tennogrineer

things we need to consider: low customization. not many (if any) have these customization's maxed: CHARACTER THEME VEHICLE SYMBOL no modifications on: VEHICLES CHARACTERS no higher-tier explosives (outside EOL and Volcano) CONCUSSIONS OSMAWS OPGL low statistics of player data: kills achievements roles rank + still suffers from fps drops in many common areas even so, lot of us remember a time where all of this WAS working with 50/50 so it's still a good sign.

improved rifling changes (on marksman weapons). for the most part, semi auto weapons stay the same. obir/ffa and oscar - OK way since those are burst weapons cr762 - fine, pretty much the same firerate you would do for optimal range ttk joker carbine and vbr temptress/huntress - okay however, since they still are hit...it makes the issr (dogear especially) uncontested. that weapon will certainly be way too strong (more than it already is)

while i like this downside for most weapons that certainly need the downside (ntec being one), it does also affect the two guns that have a strong reason to use it: OBIR (already has a high ttk), Obeya CR762 (though the CR762 is more flexible in red-mod choice). to really test this, we need mods in OTW. i am open for this change though, on paper its a great downside for almost everything that previously benefited way too much.

its probably not a good idea to have the issr go meta, as the p2w accusations will come back. least on na, it pretty much already is meta. one of the best go-to weapons golds use because less embarrassing than using the hvr ("at least its not an hvr") less embarrassing than using the ntec ("at least its not an ntec") fast rof, fast recovery, tight accuracy, low ttk (0.9s) more versatile than the obir (most people using the obir suck at reverse switching and know it has a longer ttk pf 1.2s) better than the obeya cr762 (cr762's bloom kills its optimal min-ttk of 0.84s at range) better than the star lcr (faster rof and ttk) better sniper than the dmr-sd (issr has faster rof, reload, and shorter ttk than 1.6s) better av than the dmr-av (issr has faster rof, reload, and ammo to really take cars out more efficiently) as mobile as the scout (but doesnt have that awkward delay between shots) reliable at cqc easy to say otherwise because mostly just golds have it (and when's the last time most of them actually wanted to see their crutch go away) easy to say otherwise because "it's on the joker store" i honestly would not be surprised.

the idea is either keeping the consistency, but lowering the damage so it isn't as effective at range (there is still damage drop-off afaik). or not apply the consistency at all, so isn't as effective at range. both would accomplish the same thing.

@Tobii@Kewlin - as mentioned in the baylan a thread and seen during frosi's stream this morning, it seems the best option to address that is by either not having the pellet update affect the csg (live line being ideal, lowering consistency like suggested) or just lowering the csg damage by 100 (or some other sweet spot, making the curve closer to current live while retaining the pellet benefit). this way it can retain its place of being more of a ranged shotgun (more likely to have to 3 shot) but not dominate very close quarters (where other weapons should shine, like the jg specifically).

yeah mostly the server. many remember the days when servers were so smooth that using a shotgun was just the best thing in the world. now these changes kind of just make them more consistent even if the servers are running terribly (wont solve the hitreg issue completely, but at least something might count more often)

well right now all we have is the notes and those very uninformative weapon stat bars in game. most of us would like to see those bars replaced by actual numerical values. way better than telling so-and-so stand somewhere and test time-to-kill, shots-to-kill, then looking at video to determine rate-of-fire, pulling out a calculator to see hard damage, etc.

im hoping this means we'll see the right spot in otw (and not be surprised in live)

i dont think you are getting the issue here. yes, i agree that quickswitching isnt 100% viable and there are more optimal solutions based on skill level. however, having that option on the hvr and having the ability to effectively use it in a combat range it shouldnt, limits the weapon diversity in the game. i have a feeling your experiences are based on fight club..when you have to think about mission districts.

what benefit does keeping a close-quarter quickswitch on a weapon designed for range provide? the changes pretty much address that "small" issue (no matter how bad players who use it are) but still keeps the long range in tact. its a really good change, this way those players clearly understand that if you are playing in close quarter with a long range weapon, switch your weapon or sumSmash. just because you dont die to it, doesnt mean that the gimmick is okay.

There are other snipers... ISSR would probably take over as meta. i wanted to see what all the fuss was about with the issr-b dogear (assuming issr-a is the same for the most part?).. issr-b definitely needs to be toned down in damage (especially hard damage) with all these other changes. probably too much for this balance pass, but has to be considered quickly as the meta will surely be dominated by this easy mode weapon. have to look at: removing the reverse quick-switch with the obir/ffa adjusting the oca - make it take an extra shot to kill or put the ttk back to where it was (revert firerate change). keeps it as the smg benchmark but keeps the rest of the smgs strong as well. adjust the ttk of the yukon - this gun is pretty much the nfa9 with way better accuracy. it shouldnt have a 0.45s ttk (faster than any secondary and primary) ntec - [redacted because it triggers so many people], but take a look at the star and far (both really well done) low-yields - slightly lower health damage, significantly lower hard damage

said stuff about overall shotguns in the other thread (copying most over): overall shotguns are too forgiving (especially with the csg and autoshotguns). the new pellet system shouldnt be applied to everything auto shotguns (nfas, orge, etc.) - doesnt need to be changed (no new pellet system - it's an auto shotgun). orge is stupidly strong at range now. strife - needs to be way less forgiving (less pellets hit should do less damage, right now you can barely hit someone at it does a lot more than you think it would). however, the fire rate makes using the gun pointless now with the other shotgun changes. csg - doesnt need to be changed at all (there was nothing wrong with the csg). if the change is kept, the damage needs to be lowered, like 100 less and then it would make sense that csg has to 3 shot close maintaining excellency at a further range jg - same as csg*. it was in a good spot but benefits with the new system to keep it a true solid choice over the csg at very close ranges. will guarantee more 2 shots close but fails hard at range...which makes the csg the obvious winner. shredder - okay. feels good showstopper (secondary) - 3 shot kill, maybe like a 0.8- 1s ttk? feels real good for the most part, on the fence to make it a 4 shot instead. majority of shotgun issues are because of the server anyway. most of this seems consistent to what @Frosi was testing/seeing on stream (alongside other things with @Tobii and @LUST) worth checking out his VOD too. good on them he posted about it as well:

no, it looks nice now from what i see (watching @Frosi test with @Tobii and @LUST) 4 fbw + hvr = kill 3 fbw + hvr = 90 ish 2 fbw + hvr = 85 ish 1 fbw + hvr = 80 ish moving while hvr, 340ish damage = 3 shot kill close. the range 850 damage is the same..but if anything, keep all the above but make the damage 750 max and it would be pretty perfect and still viable.

shotguns are too forgiving. the new pellet system shouldnt be applied to everything auto shotguns (nfas, orge, etc.) - doesnt need to be changed (no new pellet system - it's an auto shotgun) strife - needs to be way less forgiving (less pellets hit should do less damage, right now you can barely hit someone at it does a lot more than you think it would) csg - doesnt need to be changed at all (there was nothing wrong with the csg) jg - same as csg*. it was in a good spot but can benefit SLIGHTLY with the new system to keep it a true solid choice over the csg shredder - okay. majority of shotgun issues are because of the server anyway. edit: jg - feels good if you used it before, will guarantee more 2 shots close but fails hard at range...which makes the csg the obvious winner. sort of mixed on it, maybe just csg damage can be like 100 less and then it would make sense that csg has to 3 shot close while excelling at a further range.

The message, as Matt has said, is outdated. ah, figured. knew that the first two were from the other districts, didnt know the third was off (since it sounded close to what was proposed). thanks bud.

Whoa - you sound like you have heaps of experience from a better forum than this... yeah man, i travelled a many jungle gyms and slid down many sliderinos. i guess i totally didnt say anything of the sort. TTours

i know that, last i played otw (4-6 hours ago?) all weapons felt the same outside of shotgun damage. obviously this was misleading: because why in the heck would they change the STAR, FAR, or CR762... to trigger @LUST? lol ...

well, did they even patch them yet?

well yeah, when you start throwing in all the variables, of course things tend to shine better than others. im not saying the oca is perfect where it is, it's just the others arent as bad as people make it out to be when the gameplay around them is essentially the game, the true test comes when they are outside their optimal comfort zones..which ends up just relating to missions and map design. no matter where it goes, someone will excel with it. h9 is probably the hardest smg in that regard.

last two changes to the OCA: Patch 1.19.3 (812) - 14 Oct 2015 Patch 1.19.4 (886) - 17 May 2016 this made the ttk from the previous 0.7s (0.65 CJ3) to 0.64s (0.6s CJ3) this kept it back in line against the other smgs' (stock) ttk. ACES: 0.63s ttk ACES Rifle: 0.71s PMG: 0.7s (0.65 CJ3) h9 curse: 0.77s (0.71s CJ3) - recoil being changed soon cap 40: 0.7s (0.65 CJ3) - pretty much old oca the choice now really comes down to recoil, bloom, and range preference since they all hover around the same ttk and have its own pros and cons. oca is still doing its job as the smg benchmark, its not like the others are abandoned and useless (certainly see plenty of pmgs on NA), its just way less "easily" accessible in comparison.

was the max 2147483648 or 9999999999? you get a lot of money just by playing, even without premium its more than $100k a week, just playing 2 hours of missions each day (of course winning and playing well). there's also people with over 200k joker tickets...

pretty sure this is a typo or a lack of knowledge that weapon damage is actually by 100s, instead of 10s. but they will fix it today apparently. in any case, the new shotgun secondary should be at least 6 shot kill if fixed (166.6 damage per shot). otherwise it could replace shotguns as a primary. or just make it 100% anti-vehicle, 6 shots steel-plated espacio/fresno/vegas/pioneer.

now have to wait 4 more for them to accept you as a friend

fight club, low pop, no customization, very little happening on screen, and on the corner of waterfront where nothing normally happens as is. while the extra frames are nice, it is probably, still, all cpu strain. went to the empty districts on otw. 145fps is a myth right out of double-b.