based. 
2-You're going to fast without having the time to think twice about what you're doing.
3-Too many changes and the game will lose its integrity and identity which is exactly what happened with G1 when they took over APB.
4-Nerf obviously OP guns such as stock NTEC-ATAC-RFP-PMG...etc
5-Please don't tinker with the modifications. 
6-Please don't tinker with the skill-based weapons and range specific guns like Ogre. 

My message to Little Orbit: 
I appreciate your work and I value it, the game is getting the attention it has always needed. Thank you Little Orbit and thank you, everyone, that has contributed in making this game up and still going to this day. However, I personally think these changes are going too fast and some of them will damage the game instead of fixing a broken feature. I strongly hope you reconsider these changes and fine-tune them to meet the requirements of how APB really is and how it has always been and how balanced content should be. Afterall, APB is not about balance, It's about teamwork and tactics. 

I will probably edit this thread as I spend more time with the new changes, I hope I can play APB how I used to do every day in the past 8 years because this game means a lot to me. I understand many things have to change, actually, that's what I've been asking for the whole time, but I noticed that these changing are going in the opposite direction of what APB has always been going to. It hurts to see a game I have loved for what it is being changed according to what players that have not spent as much time on the game and not really know much about it. 

Thank you for your time and I hope you have a nice day everybody.

 

 

Btw pls add better mailing system and increase the attachment capacity I send my other characters over 40 msgs to transfer my mods and stuff.

yes this account was made in 2014, i have many accounts.
 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Tech-San

[Nite 261]

4 minutes ago, Tech-San said:

A shot is a shot. Whether you take it from 100m or 5m

Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth DMR-SD the wise?

[Ebola-Chan 59]

playing for 8 years and saying that nhvr shouldnt get nerfed
yeah.. okay.
because getting zoned out for 10 seconds (at best) from 1 shot is okay and balanced
just for the record yesterday i played on otw amd got hit from my own FIRE WORK and then i just got 1 shot from an nhvr
so yeah the nhvr still does 85 you just have to to be zoomed in

[Tech-San 5]

Just now, Ebola-Chan said:

playing for 8 years and saying that nhvr shouldnt get nerfed
yeah.. okay.
because getting zoned out for 10 seconds (at best) from 1 shot is okay and balanced
just for the record yesterday i played on otw amd got hit from my own FIRE WORK and then i just got 1 shot from an nhvr
so yeah the nhvr still does 85 you just have to to be zoomed in

It does need luck and some skill to be able to do that in close range. Anyway, the way they went around it is not the best way. If you get shot from 5m it should do the same as if you got shot from 50m matter of fact it should even do more dmg. 

7 minutes ago, Nite said:

13 minutes ago, Tech-San said:

A shot is a shot. Whether you take it from 100m or 5m

Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth DMR-SD the wise?

no

[Psygo 15]

Funny part is the Yukon isn't getting nerfed to death like everyone assumes, it'll be a regular mountie with a burst fire mode, which is exactly what it's intended to be

[Nite 261]

7 minutes ago, Tech-San said:

no

I thought not. It's not a story the Old Dev Team would tell you. It's a RTW legend. Darth DMR-SD was a Dark Lord of the Sniper role, so powerful and so wise he could use the weapon stats to influence the damage drop off to invert itself into a damage ramp… He had such a knowledge of the balance landscape that he could even kill his targets in less than the standard number of shots. The dark side of Weapon Balance is a pathway to many weapon mechanics some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful… the only thing he was afraid of was being overshadowed, which eventually, of course, he was. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice (the N-HVR) everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. Ironic. He could save others from near irrelevance, but not himself. Edited August 9, 2018 by Nite

[Tech-San 5]

3 minutes ago, Psygo said:

Funny part is the Yukon isn't getting nerfed to death like everyone assumes, it'll be a regular mountie with a burst fire mode, which is exactly what it's intended to be

it was bugged for 2 years. what kind of bug takes 2 years to fix? it was intended to have it bugged int he first place to milk money off of it 

1 minute ago, Nite said:

8 minutes ago, Tech-San said:

It does need luck and some skill to be able to do that in close range. Anyway, the way they went around it is not the best way. If you get shot from 5m it should do the same as if you got shot from 50m matter of fact it should even do more dmg.  no

I thought not. It's not a story the Old Dev Team would tell you. It's a RTW legend. Darth DMR-SD was a Dark Lord of the Sniper role, so powerful and so wise he could use the weapon stats to influence the damage drop off to invert itself into a damage ramp… He had such a knowledge of the balance landscape that he could even kill his targets in less than the standard number of shots. The dark side of Weapon Balance is a pathway to many weapon mechanics some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful… the only thing he was afraid of was being overshadowed, which eventually, of course, he was. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice (the N-HVR) everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. Ironic. He could save others from near irrelevance, but not himself.

ok

[Nite 261]

3 minutes ago, Tech-San said:

it was bugged for 2 years. what kind of bug takes 2 years to fix? it was intended to have it bugged int he first place to milk money off of it

That's been the popular thought for some time now, but honestly there's no way to prove it without some level of first hand information. No real point stressing about it at this stage.

Besides, its not like u can't still kill people with the Yukon, you just can't cheat people out of CQC kills by hiding behind a corner and bullet-blitzing your pursuer when they get close enough.

[Percocet 194]

25 minutes ago, Tech-San said:

B-Snipers 
The NHVR nerf is the most ridiculous change I've seen so far. A shot is a shot. Whether you take it from 100m or 5m, realistically, it should do more damage in the close range.  Now the main thing about sniping in APB is that It's not a one-shot kill game. You tag someone and then you must end them up, there's some skill to it. Having a 1 shot sniper is not how this game was designed or desired to be by anybody that played APB for long enough. Killing someone in close range with NHVR is not easy. You must train a lot and have some courage to do it in the middle of the battle as it's a matter of luck. The thing that nobody gets is that APB is not about having balanced guns. For example, you have True Ogre which is good in close range if you manage to shoot before the enemy takes you down because of the timer on it, but when it comes to long - medium or basically anything longer than 15-20m it's useless. So, if your opp has a very good gun in close-range then your tactic should be to use a long - medium range weapon which will render his gun useless on you! Most of the people complaining about NHVR are either newcomers or people that just can’t acquire the skill to use the sniper.
Changing NHVR is changing a very important aspect of APB Reloaded.
 

This game would be better without the hvr.

[vsb 6171]

1 minute ago, Tech-San said:

1- Battleye 
Battleye currently is useful against the majority of the cheaters that use either paid or public third-party tools, but when it comes to private hacks or some macros like the ones you can make with gaming mouses it just doesn't work. 

theres no anticheat that would be effective against built in mouse macro software, at least not without simply preventing people from using a huge variety of different gaming mice 
 

2 minutes ago, Tech-San said:

2- Unbans
The massive unbans helped aiding some issues like false bans and so on, but I personally see that stripping accounts money and JT is not even considered a punishment. 
People that are known to be cheating that has been caught and admitted doing so should not have been unbanned. I have seen proofs of old GMs admitting that they know that some people cheat and admit that they just ''don't ban some people''. These guys are well known, and they should not have been unbanned. If people can closet their way to max ranks and then get their accounts back that easily then where is fairness in this game? Can I just cheat my way to max without anybody acting against me? 

orbit has explained that it was a "fresh start" of sorts because g1 had little to no documentation on bans, and fairfight itself was set up incorrectly - yes it means some cheaters were unbanned, but it also means people who were unfairly banned were exonerated
your points about the "corrupt" staff are moot at this point since nearly all of them are gone 
 

5 minutes ago, Tech-San said:

A-Shotguns
The shotguns buff, I have personally not seen anybody complain about them. They are okay if you took the time to learn how to master them in their intended range, close range. I think they should be left untouched with some minor buffs to certain shotguns only and not tinkering with every gun in the game! You're going to end up changing the whole game and telling everyone that spent the time and dedication to develop their skills a big F you. 

the shotgun buff seems like a bandaid fix for the bad servers imo (treating the symptoms instead of the cause) and i feel its going to remove most of the smgs from the cqc equation
 

6 minutes ago, Tech-San said:

B-Snipers 
The NHVR nerf is the most ridiculous change I've seen so far. A shot is a shot. Whether you take it from 100m or 5m, realistically, it should do more damage in the close range.  Now the main thing about sniping in APB is that It's not a one-shot kill game. You tag someone and then you must end them up, there's some skill to it. Having a 1 shot sniper is not how this game was designed or desired to be by anybody that played APB for long enough. Killing someone in close range with NHVR is not easy. You must train a lot and have some courage to do it in the middle of the battle as it's a matter of luck. The thing that nobody gets is that APB is not about having balanced guns. For example, you have True Ogre which is good in close range if you manage to shoot before the enemy takes you down because of the timer on it, but when it comes to long - medium or basically anything longer than 15-20m it's useless. So, if your opp has a very good gun in close-range then your tactic should be to use a long - medium range weapon which will render his gun useless on you! Most of the people complaining about NHVR are either newcomers or people that just can’t acquire the skill to use the sniper.
Changing NHVR is changing a very important aspect of APB Reloaded.

killing someone close range with an hvr is incredibly easy, especially if you got the first shot off - the hvr was not balanced as it was
that said, i disagree with the seeming continuation of the pattern of giving individual weapons their own unique mechanics, which are sometimes contradictory to every other part of the gunplay, in an attempt to balance them
imo adding more and more complicated measures to balance guns ruins the simple yet polished arcade gunplay that sets apb apart from other shooters
 

12 minutes ago, Tech-San said:

C-Rifles
Instead of nerfing the okay guns I think Little Orbit should first ask the community about which guns should be nerfed with the in-game time on each one voting into consideration. New players come to the game with little to no background on how APB works or how was it designed for.
Ntec is very op and should be nerfed in close range as well as having some horizontal recoil to it.
ATAC should have much more recoil and lower TTK as well as a range nerf. A blind man can use ATAC.
Ursus is fine it just needs a slight range nerf. You can learn from Ursus how NTEC should behave in close range. Because NTEC is literally good for everything now. I’m talking about stock guns here with no mods.

ntec is fine as it is imo
atac trades that "blind man" ease of use for accuracy
ursus has the same range as the ntec, minus an extra 5m of near-minimum damage at the end of dropoff
 

15 minutes ago, Tech-San said:

D- Pistols
RFP is op. 
Yukon nerf was too hard lower fire rate a bit 0.045 to 0.078 is trolling.
UL3s are absolute trash except bloody mary.

rfp is def op currently
the yukon wasnt nerfed, it was fixed - the gun was bugged, both g1 and orbit have acknowledged that
UL3s are pretty balanced, ironically the bloody mary is arguably the worst imo
 

16 minutes ago, Tech-San said:

E- Explosives 
Add cooldown timer or something to OPGL it's not fun 

opgl is balanced as is
 

16 minutes ago, Tech-San said:

F-Legendaries
 I have seen a GM around that said that Legendaries are supposed to be ''Special'' and not powerful. This is not how APB works. 

this is precisely what legendaries are, they offer unique playstyles, not necessarily better playstyles, and its a perfectly good thing as it players still spend money on joker boxes but the ingame balance remains unaffected by potential p2w guns
 

19 minutes ago, Tech-San said:

F-Legendaries
Yukon nerf is too much, yes it was a bug, but that's not our fault. I bought a faulty gun that has not been fixed for 2 years and then I get my gun to become worthless. Now it can be beaten by probably any other secondary which really misses out on the ''Legendary'' part. Even the marksman mode mod is not as good as a real RFP. 

this post is honestly starting to seem more like an excuse to complain about the yukon nerf, and it devalues all of your other points because its obvious you cant look past your own desires and be objective
 

21 minutes ago, Tech-San said:

4- Engine
Yes, that's the thing we've been looking for the whole time. Not major weapon changes. Don't get me wrong I love how Little Orbit is excited at changing a lot of stuff to the ''better'' but please, some stuff are just not meant to be changed. I appreciate your hardworking but I'd politely suggest Little Orbit to focus on the more important changes. 

theyve given us plenty of info on the engine upgrade
 

22 minutes ago, Tech-San said:

Final Points:

1-APB is skill based. 
2-You're going to fast without having the time to think twice about what you're doing.
3-Too many changes and the game will lose its integrity and identity which is exactly what happened with G1 when they took over APB.
4-Nerf obviously OP guns such as stock NTEC-ATAC-RFP-PMG...etc
5-Please don't tinker with the modifications. 
6-Please don't tinker with the skill-based weapons and range specific guns like Ogre. 

My message to Little Orbit: 
I appreciate your work and I value it, the game is getting the attention it has always needed. Thank you Little Orbit and thank you, everyone, that has contributed in making this game up and still going to this day. However, I personally think these changes are going too fast and some of them will damage the game instead of fixing a broken feature. I strongly hope you reconsider these changes and fine-tune them to meet the requirements of how APB really is and how it has always been and how balanced content should be. Afterall, APB is not about balance, It's about teamwork and tactics. 

I will probably edit this thread as I spend more time with the new changes, I hope I can play APB how I used to do every day in the past 8 years because this game means a lot to me. I understand many things have to change, actually, that's what I've been asking for the whole time, but I noticed that these changing are going in the opposite direction of what APB has always been going to. It hurts to see a game I have loved for what it is being changed according to what players that have not spent as much time on the game and not really know much about it. 

Thank you for your time and I hope you have a nice day everybody.

i do agree that all these changes seem to be happening fast but if you think about it from orbits pov, they just purchased a game that was likely on its last legs, they need to turn it around quickly in order to make profits in order to keep turning it around
im also 100% positive that if orbit had purchased the game and taken it slow the community would have rioted, we already had signs of it happening when it took 3 weeks for them to get battleye up and running, the community was foaming at the mouth

also i believe the main weapon balance dev is someone they rehired either from early g1 or rtw so while apb has certainly changed a bit hes def far more familiar with it than most of the new orbit staff

[Tech-San 5]

Just now, Nite said:

That's been the popular thought for some time now, but honestly there's no way to prove it without some level of first hand information. No real point stressing about it at this stage.

Besides, its not like u can't still kill people with the Yukon, you just can't cheat people out of CQC kills by hiding behind a corner and bullet-blitzing your pursuer when they get close enough.

I know it was pretty op at 0.045 but I feel like mounties at 0.078 are just not the best option as a secondary let alone a Legendary. Even in marksman mode it doesn't work as efficient as an RFP 

[vsb 6171]

3 minutes ago, Nite said:

That's been the popular thought for some time now, but honestly there's no way to prove it without some level of first hand information. No real point stressing about it at this stage.

pretty sure even the balance dev beastie said he had no idea why such a simple fix wasnt corrected

[Tech-San 5]

4 minutes ago, Percocet said:

30 minutes ago, Tech-San said:

B-Snipers 
The NHVR nerf is the most ridiculous change I've seen so far. A shot is a shot. Whether you take it from 100m or 5m, realistically, it should do more damage in the close range.  Now the main thing about sniping in APB is that It's not a one-shot kill game. You tag someone and then you must end them up, there's some skill to it. Having a 1 shot sniper is not how this game was designed or desired to be by anybody that played APB for long enough. Killing someone in close range with NHVR is not easy. You must train a lot and have some courage to do it in the middle of the battle as it's a matter of luck. The thing that nobody gets is that APB is not about having balanced guns. For example, you have True Ogre which is good in close range if you manage to shoot before the enemy takes you down because of the timer on it, but when it comes to long - medium or basically anything longer than 15-20m it's useless. So, if your opp has a very good gun in close-range then your tactic should be to use a long - medium range weapon which will render his gun useless on you! Most of the people complaining about NHVR are either newcomers or people that just can’t acquire the skill to use the sniper.
Changing NHVR is changing a very important aspect of APB Reloaded.
 

This game would be better without the hvr.

same with ogre and atac imo 

[virginiavirgin 46]

I believed the shotguns were already perfect i had really nice results with them but honestly these weapon nerfs are too much.

[AgentWatson 85]

4 minutes ago, virginiavirgin said:

I believed the shotguns were already perfect i had really nice results with them but honestly these weapon nerfs are too much.

They weren't okay. The issues with servers and network lag made it so that you could get inconsistent results with the shotgun, the new model makes it so there is a fairer player ground between people who're equally as skilled and no nonsense going on in-between. Because I live in Australia, this issue was compounded by my latency, I'd sometimes have to shoot people upwards of 4-5 times <10m 

I'm not saying the new model is perfect by any stretch personally I'd of lowered CSG range to 11m or 12m overall I think the changes here are really positive. 

[Tech-San 5]

45 minutes ago, AgentWatson said:

They weren't okay. The issues with servers and network lag made it so that you could get inconsistent results with the shotgun, the new model makes it so there is a fairer player ground between people who're equally as skilled and no nonsense going on in-between. Because I live in Australia, this issue was compounded by my latency, I'd sometimes have to shoot people upwards of 4-5 times <10m 

I'm not saying the new model is perfect by any stretch personally I'd of lowered CSG range to 11m or 12m overall I think the changes here are really positive. 

fix servers instead of tinkering around a stable gun. the issue was the servers, not the gun this is not the best way to get around the issue, same with nhvr, not the best way. also, csg range now is ridiculous  

[Tech-San 5]

2 hours ago, Ebola-Chan said:

playing for 8 years and saying that nhvr shouldnt get nerfed
yeah.. okay.
because getting zoned out for 10 seconds (at best) from 1 shot is okay and balanced
just for the record yesterday i played on otw amd got hit from my own FIRE WORK and then i just got 1 shot from an nhvr
so yeah the nhvr still does 85 you just have to to be zoomed in

firework does pretty good damage tho 

[CookiePuss 5377]

10 hours ago, Psygo said:

Funny part is the Yukon isn't getting nerfed to death like everyone assumes, it'll be a regular mountie with a burst fire mode, which is exactly what it's intended to be

Yeah, it is now half "bad full auto secondary", half "bad RFP".
huehuehue