ntec

[Noob_Guardian 417]

1 hour ago, Abduct / Devote said:

No, you're just really awkwardly selectively blind whenever I've made a point. Flaws and I showed great examples. You wanted us to first come to a Ntec based thread to debate this, you can't refute our points and you instead make inconsistent points/excuses for how it was "broken." Meanwhile, we HAVE shown how it was fine, but yeah you're just in your own lil world. It's ok, I know you're really bad at reading what we said and understanding anything. But honestly? I'm kind of tired of repeating the same thing over and over again. 

Again, you have a lot of faith in LO to know all about the game when vets have been playing for years and years, before they even came along. Get your head out of your anus and think for once in your life. Stop being silly. 

This argument will go nowhere because you refuse to acknowledge actual points/facts. Flaws and I have pointed stuff out on numerous occasions and you still haven't shown us jack to prove your points except falling back to "WELL LO SAID THIS SO MUST BE RIGHT." Yep, that's definitely how the world works. 

 

If you can prove how calling me bad, casual, and how saying that only competitive skilled players should have a voice, refutes any information and statistics i've given, then maybe you'd have a point. I asked for statistics, and the only person who shared statistics recently aside from me was Flaws, in regards to how the "ntec is the same as the far", of which I refuted showing the obvious differences and also gave him the missing information that he didn't know in regards to the NTEC change. The images only gave a reference point for discussion, they didn't prove anything.

 

I then suggested the information be used for an actual balance topic in suggestions. Of which is being ignored.

 

The change happened MONTHS ago, and not a single NTEC Reversion topic has popped up in suggestions?? What? I thought it destroyed the NTEC? If the NTEC mattered that much and the change was that drastic, wouldn't there be.. you know, at least "1" suggestion in suggestions to revert the NTEC AFTER the reversion happened? Why is it the same people who care about the NTEC, seem so intent just to argue and bicker amd haven't done the "1" thing that's asked of anyone with in-game suggestions?

 

Not only that but the only two people who were providing any discussion was/is Flaws and Respect, not you, who seem solely intent on name calling and complaining.

[RespectThis 121]

48 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

 

If you can prove how calling me bad, casual, and how saying that only competitive skilled players should have a voice, refutes any information and statistics i've given, then maybe you'd have a point. I asked for statistics, and the only person who shared statistics recently aside from me was Flaws, in regards to how the "ntec is the same as the far", of which I refuted showing the obvious differences and also gave him the missing information that he didn't know in regards to the NTEC change. The images only gave a reference point for discussion, they didn't prove anything.

 

I then suggested the information be used for an actual balance topic in suggestions. Of which is being ignored.

 

The change happened MONTHS ago, and not a single NTEC Reversion topic has popped up in suggestions?? What? I thought it destroyed the NTEC? If the NTEC mattered that much and the change was that drastic, wouldn't there be.. you know, at least "1" suggestion in suggestions to revert the NTEC AFTER the reversion happened? Why is it the same people who care about the NTEC, seem so intent just to argue and bicker amd haven't done the "1" thing that's asked of anyone with in-game suggestions?

 

Not only that but the only two people who were providing any discussion was/is Flaws and Respect, not you, who seem solely intent on name calling and complaining.

Again Borus i have already stated why competitive skilled players voices should be louder. Not saying casuals shouldn't have a voice. But do you understand who is going to stay playing this game. Who is going to keep the game afloat. Who actually play to win and compete. I don't care if you want to voice your opinion. At the same time though you have stated how you feel about APB as a whole and your motivation towards it. Which doesn't really make your arguments seem very wholehearted when you're only halfheartedly playing. What if a game you really enjoyed, played for years, and invested alot of time into was trashed by casual players. Its not enjoyable to see. Especially when these casual players cry about things. Like the ntec for example being to strong. When in reality it isn't. People are better and know how to play the gun. Same with the Atac. It ONLY seems op now because everything in terms of balancing is in the trash. Yes Flaws is the only one who has shown images. I have stated to you in this thread the similarities of the far to the ntec. I have looked through the DB and compared the star, far, and ntec. Again though numbers are only a part of the whole equation. I've been playing this game for 9 years and i can say with a hell of a lot of ntec under my belt that it is no where near as op as people think it is. I know its strengths and limitations. What match ups suck and which ones are easy. When to push and when to jumpshot. These aren't things numbers and casual players show/do. 

 

That's the thing. Abduct and i have played the game together for the longest time. I'm sure Flaws has played his far share as well. None of us like the idea of casuals/LO who have very little knowledge of the game's history/background/gameplay are trying to argue changes. Sure they have the data thats great. What does it actually mean to them though? Are they actually experienced apb players? Do they know how each weapon preforms at its best and worst? I'm not claiming they don't know anything. Though i find it VERY unlikely they have anywhere near as much experience as Abduct, Flaws, other invested players, and myself. Or even average day players to a degree. On top of that the changes with Reloaded Productions was just a one and done. Very little testing in an extremely unfair testing location with a very biased community towards the ntec already. As in they, the community, didn't even test it they just said "ya lets go with the worst option because fk that gun".

 

Yes I could go and make a suggestion thread. I may very well at some point. At the same time though Abduct isn't wrong in regards to coming into this thread to argue you. The ntec was brought up in other threads before such as the ATAC one and was halted. Now we're here and he's free to argue you however he feels. Back to the suggestion thread. I have considered it many times now. Thing is though people, like yourself, and many others will more than likely just go on that thread and drown it out with troll, unreasonable, and nonsensical comments. Along with "Its to OP". Thats the thing. The people who DO care about the ntec have been showing up in this thread. We dont need a suggestion to express our thoughts and opinions on the matter. Maybe we just dislike seeing people commenting with stupid ideas or ones that don't work. Especially when it impacts us more than them. Flaws is right when he said alot of people have been quitting the game due to the changes to weapons. Its one of the reasons my play time has decreased. Its not only just regarding the ntec either. They are sucking the fun out of the game and don't know a lick about balance. Hats off to them for trying but look at when APB was popular. Hint it was back in 2013. 

 

Just saying don't just say "make a suggestion thread" to express how we feel about it. When we are literally in an ntec thread telling you. We do care hence why we're here and have been having this conversation. I'm not doing it for the fun of it and i don't think anyone else really is. We just don't want to see a game we all enjoy(ed) continue down the path that will be the end of APB. 

Edited June 14, 2020 by RespectThis

[Noob_Guardian 417]

3 hours ago, RespectThis said:

It was balanced. Hence why you did see a variety of weapons. Reasons why you saw ocas, pmgs, hvrs, scouts, carbines. You really going to act as if none of those guns were ever/rarely picked?

 

No, however the last few months i've seen NTEC has been used far more than any of them. You also before then, generally didn't see any other AR's on a team, it was solely the NTEC, and oca/pmg, HVR etc.

Quote

Also yes its competition was strong. People just didn't play it as much because, here's a thought, they preferred the feel of the ntec. Its not "to versatile" as you so claim. If it was NO ONE would ever use smgs, rfiles, or snipers. But that clearly wasn't the case.

There's a difference in reliability and ease of use with the ntec as well. While FAR for example is a great rifle, it's certainly to a degree easier than ntec, it doesn't "feel" as reliable because it doesn't secure kills as easily or quickly. People did, however as I said, to a much lesser degree use other weapons. You'd have entire teams of 4 ntecs, with no snipers, pointman, rifles, nothing, just ntecs, and they didn't change unless the area required a sniper. Why? Beats me, but that's a problem especially when its consistent.

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What about the shaw? Its literally an ntec in LMG form. Same with the NSSW. Just as easy to use and just as deadly. Why do people not use that as much? Because they PREFER the ntec.

NTEC is more mobile, accurate, and viable than either. SHAW isn't an ntec in LMG form at all. NSSW is the closest thing, and even pre-g1 ntec rework, it was considered lesser than the NTEC. There's obvious reasons why the NTEC is preferred. It's more than just "preference" and "feeling". It's about reliability, versatility, accuracy, ttk, bloom vs recovery, recoil. NTEC feels good to use, because it mixes everything and has no real drawbacks aside from firing too fast at range.

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I mained the ntec because it was a great feeling gun. Same reason i mained the Obeya prior to that. They both are fun and strong guns to use. Just because you don't see everyone picking an obeya doesn't negate that its a strong counter. Again, why do you think the ntec is strong in cqc? Thats such a sad and weak argument point. You can't honestly think that the ntec is stronger than the oca, atac, pmg, or jg in cqc. You had to body stuff people with the ntec to get the min ttk. Thats assuming you don't get corner popped by a shotgun or sprayed down by an smg. The ntec has awful run and gun. Hence why the cqc weapons are strong against the ntec. Because thats where its biggest weakness WAS and is now even more exaggerated for whatever reason. Dying to an ntec in cqc is the PLAYERS fault. Just because the PLAYER couldn't handle beating it doesn't make it broken. Just means you're bad. End of story.

 When talking about AR's and Rifles that can compete against the NTEC, they all suffer against those cqc based weapons. You have NTEC which performs similarly to the star, and far against pointman weapons and performs better than its "strong competitors" in general past that pointman range. You generally "don't" want to not be using an ntec instead of a Far or Obeya, that is unless you're preferring to spray in cqc now, or hoping to fire at 45-90m for example. You had a weapon whos difference in cqc wasn't clear enough in comparison to its competitors, while having it be better at range than them (aside from obeya which gets stronger the further it gets from the NTECs damage range but can struggle up to then). My argument was never fully because of point man weapons against it, rather that its competitors performed somewhat weaker in cqc as well which made no reason not to use it if it's better than them within their niches. I felt it would be "nice" to give cqc and cqc-mid based weapons a little more breathing room against the NTEC, however they may have done too much as i've said.

 

 I do feel a change was needed, however it likely had gone too far. You don't have to prove that the change may have been "too much" to me, because I feel it was. But i disagree with a full reversion because hopefully as I've conveyed, I feel there was too little of a difference between it and some of its competitors in cqc, and a much larger difference cqc-mid which ended up with it being the obvious better choice. I'll make this clear, if I see a reasonable suggestion to rebuff the NTEC without fully reverting it to its previous power level, then I wouldn't have an issue supporting it. I even made such a stat change suggestion above which was pretty much a "middle ground" between a buff and reversion. I know you don't agree with that, however that is all the middle ground that I really can agree on.

 

Hopefully that makes sense. I'll end my discussion on that.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Noob_Guardian

[FakeBungo 248]

the ntec is cringe and only closets use it, skilled players main osmaw/opgl and use pig/perc combo

[PingOVER9000 189]

Ok, My (impartial eh) feedback using

 

 

 

VS 

N-TEC             FAR

 

-Made around 50 match(25 in Financial, 25 in Waterfront)  one time using NTEC (+ Fr0g Thumbnail/ AP45 )__ Second time FAR (+ ACT44 HS3/ AP.45/ Fr0g Thumbnail)

Note: Some matches with Ntec test I cancelled and repeated it because most kills I have done with secondary and others of NTEC/FAR cancelled and repeated for balancing matchs where they were more difensive than offensive (= campering is a nasty beast XD)

 

-Modes used for the NTEC:   

-Modes used for the FAR:  

-Premade team

 

 

Total :

 

Ntec: 742 kills (media kills around 15 per round)

FAR: 726 Kills (media kills... depends a little more from the location/ map, more CQC perfomed like 17/20+ kills, others we have a media of 10 kills per round and a lot assist)

 

Self Note/ Comparison:

 

Ntec PRO/CONS:

 

PROS: Still perform well in medium/ long ranges (20m+), NTEC is still doing its job 

CONS:

1) As I told before, using it give me like the feel that NTEC has something nasty,  I dont know how to describe, the ntec "seem almost and also not at the same time" a total different weapon.

After some matches I tried to adap for tapfiring in a different way and see a lot more improvement, but I admit I feel a little slower to kill someone.

2) In CQC I have to use switch more to secondary  than FAR

 

FAR PRO/CONS:

 

PROS: Far perform better in close ranges than NTEC and in medium range make its job quite well

CONS:

1) Especially medium/longer ranges "sometimes", tapfiring, and especially full-auto, this weapon have like "that bad habit" to fire random bullets more horizontal than u have aimed, especially after the 2/3 shots, with the result sometimes of your target escape or just finished the match a lot of assist in your score board.

2) Low Mag/ Secondaries: FAR has a "worse choice" than NTEC, the one at the end I found more complete with FAR it was the ACT44, it's a decent secondary for long range (and actually the best one for long ones), but Ntec for closer ranges has better secondaries pool , making the choice duo between primary and secondary of NTEC is more balanced than FAR.

Low Mag is switched for a faster reload time, against multiple opponents it may be sometimes a "so so" situation.

 

3) I have to admit I havent used FAR a lot in past and probabily I may perform a little better in future with more practice or than maybe/ probabily someone with better pratctice or aim than me if will make the same test, we may see a different result

 

Another Thing I kinda noted while I was testing the mods with the FAR, RED MODS doesnt seem me excatly "Getting Along" with FAR, also HS3 maybe it's a little too much for it, maybe also with a better load out FAR may perform surely in pair or better than NTEC.

 

On 6/9/2020 at 6:13 PM, Noob_Guardian said:

FAR doesn't play the "Same" as NTEC. STAR and FAR play much more similar to eachother than to the NTEC. "About as good" but not AS good, key difference there. STAR and FAR are almost identical in playstyle and handling. I don't get where you think FAR is an ntec, but literally look at the STATS on APBDB and you'd see you're wrong. Unless you're going to claim the STAR functions the same as an NTEC

 

Agreed.

 

Bye

Edited June 14, 2020 by PingOVER9000
orthography correction v.v

[Abduct / Devote 69]

15 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

 

If you can prove how calling me bad, casual, and how saying that only competitive skilled players should have a voice, refutes any information and statistics i've given, then maybe you'd have a point. I asked for statistics, and the only person who shared statistics recently aside from me was Flaws, in regards to how the "ntec is the same as the far", of which I refuted showing the obvious differences and also gave him the missing information that he didn't know in regards to the NTEC change. The images only gave a reference point for discussion, they didn't prove anything.

 

I then suggested the information be used for an actual balance topic in suggestions. Of which is being ignored.

 

The change happened MONTHS ago, and not a single NTEC Reversion topic has popped up in suggestions?? What? I thought it destroyed the NTEC? If the NTEC mattered that much and the change was that drastic, wouldn't there be.. you know, at least "1" suggestion in suggestions to revert the NTEC AFTER the reversion happened? Why is it the same people who care about the NTEC, seem so intent just to argue and bicker amd haven't done the "1" thing that's asked of anyone with in-game suggestions?

 

Not only that but the only two people who were providing any discussion was/is Flaws and Respect, not you, who seem solely intent on name calling and complaining.

Borus, you keep going on about that, to DEFLECT and STRAWMAN. I haven't been calling you that every post have I? This is what I meant about you not reading. You're trying to nitpick anything you can to attempt to have an "argument." This isn't debate anymore, it's your feelings being hurt because the truth hurts. Get over it and stop pretending that is what makes the Ntec "OP." 

 

Also, I wasn't PLAYING months ago. SOOOO kinda hard to test it myself if I'm not active. I come back to this travesty. Yeah, you can pick up the gun and fire it like any other weapon but I'll use any other weapon over it, because it does not FEEL good anymore. You're hilariously still stuck on the name calling card lol. 

I have brought discussion, and you ignored it every time. I didn't name call you every time, but you're claiming I am. Borus go read for once in your life. I haven't been name calling you for a long time now, lol. I've been calling you out on stuff, for lying. That's not name calling! But apparently it is to you because you're so blinded by rage at the sight of me going after you.

Ping, you didn't even use the same things and are trying to make a "fair" comparison lol. Also 20m isn't medium to long range area. That's closer to 45m+. 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Abduct / Devote

[PingOVER9000 189]

21 hours ago, Abduct / Devote said:

Ping, you didn't even use the same things and are trying to make a "fair" comparison lol. 

Edited 18 hours ago by Abduct / Devote

"I tried" to use the same mod's load out and the same time, the same main mods.

HS3 and IR3 are still the same and "should guarantee" the same range of action, without a damage dropp off.

I decided to change the purple mod for the reason I explained upside (Ntec per faster quickswitching, FAR per better CQC engages)

 

21 hours ago, Abduct / Devote said:

Also 20m isn't medium to long range area. That's closer to 45m+. 

I didint "just" write long range..

Btw, In game I self consider from 20/25+m start  medium/ long ranges, more and less the same range where CQC weapons such as OCA, PMG, JG etc loss their effiency than AR weapons & similar such as NTEC, STAR, FAR etc , where they have better accuracy and range.

 

22 hours ago, Abduct / Devote said:

I have brought discussion, and you ignored it every time

Try yourself wonder why 

[Abduct / Devote 69]

3 hours ago, PingOVER9000 said:

"I tried" to use the same mod's load out and the same time, the same main mods.

HS3 and IR3 are still the same and "should guarantee" the same range of action, without a damage dropp off.

I decided to change the purple mod for the reason I explained upside (Ntec per faster quickswitching, FAR per better CQC engages)

 

I didint "just" write long range..

Btw, In game I self consider from 20/25+m start  medium/ long ranges, more and less the same range where CQC weapons such as OCA, PMG, JG etc loss their effiency than AR weapons & similar such as NTEC, STAR, FAR etc , where they have better accuracy and range.

 

Try yourself wonder why 

Because you can't refute anything I say, and don't know what you're talking about. That's why. Mob sling/3ps3 both play completely different bud, so no you didn't guarantee anything. You consider 20m medium range, lol. That's like medium range for an OCA, maybe. Not an Ntec, bud. 

[PingOVER9000 189]

26 minutes ago, Abduct / Devote said:

Because bla bla...

 

I have tried it but I suppose trying to make a ( reasonable) discuss with you, it's a waste of time.

[Abduct / Devote 69]

3 hours ago, PingOVER9000 said:

 

I have tried it but I suppose trying to make a ( reasonable) discuss with you, it's a waste of time.

Nah, you just don't know what you're talking about. Still don't apparently. Enjoy never being able to argue properly because you don't even use consistent stats

[PingOVER9000 189]

7 hours ago, Abduct / Devote said:

Nah, you just don't know what you're talking about. Still don't apparently. Enjoy never being able to argue properly because you don't even use consistent stats

Right now, I dont feel excatly the needing to know about stats, then if I, and same for you as everybody, have some doubts may give a look to the db https://apbdb.com/ or ask here, but certainly not you, you have made like tons of  speechs just arguing all the time,  and all of them have the same worth of the raining on a asphalth road, "apparently or not apparently" without a  sense.

 

That's because you are just making the pretender and unconsistent crybaby all the time, so yep here the reason of my precedent conclusion:

 It's a waste of time.

 

Bye

 

[RespectThis 121]

4 hours ago, PingOVER9000 said:

That's because you are just making the pretender and unconsistent crybaby all the time, so yep here the reason of my precedent conclusion:

 It's a waste of time.

 

Bye

 

Um what? He's not wrong to call you out. You were testing the guns with different mods. For testing purposes it DOES make a difference. The amount of movement you get with mob sling is quite alot. For an accurate test you should have matching mods. Its that simple. Thats the reason he called out your test. Any well informed ABP player can tell you how good the benefits of mob sling are. To NOT be using it on both invalidates your data. With my 9 years of experience and way more hours than i want to admit i can assure you that the difference between mob sling and 3ps is VERY noticeable.

Edited June 16, 2020 by RespectThis

[Deadliest 385]

would make a video on the ntec but having such bad reg issues on NA. 

[Abduct / Devote 69]

6 hours ago, PingOVER9000 said:

Right now, I dont feel excatly the needing to know about stats, then if I, and same for you as everybody, have some doubts may give a look to the db https://apbdb.com/ or ask here, but certainly not you, you have made like tons of  speechs just arguing all the time,  and all of them have the same worth of the raining on a asphalth road, "apparently or not apparently" without a  sense.

 

That's because you are just making the pretender and unconsistent crybaby all the time, so yep here the reason of my precedent conclusion:

 It's a waste of time.

 

Bye

 

You're talking on a thread to discuss a gun without knowing how to use properly in this situation. Those mods, 3ps3 and mob sling, aren't the same performance wise. I called you out, you didn't like it. You're useless to this discussion if you can't even see that, sorry.

 

You're the one crying because I'm not letting you get away with it. Do you say bye each time you pretend to win an argument? Btw, you're calling me names, kinda hypocritical. 

 

Zero substance, zero ability to stay on topic, and zero ability to even insult someone properly. kek

Edited June 16, 2020 by Abduct / Devote

[Amayii 398]

It has become clear that no further sensible discussions will be had in this thread, as a result it is being locked.

 

~@mayii