Medium Item "Exploit" Removal

[mynd 120]

Medium items would be almost as annoying to move as large if this was nerfed.  There is an opportunity here though to add new equipment mods related to item carrying and possibly balancing lower-end cars in interesting ways around mission objective types and so forth.

 

As it were, until missions get some kind of significant rebalance, they should probably leave this alone.  Defending is already easier as it is, and changing the way medium items behave would increase this frustration significantly.

[Noob_Guardian 417]

15 minutes ago, mynd said:

Medium items would be almost as annoying to move as large if this was nerfed.  There is an opportunity here though to add new equipment mods related to item carrying and possibly balancing lower-end cars in interesting ways around mission objective types and so forth.

 

As it were, until missions get some kind of significant rebalance, they should probably leave this alone.  Defending is already easier as it is, and changing the way medium items behave would increase this frustration significantly.

Considering that you have a preset movement speed for both. Medium items move at 3/m a s, heavy at 1m/s and small at 6m/s. It wouldn't cause more annoyance, except for the fact that you have to be smarter about carrying items and not rely on a broken "mechanic"

 

While i agree they should add equipment related to item carrying, there's really not much else to be had in the sense of mission items, except to make the items invisible to opponents unless they are within 100m of objective.

 

Missions are fine, the problem is car spawners and custom spawning. The only "real" balance would be to adjust the spawns so that you can't keep spawning on the same side you just got killed on and make it so you cannot spawn within 100m of the obj.

 

Defending has always been easier, every game its meant to be somewhat easy, but also have ways to break it.

[mynd 120]

1 minute ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Considering that you have a preset movement speed for both. Medium items move at 3/m a s, heavy at 1m/s and small at 6m/s. It wouldn't cause more annoyance, except for the fact that you have to be smarter about carrying items and not rely on a broken "mechanic"

 

While i agree they should add equipment related to item carrying, there's really not much else to be had in the sense of mission items, except to make the items invisible to opponents unless they are within 100m of objective.

 

Missions are fine, the problem is car spawners and custom spawning. The only "real" balance would be to adjust the spawns so that you can't keep spawning on the same side you just got killed on and make it so you cannot spawn within 100m of the obj.

 

Defending has always been easier, every game its meant to be somewhat easy, but also have ways to break it.

I would go as far to say that the "exploit" makes an otherwise unfun mechanic manageable.  I would also say that car spawners break the spawn system AS MUCH AS mitigate the annoyances of the vanilla spawn system depending on teh scenario.  All of these reasons are why missions really need to be reworked and why the potential for additional gameplay mechanics surrounding missions needs to be further explored.

 

It's never a bad thing to have both sides of any mission scenario more even so that it's a little more about skill, and less about uneven mechanics.

[Noob_Guardian 417]

1 hour ago, TheJellyGoo said:

No, some spots are ridiculously bad placed for heavy items to be dropped or moved at the start/end of a stage.

 

But I do agree that the whole spawn issue might add to the trouble since it speeds up the gameplay.

the only really horrible locationed places i can think of are located in waterfront. There may only be one or two in financial, but i think financial has more problems with mojang money than the heavy items.

 

I do agree with BXNN though, making it so you can fire with your pistol while carrying a suitcase i feel would be fine.

[Noob_Guardian 417]

10 minutes ago, mynd said:

I would go as far to say that the "exploit" makes an otherwise unfun mechanic manageable.  I would also say that car spawners break the spawn system AS MUCH AS mitigate the annoyances of the vanilla spawn system depending on teh scenario.  All of these reasons are why missions really need to be reworked and why the potential for additional gameplay mechanics surrounding missions needs to be further explored.

 

It's never a bad thing to have both sides of any mission scenario more even so that it's a little more about skill, and less about uneven mechanics.

Except that its near impossible to actually "rework" the missions. We got location fixes, we could use more and more cover, fix cover and make it higher. But that doesn't fix the core issues of spawning, and mission time. Also, noone likes to hold a point 6+ minutes only to move to the next round in a 8 round mission, currently at 4 on average its fine, so how to fix it? We could let medium items have a person use their pistol to fire perhaps. The biggest issues i'd argue would be the spawns and spawn time, second no protection with items, and third being poor teammates perpetuating the problem. I'd remove mojang money and one or two just because they are terrible due to spawns or just bad design and time.

 

What would you do to rework missions?

Edited June 20, 2018 by Noob_Guardian

[Keshi 436]

honestly now i remember that G1 did fix this one time but the community complained about it and they removed it... i am 100% positive this was "fixed" before

[Noob_Guardian 417]

1 minute ago, Keshi said:

honestly now i remember that G1 did fix this one time but the community complained about it and they removed it... i am 100% positive this was "fixed" before

If so it was fixed for a week tops, but then all the "uber pros" who relied on it complained to no end. I know they did that with the HVR auto recoil adjustment. So it wouldn't surprise me.

[Rolpack 99]

1 hour ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Should the ability to move medium items faster than intended by bypassing the movement restriction on medium items be fixed?

 

The difference is roughly ~3m/s while carrying, vs ~6m/s (about sprint speed) while doing it

How about let everyone just simply sprint with a medium item, and let everyone jog with a heavy item instead of having to rely on some silly "mechanics"? Would be way better considering all the shitty drop offs for heavy items especially.

[Noob_Guardian 417]

6 minutes ago, Rolpack said:

How about let everyone just simply sprint with a medium item, and let everyone jog with a heavy item instead of having to rely on some silly "mechanics"? Would be way better considering all the shitty drop offs for heavy items especially.

i'd be for all the heavy drops being removed completely honestly. Though most missions have a big vehicle drop for them or you can get a vehicle in really easy. The only places its really a problem is the heavy item location hold final stages, and waterfront. Having heavy items be in a small alley 20m from the street, moving it through takes 20 seconds, you'll have to teamwipe almost twice just to get it turned in.

 

I can't agree with sprinting medium items though, just imagine how broke that would be for final mission case holds. It's bad enough trying to catch up to someone doing the exploit/"mechanic" it would be impossible without a vehicle if they could sprint.

[Rolpack 99]

2 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

I can't agree with sprinting medium items though, just imagine how broke that would be for final mission case holds. It's bad enough trying to catch up to someone doing the exploit/"mechanic" it would be impossible without a vehicle if they could sprint.

Easy, dont let them sprint with an item hold, just like your cars get slowed down.

Plus get the "mechanic" fixed aswell, so you cant put the medium item holds into silly places either.

[Xaix 34]

Should remove this "exploit" and increase the carry speed.

 

DONE.

[Dopefish 248]

5 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Hasnt it been around for years though?

Im sure you dont think G1 was ignorant of this fact, and yet they left it.

Come on, not even yourself would believe this argument?

 

4 hours ago, Genobee said:

Currently being caught out in the open for even a brief moment at slower then normal speed is enough to result in you dying a horrible death.

This is true, and is the main concern I would have with reintroducing the pickup animation that would prevent this. I'd rather see it being fixed from the other end, whereby dropping an item would give you 500ms delay to pick it up again.

 

Item hold or your drop/their drop-missions are dependent on the slower walk speed to allow enemies to catchup up to you.

 

This exploit were originally introduced to the game when G1 enabled you to interact while in midair (a good change with lots of unintended consequences, such as jump arresting).

[CookiePuss 5377]

6 hours ago, Dopefish said:

Come on, not even yourself would believe this argument?

 

 

To be fair, I also said this:

11 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Leave it, fix it, I wouldnt mind either tbh  

 

[ScarecrowXIII 27]

12 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Im shocked if I ever see someone NOT doing this. 

I don't cause it looks smart, like my character actually looks like he can't hold onto to shit.

[Dopefish 248]

33 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

To be fair, I also said this:

Leave it, fix it, I wouldnt mind either tbh  

Fair enough

 

It's mainly the item hold or your drop/their drop-missions that are negatively affected by it at the moment, so if those would be changed, I'd be fine if they made it so you'd be sprinting with the item to speed up gameplay in general. It's mainly bad when it's clearly meant to slow you down, and then circumvented by a bug that was introduced by one of their older patches. The same bugs also allowed for jump kicking doors, which are a big improvement for the game instead, so it's hard to draw a clear line for what's considered an exploit.

[CookiePuss 5377]

Just now, Dopefish said:

Fair enough

 

It's mainly the item hold or your drop/their drop-missions that are negatively affected by it at the moment, so if those would be changed, I'd be fine if they made it so you'd be sprinting with the item to speed up gameplay in general. It's mainly bad when it's clearly meant to slow you down, and then circumvented by a bug that was introduced by one of their older patches. The same bugs also allowed for jump kicking doors, which are a big improvement for the game instead, so it's hard to draw a clear line for what's considered an exploit.

Yeah, agreed.

I think Im sort of split on changes to APB.

Oh the one hand, I love the game as it is.

On the other, I recognize that without changing APB will never be more popular than it already is.

 

... sometimes makes it hard to have discussions like this lol

[Dopefish 248]

42 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

I think Im sort of split on changes to APB.

Oh the one hand, I love the game as it is.

On the other, I recognize that without changing APB will never be more popular than it already is.

I think more people feel the same way you do. It seems alot of players have become very conservative about the game the last couple of years, and it might because of how patches in the past have either broken something or made the game worse, aswell as the game was on the brink of death just a month ago. Since I'm not actively playing the game in its current state, I might be way more open for testing new things as I don't really have any stakes if it turns out badly for a week or two.

[Noob_Guardian 417]

17 hours ago, Rolpack said:

Easy, dont let them sprint with an item hold, just like your cars get slowed down.

Plus get the "mechanic" fixed aswell, so you cant put the medium item holds into silly places either.

makes enough sense, and keeps people from camping medium items as easily. Another option i suppose

 

7 hours ago, Dopefish said:

Fair enough

 

It's mainly the item hold or your drop/their drop-missions that are negatively affected by it at the moment, so if those would be changed, I'd be fine if they made it so you'd be sprinting with the item to speed up gameplay in general. It's mainly bad when it's clearly meant to slow you down, and then circumvented by a bug that was introduced by one of their older patches. The same bugs also allowed for jump kicking doors, which are a big improvement for the game instead, so it's hard to draw a clear line for what's considered an exploit.

 

I'd be fine with removing door jump if they made it so  you can open the doors while standing beside them, as a balancer.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Noob_Guardian

[Bornstellar 108]

Flag juggling in the early days of Halo is identical to this situation. 

 

I say you fix this bug but give the carrier the ability to use a secondary with their free hand.

[Recenite 6]

Actually they should remove it, maybe they can alter couple of things too? like missions timing? debugging ( hacks missions ) takes less times etc..

it's a good idea and a kickstarter for balance in-game missions.