Reworking some of the vehicle mods

[Rehtaelle 18]

Let's make it clear, I want to address SPECIFICALLY mods with either no downside or such a minute downside that they don't seem to matter. I mean, I know that no one will agree with me, but hey, I have nothing to lose by speaking up. I wouldn't call any of these *perfect* so if you have alternative solutions, speak up.

 

Brick - Surely a reasonable downside to counteract its main purpose: Exit cars 50% slower.

 

All versions of Explosives - 20% more damage taken. As this weaponizes your vehicle in a way that you the user are aware of, A means of countering this is to cause the increased blast radius to be more of a potential hindrance to the user. The driver must be more mindful of how their car is positioned, and the angle of approach. The reason that the downside is uniform across is that the expanded blast radius could be as much of a hindrance as a benefit.

 

Extra Cargo Capacity - 5%/10%/15% Top Speed. I think this one seems self-explanatory.

 

Fast-Fix Chassis - While being repaired, vehicle moves 20%/40%/60% slower. While the vehicle gets back into the fight quicker, it's more vulnerable until then.

 

Fireproofing - 20%/40%/60% Slower Repair speed.

 

Nitro - Consolidate all 3 nitro into 1 mod which is statistically between 2 and 3. 300% engine torque output, 3m/s top speed, -90% turning speed. Currently, Nitro 1 and 2 are hardly noticeable, and there is little purpose behind them other than progression filler.

 

Steel Plating - Increase downside of reduced speed from 2%/4%/6%/ to 3%/6%/9%.

[NotZombieBiscuit 3146]

Orange/Usebale mods are generally the exception to the rule in that they are not meant to have downsides. The downside is the cooldown.

[vsb 6171]

On 1/22/2020 at 7:04 PM, Rehtaelle said:

Extra Cargo Capacity - 5%/10%/15% Top Speed. I think this one seems self-explanatory.

iirc vehicles already have a slowdown effect after being loaded beyond original capacity?

 

dont really see a need to double down on nerfs for an already barely used mod

 

[ExoticZ 131]

On 1/23/2020 at 1:04 AM, Rehtaelle said:

Let's make it clear, I want to address SPECIFICALLY mods with either no downside or such a minute downside that they don't seem to matter. I mean, I know that no one will agree with me, but hey, I have nothing to lose by speaking up. I wouldn't call any of these *perfect* so if you have alternative solutions, speak up.

 

Brick - Surely a reasonable downside to counteract its main purpose: Exit cars 50% slower.

 

All versions of Explosives - 20% more damage taken. As this weaponizes your vehicle in a way that you the user are aware of, A means of countering this is to cause the increased blast radius to be more of a potential hindrance to the user. The driver must be more mindful of how their car is positioned, and the angle of approach. The reason that the downside is uniform across is that the expanded blast radius could be as much of a hindrance as a benefit.

 

Extra Cargo Capacity - 5%/10%/15% Top Speed. I think this one seems self-explanatory.

 

Fast-Fix Chassis - While being repaired, vehicle moves 20%/40%/60% slower. While the vehicle gets back into the fight quicker, it's more vulnerable until then.

 

Fireproofing - 20%/40%/60% Slower Repair speed.

 

Nitro - Consolidate all 3 nitro into 1 mod which is statistically between 2 and 3. 300% engine torque output, 3m/s top speed, -90% turning speed. Currently, Nitro 1 and 2 are hardly noticeable, and there is little purpose behind them other than progression filler.

 

Steel Plating - Increase downside of reduced speed from 2%/4%/6%/ to 3%/6%/9%.

Most of the mods mentioned are not even in the meta. I can agree with your standpoint with Steel Plating but thats about it. I'd nerf it even more than whats mentioned in your post. (6%/9%/12%.)

Orange mods have a downside already which is their cooldown.

 

I dont know why High Burn Fuel was not even mentioned in this post though. One of the insanely good vehicle mods which should've never been introduced to the game but here we are. (thanks G1)

[LilyRain 671]

Every mod in this game has a downside called color-code. By using a mod that has no immediate negatives, a player will still miss out on opportunities where certain-advantage of another mod of the same color could've been taken. Therefore, As long as a mod is not severely abusable, it doesn't need to have immediate negatives.

 

What makes or breaks a mod is how practical and competitive it is against other mods under the umbrella of core-game values. Even if some mods were adjusted now, some core-gameplay values are still busted. 

 

For example, since fast-fix-chassis was mentioned, even without immediate negatives no one is going to miss fast fix chassis if it happens to be patched out of the game overnight. Simply because the repair-rate of ga5 stations is insane. It is very feasable for a scummy-runaway last-stage vehicle to just drive through ga5 stations to win. Additionally, the out-of-this-world blowtorches exist. Also usable from a passenger-window, 1 blowtorch can turn tides in a mission. Combine that with the possibility that a coordinated-team can have more than 1 blowtorcher.. At this point, fast-fix-chassis has no reason to exist in the game. Not only at the competitive-level but also at the mediocre level. Even without immediate-negatives, it is simply outclassed by everything and that by itself speaks of the half-@$$ed work that was done on this game...

 

If for instance, the repair-rates on ga5 stations and blowtorches were nerfed to something like the hack-rate of a satellite-dish, then fast-fix-chassis would become more attractive and we will see more people use it as it would be the equivalent of the netbook character-equipment. At THAT point and only that point, if fast-fix-chassis appears to be game-breaking then giving it an immediate-negative should be sought after.

[Rehtaelle 18]

On 1/27/2020 at 2:32 AM, ExoticZ said:

Most of the mods mentioned are not even in the meta. I can agree with your standpoint with Steel Plating but thats about it. I'd nerf it even more than whats mentioned in your post. (6%/9%/12%.)

Orange mods have a downside already which is their cooldown.

 

I dont know why High Burn Fuel was not even mentioned in this post though. One of the insanely good vehicle mods which should've never been introduced to the game but here we are. (thanks G1)

I would contest that the no-explosion-damage is a double-edged sword, since that can sometimes work to your detriment.

 

And I guess I should clarify something. I do NOT consider a "negative effect" such as the cooldown for nitro to be a downside considering it does not apply any negative effect while the advantage is not in use.

 

And I especially do not buy into the notion that mod coloration is indicative of a form of balancing. I'm someone who believes that ALL mods should behave the way min-maxing gear behaves. An increase to an existing stat or addition of an ability should come with some form of sacrifice, and that does not count as sacrificing that slot for something else. 

 

This is what I want with all mods, that you could justify an empty slot over taking them. Not that it would be recommended, but like I said before, mods are a form of min-maxing. Reflex Sight is a perfect example of what I'm talking about, it costs you one playstyle/ advantageous situation to give you a different one. The entire point of the discussion I'm trying to raise is that I want mods to be more powerful in their ability to min-max, not to just be better than nothing at all.

 

On 1/25/2020 at 7:17 PM, Solamente said:

iirc vehicles already have a slowdown effect after being loaded beyond original capacity?

 

dont really see a need to double down on nerfs for an already barely used mod

 

This is a perfectly valid point, though maybe I had taken a short-sighted approach. Maybe +Cargo Capacity, -Speed deduction from cargo (So it would then go less slow while holding cargo), worse turn radius based on encumbrance.

 

On 1/27/2020 at 4:16 AM, Lily Rain said:

Every mod in this game has a downside called color-code. By using a mod that has no immediate negatives, a player will still miss out on opportunities where certain-advantage of another mod of the same color could've been taken. Therefore, As long as a mod is not severely abusable, it doesn't need to have immediate negatives.

 

What makes or breaks a mod is how practical and competitive it is against other mods under the umbrella of core-game values. Even if some mods were adjusted now, some core-gameplay values are still busted. 

 

For example, since fast-fix-chassis was mentioned, even without immediate negatives no one is going to miss fast fix chassis if it happens to be patched out of the game overnight. Simply because the repair-rate of ga5 stations is insane. It is very feasable for a scummy-runaway last-stage vehicle to just drive through ga5 stations to win. Additionally, the out-of-this-world blowtorches exist. Also usable from a passenger-window, 1 blowtorch can turn tides in a mission. Combine that with the possibility that a coordinated-team can have more than 1 blowtorcher.. At this point, fast-fix-chassis has no reason to exist in the game. Not only at the competitive-level but also at the mediocre level. Even without immediate-negatives, it is simply outclassed by everything and that by itself speaks of the half-@$$ed work that was done on this game...

 

If for instance, the repair-rates on ga5 stations and blowtorches were nerfed to something like the hack-rate of a satellite-dish, then fast-fix-chassis would become more attractive and we will see more people use it as it would be the equivalent of the netbook character-equipment. At THAT point and only that point, if fast-fix-chassis appears to be game-breaking then giving it an immediate-negative should be sought after.

The Blow Torch is the very reason I brought it up. Blow Torch also being one of those mods that I think needs a downside besides just not having it.

 

EDIT: On the topic of color coding, that should exist to prevent stacking certain mods of similar types, not as an indicator of power.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Rehtaelle

[BrandonBranderson 672]

I really don't like the idea of reducing the power of any version of nitro.  Nitro 1 and 2 are extremely underwhelming while Nitro 3 is just a little bit underwhelming.  If Nitro really needs an extra downside it should be one that naturally occurs from using it, not just reducing the power.  At the moment the downsides are

 

A) Potentially undesired results in high torque vehicles (This is what makes it fun in my opinion)  

B) -90% turning speed

 

The upsides are

 

1) 400% torque boost

2) +3m/s (6.7 mph) top speed boost

 

I also really don't want it to be condensed down into one mod due to rank requirements.  Currently you have to be rank 85 to use Nitro 3, which seems a little ridiculous to me.  Level 3 car mods should have the same rank requirements as level 3 weapon and character mods (R40)

I feel like if the Nitro mods were to be changed at all they should just get more of a top speed boost and no other changes.  Currently Nitro 3 only boosts the top speed of the vehicle by 6.7 MPH.  That is an incredibly small boost.  What you really feel when using Nitro is the torque boost which really only poses a benefit when accelerating.  If we were to up that speed boost stat a little then it'll make it's -90% steering speed downside more prevalent and make it considerably harder to drive.

 

And keep in mind it's just a short 5 second burst, and that triggering it doesn't immediately set your speed at the max speed boost, your car still needs to accelerate to that bonus speed.

Edited January 31, 2020 by BrandonBranderson

[Acornie 490]

I agree with ExoticZ, there's no reason to put effort into changing things that aren't even 'meta', aka no one has a complaint with them; I'll comment on the only one that might need tweaking I'd rather the effectiveness Steel Plating nerfed, not the speed, although I'm bad with thinking up numbers... 8%/16%/24%? Idk tbh

On 1/27/2020 at 4:32 AM, ExoticZ said:

I dont know why High Burn Fuel was not even mentioned in this post though. One of the insanely good vehicle mods which should've never been introduced to the game but here we are. (thanks G1)

What do think about a % decrease to the car's explosion? For example such as -40% explosive dmg and -40% radius, as to just have a little better chance of getting away from the vehicle without being completely safe

[Rehtaelle 18]

On 1/31/2020 at 8:12 AM, BrandonBranderson said:

At the moment the downsides are

 

A) Potentially undesired results in high torque vehicles (This is what makes it fun in my opinion)  

B) -90% turning speed

 

The upsides are

 

1) 400% torque boost

2) +3m/s (6.7 mph) top speed boost

Yet, those downsides ONLY exist while the upside is in use, and that upside has no penalty for being present. Okay, if you have a vehicle with Nitro, and a vehicle with no nitro, which one is objectively better? The one with nitro. Those downsides only exist as facets of the upside, and you can CHOOSE when to use it, which means you use it when the downsides don't matter. And in this game, speed and acceleration are two of the most powerful aspects of vehicles. Due to the presence of Conc grenades and rockets, a little more health PALES in comparison to the ability to get away from danger faster. Consider the Fresno vs the Cisco. Fresno's superior health doesn't matter if it's practically a sitting duck.

 

On 1/31/2020 at 8:12 AM, BrandonBranderson said:

I also really don't want it to be condensed down into one mod due to rank requirements.  Currently you have to be rank 85 to use Nitro 3, which seems a little ridiculous to me.  Level 3 car mods should have the same rank requirements as level 3 weapon and character mods (R40)

I agree. I never meant that it should be unlocked at Nitro 3's level.

 

On 1/31/2020 at 8:12 AM, BrandonBranderson said:

Currently Nitro 3 only boosts the top speed of the vehicle by 6.7 MPH.  That is an incredibly small boost. 

I will concede that point, the actual top speed is pretty shite, though the toqure is what allows vehicles with crap acceleration the ability to get out of harm's way in a damned hurry.

 

On 1/31/2020 at 10:22 AM, Acornie said:

What do think about a % decrease to the car's explosion? For example such as -40% explosive dmg and -40% radius, as to just have a little better chance of getting away from the vehicle without being completely safe

I do see your point, though I would contest that the entire point is to have there be no hazard to anyone as a part of its functionality. It can no longer be weaponized by you or against you.

[ExoticZ 131]

On 1/31/2020 at 7:22 PM, Acornie said:

What do think about a % decrease to the car's explosion? For example such as -40% explosive dmg and -40% radius, as to just have a little better chance of getting away from the vehicle without being completely safe

Either that or make it so high burn fuel takes about 20-40% of the vehicles' health. No idea what a good percentage would be considering the difference in health the vehicles have.

It has to be nerfed to the point where people would consider using other mods. Although, I'd personally just remove the mod completely.

[Rehtaelle 18]

On 2/4/2020 at 12:22 AM, ExoticZ said:

Either that or make it so high burn fuel takes about 20-40% of the vehicles' health. No idea what a good percentage would be considering the difference in health the vehicles have.

It has to be nerfed to the point where people would consider using other mods. Although, I'd personally just remove the mod completely.

I've seen vastly more people running car bomb builds than High Burn Fuel. In fact, I can't really name a whole lot of times I've EVER seen HBF in action. But that might just be my perception.

[Nanometic 265]

2 hours ago, Rehtaelle said:

I've seen vastly more people running car bomb builds than High Burn Fuel. In fact, I can't really name a whole lot of times I've EVER seen HBF in action. But that might just be my perception.

It's literally the best car mod in terms of meta.

 

Also I liked @Leefekyns idea from ages ago, make HBF convert health damage into stamina damage(fully or a percentage), people will still get punished for staying too close to it, but wont die 100% of the time. Also then allows for the ridiculous use of car det + HBF.

[Rehtaelle 18]

On 2/12/2020 at 8:07 PM, Nanometic said:

It's literally the best car mod in terms of meta.

 

Also I liked @Leefekyns idea from ages ago, make HBF convert health damage into stamina damage(fully or a percentage), people will still get punished for staying too close to it, but wont die 100% of the time. Also then allows for the ridiculous use of car det + HBF.

That idea actually sounds amazing.