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Seadee

Rank and Threat based Districts

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Instead of just spinning up the districts based on threat, you could do them by rank as well.

you'd end up with 9 potential types of district... most of it would probably be empty, but its not that much different than it is right now

Three Threat colours, gold, silver and bronze, combined with 3 rank ranges, something like 0-84,85-149,150-255 (can be adjusted to what ever suits, but the idea was to have the spread of ranks so that they didnt have access to certain mods, which wouldnt seem "unfair" to lower ranked players)

The main upshot of this is dethreaters get put in the high rank bronze section and not against new players... although it doesnt fix the issue of people rerolling.

food for thought, feel free to discuss.

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7 minutes ago, NotZombieBiscuit said:

Rank is not an indicator of skill.

you are correct, that is why (if you read what i have written in the OP) i said, separate the districts by skill (threat) AND rank, so you end up with 9 different Districts

4522139963883520.png?k=iSkLO8n8uDOrgHFwr

Edited by Seadee

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From a certain standpoint (that is, taking rank limitations on items into account) this suggestion makes sense. I've seen a similar system in other games - off the top of my head, Dirty Bomb (RIP sweet prince) had "Max Level 7" servers, which served to prevent veterans from stomping on newbies and players who may not have as much as them in terms of unlocked content.

 

The suggested system also seems to take into account that a Rank 10 Silver will have a very different skillset from a Rank 10 Bronze - which is a big plus.

 

I feel like one of the biggest positives of this type of matchmaking would be the removal of the first impression that some new players have - that everyone is stomping on them using mods they can't get for themselves just yet... though it does raise the question of what to do about R195 mod leases from Joker Distribution.

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1 hour ago, Seadee said:

you are correct, that is why (if you read what i have written in the OP) i said, separate the districts by skill (threat) AND rank, so you end up with 9 different Districts

4522139963883520.png?k=iSkLO8n8uDOrgHFwr

 

...but why?

 

Adding more districts just because you can?

The many suggestions of forcing players to be locked to their threat's district would cause district numbers to drop as it is, but dividing the current district numbers by 9?

You'd have 10 people per district at the very best peak of times on a good day.

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I kinda agree with @VickyFox on the drop in population..

But the  idea is worth looking into IF Jericho can be merged with Citidal... other then that I don't see how this is possible with the current population...

Because I'm a R240 High bronze and it REALLY sucks facing low golds and high Silvers all day long..

Now how about this added to your original post, 

Let's make a counter for a players death.

We already have a kill/arrest counter in the game.( press J to see it when your in a district) 

I guarantee you this... a lot of people will quit fast when they start  getting marches based on their k/d ratio..

They cannot handle players of the same skill set so they stay bashing low/newbies 

Edited by cyral
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They will keep k/d ratios at bad state, which is easier than dethreating. You can win bronzies without even kill them lol. Or get killed a lot on purpose.

 

The solution is other and i repeated it many times: bigger pop and diversity of skill so player can scalate the getting good stairs.

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15 hours ago, VickyFox said:

 

...but why?

 

Adding more districts just because you can?

The many suggestions of forcing players to be locked to their threat's district would cause district numbers to drop as it is, but dividing the current district numbers by 9?

You'd have 10 people per district at the very best peak of times on a good day.


yeah, you wont have 9 different types of district filled at any given moment, most will be the high rank ones, since most players have played long enough, i wouldnt FORCE people to be locked into it, but people would not be able to join if their rank is too high perhaps? so a rank 1 could join the 150+ but a rank 150 couldnt join the 0-84...

 

12 hours ago, cyral said:

I kinda agree with @VickyFox on the drop in population..

But the  idea is worth looking into IF Jericho can be merged with Citidal... other then that I don't see how this is possible with the current population...

Because I'm a R240 High bronze and it REALLY sucks facing low golds and high Silvers all day long..

Now how about this added to your original post, 

Let's make a counter for a players death.

We already have a kill/arrest counter in the game.( press J to see it when your in a district) 

I guarantee you this... a lot of people will quit fast when they start  getting marches based on their k/d ratio..

They cannot handle players of the same skill set so they stay bashing low/newbies 


at the point the servers are merged, we'd be in 3.5 and the matchmaking would be different so there wont be any point in doing it 🙂

 

 

 

9 hours ago, BlueB said:

They will keep k/d ratios at bad state, which is easier than dethreating. You can win bronzies without even kill them lol. Or get killed a lot on purpose.

 

The solution is other and i repeated it many times: bigger pop and diversity of skill so player can scalate the getting good stairs.


Obviously having more players makes it easier to match make, but it was never perfect back when we did have a big enough population, still had rubbish matches because players threat to actual skill levels always got skewed by unbalanced missions and poor choices opposition in the district.

Server wide (not just per district) match making and a unified population would definately give the diversity required to make it all work.

as it stands, the low threat high ranks are still more dangerous than low threat low ranks, and it causes new players to drop the game (amongst other things) giving the possibility to separate it out by rank (thus use-able features) could tidy this up...

on thinking about it

perhaps the rank restriction isnt on the players themselves but on the mods they can use? 

thus you can join the low district, but you'd be restricted to low level mods to "even the playing field" ? 



edit : i apologise Martin i didnt see your post

 

16 hours ago, MartinPL said:

From a certain standpoint (that is, taking rank limitations on items into account) this suggestion makes sense. I've seen a similar system in other games - off the top of my head, Dirty Bomb (RIP sweet prince) had "Max Level 7" servers, which served to prevent veterans from stomping on newbies and players who may not have as much as them in terms of unlocked content.

 

The suggested system also seems to take into account that a Rank 10 Silver will have a very different skillset from a Rank 10 Bronze - which is a big plus.

 

I feel like one of the biggest positives of this type of matchmaking would be the removal of the first impression that some new players have - that everyone is stomping on them using mods they can't get for themselves just yet... though it does raise the question of what to do about R195 mod leases from Joker Distribution.


Yeah, pretty much what i was thinking originally, but if it was made so it was mod restricted servers, then sure the skillsets would be wildly different, on an experience level the high ranks would still be better, but they perhaps wouldnt be at such a perceived advantage .

the real solution is like BlueB said, but with what we have right now, nothing will work out for anyone, since they can spin up certain districts, it makes sense that they could spin one up with certain restrictions on them.

Edited by Seadee

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On 7/19/2019 at 5:50 AM, Seadee said:


yeah, you wont have 9 different types of district filled at any given moment, most will be the high rank ones, since most players have played long enough, i wouldnt FORCE people to be locked into it, but people would not be able to join if their rank is too high perhaps? so a rank 1 could join the 150+ but a rank 150 couldnt join the 0-84...

 


at the point the servers are merged, we'd be in 3.5 and the matchmaking would be different so there wont be any point in doing it 🙂

 

 

 


Obviously having more players makes it easier to match make, but it was never perfect back when we did have a big enough population, still had rubbish matches because players threat to actual skill levels always got skewed by unbalanced missions and poor choices opposition in the district.

Server wide (not just per district) match making and a unified population would definately give the diversity required to make it all work.

as it stands, the low threat high ranks are still more dangerous than low threat low ranks, and it causes new players to drop the game (amongst other things) giving the possibility to separate it out by rank (thus use-able features) could tidy this up...

on thinking about it

perhaps the rank restriction isnt on the players themselves but on the mods they can use? 

thus you can join the low district, but you'd be restricted to low level mods to "even the playing field" ? 



edit : i apologise Martin i didnt see your post

 


Yeah, pretty much what i was thinking originally, but if it was made so it was mod restricted servers, then sure the skillsets would be wildly different, on an experience level the high ranks would still be better, but they perhaps wouldnt be at such a perceived advantage .

the real solution is like BlueB said, but with what we have right now, nothing will work out for anyone, since they can spin up certain districts, it makes sense that they could spin one up with certain restrictions on them.

This game never been for soft people... like i explained, you can do everything you named for them to be more "comfortable" and still, they will quit for a reason or another. 

 

Unifying servers will be a lag fest, and will force people who is used to lower pings to quit.

That phasing or i dont know what will get u load screens all the time, i think it will be like switching districts with every match it starts? With all that it implies -like spawning again, spawn car, etc.- it will be really annoying imo. That means less pop again, but maybe its just me.

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On 7/21/2019 at 9:45 AM, Pangolier said:

This game never been for soft people... like i explained, you can do everything you named for them to be more "comfortable" and still, they will quit for a reason or another. 

 

Unifying servers will be a lag fest, and will force people who is used to lower pings to quit.

That phasing or i dont know what will get u load screens all the time, i think it will be like switching districts with every match it starts? With all that it implies -like spawning again, spawn car, etc.- it will be really annoying imo. That means less pop again, but maybe its just me.


unifying log in servers isn't the same as "put all the district severs in the same location" you'd completely change the architecture of how the "servers" are structured ... cloud based systems would allow you to spin up a district in the most viable location (dependant on infrastructure) 

you are also thinking of this based on the current way APB works and not how the new engine could work, which by all reports is far better than current for loading times etc.

switching district, with phasing, wouldn't need to reload assets, so you'd only be reloading cars and living work i assume, so yeah that MIGHT be a tiny bit annoying, but the overall improvement far outweighs that minor annoyance and are you also telling me that you don't respawn a car at the start of a mission anyway? but like i said, it's just an assumption as i've no idea how they will implement it in APB.

"this game has never been for soft people" is such a cop out excuse i dont even believe you believe it when you say it, pretty much everyone who plays this game is of a level of whine that only cheese would accompany them successfully, the people who maintain gold are perhaps the onnly ones who dont constant and aggressively fuzzy bunny about everything, all those "golds" in bronze districts and pretty much everyone else, those are the soft people who have issues with everything in this game.

Silver makes up the most players, they complain about golds who have no one to play against
Silvers who play in bronze win lots and rank up to gold, they complain about it being too hard in silver
bronze who never rank up because of silvers in bronze who rank up to gold complain about "dethreaters" as if its actually a huge problem... sounds like a lot of soft people to me, would be a shame if someone did something to fix all the problems in the game... 

i'm not angry, i respect your opinion, i just think its wrong that's all. 

 

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On 7/22/2019 at 6:21 AM, Seadee said:


unifying log in servers isn't the same as "put all the district severs in the same location" you'd completely change the architecture of how the "servers" are structured ... cloud based systems would allow you to spin up a district in the most viable location (dependant on infrastructure) 

you are also thinking of this based on the current way APB works and not how the new engine could work, which by all reports is far better than current for loading times etc.

switching district, with phasing, wouldn't need to reload assets, so you'd only be reloading cars and living work i assume, so yeah that MIGHT be a tiny bit annoying, but the overall improvement far outweighs that minor annoyance and are you also telling me that you don't respawn a car at the start of a mission anyway? but like i said, it's just an assumption as i've no idea how they will implement it in APB.

"this game has never been for soft people" is such a cop out excuse i dont even believe you believe it when you say it, pretty much everyone who plays this game is of a level of whine that only cheese would accompany them successfully, the people who maintain gold are perhaps the onnly ones who dont constant and aggressively fuzzy bunny about everything, all those "golds" in bronze districts and pretty much everyone else, those are the soft people who have issues with everything in this game.

Silver makes up the most players, they complain about golds who have no one to play against
Silvers who play in bronze win lots and rank up to gold, they complain about it being too hard in silver
bronze who never rank up because of silvers in bronze who rank up to gold complain about "dethreaters" as if its actually a huge problem... sounds like a lot of soft people to me, would be a shame if someone did something to fix all the problems in the game... 

i'm not angry, i respect your opinion, i just think its wrong that's all. 

 

Me neither, i also think your opinion is wrong.

 

Mostly silvers? After changing the game to appeal to that population? maybe. The game was and is designed for skilled people, and enoyable.

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12 hours ago, Pangolier said:

Mostly silvers? After changing the game to appeal to that population? maybe. The game was and is designed for skilled people, and enoyable.

Statistically, its mostly silver, that was stated at the point the threat system changed and it completely obvious when you look at the distribution of districts, it's neither here nor there as the make up of the skill spectrum has no bearing on my actual idea, as if there are in fact more gold players then there would be more gold districts to play in, easy.

i also don't disagree with you that the game is designed for people who enjoy a challenge and put forward a decent amount of skill, the Bronze and Silver ranks are (personally speaking) just the stepping stones to get you prepared for the actual game (Gold) but there are people who are not as skilled as some who find it a challenge to be silver, some even find bronze a challenge, being "soft" has nothing to do with skill, its their attitude, i've seen plenty of high ranked golds who are "soft" .

Edited by Seadee

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On 7/29/2019 at 5:39 AM, Seadee said:

Statistically, its mostly silver, that was stated at the point the threat system changed and it completely obvious when you look at the distribution of districts, it's neither here nor there as the make up of the skill spectrum has no bearing on my actual idea, as if there are in fact more gold players then there would be more gold districts to play in, easy.

i also don't disagree with you that the game is designed for people who enjoy a challenge and put forward a decent amount of skill, the Bronze and Silver ranks are (personally speaking) just the stepping stones to get you prepared for the actual game (Gold) but there are people who are not as skilled as some who find it a challenge to be silver, some even find bronze a challenge, being "soft" has nothing to do with skill, its their attitude, i've seen plenty of high ranked golds who are "soft" .

Getting matched with people of your own skill wont make you advance either...

Appealing to low skilled people and changing the game for them wont bring people back, and barely new.

Edited by Pangolier

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27 minutes ago, Pangolier said:

Getting matched with people of your own skill wont make you advance either...

Appealing to low skilled people and changing the game for them wont bring people back, and barely new.

that's exactly how it works!? 

Match against people your skill level, beat them enough, your skill level goes up, match against people who were higher than you before, try to beat them, beat them, keep going up, that's literally how matchmaking should and does work... 

it's not appealing to low skilled people, its changing the game so EVERYONE fights who they are SUPPOSED to fight in an effort to make the game BETTER FOR EVERYONE. 

you have a bit of an obsession with "low skill players" if anything, you sound a bit too salty about this whole thing and i cant see a reason why you should be. 

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1 hour ago, Seadee said:

that's exactly how it works!? 

Match against people your skill level, beat them enough, your skill level goes up, match against people who were higher than you before, try to beat them, beat them, keep going up, that's literally how matchmaking should and does work... 

it's not appealing to low skilled people, its changing the game so EVERYONE fights who they are SUPPOSED to fight in an effort to make the game BETTER FOR EVERYONE. 

you have a bit of an obsession with "low skill players" if anything, you sound a bit too salty about this whole thing and i cant see a reason why you should be. 

Wrong? The game wasnt better for everyone back then but popoulated enough and funny.

You cant know how to make a game better for everyone with a pop like this?

Edited by Pangolier

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2 minutes ago, Pangolier said:

Wrong? The game wasnt better for everyone back then but popoulated enough and funny.

You cant know how to make a game better for everyone with a pop like this?

at this point i dont even know what you are saying any more...

my OP is about how LO could make life easier for EVERYONE for matchmaking purposes, not make the game easier, as in, make it less of a cluster buck than it is right now.

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22 hours ago, Seadee said:

at this point i dont even know what you are saying any more...

my OP is about how LO could make life easier for EVERYONE for matchmaking purposes, not make the game easier, as in, make it less of a cluster buck than it is right now.

 

Rank only portrays the progress made in action district which means little, Threat is a bit of a red herring and match making is a total sh!tstorm of a mess...

 

Again, you said it yourself that rerolling undermines matchmaking and threats. If people are willing to put constant continued effort into dethreating and staying bronze, a 5 minute job of making a new account must be like an investment!

 

OP seems to just swap 1 Fuster Cluck for another. I don't see how this simplifies, compensates, mitigates or really addressing of the underlying problems or the more surface level issues.

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5 hours ago, VickyFox said:

 

Rank only portrays the progress made in action district which means little, Threat is a bit of a red herring and match making is a total sh!tstorm of a mess...

 

Again, you said it yourself that rerolling undermines matchmaking and threats. If people are willing to put constant continued effort into dethreating and staying bronze, a 5 minute job of making a new account must be like an investment!

 

OP seems to just swap 1 Fuster Cluck for another. I don't see how this simplifies, compensates, mitigates or really addressing of the underlying problems or the more surface level issues.

I'm well aware what rank  and threat are and mean, dont need to pretend you are giving anything new away here, as it stands matchmaking doesnt work, wont work, cant work until the EU happens, upon which point a selection of technologies will be unleashed.

until that happens, we have broken APB to deal with, what we know is that you can spawn districts, we know you could in theory, limit who can join districts based on certain things...

maybe if they could limit districts based on Account play time it would work much easier, but again, people could just make a "smurf" ... nothing stopping them doing it now, or in the future even if match making did work, the people who want to beat noobs will always want to do that, i guess they find it rewarding to punch invalids too... 

you are right about the Fuster Cluck though 😄 can't side step that issue atm, Just trying to work the system we have to make things a little more organised?? new players vs veteran players (even if the same actual skill) is a big no for player retention, in a game that looks like you are more powerful with a higher rank (new players will associate rank with level and level with having more op stuff) 
 

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On 7/21/2019 at 4:45 AM, Pangolier said:

That phasing or i dont know what will get u load screens all the time, i think it will be like switching districts with every match it starts? With all that it implies -like spawning again, spawn car, etc.- it will be really annoying imo. That means less pop again, but maybe its just me.

Phasing means a seamless transition between servers with no loading screens.  When it transitions you to a new server the only thing it will have to do is resync server-side objects like cars.  You can still continue driving around while you transition without having to respawn.  This has been confirmed by Matt.

Edited by BrandonBranderson
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6 hours ago, BrandonBranderson said:

Phasing means a seamless transition between servers with no loading screens.  When it transitions you to a new server the only thing it will have to do is resync server-side objects like cars.  You can still continue driving around while you transition without having to respawn.  This has been confirmed by Matt.

That is the idea, concept and intention.

 

...But this is Little Orbit which are a new company that is foolish to make the same mistakes repeatedly. And the engine upgrade to unreal engine 3.5, To some would describe using such words such as elusive, mythical or even a lie!

 

Call it as I see with with Little Orbit. If at all, It won't be tested enough to the point of glitches needing a patch and Matt Scott making a statement... again!

As for the phasing itself, Well Unreal Engine 3.5 is going to be tested, Phasing however is a completely new concept that would completely change matching making in a way that has never been done before in APB.

$5 says that servers will go down multiple times an hour, and not because of demand from high populations numbers or DDoS attacks.

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11 hours ago, VickyFox said:

That is the idea, concept and intention.

 

...But this is Little Orbit which are a new company that is foolish to make the same mistakes repeatedly. And the engine upgrade to unreal engine 3.5, To some would describe using such words such as elusive, mythical or even a lie!

 

Call it as I see with with Little Orbit. If at all, It won't be tested enough to the point of glitches needing a patch and Matt Scott making a statement... again!

As for the phasing itself, Well Unreal Engine 3.5 is going to be tested, Phasing however is a completely new concept that would completely change matching making in a way that has never been done before in APB.

$5 says that servers will go down multiple times an hour, and not because of demand from high populations numbers or DDoS attacks.

Are you actually DarkZero? you seem very pessimistic about this.

Edited by Seadee

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i like this.

 

then all the edgy kids will have to play on their main characters to harass players they are mad at

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11 hours ago, Seadee said:

Are you actually DarkZero? you seem very pessimistic about this.

DarkZero and I have become friends in the past but we don't talk as much as we used to, While he is in the US, I am in the UK.

 

In the past I was optimistic and felt a renewed sense of hope as Little Orbit came in and after witnessing what GamersFirst were like, Little Orbit showed incredible enthusiasm, engagement and was upfront and transparent with progress and intentions for the future.

 

However after Autumn Assault, Contagion and Slaybells being 3 events coming within months of each other with the same mistakes being made in how holiday events should be handled.

Then Riot's open beta was brought out after a delayed delay. One can understand that Little Orbit is learning everything for the first time but the community could of and in some cases did warn about mistakes being made. In some cases the mistakes were repeated.

 

When completely new game mode which is trending right now for other games is just a flash in the pan for APB and servers return to normal after a week and a half, I feel that is the moment when Little Orbit have to urgently stop and reconsider their next move and expectations, but not just Little Orbit but so does the APB Community need to reconsider their expectations and what this will mean.

I was hoping and counting on Riot bringing in more new players but it just didn't, in hind sight that's because there hasn't been any external publicity about it. It was receive rather unwell by APB's community because it is still in testing, it's not a true Battle Royale mode, and that it exists at all.

 

 

 

While I tried to maintain hope for Unreal Engine 3.5 being the turning point for APB, and then the flood gates can open up to truly get the game on the road to recovery; I have to say that unfortunately after keeping a keen eye on population numbers and after seeing the reaction to Riot, I've lost a lot of that hope.

I WAS quietly optimistic but if I seem pessimistic now, It's because I am predicting a pessimistic future

 

If Riot was anything to go by and now having a long enough period to get an idea of how Little Orbit performence is on average, It's not a reassuring wider image i'm looking at.

Unreal Engine 3.5 and Phasing may bring back old players, but you know that means it'll bring back old cheaters, hackers and attempted DDoS attacks.

It is highly unlikely that either of these will bring in new players and that's extremely concerning.

 

Little Orbit/Matt Scott has not divulged any intentions, plans or ideas how to bring new players to APB. I believe for them it is a hurdle they'll get to when they get there but the here and now is addressing the outdated engine and broken matchmaking and threat systems.

Edited by VickyFox

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On 7/31/2019 at 1:36 PM, BrandonBranderson said:

Phasing means a seamless transition between servers with no loading screens.  When it transitions you to a new server the only thing it will have to do is resync server-side objects like cars.  You can still continue driving around while you transition without having to respawn.  This has been confirmed by Matt.

Sound way too fantastic to be honest... but ty for info.

What about lag?

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14 hours ago, Pangolier said:

Sound way too fantastic to be honest... but ty for info.

What about lag?

Sure it sounds a little too fantastic for APB to have a system like this, to the point where it's hard to imagine actually, but the new engine will open up a ton of possibilities in terms of how they can further develop the game in the future, and there are already games that use a phasing system.  Apparently it was introduced by WoW.   The way I assume it works is that it pretty much joins you into a different server without dumping the game's assets from your PC's memory which makes a loading screen unnecessary so that you can just continue playing.

 

Only downside I see of this system is that the resync might end up being a little jarring.  We might encounter a lot of "time traveler" moments where another player in their car just appears out of nowhere.  My hope is that collisions with other vehicles will be disabled for a few seconds when the transition happens.  Maybe the Mirage will be a DMC Delorean.

Edited by BrandonBranderson

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