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Resine

Engine Update IS the worst tha happened to APB

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16 hours ago, 404 said:

proper balance doesn't require 2.1 to do, although frankly i don't believe orbit is capable of doing it on either engine

 

 

Thank you. I am afraid you are right though.

10 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

Resine was not just talking about gun balancing in itself , but new content including maps , bug fixes , matchmaking , pretty much anything and everything else that comes after a new engine upgrade to be able to do all of that. you can not put the cart before the horse.

 

Did you even read what I said? Anything except advanced new content can be added to the current engine update.

In case you don't remember.

Balance is about changing numeric values mostly.

Map changes can be also made as it was proven years ago with some minor adjustments.

Matchmaking could be tweaked too to certain degree.

 

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14 hours ago, Resine said:

Thank you. I am afraid you are right though.

Did you even read what I said? Anything except advanced new content can be added to the current engine update.

In case you don't remember.

Balance is about changing numeric values mostly.

Map changes can be also made as it was proven years ago with some minor adjustments.

Matchmaking could be tweaked too to certain degree.

 

Matchmaking has a pool of 40 people in its current state so tell me then how would YOU fix it without the engine upgrade since you just claimed it can be without it?

 

How would YOU do gun balancing and fix the guns that have been broken and add in new maps and events to keep the game alive with the current engine only allowing so much before it breaks again?

 

How would YOU change maps for new events and how to go about it when anything changed had to be rotated in and also tended to break APB in unexpected ways?

 

And how would what YOU want be more important than new content that any gamer would want ( hundreds of games make new content for a reason - too keep and also bring in players )

 

And by all means say how YOU say it is better than the engine upgrade that will help with all of this in better ways ( like phasing for a massive pool for matchmaking )

 

Merged.

 

And lets not forget the coding for APB is so old and unencrypted that people can make cheat programs easily but with the new engine can make that harder if not impossible for many ( it wont be all someone sooner or later can/will ) to make cheats with  proper encrypting and other means Little Orbit mentioned in the past. 

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Most folks on here have not worked in game dev, I have and I can tell you exactly what doomed APB and it has very little to do with the engine update.

 

The real reason APB was doomed was because the core foundation of the game was never built properly. The only thing Realtime Worlds got right was the customization editor, an arcade gameplay loop, and a fun game world to run around in.

 

But Realtime worlds failed to plan for the FUTURE of the game.

 

They didn't anticipate what would happen if players who could navigate the maps with their eyes closed would be put in the same pool as new players.

They used custom hacks and code to make their game work in THAT version of Unreal Engine, never dreaming it would have to be changed.

They never had a plan on how to sustain the longevity of the game.

 

The engine update is not intended to enhance the graphics. The engine update is being pushed because APB has become impossible to update and upgrade with its current code and engine limitations. Newer PC's still can't run APB well because of the shoddy code that was built into the game into the first place. An update to a new engine would allow LO to bring better performance to consoles and have a stronger foundation with which to build their game.

 

But as everyone has noticed for the past 10 years, APB was a cluster f--- to begin with.

 

LO signed up to maintain an upgrade a lemon. They bought a car with no brakes, a failing transmission, and glued on shoddy repairs that would never pass inspection. What LO is doing is the equivalent of restoring an old car but it turns out engine code is more complicated than a real engine.

 

Even after LO completes this upgrade, I doubt they can truly salvage APB. The only way to put players on an even playing ground is to add new maps and make some changes to the current layouts. Right now, not a single new player will stick with the game because the veterans will outmaneuver and outgun them at every turn. The new player population needs to be kept on its own server away from the veterans who have already played the sh** out of this game.

 

APB is a very unique game and it definitely loads faster and performs better than GTA Online. But it simply doesn't have enough depth or variety to sustain the population. The account bound guns and cars without new maps is a joke. APB is essentially a mobile game in PC form.

 

I hope the engine update is the upgrade LO needs to truly add some support to this game, but I fear it's going to be too little too late.

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On 7/7/2020 at 11:51 AM, Fortune Runner said:

you are definitely confused. I did not say that in the way you took it.

Then what did you intend to say, because that is what it means so far.

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15 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

Matchmaking has a pool of 40 people in its current state so tell me then how would YOU fix it without the engine upgrade since you just claimed it can be without it?

 

How would YOU do gun balancing and fix the guns that have been broken and add in new maps and events to keep the game alive with the current engine only allowing so much before it breaks again?

 

How would YOU change maps for new events and how to go about it when anything changed had to be rotated in and also tended to break APB in unexpected ways?

 

And how would what YOU want be more important than new content that any gamer would want ( hundreds of games make new content for a reason - too keep and also bring in players )

 

And by all means say how YOU say it is better than the engine upgrade that will help with all of this in better ways ( like phasing for a massive pool for matchmaking )

 

Merged.

 

And lets not forget the coding for APB is so old and unencrypted that people can make cheat programs easily but with the new engine can make that harder if not impossible for many ( it wont be all someone sooner or later can/will ) to make cheats with  proper encrypting and other means Little Orbit mentioned in the past. 

Let's think what fucked Matchmaking in the first place -  Hard Gold Lock that killed quite a number of population as well - After that people never went back to Gold districts and now they can't even if they wanted to. Why did it happened? Because at some point of the game, trash players thought that dethreathing and playing on lower instances for easy matches is better than trying to get better and playing against other players. What could G1 do to prevent that?

First of all, higher rewards. Personally I would lower Cash and standing rewards on bronze and silver districts by significant amount so people would have to play harder mission to get better rewards.

Further I would award only JT for Gold districts.

Allow Crim vs Crim and Enf vs Enf cross mission would double the district pool players.

MAP WAS CHANGED ALREADY - I said it twice if I am not mistaken that in the past we had map changes that fixed some truly OP spots. I said nothing about new events.

Gun/Cars/Mod changes are all numerical values changed - easy and quick to do. It's time worthy to think and balance them correctly.

Also, it's a mere 0,5 switch in engine status. I assure you, that it's old already and broken into billion peaces, that it will make to difference to cheat creators.

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For the time that it will take to have the new engine out, it will be too late to release any meaningful content. They won't have the playerbase, the money and the time to release anything big anytime soon after that.

 

Just imagine how much more stuff they could have done for all these years even if it was way harder to implement in the game. 

 

 

 

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I think a lot of it is "why fix this now just to have to fix it again in 2.1" and that's before the fixes that apparently need 2.1 to be addressed. 

 

Some may disagree with the priorities and I'm sure it wasn't an easy decision to make but the decision HAS been made.

 

So until we see how it plays out, its probably too early to discuss what should or may have been.

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2 hours ago, Resine said:

Let's think what fucked Matchmaking in the first place -  Hard Gold Lock that killed quite a number of population as well - After that people never went back to Gold districts and now they can't even if they wanted to. Why did it happened? Because at some point of the game, trash players thought that dethreathing and playing on lower instances for easy matches is better than trying to get better and playing against other players. What could G1 do to prevent that?

Back when that happened cheating was rampant and people dethreated to get away from golds who were cheating to win. Or did you forget about the goat and others. 

 

2 hours ago, Resine said:

First of all, higher rewards. Personally I would lower Cash and standing rewards on bronze and silver districts by significant amount so people would have to play harder mission to get better rewards.

Further I would award only JT for Gold districts.

does nothing to fix the problems with the current engine with bugs , cheating , matchmaking etc.

Its not even good as a placebo.

2 hours ago, Resine said:

Allow Crim vs Crim and Enf vs Enf cross mission would double the district pool players.

APB is enforcers vs crims because it is a cop vs robbers type game. It is not a different game than that.

 

while to you saying lets just let everyone switch seems like you get a large pool in reality current matchmaking has a handful not in a mission to choose from. all you did was at most say to double that playerbase that can be selected which does not fix matchmaking at all.

Instead it gives more of the same problem and does nothing.

 

3 hours ago, Resine said:

MAP WAS CHANGED ALREADY - I said it twice if I am not mistaken that in the past we had map changes that fixed some truly OP spots. I said nothing about new events.

Gun/Cars/Mod changes are all numerical values changed - easy and quick to do. It's time worthy to think and balance them correctly.

guns cars and mods are more than numbers alone. There are formulas as well involved in them that make them work the way they work.

New players have said how they wish they could shoot through the glass and that its odd how you cant.

Personally I believe bullet resistant glass would be a good compromise to be realistic enough but still keep APB as APB , but that is just an opinion on how to please both opinions of others.

( allow a little damage to kill those already too weak who basically deserve it , but not free killing like some wanted )

That would take changing the car models however to make windows separate.

With the current engine I would not want to do that or it would create a lot more bugs from how APB was coded.

 

Also we have had the same content for years.

APB can not survive on the same maps , and that will take the new engine to have more maps in time.

3 hours ago, Resine said:

Also, it's a mere 0,5 switch in engine status. I assure you, that it's old already and broken into billion peaces, that it will make to difference to cheat creators.

I already said how the engine upgrade will be used to help clean up the spaghetti coding even more so. Who wouldn't ?

Also , you admitted the upgrade is broken , so how much more do you think the even older engine we have is broken?

 

 

TL;DR

Nothing you said could even come close to fixing APB and wouldn't even extend its life either.

Not only did you show you don't understand  the coding at all , but that you also are terrible at business.

Any company who ran itself the way you did would die out , which is what G1 did as well if you think about it.

I'm sorry but you are completely wrong on this.

 

The only real valid solutions that I have seen , has been from Little Orbit and their plans on this.

 

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3 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

Back when that happened cheating was rampant and people dethreated to get away from golds who were cheating to win. Or did you forget about the goat and others. 

[...]

-

[...]

-

[...]

-

My take on gold lock, because apparently memories are a flimsy thing.

Quote

 

APB is enforcers vs crims because it is a cop vs robbers type game. It is not a different game than that.

while to you saying lets just let everyone switch seems like you get a large pool in reality current matchmaking has a handful not in a mission to choose from. all you did was at most say to double that playerbase that can be selected which does not fix matchmaking at all.

Instead it gives more of the same problem and does nothing.

 

It has been stated on multiple occasions that this wouldn't even break the lore. There is friction between the factions all the time. Would be simple to explain some mission interferences.

Also in which world does this not help at all? It literally doubles the pool... it's in the word itself.

Sure one world phasing would still be the ultimate solution however that doesn't mean we need unnecessary limitations.

Quote

 

guns cars and mods are more than numbers alone. There are formulas as well involved in them that make them work the way they work.

New players have said how they wish they could shoot through the glass and that its odd how you cant.

Personally I believe bullet resistant glass would be a good compromise to be realistic enough but still keep APB as APB , but that is just an opinion on how to please both opinions of others.

( allow a little damage to kill those already too weak who basically deserve it , but not free killing like some wanted )

That would take changing the car models however to make windows separate.

With the current engine I would not want to do that or it would create a lot more bugs from how APB was coded.

 

Also we have had the same content for years.

APB can not survive on the same maps , and that will take the new engine to have more maps in time.

 

What do you think those formulas consist of?

What has your suggestion to do with the mentioned balance changes? 1 sentence that addresses the point... 5 of completely useless chatter that just water down your whole post making it harder and harder to to get a grip on it. You just throw in so much bullshoot that it becomes impossible to pin you down on the facts because you pollute the whole post with obsolete information that sidetracks the whole point.

And if you seriously put those two things (gun/car/mod balance and complete change of vehicular functionality) on the same level then you're really as lost as previous posts indicated.

 

Thinking the EU will make way for a completely new map (or even multiple "maps") in the future is borderline delusional. You're so out of touch with what will happen.

Quote

 

I already said how the engine upgrade will be used to help clean up the spaghetti coding even more so. Who wouldn't ?

Also , you admitted the upgrade is broken , so how much more do you think the even older engine we have is broken?

 

TL;DR

Nothing you said could even come close to fixing APB and wouldn't even extend its life either.

Not only did you show you don't understand  the coding at all , but that you also are terrible at business.

Any company who ran itself the way you did would die out , which is what G1 did as well if you think about it.

I'm sorry but you are completely wrong on this.

 

The only real valid solutions that I have seen , has been from Little Orbit and their plans on this.

 

Yes, the current code is a mess. No one ever denied that. It's a hurdle not an impossible to climb wall.

This whole thread was never a discussion about the now or the from now on. It's about the past and what would have been an alternative way besides years of drought in hopes of a magical EU.

It was theorized that it would have been a healthier solution to work with the mess from then till now to have a properly supported game that could have been in a much better state than currently.

And no, G1 did not do that. They didn't provide continuous development. They announced the EU and started milking without doing anything.

It's not about extending it's life, fixing APB now... now it's to late. Now there is literally only the hope of a magical EU and looking back at what you think it will bring - oh boy will it be not.

 

That is why "ENGINE UPDATE IS THE WORST THA HAPPENED TO APB", because it prevented what could have been. And let's be honest everything would have been better then the current APB.

For LO I hope they pull a miracle, I would grant them success for the effort but again they will not succeed with so many delusional people around. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, TheJellyGoo said:

It has been stated on multiple occasions that this wouldn't even break the lore. There is friction between the factions all the time. Would be simple to explain some mission interferences.

Also in which world does this not help at all? It literally doubles the pool... it's in the word itself.

Sure one world phasing would still be the ultimate solution however that doesn't mean we need unnecessary limitations.

APB was built from day 1 to be enforcer vs crim. not just the lore but the whole thing. 

Once again don't put the cart before the horse - fix the spaghetti coding first or changes like this can easily break APB entirely.

A major change like this can easily break any little coding on APB

Also I never said anything about the lore ( the story ) to begin with.

And furthermore a pool of 4 doubled to 8 does NOT fix APB matchmaking. Of anything it is a waste of time and money on a placebo that isnt even a bandaid.

Even you say phasing would be an " ultimate solution " but then you call it limited ? uh what ?

4 hours ago, TheJellyGoo said:

What do you think those formulas consist of?

What has your suggestion to do with the mentioned balance changes? 1 sentence that addresses the point... 5 of completely useless chatter that just water down your whole post making it harder and harder to to get a grip on it. You just throw in so much bullshoot that it becomes impossible to pin you down on the facts because you pollute the whole post with obsolete information that sidetracks the whole point.

And if you seriously put those two things (gun/car/mod balance and complete change of vehicular functionality) on the same level then you're really as lost as previous posts indicated.

 

Thinking the EU will make way for a completely new map (or even multiple "maps") in the future is borderline delusional. You're so out of touch with what will happen.

first off i was responding to that persons posts and not putting random stuff.

Second putting out there what new people have said recently is not outdated information. plenty of threads on this as well as threads on what was put on youtube reviews.

third i never said the engine upgrade will magically make anything happen i did say it would allow the opportunity to allow more content at once without having to rotate like before.

fourth - you can be salty all you want but no one said or did anything to you to deserve your rudeness. - replying to you is pointless - enjoy trolling on your own 😛

 

 

Edited by Fortune Runner

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9 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

APB was built from day 1 to be enforcer vs crim. not just the lore but the whole thing. 

rtw allowed crim vs crim missions, so idk about that 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

APB was built from day 1 to be enforcer vs crim. not just the lore but the whole thing.

That is not correct, but you might not play back in RTW times.

 

From 2014 to 2020, the amount of quality changes:

- Trade system

- Spotter nerf

- NHVR changes - Some might not like it, but I think it was move in right direction as the weapon is still usable, but is not dominant.

- N5/P5 system removal

- EAC introduction

Did I miss any? Don't think so.

I don't know the exact development plans for APB, the reality is, that the game is misery with eol status for over a half decade with many things to fix.

What Engine update will bring is an expansion possibility, that was not the biggest issue APB had in 2013-2014. Creating this thread I wanted make a valid point, that delaying entire engine update for a year or two, to patch what can be patched, balance what can be balanced to make quality changes to issues that are complained about frequently, could potentially keep players base and the game itself in much better, healthier condition.

It would be logical outcome, we did everything we could, the content is finished, the game is in the best place it could be, we can't do no more, time to go quiet for few years and give this game new life with expansion of engine update. Instead, G1 was like fuck feedback, fuck players, fuck balance, let's make joker boxes, let's pretend we do Engine update while we don't do shit except the sales, let's milk cash and pack our bags before train crashes - it's literally what happened.

I don't think people realize current time line.

How long do you think it will take for engine to be fully released and free of majority of Bugs/Lags/Crashes/Issues?

Great, now how long do you think it will take to balance fucking everything? Spawns/Maps/Matchmaking/Weapons/Mods/Cars/Missions/Useables?

Great, now we can think about new content for the game, assuming there are people left. Turf wars anyone?

Edited by Resine

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11 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

[...] - you can be salty all you want but no one said or did anything to you to deserve your rudeness. - replying to you is pointless - enjoy trolling on your own 😛

 

 

Keep dodging and silently dropping all your other statements that have been rebutted.

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Allowing something isn't the same as being built for it . RTW days was early early alpha when they allowed it and  it was decided against it to move to the current APB.

 

The engine upgrade allows better opportunities for fixing core problems with APB , yet you wanted to put the cart before the horse and not fix the real problems first with a proper engine. 

Instead it was suggested to use any placebo you can and say it is better while even saying its not better. Who in their right mind wants to settle for second best , and your ideas weren't even that.

 

ANY OF YOU have yet to give any solution BETTER than what Little Orbit has planned.

Doubling a player pool is no where near better compared to infinity player pool possibilities. 

 

So far no real solutions were given by any of you that would be any where near good enough for making APB better than what it is now so it can succeed , which is exactly what Little Orbit has as a goal.

 

You dont win a race by giving up , you win by giving your all to the bitter end. Whether APB can do that , only the future would know ,

but not doing whats right to the best of our ability out of laziness will absolutely fail APB.

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56 minutes ago, Fortune Runner said:

ANY OF YOU have yet to give any solution BETTER than what Little Orbit has planned.

Make a new APB game on Unreal Engine 5... u'r welcome

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1 hour ago, HighSociety said:

Make a new APB game on Unreal Engine 5... u'r welcome

FINALLY someone with a real solution that is better

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6 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

[...]

ANY OF YOU have yet to give any solution BETTER than what Little Orbit has planned.

[...]

You're pretty daffy aren't you? I never talked about LO and what they are doing now. It was all about the way up until now.

It's like running in circles. Yes, at this point LO is doing the best they can with the hot steaming pile that they inherited from G1.

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