Solving Dethreating [Simple Fix]

[Queen of Love 452]

"Is not simple manage people, especially bad people"

We all know some goldies love stomp bronzes and real silvers in bronze district, cause is not fun have a fair match.

They use dethreating for access to bronze district and use griefing mission on purpose on silver district for maintain the low threat level, sometime also until green for be sure.

 

 

How to fix this antisocial use of threat system? 

Simple:

• Give to Dethreaters what they want: Easy match for gg ez.

 

How to do that?

Simply with this few steps:

• Gold badge gained for first time: Threat is locked for 1 month.  Gained second time: 1 year lock, Gained 3rd time: Locked forever.
• Silver badge gained for first time: Threat is locked for 1 month. gained 2nd time : locked forever.
• Bronze badge gained : Threat is locked forever.
• Every threat is locked to its own district: Gold to gold , silver to silver,bronze to bronze: no eceptions

 

This cost zero and works.

 

FAQ: 

• "Silver noob posting!?" :            Goldies go home
• "I have no fun in matching other goldies! i could lose!":            git gud
• "District segregation killed the game in past":                  cause dethreating 
• "No segregations at all could works better? there could be no need to grief/dethreating"           No, cause the MM could be afflicted for false threat detection.
• "Open conflict will be a better place after this?"                           They could be also removed.
• "I lag in silver district"                                                cause goldies presence ddos the server and opponents , is a natural technical cheat that they know and use with love. without them, silver district will be ok.
• "Goldies ddos with presence ?? are u mad??"              No, just see your ping in different full district, more gold presence, more lag and latency. is statistic and empiric, they got 120 fps PC ,this means more computation and more server response, now if you put a glass ball with an iron ball inside a basket which will be break first if basket begin to move? 
• "You told ez gg for goldies dethreaters!!! how is possible with this faxist rules???"                          Will be easy ,but some where else, i never posted that you will still have a gg ez in APB.
• "Your english is bad ! i hate you ! what you will do after my downvote?"                                        Nothing.  My english is terrible behind every human think , Kiss & Good Night

 

 

[Triksterism 137]

I hope you're not serious with this.

A better, but not perfect solution would be to have hard restrictions to districts. I don't mean the old district locks but instead boot people who gain x threat inside a district they arent supposed to be in (since I seem to see silvers complaining about golds inside of bronze districts, which is ironic).

 

So, go gold inside of a bronze district? Player is given a notice and after 5 mins is booted out (akin to the AFK kick) or until their mission is completed (if they are in one). I don't like that solution but it's a much quicker solution and way more reasonable solution to the one you proposed.

 

Also, you seem to want to bring back force locking of districts. This was in the game at one point and it was awful. I can't speak for other threats, but as gold (on NA servers) you could only play during peak hours. Outside of that the gold districts were d e a d. Pretty boring!

 

I forgot to mention how easily people could abuse your idea -- People who know how this works could re-roll a new account and get themselves locked-in as bronze and then it's GG hidden gold in green/bronze district.

Edited July 9, 2018 by Triksterism

[ZoriaDunne 327]

10 minutes ago, Queen of Love said:

 

• Gold badge gained for first time: Threat is locked for 1 month.  Gained second time: 1 year lock, Gained 3rd time: Locked forever.
• Silver badge gained for first time: Threat is locked for 1 month. gained 2nd time : locked forever.
• Bronze badge gained : Threat is locked forever. 

So if a T starts playing and win bronze, never can go silver or gold?
People would abuse this system by making new accounts and play on bronze being a gold in any other account.
It's simple, but not a good way to fix that problem.

A solution would be to rework how Threat system works. And maybe add a Platinum/Diamond Threat so those can be separated from the silver goldies that go silver and gold every few games.

[Queen of Love 452]

2 minutes ago, TheKeanuReeves said:

So if a T starts playing and win bronze, never can go silver or gold?
People would abuse this system by making new accounts and play on bronze being a gold in any other account.
It's simple, but not a good way to fix that problem.

A solution would be to rework how Threat system works. And maybe add a Platinum/Diamond Threat so those can be separated from the silver goldies that go silver and gold every few games.

 

Every gamer can get higher threat badge but will be harder or impossible downgrade. 

 

Also with 20 threat levels the scum will always try to cheat cause they could do. Only solution is make dethreating near to impossible.

 

new account? who cares.

13 minutes ago, Triksterism said:

I hope you're not serious with this.

A better, but not perfect solution would be to have hard restrictions to districts. I don't mean the old district locks but instead boot people who gain x threat inside a district they arent supposed to be in (since I seem to see silvers complaining about golds inside of bronze districts, which is ironic).

 

So, go gold inside of a bronze district? Player is given a notice and after 5 mins is booted out (akin to the AFK kick) or until their mission is completed (if they are in one). I don't like that solution but it's a much quicker solution and way more reasonable solution to the one you proposed.

 

Also, you seem to want to bring back force locking of districts. This was in the game at one point and it was awful. I can't speak for other threats, but as gold (on NA servers) you could only play during peak hours. Outside of that the gold districts were d e a d. Pretty boring!

 

I forgot to mention how easily people could abuse your idea -- People who know how this works could re-roll a new account and get themselves locked-in as bronze and then it's GG hidden gold in green/bronze district.

there will be never a solution until tool for dethreating is allowed. Remove dethreating totaly as a ez possibility for gg ez is the only way for solve the situation.

[Triksterism 137]

2 minutes ago, Queen of Love said:

 

Every gamer can get higher threat badge but will be harder or impossible downgrade. 

 

Also with 20 threat levels the scum will always try to cheat cause they could do. Only solution is make dethreating near to impossible.

 

new account? who cares.

Oh, so you meant it as a "hey, you're locked to this but can still threat higher" thing. That makes more sense but then it kinda sucks for the people who fluctuate. How would you handle the hidden threat? Would a Gold 10 not be able to drop to a Gold 1? Would you have them only lock to the major threats (gold / silver / bronze / green)? Or we could go old school before matchmaking was ever a thing in games, sort of like how open conflict operates.

 

7 minutes ago, TheKeanuReeves said:

So if a T starts playing and win bronze, never can go silver or gold?
People would abuse this system by making new accounts and play on bronze being a gold in any other account.
It's simple, but not a good way to fix that problem.

A solution would be to rework how Threat system works. And maybe add a Platinum/Diamond Threat so those can be separated from the silver goldies that go silver and gold every few games.

As it stands there is hidden higher threat (Gold 1 to Gold 10) which I think works fine. Maybe bring back the extra 5 levels from the early days, idk!.

[Queen of Love 452]

2 minutes ago, Triksterism said:

Oh, so you meant it as a "hey, you're locked to this but can still threat higher" thing. That makes more sense but then it kinda sucks for the people who fluctuate. How would you handle the hidden threat? Would a Gold 10 not be able to drop to a Gold 1? Would you have them only lock to the major threats (gold / silver / bronze / green)? Or we could go old school before matchmaking was ever a thing in games, sort of like how open conflict operates.

 

As it stands there is hidden higher threat (Gold 1 to Gold 10) which I think works fine. Maybe bring back the extra 5 levels from the early days, idk!.

The fluctuation is always inside a range, the MM will be able to recognize a Gold 1 and a Gold 10. As now. MM is broken due to people not due to calculation. 

 

Old school was good cause players were few and skilled, Now is different. They are many and with variuos skill levels.

 

[Triksterism 137]

17 minutes ago, Queen of Love said:

The fluctuation is always inside a range, the MM will be able to recognize a Gold 1 and a Gold 10. As now. MM is broken due to people not due to calculation. 

 

Old school was good cause players were few and skilled, Now is different. They are many and with variuos skill levels.

 

I meant the fluctuations where someone bounces between gold and silver very often vs someone bouncing around inside of their own threat.  Yes, the biggest issue with matchmaking is the pool of people, that I will 100% agree with.

 

As for the differences between players then and now, I feel like that's due to a lot of different factors. For instance, back in 2011 most people were playing because "Oh wow, APB is free to play now?!" (at least that's why I jumped in on it). There were a lot of fresh players to the game and people stuck around because this was in an era before the tumor of toxicity arose. The game was still pretty new, most people didn't know what was going on or the various nuances with weapons, locations, vehicles, etc... but it's been almost a decade since the game's initial release and about 8 years since it went free to play. APB lost a lot of its casual player base due to things like cheaters, the learning curve of the game, and various other problems caused by toxicity in the community as well as poor decisions / handling of situations from the developers at the time. What's left is the people who love the concept of the game and what it could potentially could be. Basically the 'hardcore' crowd of all skill levels. And those people know the game pretty damn well, inside and out. My game sense is pretty great in APB, but I am mediocre at gun play for example. The general fans of APB have become better over the years, I've seen this happen with many games in the past.

Edited July 9, 2018 by Triksterism

[Queen of Love 452]

3 minutes ago, Triksterism said:

I meant the fluctuations where someone bounces between gold and silver very often vs someone bouncing around inside of their own threat.  Yes, the biggest issue with matchmaking is the pool of people, that I will 100% agree with.

 

As for the differences between players then and now, I feel like that's due to a lot of different factors. For instance, back in 2011 most people were playing because "Oh wow, APB is free to play now?!" (at least that's why I jumped in on it). There were a lot of fresh players to the game and people stuck around because this was in an era before the tumor of toxicity arose. The game was still pretty new, most people didn't know what was going on or the various nuances with weapons, locations, vehicles, etc... but it's been almost a decade since the game's initial release and about 8 years since it went free to play. APB lost a lot of its casual player base due to things like cheaters, the learning curve of the game, and various other problems caused by toxicity in the community as well as poor decisions / handling of situations from the developers at the time. What's left is the people who love the concept of the game and what it could potentially could be. Basically the 'hardcore' crowd of all skill levels.

Sayvara did a nice post about dethreating .

the core of discussion was around this concept: " For a Perfect MM we should have a perfect twin in the same conditions at same time as opponent" And obvius is impossible, so the intelligent concept idea is to match similar skills, due to human nature , the slighty difference canT get a sure result in 100% (means that a skill level 9 could lose versus a level 8, otherwise result will have always the same winner)

 

 

About Silver suddenly Gold, or Gold with a low results, we can suppose to increase Threat requirement, with less grey zones, there will be a little pit for Bronze, a large one for silver and another little one for gold. 

 

A Statistic Projection with impossible dethreating could put a future population of only goldies, but this is Wrong. Only a very little part of Silvers will become Gold, if requirement for promotion are hard. Plus the new fresh population will keep silver gamers with a potential concorrence of new real Gold or stronger silvers incoming.

 

 

With this projection will be also easy detect cheaters and closets.

[Triksterism 137]

2 minutes ago, Queen of Love said:

Sayvara did a nice post about dethreating .

the core of discussion was around this concept: " For a Perfect MM we should have a perfect twin in the same conditions at same time as opponent" And obvius is impossible, so the intelligent concept idea is to match similar skills, due to human nature , the slighty difference canT get a sure result in 100% (means that a skill level 9 could lose versus a level 8, otherwise result will have always the same winner)

 

 

About Silver suddenly Gold, or Gold with a low results, we can suppose to increase Threat requirement, with less grey zones, there will be a little pit for Bronze, a large one for silver and another little one for gold. 

 

A Statistic Projection with impossible dethreating could put a future population of only goldies, but this is Wrong. Only a very little part of Silvers will become Gold, if requirement for promotion are hard. Plus the new fresh population will keep silver gamers with a potential concorrence of new real Gold or stronger silvers incoming.

 

 

With this projection will be also easy detect cheaters and closets.

1. The matchmaking system itself is already fine. The problem is the pool of people the system has to work with.
2. At a glance that could help, but you'd need to adjust it as the dynamic overall skill of players shifted over time.
3. I agree with you in that not everyone would become gold under your model as everyone is different and plays differently (basically not everyone puts in the effort or wants to put in the effort to get better, which is fine! It's a game!). Though I do think more silvers than you think would become gold. As for your last sentence here, are you wanting to protect new players? A better idea might be having 'newbie' districts that only people under 1 yr old (account age, for clarity) can enter. But that's kind of weak because smurfs/re-rolls.
4. How would this aid in finding cheaters? Most of the cheaters I've ever encountered were gold, but I have seen plenty of silver cheaters and even some bronze (beyond awful at the game but pinpoint laser accuracy full auto and plenty of snaps to go with it). I just don't see how sorting people "better" will make it easy to determine if someone is cheating or not.

[NotZombieBiscuit 3146]

This seems like a great way for dethreaters to lock their threat at a lower threat level forever.

[Queen of Love 452]

58 minutes ago, NotZombieBiscuit said:

This seems like a great way for dethreaters to lock their threat at a lower threat level forever.

please read it again. 

[NotZombieBiscuit 3146]

3 minutes ago, Queen of Love said:

please read it again. 

I read it fine. I even read it again just to make sure. My answer still stands.

[Queen of Love 452]

Just now, NotZombieBiscuit said:

4 minutes ago, Queen of Love said:

please read it again. 

I read it fine. I even read it again just to make sure. My answer still stands.

a threat level can be upgraded , but not downgrade, so If a goldies hit the gold canT go back after a 2 griefing missions.

[NecrophileChick 1]

I suck at APB and want to team up with my friend who is better than me. Do I have to get rekt on a gold district all the time then?

[Ashika 12]

Honestly it's not an bad idea, but It will not work. Since people who knows about it will just keep their threat low. 

Historically, as I remember, and I remember it from the beginning, de-threat first was the answer for cheating. Really when you continuously get the same opponents which overshoot your obeya with right perks on 70m+ with stock ntec, having 100% accuracy (and trust me that not because I don't know how to use obeya) you definitely want to have other opponents. I knew a lot of the players 3 yrs ago, including myself, who first dethreated and then left the game, since cheaters also started to dethreat. 

I decided to give the game one more chance after read the news from LO, and found it really in sad condition. There is no reason at all to carry about the mission when you can't even evaluate the opponent. No really - bronze 255, most of players are silvers, some of silvers end up missions with 20 to 0 kills, others don't know how to deal with delivery missions, R255 with O-PGL and SMAWS against players who just did lvl 2 perk ... so matchmaking is looking ridiculous since there is no real threat anymore on the servers, and looking to all this I can say that matchmaking by rating looks not worse than the current situation.

Anyway, I have some sport approaches for this problem (did you see that in most sports lowest and highest results are not taken into consideration?) :

app1: Don't take to consideration one-sided matches at all. Only matches with close results by kills and points must affect the rating, at least in case of lowering rating. Something like: "big" win moves you up (not sure), "big" loose don't change anything, close game moves you up and down.

app2: Use k/d rating as base to threat. First of all - SHOW IT! make threat decisions on missions when almost-same K/D rating plays, also check what player kills what player - kills between players with big K/D difference should make no effect. If player doesn't have any kills in mission, don't change threat. Yes K/D doesn't show some details about situations when people win with right tactics, but in most of the cases the game is about kill and then make point. So K/D matters. Or, maybe, (K+A)/D for gunners and snipers. 

Edited July 23, 2018 by Ashika

[Skillzor 0]

If you want to fix this problem, all you have to do it's about balancing the districts with three threat districts:

1) Gold district for gold player - A gold player can't join in a silver district.
2) Silver district for silver player - A silver player can join in a gold district, but can't join in a bronze district.
3) Bronze district for bronze/green player (T is included) - A bronze/Green player can join in a silver/gold district.

You will see 2 full gold districts, 2 full silver districts and only one bronze district with 30 Criminal and 30 Enforce. I think.

Anyways this process never fix Dethreat, but it's good for green/Bronze player and for real silver player.
And so, who really is a gold will be gold (because play vs only gold, not some silver or bronze. If a silver/Bronze join in a gold district it will be his problem).
 

Eliminating the green district, the ram raid farm will be deleted, because more ppl dethreat (or create new account) to bronze/green for join in the green district (empty district) for farm Apb$$ with ram raid!!

Edited July 24, 2018 by Skillzor

[Queen of Love 452]

18 hours ago, Skillzor said:

If you want to fix this problem, all you have to do it's about balancing the districts with three threat districts:

1) Gold district for gold player - A gold player can't join in a silver district.
2) Silver district for silver player - A silver player can join in a gold district, but can't join in a bronze district.
3) Bronze district for bronze/green player (T is included) - A bronze/Green player can join in a silver/gold district.

You will see 2 full gold districts, 2 full silver districts and only one bronze district with 30 Criminal and 30 Enforce. I think.

Anyways this process never fix Dethreat, but it's good for green/Bronze player and for real silver player.
And so, who really is a gold will be gold (because play vs only gold, not some silver or bronze. If a silver/Bronze join in a gold district it will be his problem).
 

Eliminating the green district, the ram raid farm will be deleted, because more ppl dethreat (or create new account) to bronze/green for join in the green district (empty district) for farm Apb$$ with ram raid!!

my recent mission in Jericho show how there is always a dethreater in opponent or in own team. (removing dethreating is the only way)

[Ashika 12]

21 hours ago, Skillzor said:

If you want to fix this problem, all you have to do it's about balancing the districts with three threat districts:

1) Gold district for gold player - A gold player can't join in a silver district.
2) Silver district for silver player - A silver player can join in a gold district, but can't join in a bronze district.
3) Bronze district for bronze/green player (T is included) - A bronze/Green player can join in a silver/gold district.

You will see 2 full gold districts, 2 full silver districts and only one bronze district with 30 Criminal and 30 Enforce. I think.

And you will create more de-threating people. Golds who want to "have fun" will de-threat to silver, then tired silvers will go to bronze, then "fun seekers" also will go to bronze. Exactly what we have right now. And the only solution is to find mathematical/statistical way to calculate threat right, to make dethreat real hard.  Edited July 25, 2018 by Ashika

[Skillzor 0]

So, we need this threat level: 

This threat level has 30 different icons (so 30 different level per colour). It's more hard to increase/decrease your threat.

Edited July 25, 2018 by Skillzor

[NotZombieBiscuit 3146]

11 hours ago, Skillzor said:

So, we need this threat level: 

This threat level has 30 different icons (so 30 different level per colour). It's more hard to increase/decrease your threat.

You didn't even read your own thread did you?

[Fortune Runner 796]

The ideas in this thread are more broken than our current threat system....

so hell no

[Queen of Love 452]

2+2 is 4.

this is freedom.

but sometime 2+2 = 5 is fun to have.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notes_from_Underground


People dethreat cause can .

A static planned unfair Block could be fun too.

[Skillzor 0]

On 7/26/2018 at 4:53 AM, NotZombieBiscuit said:

On 7/25/2018 at 5:38 PM, Skillzor said:

So, we need this threat level: 

This threat level has 30 different icons (so 30 different level per colour). It's more hard to increase/decrease your threat.

You didn't even read your own thread did you?

You don't understand. Before change the threat system I was "Pistol Silver" (level 7), after change it, when I had log-in,  I was gold. How? Why I get gold if I was silver? And it was a good gold. Because before returning silver I have played many missions, even if not very easily.

[NotZombieBiscuit 3146]

That is because they did a threat placement adjustment upon the bell curve. So some people moved about before normalizing soon after. @Skillzor

Edited July 28, 2018 by NotZombieBiscuit