@LittleOrbit Scroll Wheel Shooting

[CookiePuss 5379]

1 minute ago, Dreadarm said:

 Spam macros activate bloom. which makes any gun completely useless when spamming it too fast unless you have some kind of artificial aiming.

Not the OSCAR.

[Dreadarm 9]

Just now, iPlumbum said:

Work Smarter

Aimbot instead of learning

???

Profit

Aimbots alter the game mechanics, and is not what was being discussed. There is a drastic difference between macro and aimbot.

[iPlumbum 80]

Just now, Dreadarm said:

Aimbots alter the game mechanics, and is not what was being discussed. There is a drastic difference between macro and aimbot.

Bypassing the fire rate cap is not altering the game mechanics?

[Dreadarm 9]

Just now, iPlumbum said:

Bypassing the fire rate cap is not altering the game mechanics?

You can't bypass the fire rate dude.

[Thial 176]

4 minutes ago, Dreadarm said:

You are right, and there is actually a client side bug that makes using spam macro's a problem. The bug is a screen freeze, and using a spam macro will ruin your ability to function in the game because every-time you left click/fire, it creates a small noticeable freeze in the client. This compounds dramatically when using spam macro's. In addition to this. Spam macros activate bloom. which makes any gun completely useless when spamming it too fast unless you have some kind of artificial aiming.

This is basically the reasoning that back in 2014 revomag said blatantly that Macro's do not by themselves give an advantage nor are they an exploit because they do not alter the game mechanics.

bloom doesn't matter with semi autos up close so that argument is irrelevant.

[Dreadarm 9]

Just now, Thial said:

bloom doesn't matter with semi autos up close so that argument is irrelevant.

It most certainly does.

[VanilleKeks 737]

Scroll wheel shooting might seem OP until you consider scenarios where a max ROF isn't what you want. Trying to shoot slower with the wheel is really incosistent and will cost you some kills.

[Thial 176]

1 minute ago, Dreadarm said:

You can't bypass the fire rate dude.

the point is that lets say some gun can fire a shot every 300 milliseconds. Let's say you fired 3 shots. 1st one 0ms delay, 2nd 368ms delay, 3rd 349ms delay where scroll wheel fires 1st 0ms, 2nd 300ms, 3rd 300ms so while naturally the player's ttk would be 717ms with scroll wheel it would be 600ms. You wouldn't be able to achieve that naturally that's why it's cheating imo.

[AxeTurboAgresor 268]

Wtf is this thread all about. I ve been shooting with my mouse wheel for a long time when I 1st heared about it, and I would never do it again. It sucks, shots are imprecise, and there is like no room for getting better with it. Sometimes I feel like this forum is full of silvers. Complaining about n-tec, LTL, APB being p2w, mouse wheel. Lol  

[Dreadarm 9]

1 minute ago, Thial said:

the point is that lets say some gun can fire a shot every 300 milliseconds. Let's say you fired 3 shots. 1st one 0ms delay, 2nd 368ms delay, 3rd 349ms delay where scroll wheel fires 1st 0ms, 2nd 300ms, 3rd 300ms so while naturally the player's ttk would be 717ms with scroll wheel it would be 600ms. You wouldn't be able to achieve that naturally that's why it's cheating imo.

If the game mechanics were written to randomly achieve intervals between fire rate sure, I would agree with you, but you are still not "bypassing" fire rates. And the guns have a fixed fire rate set at a flat interval so there is no cheating going on. Just exploitation of the mechanic really. 

[iPlumbum 80]

Just now, AxeTurboAgresor said:

Wtf is this thread all about. I ve been shooting with my mouse wheel for a long time when I 1st heared about it, and I would never do it again. It sucks, shots are imprecise, and there is like no room for getting better with it. Sometimes I feel like this forum is full of silvers. Complaining about n-tec, LTL, APB being p2w, mouse wheel. Lol  

 

You're doing it wrong then.

 

Semi Auto's will shred you instantly when it's done correctly.

[Thial 176]

3 minutes ago, Dreadarm said:

If the game mechanics were written to randomly achieve intervals between fire rate sure, I would agree with you, but you are still not "bypassing" fire rates. And the guns have a fixed fire rate set at a flat interval so there is no cheating going on. Just exploitation of the mechanic really. 

Yes of course you are technically not bypassing the fire rate BUT you are bypassing humanly achievable fire rate. Even if you have 10k hours in APB you won't be able to push your fire rate to that perfect 300ms which I mentioned in my example.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Thial

[Dreadarm 9]

3 minutes ago, Thial said:

Yes of course you are technically not bypassing the fire rate BUT you are bypassing humanly achievable fire rate.

Thats not true either, some people practice, and some of the people that get called macro'ers are actually tap firing with muscle memory. You have to understand that what you see on your client is not what the OP is actually doing. It is the servers interpretation and translation to your client that you are seeing.

 

I don't even know why I posted this... different argument, sorry for that.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Dreadarm

[Thial 176]

1 minute ago, Dreadarm said:

Thats not true either, some people practice, and some of the people that get called macro'ers are actually tap firing with muscle memory. You have to understand that what you see on your client is not what the OP is actually doing. It is the servers interpretation and translation to your client that you are seeing.

I edited my previous post slightly. I can't agree. I play APB for many years and I have seemingly perfect fire rates with all the guns I play with but there are still some slight differences between each click and I will never be able to push my muscle memory to that perfect ttk mark. It's just humanly impossible to be so precise no matter how good you are. Scroll wheel will always fire faster same as macro does.

[AxeTurboAgresor 268]

8 minutes ago, iPlumbum said:

 

You're doing it wrong then.

 

Semi Auto's will shred you instantly when it's done correctly.

You dont need mouse wheel for that mate. If you think u do, well its up to you. Use it if you think that u cant play semi auto rifles pressing mouse buttons

Edited June 13, 2018 by AxeTurboAgresor

[Pufty 113]

It isn't cheating, but it is a problem, flaw or abuse of a flaw. It wasn't intended in the game, but right now that's an assumption. Guessing we can't really ask realtime worlds about whether it was intended, LO has to make the decision. I will be on the agree-ing side of fixing it, because a lot of people come to an disadvantage and when questioned, the abuser usually keeps silent of how he does it. It's fairly obvious from my point of view, but a lot of new players are having a hard time out there right now Playing the Game. Meanwhile we're here arguing about the legitimacy? 

I say, fix it. It comes in strong relation with macros and it was not intended in the game. Why would the programmers go thorough the hassle of creating shooting patterns and mechanics anyway then?

[Dreadarm 9]

3 minutes ago, Thial said:

I edited my previous post slightly. I can't agree. I play APB for many years and I have seemingly perfect fire rates with all the guns I play with but there are still some slight differences between each click and I will never be able to push my muscle memory to that perfect ttk mark. It's just humanly impossible to be so precise no matter how good you are. Scroll wheel will always fire faster same as macro does.

Ok this I can get on board with, yes you are right, 99.999999999% of people can't achieve that if anyone at all. BUT 0.017 ms difference between a macro/scroll wheel isn't going to be a noticable difference between what the server translates and what you see. It is such a small difference it really does not even matter.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Dreadarm

[nndrei 129]

Loool ... no

[nndrei 129]

Loool ... no,

[Dreadarm 9]

2 minutes ago, Pufty said:

It isn't cheating, but it is a problem, flaw or abuse of a flaw. It wasn't intended in the game, but right now that's an assumption. Guessing we can't really ask realtime worlds about whether it was intended, LO has to make the decision. I will be on the agree-ing side of fixing it, because a lot of people come to an disadvantage and when questioned, the abuser usually keeps silent of how he does it. It's fairly obvious from my point of view, but a lot of new players are having a hard time out there right now Playing the Game. Meanwhile we're here arguing about the legitimacy? 

I say, fix it. It comes in strong relation with macros and it was not intended in the game. Why would the programmers go thorough the hassle of creating shooting patterns and mechanics anyway then?

I think this is probably the best outlook on this topic so far.

[Dreadarm 9]

3 minutes ago, Pufty said:

It isn't cheating, but it is a problem, flaw or abuse of a flaw. It wasn't intended in the game, but right now that's an assumption. Guessing we can't really ask realtime worlds about whether it was intended, LO has to make the decision. I will be on the agree-ing side of fixing it, because a lot of people come to an disadvantage and when questioned, the abuser usually keeps silent of how he does it. It's fairly obvious from my point of view, but a lot of new players are having a hard time out there right now Playing the Game. Meanwhile we're here arguing about the legitimacy? 

I say, fix it. It comes in strong relation with macros and it was not intended in the game. Why would the programmers go thorough the hassle of creating shooting patterns and mechanics anyway then?

And to be fare, they did hire back one of the OG devs, so maybe we can ask them ^.^

[Thial 176]

1 minute ago, Dreadarm said:

Ok this I can get on board with, yes you are right, 99.999999999% of people can't achieve that if anyone at all. BUT 0.017 ms difference between a macro/scroll wheel. isn't going to be a noticable difference between what the server translates and what you see. It is such a small difference it really does not even matter.

The server lag is not as bad as you think it is. If you can fire every single shot with perfect fire rate the difference will build up as I mentioned in my example. Scroll wheel will achieve the perfect 600ms ttk and for you it will take let's say 756ms. Scroll wheel wins, you die and it will happen repeatedly in a scenario where you don't even miss a single shot. Scroll wheel will simply out ttk you.

I have to say that the poll results so far are surprising.

[Dreadarm 9]

8 minutes ago, Thial said:

The server lag is not as bad as you think it is. If you can fire every single shot with perfect fire rate the difference will build up as I mentioned in my example. Scroll wheel will achieve the perfect 600ms ttk and for you it will take let's say 756ms. Scroll wheel wins, you die and it will happen repeatedly in a scenario where you don't even miss a single shot. Scroll wheel will simply out ttk you.

but see, there in lies your flaw, "if you don't miss a shot". You WILL miss a shot unless you get extremely lucky OR you use artificial aiming. And in the general course of game-play, it wouldn't even have a noticeable effect.

 

Also, another thing to take into consideration, your ping also dictates how fast you can fire a weapon to some extent. Lets take into account Archeage, the US version replaced all single fire skills with skills that had pre recorded fire rates and intervals because of this vary reason. people with lower pings could achieve higher fire rates that people with higher pings because of the server side shot verification.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Dreadarm

[Thial 176]

1 minute ago, Dreadarm said:

but see, there in lies your flaw, "if you don't miss a shot". You WILL miss a shot unless you get extremely lucky OR you use artificial aiming. And in the general course of game-play, it wouldn't even have a noticeable effect.

Good players will very rarely miss, you don't need artificial aiming. It would have a noticeable effect if you run around with perfect ttk oscar trust me. Many people have insane aim in this game as they play a lot more than just APB, Quake for example for aim practice.

[PoshDoll 93]

kek'd

 

wait, he is serious isn't he? oh god. why would something that's in the game options menu be considered as cheating?