dethreating is not a massive issue on Jericho (probably not even on Citadel)

[illgot 379]

Dethreating is not an issue.  The issue is player perception and a small gaming population.  Silvers threat players are a middle threat rating.  When Silvers go against lower skilled players , they are gold threat, when they go against higher skilled players they become silver again.  This is not dethreating, this is the result of having a small population, barely enough to fill 2 districts during prime time (Jericho).  There are not enough players to properly assign same threats so silvers jump back and forth.

 

Actual gold players rarely lose enough threat to drop to silver.  Actual gold players never go to bronze because of threat segregation.  Only silver threat players enter bronze because they ping back and forth between silver and gold threat due to this games small population.

 

There is no fix for this until the games population increases but that will not happen any time soon if ever.

 

The only suggestion that I know will help the game is to auto assign all trainee and bronze players to the trainee district by default.  Stop placing trainees and bronze in the "bronze" districts.  This should happen immediately so new players are no longer matched up with rank 255 silver players trolling bronze/trainee players who barely have more than the Star.

 

Let the new players learn the game in the trainee district and once they hit silver threat place them in the "bronze" districts.

 

If you want to take this idea further, remove threat segregation past the trainee district.

 

On Jericho we barely have enough players to fill two mission districts during prime time.  As long as we auto assign trainees and bronze to the trainee district (they are still free to move to other districts) there should be less of an issue with threat disparity in the mission districts (golds versus bronze).

[Bambola 379]

Brace yourself for a lot of negative feedback, but essentially you're right. However, I always thought the simplest solution is - one shouldn't be allowed to join a district below their threat level, only above, which would force golds to gold district, silvers would either join gold or stay in silver (given how tedious can be dethreating to bronze), whilst bronze players would be able to choose from 3 available threat districts, but I am afraid maybe the Jericho's low population would have issues with such system. 

[CookiePuss 5373]

35 minutes ago, Bambola said:

Brace yourself for a lot of negative feedback, but essentially you're right. However, I always thought the simplest solution is - one shouldn't be allowed to join a district below their threat level, only above, which would force golds to gold district, silvers would either join gold or stay in silver (given how tedious can be dethreating to bronze), whilst bronze players would be able to choose from 3 available threat districts, but I am afraid maybe the Jericho's low population would have issues with such system. 

I think you are right to worry about the effects of Jericho's pop.

Often silver district is unfilled and of those playing most are silver.

[Guest]

I am in the middle, im not a gold player or even a bronze one, but i hate really that i keep going gold and then come back silver, because of same players i meet in the districts, in silver is full of prefire jumpshoot etc.. you should alredy know, gold is mostly empty, bronze is always full, 2/3/4 districts, but there is a majority of Citadel in there which.. makes me confused.

 

I can't play how i am addicted to because i become gold, but the thing is im not a real gold player, so that's the problem, and is correct, is not called dethreating, because you face against T's and then vs 255 or low ranks golds in bronze and you get fucked.

 

Problems are 2;

1. matchmaking and Threat System

2. population

[OPK 5]

As it is, Gold threat is too polluted. Add a new threat above Gold, like Platinum, for example. I might be assuming too much here but each and every player should technically have a hidden ELO. Automatically make the top 10% of players with the highest ELO Platinum and make a server only accessible to those players. 

 

This segregrates the top tier players and let's them play with other similarly skilled players while preventing them from completely destroying the average player. 

 

Dethreating would be a possible danger here but seeing as only the top 10% of players would get this new threat, their ELO would also be extremely high. Again, not sure if they actually have the tools to monitor this but hopefully they do, but LO could just monitor and see if anyone was losing a lot of ELO intentionally in a certain time span. 

 

 

 

 

[warside 10]

8 minutes ago, OPK said:

As it is, Gold threat is too polluted. Add a new threat above Gold, like Platinum, for example. I might be assuming too much here but each and every player should technically have a hidden ELO. Automatically make the top 10% of players with the highest ELO Platinum and make a server only accessible to those players. 

Only problem is with the population being under 1,000, those 10% of players would be waiting for op for 30+ minutes in a district that doesn't even fill up until later hours. Or if any of those players even decide to play the game.

Edited October 20, 2019 by ChaosVeku

[illgot 379]

The small population is the cause of poor matchmaking and "dethreating".

 

No matchmaking system will be fair when you have a max of 40/40 to be matched with or less than 100 people total if they ever have phasing.

Edited October 22, 2019 by illgot

[vsb 6170]

6 hours ago, OPK said:

As it is, Gold threat is too polluted. Add a new threat above Gold, like Platinum, for example. I might be assuming too much here but each and every player should technically have a hidden ELO. Automatically make the top 10% of players with the highest ELO Platinum and make a server only accessible to those players. 

 

This segregrates the top tier players and let's them play with other similarly skilled players while preventing them from completely destroying the average player. 

 

Dethreating would be a possible danger here but seeing as only the top 10% of players would get this new threat, their ELO would also be extremely high. Again, not sure if they actually have the tools to monitor this but hopefully they do, but LO could just monitor and see if anyone was losing a lot of ELO intentionally in a certain time span. 

 

 

 

 

so make threat distribution and matchmaking even worse?

 

or are we just slapping a different color on the top 10% of golds and not changing anything?

[Hexerin 1140]

As someone who sees the issue first-hand, I can tell you unequivocally that it is in fact a very serious issue. Both in occurrence and scope.

 

When you've got a few years under your belt in the thick of it, then come back and say something.

[warside 10]

7 hours ago, illgot said:

The small population is the cause of poor matchmaking and "dethreading".

 

No matchmaking system will be fair when you have a max of 40/40 to be matched with or less than 100 people total if they ever have phasing.

I think the game's performance overall and unstable servers is the cause as well

Edited October 21, 2019 by ChaosVeku

[Speedz 147]

I know what your point is, but saying that dethreating is not an issue is simply wrong. There are players, who on puprose do not participate in missions or try to manipulate their own team by feeding the enemy team takeout points or grief their own team to dethreat to silver. Those players might not be the best players and would rather have higher chances of better opposition in bronze districts, I understand that, but that does not simply give them the right to force themselfs to a lower threat. The issue is not massive, but its been going on for some time now on Citadel and makes soloing a real pain to deal with.

[CookiePuss 5373]

1 minute ago, Speedz said:

The issue is not massive, but its been going on for some time now on Citadel and makes soloing a real pain to deal with.

Lucky... Meanwhile on Jericho, easily half of bronze district is populated by active dethreaters. Entire clans dethreating daily, bragging about it in chat, and laughing at the idea that LO will do anything about it. 

 

 

Though on the bright side, we also have far fewer cheaters when compared to EU. 

 

...so it's a trade off

[illgot 379]

6 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Lucky... Meanwhile on Jericho, easily half of bronze district is populated by active dethreaters. Entire clans dethreating daily, bragging about it in chat, and laughing at the idea that LO will do anything about it. 

 

 

Though on the bright side, we also have far fewer cheaters when compared to EU. 

 

...so it's a trade off

The "golds" in the bronze district are silver players.  They only rank to gold threat against the lowest skilled players in the game.  Against similarly skilled players these "golds" reduce to silver rank.  They usually stand zero chance against real gold players in missions which is why I often see silvers giving up the fight mid mission.

 

They don't have to dethreat, they just have to play against golds to drop back down to the silver threat they actually are.

 

And this is the perception issue that is causing people to completely misunderstand the impact that a small population has on threat segregation.  No threat segregation, other than possibly keeping the bronze and trainees in the trainee district, will give people fair missions when the games population is barely 100 players during prime time for mission districts.

 

The issue is not dethreating, it is the pathetically small population APB has and no real place for silvers since they are in the middle between the lowest skilled players and the highest skilled players (as there are barely enough people to fill two districts while trying to maintain 4 separate threat ratings).

Edited October 21, 2019 by illgot

[CookiePuss 5373]

3 hours ago, illgot said:

~snip~

Smells like the making of excuses for bad behavior.

[Fortune Runner 796]

8 hours ago, illgot said:

The "golds" in the bronze district are silver players

one gold within a week ago admitted on the forums to dethreating.

others are known golds who do fine against other golds.

to say the golds in bronze are only silvers is inaccurate especially with how some do not even try to hide they are gold all day long then dethreat so that they come back the next day they play....

8 hours ago, illgot said:

The issue is not dethreating, it is the pathetically small population APB has and no real place for silvers since they are in the middle between the lowest skilled players and the highest skilled players (as there are barely enough people to fill two districts while trying to maintain 4 separate threat ratings).

if golds and silvers played in gold , and silvers did not go below silver district , then this could work well enough if we had the summer population

seeing how some went back to school/college we lost numbers for now which is usual.

8 hours ago, illgot said:

And this is the perception issue that is causing people to completely misunderstand the impact that a small population has on threat segregation

i play in bronze as well as silver. when i see a person gold in both it is pretty obvious they dethreat to stomp on bronzes

Edited October 22, 2019 by Fortune Runner

[illgot 379]

5 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Smells like the making of excuses for bad behavior.

no, it's an explanation of how silver players go back and forth between silver and gold depending on the opponents they fight. 

 

When a silver fights real gold players, they remain silver. 

When a silver fights silver players, they remain silver.

When a silver fights bronze and trainee players, they gain gold threat.

 

That is not an excuse for bad behavior, that is why the "dethreaters" are silver in the silver district and gold in the bronze district.

 

1 hour ago, Fortune Runner said:

one gold within a week ago admitted on the forums to dethreating.

others are known golds who do fine against other golds.

to say the golds in bronze are only silvers is inaccurate especially with how some do not even try to hide they are gold all day long then dethreat so that they come back the next day they play....

if golds and silvers played in gold , and silvers did not go below silver district , then this could work well enough if we had the summer population

seeing how some went back to school/college we lost numbers for now which is usual.

i play in bronze as well as silver. when i see a person gold in both it is pretty obvious they dethreat to stomp on bronzes

What happens when a silver player drops to the bronze district and fights a lot of low skill silvers, bronze, and trainees?  You play the bronze district as a max rank, you should know exactly what happens.  You gain a high gold threat because you have been fighting easy targets.  Then when you log off you remain high gold threat.  When you log back on you are still a high gold threat and now are forced to play in the silver district against actual gold players... that destroy you.  Why?  Because the threat system thinks you are a high gold threat player because you were stomping bronze and trainee players.

 

Now you are forced to play a few games against real golds until the system realizes you are not actually a gold threat player and drops you back to silver where you belong.

 

You are basically blaming people for dethreating when you are doing the same exact thing.  You are gold in the silver district because you just spent a few hours in the bronze district destroying easy targets.

 

By your own logic you are a dethreater because you are gold in the silver district and the bronze district.

 

The only players who should be segregated from other players are bronze and trainee threat players.  These players should be auto placed in the trainee district and everyone else should play non segregated mission districts until the phasing or the population increases 10 fold.

 

For silver threat players, gaining and losing threat is natural when the games population is as small as it is.  There are not enough of any threat rating to constantly match players with in their skill level.

Edited October 22, 2019 by illgot

[Fortune Runner 796]

45 minutes ago, illgot said:

What happens when a silver player drops to the bronze district and fights a lot of low skill silvers, bronze, and trainees?  You play the bronze district as a max rank, you should know exactly what happens.  You gain a high gold threat because you have been fighting easy targets.  Then when you log off you remain high gold threat.  When you log back on you are still a high gold threat and now are forced to play in the silver district against actual gold players... that destroy you.  Why?  Because the threat system thinks you are a high gold threat player because you were stomping bronze and trainee players.

that is not accurate.

it happens to some when they destroy ops all day but the ones who dethreat get gold almost instantaneously

 

 

49 minutes ago, illgot said:

You are basically blaming people for dethreating when you are doing the same exact thing.  You are gold in the silver district because you just spent a few hours in the bronze district destroying easy targets.

 

By your own logic you are a dethreater because you are gold in the silver district and the bronze district.

 

I do not dethreat. period.

I play where I feel like because I'm a solid silver unless a gold carries me or a gold is dethreating and  I notice too late

I have stated this on the forums for no less than a year now.

so quite frankly I'd appreciate it if you did not falsely accuse me ,  just because i pointed out things i witnessed myself , as a means to try to win a discussion or argument on the forums.

 

51 minutes ago, illgot said:

The only players who should be segregated from other players are bronze and trainee threat players.  These players should be auto placed in the trainee district and everyone else should play non segregated mission districts until the phasing or the population increases 10 fold.

 i have to disagree.

some silvers can not even get one kill on a high gold.

thats why i hope phasing comes soon so people get matched with those of equal skill easier

 

53 minutes ago, illgot said:

For silver threat players, gaining and losing threat is natural when the games population is as small as it is.  There are not enough of any threat rating to constantly match players with in their skill level.

gaining and losing is natural regardless in a pvp game but by no means should it be so easy to gain or lose ranks and regardless of that low player count at no time justifys golds who have been dethreating

 

 

[illgot 379]

13 minutes ago, Fortune Runner said:

that is not accurate.

it happens to some when they destroy ops all day but the ones who dethreat get gold almost instantaneously

 

 

I do not dethreat. period.

I play where I feel like because I'm a solid silver unless a gold carries me or a gold is dethreating and  I notice too late

I have stated this on the forums for no less than a year now.

so quite frankly I'd appreciate it if you did not falsely accuse me ,  just because i pointed out things i witnessed myself , as a means to try to win a discussion or argument on the forums.

 

 i have to disagree.

some silvers can not even get one kill on a high gold.

thats why i hope phasing comes soon so people get matched with those of equal skill easier

 

gaining and losing is natural regardless in a pvp game but by no means should it be so easy to gain or lose ranks and regardless of that low player count at no time justifys golds who have been dethreating

 

 

are you telling me that you have been playing this game since 2014 and STILL have not seen what happens to silver threats that go to the bronze district and baby punches bronze and trainee players mission after mission.  It doesn't take much for even a mid tier silver to hit gold threat against people who are 1-2 tiers below them.

 

It is like you do not understand that your threat level is dynamic to those you are fighting.  If you are fighting lower skilled opponents your threat level will rise.  If you are fighting higher skilled opponents your threat will drop back down.  If you are fighting an equal mix you will remain where you are (silver threat).  This is natural and unfortunately in APB a few matches can change your threat rating due to the games small population and threat segregation via district (of which there are only two choices).

[Fortune Runner 796]

1 hour ago, illgot said:

are you telling me that you have been playing this game since 2014 and STILL have not seen what happens to silver threats that go to the bronze district and baby punches bronze and trainee players mission after mission.  It doesn't take much for even a mid tier silver to hit gold threat against people who are 1-2 tiers below them.

 

It is like you do not understand that your threat level is dynamic to those you are fighting.  If you are fighting lower skilled opponents your threat level will rise.  If you are fighting higher skilled opponents your threat will drop back down.  If you are fighting an equal mix you will remain where you are (silver threat).  This is natural and unfortunately in APB a few matches can change your threat rating due to the games small population and threat segregation via district (of which there are only two choices).

you clearly do not want to admit there are dethreaters and are trying to toss out random facts  and even those facts you only quoted half truths on.

 

you accused me now dodged my reply to your accusations and assumptions that you used to try justifying yourself

and now you are throwing out "facts" that arent even the whole truth to what you mentioned but only fractions of it .

 

all this because you do not want to admit there are KNOWN dethreaters and some of which do not even hide it.

one of which admitted it on the forums this past week or so.

your thread is false by their own admissions on server and on forums.

[illgot 379]

6 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

you clearly do not want to admit there are dethreaters and are trying to toss out random facts  and even those facts you only quoted half truths on.

 

you accused me now dodged my reply to your accusations and assumptions that you used to try justifying yourself

and now you are throwing out "facts" that arent even the whole truth to what you mentioned but only fractions of it .

 

all this because you do not want to admit there are KNOWN dethreaters and some of which do not even hide it.

one of which admitted it on the forums this past week or so.

your thread is false by their own admissions on server and on forums.

Some people dethreat intentionally.  I never said otherwise, but you assume that every gold in the bronze district is an elite veteran who is only there because they intentionally threw 100 games just to drop to silver.

 

That is not happening.  There are no real gold threat players in the bronze district.  Silvers are joining the bronze and fighting easy opponents, going gold because their threat rating in relation to bronze and trainees is much higher than when they fight real golds and silvers.

 

How am I having to explain such a simple concept to a person like you who has a max rank character and been playing for the last 5 years?

Edited October 22, 2019 by illgot

[CookiePuss 5373]

10 hours ago, illgot said:

no, it's an explanation of how silver players go back and forth between silver and gold depending on the opponents they fight. 

 

When a silver fights real gold players, they remain silver. 

When a silver fights silver players, they remain silver.

When a silver fights bronze and trainee players, they gain gold threat.

Thats not how it works, regardless of opp threat, every match either raises or lowers threat.

 

 

Now if you are talking about your threat naturally going down, obviously that's not dethreating, and therefore not part of this discussion.

[Fortune Runner 796]

6 hours ago, illgot said:

Some people dethreat intentionally.  I never said otherwise, but you assume that every gold in the bronze district is an elite veteran who is only there because they intentionally threw 100 games just to drop to silver.

once again it is accusations and assumptions about me to justify yourself. I assume nothing of a gold color.

16 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

to say the golds in bronze are only silvers is inaccurate especially with how some do not even try to hide they are gold all day long then dethreat so that they come back the next day they play....

that refers to how a person can be gold in bronze all day and dethreats to come back.

 

dethreating is not a massive issue on Jericho (probably not even on Citadel)  -- is the title of this thread you made which is about how supposably dethreating is not an issue.

 

16 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

one gold within a week ago admitted on the forums to dethreating.

others are known golds who do fine against other golds.

to say the golds in bronze are only silvers is inaccurate especially with how some do not even try to hide they are gold all day long then dethreat so that they come back the next day they play....

this has been proven on the forums this past week  by one who admits it himself as well as others who dont hide it either.

 

6 hours ago, illgot said:

That is not happening.  There are no real gold threat players in the bronze district.  Silvers are joining the bronze and fighting easy opponents, going gold because their threat rating in relation to bronze and trainees is much higher than when they fight real golds and silvers.

1. it was already pointed out a gold admits to dethreating on the forums to play in bronze.

2. there are others who are known golds who also do this and openly admit to it in game.

    others can easily be noticed as a full blown gold killing other golds on equal footing when they are in silver district.

 

3. Do you even play in bronze district?   If not then you are making a false claim about knowledge regarding bronze district.

    And regardless of if you play there or not , there is one gold on the forums  who this past week or so admitted to dethreating OPENLY and there are others in district who do not hide it either.

 

[illgot 379]

56 minutes ago, Fortune Runner said:

once again it is accusations and assumptions about me to justify yourself. I assume nothing of a gold color.

that refers to how a person can be gold in bronze all day and dethreats to come back.

 

dethreating is not a massive issue on Jericho (probably not even on Citadel)  -- is the title of this thread you made which is about how supposably dethreating is not an issue.

 

this has been proven on the forums this past week  by one who admits it himself as well as others who dont hide it either.

 

1. it was already pointed out a gold admits to dethreating on the forums to play in bronze.

2. there are others who are known golds who also do this and openly admit to it in game.

    others can easily be noticed as a full blown gold killing other golds on equal footing when they are in silver district.

 

3. Do you even play in bronze district?   If not then you are making a false claim about knowledge regarding bronze district.

    And regardless of if you play there or not , there is one gold on the forums  who this past week or so admitted to dethreating OPENLY and there are others in district who do not hide it either.

 

I'm sure both of us sound like broken records but having one person who says they are a good player and dethreat to play the bronze server means very little.

 

A real gold player rarely loses their silver threat rating because they are the top tier players in the game even if they aren't the best.  People who consider themselves gold threat because they drop to silver to enter the bronze district are not golds, they are at best high silvers in relation to real gold players.

 

Why would any top tier player want to face bronze and trainees anyway.  It's pointless as they already destroy silvers with ease.

 

I now see that the concept of temporary threat rating being subjective based on an opponents threat rating is a concept you refuse to understand and that you fully believe it when people call themselves gold players but need to drop down to the bronze district to win games?

 

My threat is gold when I play missions and work objectives and that is with horrible aim and reaction time.  But right now I'm silver/gold just doing dailies, ignoring kills and objectives unless the daily requires them.  Even then when I do the bare minimal for dailies I still peak gold in the bronze and silver districts.

Edited October 22, 2019 by illgot

[Fortune Runner 796]

1 hour ago, illgot said:

I'm sure both of us sound like broken records but having one person who says they are a good player and dethreat to play the bronze server means very little.

while this statement is true that one person means little , it is more than one.

1 hour ago, illgot said:

A real gold player rarely loses their silver threat rating because they are the top tier players in the game even if they aren't the best.  People who consider themselves gold threat because they drop to silver to enter the bronze district are not golds, they are at best high silvers in relation to real gold players.

thats an assumption not a fact. not everyone cheats but there are those who enjoy it and enjoy being distasteful to others.

 

1 hour ago, illgot said:

Why would any top tier player want to face bronze and trainees anyway.  It's pointless as they already destroy silvers with ease.

because some enjoy being an @## and thrive off of it. some people are that dark and wicked.

 

 

1 hour ago, illgot said:

I now see that the concept of temporary threat rating being subjective based on an opponents threat rating is a concept you refuse to understand and that you fully believe it when people call themselves gold players but need to drop down to the bronze district to win games?

I do not refuse to understand anything , but if it is not the topic then those "facts" are not a part of the topic so....

 

1 hour ago, illgot said:

My threat is gold when I play missions and work objectives and that is with horrible aim and reaction time.  But right now I'm silver/gold just doing dailies, ignoring kills and objectives unless the daily requires them.  Even then when I do the bare minimal for dailies I still peak gold in the bronze and silver districts.

okie dokie. (no idea what else to say to this)

 

 

[BlatMan 706]

I constantly get placed against players who refuse to participate in the mission. Every time I play APB I run into multiple players who go AFK, ignores the objectives, team kill, suicide, ect. I stopped bothering sending reports because it's obvious they're being ignored. I guess you have to get 1000s of team kills a day for something to be done.