Tenginima

Ofc Frosi of all people lowkey supports this decision, just so that he can go up against people he can actually fight. Matches are hilariously boring now, it's so bad I just have my brain turned off half of the time and the other half when you actually fight decent players im ethier to high or bored to give a shit anymore. And fyi why are LO even listening to your balancing suggestions, even all the apes left in this game with half a brain realises that the shit you spout is some serious asscrack shit. It's people like you that make these insane counterintuitive nerfs and balance changes that only bog down the meta into the most boring shit i've seen in for ever.

Todesklinge might aswell be in charge of balancing at this point, legit would make this game more interesting

Le fucking mao

Thing is with LO's weapon balancing is that they think making guns clunky and or useless in their non intended roles = balance. i'll give a few examples. Mostly based on AR's. All AR's except the misery atm have no ability to jumpshot whatsoever, yet the strong people in the game can still outperform and do pretty much just as well as they did before the nerf, only difference is that now they're just more clunky and unfun to use. APB is a game about mobility, LO should capitalize on that. Like take the FAR and NTEC, both guns still dominate, if you're like me you're still killing OCA's and shit 9/10 times as long as you got a decent position, we still get similar scores and still play relatively the same, only difference is that we use our secondaries a bit more in those situations where we would've jumped with an AR instead. Basically, nerf to jumpshoting was to ensure that you wouldn't win in CQC battles, which was a flawed argument to begin with, as jumping made you an easy tracable target, and if you lose at that range where said tactic is even somewhat effective with a cqc gun then you're the one that is garbage. However, with this nerf now being here for quite a while, the result is basically the same as before, it's just that instead of winning those obscure 1 out of 50 engagement where you jump, you either lose it or win it with your secondary, basically a 50/50. My point? The nerf didn't really change anything fundamentally, as the people who lose CQC against non CQC based weaponry still lose, whether you can jumpshot or not, so the nerf just made the guns more clunky. Lmao even the SHAW with HS3 can jumpshot, and that's a fucking machinegun, same with the NSSW. OBIR nerf just made the gun clunky and made the OBEYA into the de-facto rifle, reverse QSing was strong, but def not op as it was only viable with the FBW and really was only strong if you had a corner.... and corners make every gun good. The result of that nerf just made the OBIR clunky, and somewhat unusable CQC but not in a fun or intuitive way. snubnose nerf, where they nerf the worst secondary in the game or "change it" because it was abused with literally 1 weapon in the game that had a chance of success of like 1% lmao because of the wonky hitreg. So instead of you know, nerfing the JG with literally 1 damage, which would ruin the combo they change the snub *clap clap clap*. removing rayscaling without realising that some guns where only good because of it, basically having no hindsight whatsoever for those guns, ahem showstopper ahem, so now the nfas, shredder and showstopper, both regular and legendary is completely fucking useless, but with rayscaling was super OP (except for the shredder. so instead of being like "guys maybe we should give the nfas soime love after the removal of rayscaling" they just go "fuck it!" and takes it away with nothing else, making the gun just awful. ffs they should give it a faster firrate or atleast a bit more range, like 3m or 5. Need I continue? This is the nr1 with LO, they have a good heart but listen to the wrong inferior players and do not understand subtlety. "OCA is op" ok well just nerf 1 thing maybe firerate "NO we're nerfing 3+ things!" oh ok... what about the misery? "GIVE IT 4 BUFFS AND CALL IT A DAY" so it's now a 5 shot laser beam that does 240 damage with barely any recoil? "YES" oh ok... hey the fang is kinda op what about that? "REMOVE ITS RANGE, MAKE IT A 9STK AND MAKE IT BLOOM LIKE CRAZY"..... why not just, do one of those? instead of changing 1 stat, and in a small margin, they do these sweeping changes, these massive changes that just makes guns extremely good or just kinda worthless, misery was good before it's latest buff, it had very high recoil but very and I mean VERY strong TTK potential for long range, it was high risk high reward and high skill, but now, with the recoil buff, it's just a fucking laser beam, and instead of realising that people didn't use it cause it's an obscure armas gun and not very easily excess able by most players (ticket grinding even at 255 is very long for a perm weapon, especially one with such a high skill ceiling) and now it's just kinda op, and still no one uses it.

LO's heart is in the right place, but they fundamentally do not understand APB nor it's balancing and gunplay. They also seem to think Balance = fun, which really isn't the case, especially since APB is such an RNG based game to begin with. Which is a bit funny considering APB has one of the lowest and highest skill ceilings of any game i've played, as the difference between a 3k hour player and a 100 hour player is massive, but 2 3k hour players against eachother and it becomes clear how how much RNG places the win in ethier person's perspective. Here's a good example, the removal of jumpshooting from all but 1 AR that is actually viable, namely the misery. What did this really accomplish? Do we see les AR's or are they less effective? Not really, sure they're a bit worse in cqc, however even with jumpshooting you would do better in 8/10 situations with just using your secondary, there's a reason why the 45 and fbw was so favored with the ntec / far. People said jumpshooting was to strong cqc, but this logic is so flawed for the simple reason that if you jump, your trajectory is completely predictable, you're putting yourself in a situation where you are a far easier target, then if you were to just dodge with a secondary. And for anyone that had a cqc gun and lost to someone with a 100% predictable and easily trackable jump, should just stop playing the game, especially since you could jumpshot during the PMG's prime days, and tbf, if you lost with any meta CQC gun against a jumping ntec or far, you shouldn't even be allowed to complain about said balance in the first place. People used to make the claim that it made them too strong in cqc, yet I just don't see it, personally it was never an issue for me to beat, and it was very predictable when people would do it and that leaves us at fun vs balance. Is there an argument to be made that it was a bit unbalanced as AR's wasn't intended to be used that way? Sure, atleast in the sense that it wasn't intentional, however the point still stands that in no circumstance, if you are skilled, should you get beaten over and over by jumping AR's, especially when you have a CQC based gun. And to that argument, there are many guns that are used in ways they aren't supposed to, yet they are still not OP. The SHAW can jumpshot better then an ntec, yet I don't hear people cry about it when you jump around corners despite the fact that it's technically not intended to be that way. So what happened when every AR lost their ability to jump? They are so much more boring to use, and tbh not even that much worse, they're just streamlined in their roles more, but gameplay wise they are just simply more boring. APB is a game about mobility, that's why so many stationary guns are usually pretty bad in comparison with mobile ones, and since the game is about mobility, we should treat it as such. Also I find it ironic that everyone bitched about the NTEC, especially with its jumping, but now since every AR other then the misery has gotten that treatment we're basically in a situation where the ntec is yet again, king over all AR's, as now none can jumpshot except one, and even before that was the case the ntec was still king. Hell even the vobra got a jumpshot nerf, the cobra... one of the worst guns in the game, a fun gun sure, but really? its ability to jump was op? ok then... But this is sadly what happens when idiots get to vote on how the game should be balanced, This is why the game should be balanced around the top players, not the other way around, as with most of our suggestions, it keeps balance and fun in mind. Also if you're really that alien against jumpshooting, just go thru with one of the suggestions I heard once, make so that in order to jump with AR's, Rifles etc while adsing, must use HS3 otherwise they won't get a jump modifier while adsing. I would be fine with this as HS3 is the mainstray anyway.

I am the cringelord

Rayscaling was incredibly broken however, as yes while it made shotguns somewhat more reliable, it made them way too forgiving, as any half-assed Removed inappropriate language ~@mayii scrub could hit 30% of their pellets on you and do close to 50% and more health damage, meaning that it made aiming very trivial. Also it made the Thunder and NFAS with IR3 hilariously broken. It also was more of a band-aid solution to a deep serrated wound that is bleeding bad, hitreg should be a more important area of change and after that we can start looking at actually changing shotguns. Also spelled Removed inappropriate language ~@mayii the way I did cause the fuking word censorship is stupid

Because that's impossible to achieve more or less, asymmetric game design is a lot harder than symmetrical game design. If you have mods that are supposed to have up and down sides, no matter how you twist and turn it, there will always be a "better" alternative. This is why CA3 is the strongest compared to other green mods, cause it fits in APB's game mechanics way better than anything else currently. And to be fair, they should just make CA3 the default green mod at this point, basically giving the CA3 stat modifiers as the default values. I have heard people say that if you do this then things like flack jacket will be OP cause you get the reduced explosion damage modifier + the health regen of CA3, tho this is not how it would work in practice, as all they would have to do is make it so that flack jacket adds the same health modifying values as the current no green mod setup, aka default health regen. So it would work exactly the same as it does now as if you made the change. Also APB should be balanced around CA3, not the other way around, as the game becomes way too sluggish without it. Also they should just remove Kevlar at this point, I don't see how they could buff it without making it either OP or just even more niche. Currently it's just an annoyance, it handicaps its user, and annoys enemy players, as you aren't really harder to kill, just slightly slower, which means that at MOST you save yourself 1 death from player 1, but you're now 85 and is gonna get killed anyway. So at most, kev3 gives the user like, 1 "free" kill in very very specific situations lol.

Sure its a good idea, tho Curse currently is more consistent then the PMG and OCA, altough its ttk is slighlty to high to be quite the machine that the PMG is (atleast in missions) However Curse is hilariously looked down upon, it is by far one of the strongest SMG's in the game for consistent damage over time, and one of the few guns in the game where you can put CJ3 on it without ruining it, and actually benefiting from it.

Ah thought it was 10 stk my bad, wouldn't they still be vastly underpowered against OCA's but specifically PMG's and Manics tho? Even with such a buff? I mean I kinda of agree, but due to the current meta, even with that change they would still probably be very bad against other SMG's, also why isn't ODIN as standalone weapon? I still wanna buy it lol

Eh maybe, i'd still wanna try tho, dont you think a .75 ttk would be to high?

Aight as the title says, I was thinking a lot about the Norsemen and what could be done with them, and one of the ideas that came to mind, which i'm not sure if it would break the guns or not, is still something I would like to share. So I will break it up in 3 buff suggestions, each heavier then the other one, to see what would fit. First change is simple, a damage buff to make it a 9 STK gun instead of a 10 STK. Personally I don't think this fixes the issue with the Norsemen but I do believe a damage buff would do wonders with them. Second and this is the more significant one, how about we make the inherent weapon mods of all the Norsemen (the runes I can't recall their name) in the weapon stats themselves, rather then being mods. So for instance, the ODIN would have all the different Norsemen mods, but it would be part of the gun itself while also being a 3 slot weapon. Yes that means that you can put CJ3 on the accuracy buff, Magpull on the Mag reload buff and so on. Third buff change, 1 less STK + the previous change, meaning a 9stk 3slot Norsemen series. I would like to see this tried, it would def keep the Norsemen's identity and unique shtick but also (hopefully) make them somewhat competitive. Personally I don't think this would make them OP, as even with let's say the accuracy buff mod and CJ3, CJ3 would still have its effect, just a bit mitigated and so on, cause currently the problem with the norsemen is that it takes too long for them to get going, and they are by far the worst primary in the game, a fun gun, but a terrible gun.

That works too. But as usual, the community whining about shit they don't know anything about gets the attention. It's funny tho since the RFP wasn't *that* good, even when the Fang was busted. Sure it was better then the RSA and 44 at their respective jobs whilst also being good at medium and decent at close. But that was the thing, it would still get melted on by 45's and FBW's close and close - Midrange IMO.

It's funny cause I noticed this aswell, the RFP is absolute trash tier atm in the game, the Fang takes the cake as the worst secondary in the game by far, i'd even take a R2 or snub over this crappy gun. Case and point of not understanding how a nerf is supposed to be made, I told people that "nerf the fang, leave the stock RFP and Talon alone" and they did the opposite... turning this somewhat ok secondary (stock rfp and talon) into the worst secondary by far. Should've nerfed the fang, and make it into an actual long range secondary, 3 burst of slow burst fire but very very accurate and like 45m effective range or so.

As the title says, when will this be released so I can get one, don't like the TM's sound, and Entete is just shit, and stock C2 isn't super exciting.

PMG / NTEC / FAR / AMG and FBW, Silenced if you want it to be as easy as you can get it

And just as I said would happen, did happen, nerf the NTEC, combine it with some other nerfs (OCA specifically) and we would end up exactly where we are right now, strange that innit? Almost as if I know what i'm talking about, shocker, I know. Also this didn't fix the issue with APB's meta, only enhanced it, and just as I said in my numerous NTEC nerf posts, we essentially just moved the goal post, instead of putting the ball in the net.

Why is that even such a trigger for you tho, some people just wanna aim, and stretching playing at min helps with that, is that tryharding?

Cause i'm the one who's been smoking clearly, what a fucking fail, though anyway, my point about the scout is the same

Dude, have you been smoking? The TTK of the ntec is 0.7 sec. it shots every 0.11 sec roughly. Fucking hell if you shot once every 1.628 sec with CJ3 your ttk would be insanely high. So no they don't literally heal before you get a second shot of. Proof, CA3 has a health delay of 1.6 sec, that means after 1.6 you need an additional 2 sec to heal 125hp so 3.6 sec in total to heal 125hp, which means you need around 3.8ish secs before the scout needs to shot a 3rd time since the scout does 550, the scout has a ttk of 1.750 sec. So no, the OP is right, the scout has serious hitreg issues, just like every gun in the game, but you notice it more with the scout cause each bullet is a lot more valuable to its performance then let's say an NTEC.

It was, as expected over nerfed, especially if you consider how LO has gone about buffing weapons in the past, remember the Shredder with rayscaling before they tuned that gun down somewhat? And as I preached before this misshap went off into production, it won't fix the (and didn't fix) the core issue with APB's gun and gameplay balance, and just as I said would happen, Obeyas, OBIR's and Carbines took its place. Now you could say STAR and FAR aswell, though those 2 weapons aren't as high in priority in high tier gameplay. However it does make sense from a business perspective, LO needs to make money, pleasing the masses, even though they are factually wrong, is a "smart" move on their end, no matter what we say about it. And as a sidenote, although the shotgun changes are a good change, it also made the meta more stale, since as I preached as well, the PMG now finally took the crown as the De Facto CQC weapon.

-It does give you a significant advantage, as it brings out the strongest aspect of gunplay in this game, corners. OBIR is a de-factor Corner popping weapon, it is by design (either intentionally or not) 1 of the strongest weapons in the game when you have a solid corner, and even without a corner, your burst potential will damage an ntec user so hard, that even if he wins, he will still be 85. - The problem with those top players is that just like in missions, they go for what is easiest, like the PMG in abington, rather then actually using what's best. they'd get more or less the same results with a FAR, the difference? FAR is a much less accessible weapon due to it being a event, armas and joker store weapon. It should be a regular stock gun, just like the NTEC. Secondly the Misery with CJ3 is stronger then the NTEC, as with the massive buffs it received, you can literally 4 shot people without pausing, and make them 85, then wait around 0.05 secs and shot again, and they are dead. It isn't used as often, because it is much harder to use. And what you just mentioned proved my point, the ntec is simply a tool for its environment, add more cover, cars and better attack spots around the action districts and the NTEC would not be as dominant. -The ntec doesn't excel at long range, it simply can do the job decently well, if it excelled then any scrub would be able to dominate competent long range weapon users. it is a made up fallacy that the NTEC is this "be all end all weapon" for everything and anything. Bringing down the TTK isn't true at all, you can bring down the effective TTK, not the literal TTK. By reducing RNG. The issue that plagues this game the most is its inconsistency, I would rather have longer TTK's, but TTK's that are much more reliable. Secondly, if you are that tagged so often, you need to take more cover and not be as aggressive, if I am able to pull Killstreak 2's out of my patootie in abington with almost any gun extremely often, then it is much more up to the driver, not the car. Secondly, it's a fallacy that you need to buff a lot of guns, as a lot of guns already beat the NTEC in their niches. Even if you disgard their niches, they'll only lose to an NTEC in the NTEC's territory (jack of all trades), and those guns that need buffs against the NTEC specifically, are far and few inbetween and the buffs they need are tiny, and frankly, they shouldn't even be buffed to specifically fight the NTEC, they could just be slighlty buffed outside their niches, which sure, would make them more like "every other gun", however the magic in numbers is that, tiny differences in said numbers can make massive differences. The SWARM is more or less the strongest midrange LMG WHEN you have a corner and defensive opportunities. But it can still do "fine" outside of it's niche. And frankly, this whole "the ntec kills everything" has been blown out of proportions, as true, no gun in the game is as good at being a jack of all trades, but just like that, the NTEC will NEVER win against a competent player that uses a proper "counter", SWARM behind cover, OBIR with QS-ing and popping, NSSW at 30m+ OCA, PMG, CSG, JG etc at 10 -15 M. The ntec shines at it nice 15 - 30 M niche, outside of that it will, mathematically lose towards other more suited weapons. That those weapons are to niche is a fallacy, as they are perfectly able to fight other weapons outside of their intended roles. FC represents the pinnacle of individual skill, it has a direct correlation towards personal performance in missions, not team-based performance mind you, but personal, and all bets are far from off, if they were, there would not be a meta at all, and everyone would just jerk off and use all kinds of weapons over and over. This is frankly my last post on this subject, work started 1 month ago hence why I replied to late, as I could not be asked to do it. I will only respond to this as this one last time, because frankly, now money is on my mind, and the balance of this crap game isn't super important anymore.

My argument just as my logic is flawless in this instance. It is the most balanced weapon, as both those maps prove that, missions prove this, everything points to this. I've stated all the reasons plenty of times before but let me ask you this then, why is it so. that in the top hierachy of players, in terms of skill. They all (except me) think that the OBIR is stronger then the NTEC? It's pretty simple really, the OBIR is stronger then the NTEC, once you get good with it. Because of reverse QSing, and because of it's massive burst damage. I disagree that it is OP, but what you will see in the case of APB, is that everyone will flood the NTEC bandwagon and hate on it, while those that are enlightened, are those that truly understand what beats it. You can look at it like this, NTEC = Easy, can do most things. OBIR = Harder (not hard, but harder then the NTEC), can do most things, even slighlty better then the NTEC, if you are good enough. Besides, what's your proof then? you say that my way of looking at it makes it so that everything else is broken while the ntec is the epitome of balance. What do you say then? Give me 1 reason, too why the NTEC is actually OP, and why you think so. I can assure you, the reason why it seems OP to you is a lack of skill. But, I still want to hear it. I can't belive you'd be so sad enough to actually take one of my quotes, edit it, and then post it to make me look like an idiot, that is the proof that you lost the argument. It has nothing to do with reason, it has to do with what is factually correct, and what's lazy. Nerfing the NTEC is the lazy way to do it.