ISSR-B Rework

[Cr0 328]

1 hour ago, ReaperTheButcher said:

Little Orbit seems to be overtaken by the Old G1 staff, not good.

I don't know how to put this without anyone taking offense, because it isn't meant that way...

But several of the same people dealing with balancing is the same with LO as with G1, since those are partly SPCT.

 

What they should have done in terms of hard damage/vehicle HP was:

- buff some of the car HP in the way they did. Good.

- not lower any car HP of the other vehicles.

- lower the ISSR-B hard damage a little bit.

- lower explosion radius instead of damage on the Volcano (solves 2 problems with 1 stone).

 

Because they decreased some car HP, they weighted the balancing scale too much on one side:

- they then needed to extend the nerfs to include the SWARM.

- 4x4 became too weak, resulting in Osmaw killing it in 1 hit. If the 4x4 has too good speed, handing etc, then deal with the problems where they come from and don't let it bleed over into a type of punishment nerf in an unrelated field (HP).

- they lowered ISSR-A hard damage without improving any of its other features which made a bad gun even worse.

 

That's what's wrong with the patch.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PingOVER9000 189]

1 hour ago, Cr0 said:

I don't know how to put this without anyone taking offense, because it isn't meant that way...

But several of the same people dealing with balancing is the same with LO as with G1, since those are partly SPCT.

 

What they should have done in terms of hard damage/vehicle HP was:

- buff some of the car HP in the way they did. Good.

- not lower any car HP of the other vehicles.

- lower the ISSR-B hard damage a little bit.

- lower explosion radius instead of damage on the Volcano (solves 2 problems with 1 stone).

 

Because they decreased some car HP, they weighted the balancing scale too much on one side:

- they then needed to extend the nerfs to include the SWARM.

- 4x4 became too weak, resulting in Osmaw killing it in 1 hit. If the 4x4 has too good speed, handing etc, then deal with the problems where they come from and don't let it bleed over into a type of punishment nerf in an unrelated field (HP).

- they lowered ISSR-A hard damage without improving any of its other features which made a bad gun even worse.

 

That's what's wrong with the patch (I have to add the patch is in the right direction, waited for ages and in big part good, effort in doing this are worty of praise, just correct something please) .

 

 

 

 

 

 

BINGO!, BRAVO!, stand up and clap for this (something it's not  100% excatly but you centered the point)

Edited August 24, 2020 by PingOVER9000

[Motorola 107]

On 8/17/2020 at 12:41 PM, GhosT said:

 

That's the point, the ISSR-B gave us little to no reason to use the DMR-AV.

If you read what he said then you would understand that nerfing the dog-ear is like a "bandaid fix" to the bigger picture.

 

Switching to dedicated AV weapons takes too long, they severely lack mobility and they aren't versatile enough to use outside of the situation you equip them for. The appeal behind the dog-ear was that you could kill players reliably and also be annoying to cars... but not as annoying to cars as a real AV weapon and not as powerful vs players like a real sniper or assault rifle. It did it's job well and I honestly don't see the point in nerfing the gun (well i do see the point, more on that below). If I needed to kill a tank car I wouldn't use a dog-ear I would use an osmaw. I would use the dog-ear in situations where I'd have to chase people who are running away in a car, where I would hang out the window and be able to damage their car significantly while also being able to defend myself from the players shooting back at me out the window(s).

 

It's a band-aid fix because they (SPCT?) didn't put alot of thought or effort into this whole "balancing" of the car gaming "problem" and ruined some aspects of the game with this patch.

 

They could've made the AV guns more mobile and people would've probably loved to switch to them when players would be abusive with the tank car gameplay... and that probably wouldve been enough to keep the game how it always was while not removing any of our options. With this patch you removed a few weapons from the AV category and also made the need for AV guns pretty pointless (2 concs will handle any car or two).

Edited August 24, 2020 by Motorola

[wHisHi 206]

This weapon was and yet is still cool. If you wanna destroy cars, pick DMR ok?

[Motorola 107]

3 hours ago, wHisHi said:

This weapon was and yet is still cool. If you wanna destroy cars, pick DMR ok?

theres no point in using this gun anymore... obeya 2 slot does what this gun does but better.

[BlatMan 711]

CR762 and OBIR/FFA are my go to weapons atm. No reason to use the N-ISSR series. The CR762 kills faster, and the OBIR/FFA functions better as a support weapon with the extra overdamage.

 

 

[CookiePuss 5379]

16 minutes ago, SquirrelFace said:

CR762 and OBIR/FFA are my go to weapons atm. No reason to use the N-ISSR series. The CR762 kills faster, and the OBIR/FFA functions better as a support weapon with the extra overdamage.

 

 

but the Obir and Obeya have always been among the very best guns in the game

 

[wHisHi 206]

1 hour ago, Motorola said:

theres no point in using this gun anymore... obeya 2 slot does what this gun does but better.

I play for fun and obeya can’t provide same feeling as issb series. 

[Noob_Guardian 418]

15 hours ago, PingOVER9000 said:

 

Nope, that's not how is the actual or pre-nerf ISSR-b/ dog ear, it has less bullets per mag, more recoil and kill in 3 shots instead of actual 4 bullets.

 

Probabily you dont have or ever used a dog ear lately, before it was a more and less a copy of DMR with CJ3 but more portable and less range.

Someone told a DMR may be kinda of op, such as @Noob_Guardian if it will be without its malus speed, but as you can see this video prove something different 

 

Below some video about Dog ear against characters (and hitreg/ range matters... XD)

 

you seem to have missed the part where dogear doesnt 2 shot at 88m, and you arent suggesting to buff it to 75m+ plus movement speed. Also, I doubt anyone would find dying at like .98s with CJ at 75m+ very balanced. Especially since then it would easily contest the HVR and Scout to near not being used with both suggestions at once, especially if they nerf HVR like everyone's crying to do. While i agree the DMR range could be extended to like 83-85m, I doubt much lower would actually be balanced.

11 hours ago, Motorola said:

If you read what he said then you would understand that nerfing the dog-ear is like a "bandaid fix" to the bigger picture.

 

Switching to dedicated AV weapons takes too long, they severely lack mobility and they aren't versatile enough to use outside of the situation you equip them for. The appeal behind the dog-ear was that you could kill players reliably and also be annoying to cars... but not as annoying to cars as a real AV weapon and not as powerful vs players like a real sniper or assault rifle. It did it's job well and I honestly don't see the point in nerfing the gun (well i do see the point, more on that below). If I needed to kill a tank car I wouldn't use a dog-ear I would use an osmaw. I would use the dog-ear in situations where I'd have to chase people who are running away in a car, where I would hang out the window and be able to damage their car significantly while also being able to defend myself from the players shooting back at me out the window(s).

 

It's a band-aid fix because they (SPCT?) didn't put alot of thought or effort into this whole "balancing" of the car gaming "problem" and ruined some aspects of the game with this patch.

 

They could've made the AV guns more mobile and people would've probably loved to switch to them when players would be abusive with the tank car gameplay... and that probably wouldve been enough to keep the game how it always was while not removing any of our options. With this patch you removed a few weapons from the AV category and also made the need for AV guns pretty pointless (2 concs will handle any car or two).

Remember when everyone used to run AMMO in cars and players and taking 10 seconds to change weapons wasn't an issue? People don't care to change weapons in the first place, and Vegas w/ items or pio being vegas pushed is annoying toxic to go against. If they have AV weapons half your team has to change and coordinate well enough to take them out, which never happens to begin with. Most people I see can't even figure out how to get "ahead" of the enemy car and ambush them.

Edited August 25, 2020 by Noob_Guardian

[Motorola 107]

7 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

but the Obir and Obeya have always been among the very best guns in the game

 

right so why make a gun that was almost as competitive as these have less of a place to play?

1 hour ago, Noob_Guardian said:

 

Remember when everyone used to run AMMO in cars and players and taking 10 seconds to change weapons wasn't an issue? People don't care to change weapons in the first place, and Vegas w/ items or pio being vegas pushed is annoying toxic to go against. If they have AV weapons half your team has to change and coordinate well enough to take them out, which never happens to begin with. Most people I see can't even figure out how to get "ahead" of the enemy car and ambush them.

so i guess we can both agree that they are dumbing the game down and catering to bronze district players then. ok

[CookiePuss 5379]

3 minutes ago, Motorola said:

right so why make a gun that was almost as competitive as these have less of a place to play?

I don't find that the hard damage nerf makes the gun all that much less viable tbh. Not enough for it to change my weapon hierarchy.

Just my opinion though.

[BlatMan 711]

44 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

I don't find that the hard damage nerf makes the gun all that much less viable tbh. Not enough for it to change my weapon hierarchy.

Just my opinion though.

With the higher hard damage it was an AV weapon that can put pressure on players. Without those AV capabilities, there's no point in using it when the other rifles do a better job at killing players and vehicles. Choosing it now would be like choosing the stock star over the N-tec or Far. It kills slower and blooms more, why use it?

Edited August 25, 2020 by SquirrelFace

[PingOVER9000 189]

22 hours ago, wHisHi said:

I play for fun and obeya can’t provide same feeling as issb series. 

Wait a moment, here we have some kinda of confusion....

 

For making an analogy, we may tell today I am using a solo snubnose (its spit's stats or description below..) for making some kills with it and outplay better secondaries or primary, and see how many insults I will receive for trolling with one of unbalancest weapon of the game.

 

Maybe at end after of every 10 deaths you have made 1 kill and some assits, but you dont care it, it's fun to use it and rekt other players having better weapons than yourself.

 

So in the same way, OK,  good thing for you,  you are having fun with ISSRB and for you the ISSR-B is a fun weapon, but it doesnt mean it's balanced at all

 

https://apbdb.com/items/Weapon_Pistol_Snubnose

 

23 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

but the Obir and Obeya have always been among the very best guns in the game

 

Wtf answer is that?

it has no sense your answer, both weapons got several nerfs during the ages but they are still good or in balance with the other weapons of the game.

 

Merged.

 

17 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

you seem to have missed the part (nope) where dogear doesnt 2 shot at 88m, and you arent suggesting to buff it to 75m+ plus movement speed. Also, I doubt anyone would find dying at like .98s with CJ at 75m+ very balanced. Especially since then it would easily contest the HVR and Scout to near not being used with both suggestions at once, especially if they nerf HVR like everyone's crying to do. While i agree the DMR range could be extended to like 83-85m, I doubt much lower would actually be balanced.

On 8/23/2020 at 8:25 PM, PingOVER9000 said:

75 m, it may be a good distance, for counterbalacing a little the DMR with other sniper weapons, just reduce a little its fire rate and we may have a interesting weapon, balanced and worth to be used.

You are just mixing your salad.

 

With a slower fire rate,  for compensate its buff, it will be a worth sniper choice more in pair as Hvr and scout

Hvr and scout will be more effiecnt vs characters, but DMR will work as a real sniper after a certain range and may support team as anti-vehicles

Edited August 25, 2020 by Amayii
But I can ;)

[wHisHi 206]

1 hour ago, PingOVER9000 said:

Wait a moment, here we have some kinda of confusion....

 

For making an analogy, we may tell today I am using a solo snubnose (its spit's stats or description below..) for making some kills with it and outplay better secondaries or primary, and see how many insults I will receive for trolling with one of unbalancest weapon of the game.

 

Maybe at end after of every 10 deaths you have made 1 kill and some assits, but you dont care it, it's fun to use it and rekt other players having better weapons than yourself.

 

So in the same way, OK,  good thing for you,  you are having fun with ISSRB and for you the ISSR-B is a fun weapon, but it doesnt mean it's balanced at all

 

https://apbdb.com/items/Weapon_Pistol_Snubnose

 

Wtf answer is that?

it has no sense your answer, both weapons got several nerfs during the ages but they are still good or in balance with the other weapons of the game.

ISSR is not balanced like literally almost every weapon in the game. Either you play current meta or good luck trying to outplay it. I like ISSR playstyle, sad that it got nerfed, but still it won’t stop me from using it even if I loose to obeya etc.

[CookiePuss 5379]

10 hours ago, SquirrelFace said:

It kills slower and blooms more, why use it?

 

It kills slightly slower than the cr762 (.84 v .90), kills faster than the Obir (1.2 vs .90), and has nearly 30m more range than both.

Its also a sniper with a .90 ttk compared to the HVRs 1.75.

 

You can disagree on the hard damage nerf and that's fine, but your description of where the gun sits in the meta is demonstrably false.

 

7 hours ago, PingOVER9000 said:

Wtf answer is that?

it has no sense your answer, both weapons got several nerfs during the ages but they are still good or in balance with the other weapons of the game.

Im saying both of those are top tier meta weapons.

was I not clear?

[PingOVER9000 189]

1 hour ago, CookiePuss said:

Im saying both of those are top tier meta weapons.

was I not clear?

I told they got several nerfs during the ages because they were a little above top tier or what they were designed, especially obeya, but despite the nerfs they are still good, so the balancing made, it was quite well done.

 

I cant tell the same for dog ear, is it clear now?

 

1 hour ago, CookiePuss said:

It kills slightly slower than the cr762 (.84 v .90), kills faster than the Obir (1.2 vs .90), and has nearly 30m more range than both.

Its also a sniper with a .90 ttk compared to the HVRs 1.75.

 

You can disagree on the hard damage nerf and that's fine, but your description of where the gun sits in the meta is demonstrably false.

 

You clearly  dont ever used a ISSR-b (I cant believe you dont have it ) or better you are just denying the facts, because you find difficult to admit that you are wrong (and why Cookie?, for a such low matter ), apb's stats doesnt excatly reflect the effectiveness of a weapon.

 

Demonstrably false (and easily), because otherwise we will use all SHAW, and that's not the case, unless you are using cheats with auto- control recoil/ bloom 

Edited August 25, 2020 by PingOVER9000

[CookiePuss 5379]

27 minutes ago, PingOVER9000 said:

You clearly  dont ever used a ISSR-b (I cant believe you dont have it )

I have every weapon.

28 minutes ago, PingOVER9000 said:

because otherwise we will use all SHAW, and that's not the case, unless you are using cheats with auto- control recoil/ bloom 

what?

[Motorola 107]

11 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

 

It kills slightly slower than the cr762 (.84 v .90), kills faster than the Obir (1.2 vs .90), and has nearly 30m more range than both.

Its also a sniper with a .90 ttk compared to the HVRs 1.75.

 

You can disagree on the hard damage nerf and that's fine, but your description of where the gun sits in the meta is demonstrably false.

 

Im saying both of those are top tier meta weapons.

was I not clear?

the bloom makes it not as good as any of these guns. you cannot realistically min ttk with a dog ear like you can with any of the guns you mentioned without the way the gun works working against you. which is fine and made it balanced when it could be annoying to cars also... but now it cant annoy cars so why use a shittier obeya or a shittier scout or a shittier obir....?

Edited August 26, 2020 by Motorola

[CookiePuss 5379]

12 minutes ago, Motorola said:

the bloom makes it not as good as any of these guns. you cannot realistically min ttk with a dog ear like you can with any of the guns you mentioned without the way the gun works working against you. which is fine and made it balanced when it could be annoying to cars also... but now it cant annoy cars so why use a shittier obeya or a shittier scout or a shittier obir....?

more range and/or a faster ttk

we just went over this

[Motorola 107]

7 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

more range and/or a faster ttk

we just went over this

get closer  vs shittier gun... idk what goes on in the mind of SPCT lol.

[BlatMan 711]

It barely has more range when you account for the range curve on the CR762 and OBIR and IR3. If they didn't have that stupid curve mechanic then the N-ISSR-B would have a slightly wider niche range. It would be even wider if the silencer didn't reduce it's max range.

 

What's the point of the silencer reducing max range anyway? It doesn't really mask the weapon sound, and you can't put IR on it since it's a red mod. Worse is on the pistols where it reduces the mag size by 1. What idiot came up with that?

[Kempington 295]

That was more in place as a downside for when tracers were a thing, since suppressors remove tracers. That hasn't been a thing for ages so the downside doesn't make sense.

 

The FBW-SD used to have 12 round mag capacity by the way.

 

I don't know, RP got super lazy later on with suppressed weapons and never revisited the mods.

 

Also you're absolutely right. Realistically, the OBIR and cr762 outshoot the ISSR-B at range in a heads up fight as you can't min-ttk with the ISSR-B due to the bloom.

 

However, you can poke with the ISSR-B safer than the cr762 and it's inherently more consistent due to the accuracy. Whilst the cr762 won't typically miss at its effective range maximum or further, it still does on ocassion. The ISSR-B doesn't.

 

I do understand where people are coming from regarding the ISSR-B and its less versatility now. Motorola is bang on the money with how AV is not practical at all, given their inability to help in an actual shootout after the cars are gone.

 

However, the ISSR-B is still pretty potent as an AP weapon. It may not be meta, but it's still a solid pick for a ranged weapon.

[CookiePuss 5379]

4 hours ago, Motorola said:

get closer  vs shittier gun... idk what goes on in the mind of SPCT lol.

If you wanna pretend its that simple, then sure.

[PingOVER9000 189]

12 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

12 hours ago, Motorola said:

the bloom makes it not as good as any of these guns. you cannot realistically min ttk with a dog ear like you can with any of the guns you mentioned without the way the gun works working against you. which is fine and made it balanced when it could be annoying to cars also... but now it cant annoy cars so why use a shittier obeya or a shittier scout or a shittier obir....?

more range and/or a faster ttk

we just went over this

.....

If we count the delay for bloom recovery after the second shot , at best the ISSR-B's TTK is around 1.100, realistic/ pratical talking is better telling is around 1.400/ 1.500.

 Obir and Obeya perform better in TTK and "effective range" counting then for a game such as APB where the medium/max range is around 70m, ISSRB has a very low advantage than them and it's around after the 80m and finish it at 85... without count sniper weapons such as HVR and Scout are clearly 2 steps above ISSRB and give no space ISSRB, they have better output damage, range and modification mods.

 

Of course As others, I am against the idea of buffing its AP ability or reducing bloom, if the ISSR-B was a laser gun with real TTK of 0.900, it was clearly OP.

 

But "we just went over this", dont waste your time Motorola with Cooki.

 

38 minutes ago, Kempington said:

However, the ISSR-B is still pretty potent as an AP weapon. It may not be meta, but it's still a solid pick for a ranged weapon.

I respect your opinion and in certain ways of Cookie too, but not the stubbornness.

Both of you admit is not meta gun, so why nerfing it too much if it wasnt OP or nobody complained about it? (still waiting why no one answer us to this question )

 

It's versatily made it valid this weapon, its interesting balance, without being great in nothing,  between being a decent antivehicle and a decent antipeople weapon made it a worth weapon to be used in some missions.

 

I am for balance for the weapons we have in game, I really dont understand the reason of continue having this distinction between "meta guns" , a numbers of weapons we may count with 2 hands,  and others, it has no sense.

[CookiePuss 5379]

27 minutes ago, PingOVER9000 said:

I respect your opinion and in certain ways of Cookie too, but not the stubbornness.

 

Please understand these are just opinions. Kemp has his, I have mine, and you have yours.

 

This is why discussion is important... everyone has their own perspective. 

 

For me the B wasn't OP it was just more versatile than (imo) it should have been.