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lauo

OTW changes regarding burst weapons and CJ

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CHANGES:
CJ on burst fire weapons
New changes to CJ TestA making the burst intervals quicker.
+7% with CJ3.
also increased effective range by +5m on all burst guns. (not connected with CJ)
without affecting bloom or accuracy

These changes are major, completely stirring up the meta in a worse way. instead of making the meta divorce it forces all teams to use shotgun, oscar and obir.
these would be the only guns used if the newly added changes to OTW goes live.

Oscars flexibility due to low recoil and bloom would be close to mid-rangers dream weapon. being able to mint ttk on 35m comfortably.
with a 7% increase of fire rate on a already low TTK. (0.82sec default making it a 0.76sec)
 


Close up the shotguns absolutely dominates with no weapons being able to contest.
as it is in the current state of the game.


Obir would be close to long-range this is due to its flexibility, being able to quick switch (swapping to secondary weapons after one or two burst or shots) would make it a close(ish) weapon. Ofc still not able to contest with shotgun at current state.
and then tree bursting on 75m (able to ttk) with the ability to move between out of cover and in cover would leave all other guns with no reason to use.  
(Obirs TTK originally is 1.2sec now making it a 1.1) 

 


It's hard to balance a game based on casuals or on paper. the balancing of guns should be based on the “hard core” players of the game.
making changes for casuals and nonexpriensed player reduces the playability of a higher tier. In the current state of the game the skill gap has decreased so drastically.
by just using a shotgun a completely new player wouldn't a too  hard of a time getting gold.

(its important that you add a reply with your opinion on the matter, since this is the best way to make a difference) 


I am going to look into the Ntec changes, but as of right now i don’t have the time.
Im only one person add somthing if I missed it. ty  Edited by grabb
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Yea, cya in a couple months I'm grinding OSRS from now on...

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Most of these balance changes on live & otw has only made it worse than it already was, i understand some may be experimental & what not, but i'm not so sure LO understands that it's done no good.. :S


A few ideas and implementations is ok, others bad.
I've played numerous arranged matches myself over the many years now that I've played apb, and have a very good understanding of the game balance.


As a competitive player myself, some these weapon balance changes that have been made, take shotgun changes as an example. Has made it near damn impossible even as a top player to face even a fucking average player using shotgun. It requires literally 0 aim to 2 shot someone, you don't even have to hit the center of your target as you can 2 shot someone aiming at the edge of a players model xD????
I personally don't even find the shotgun changes necessary, any good player using shotgun was already very scary to face, and as a matter of fact, shotguns (csg, jg) were already overpowered before the changes.
Shotgun changes are so ridiculous any1 using 1cm/360 & is a first time apb player can wipe out a team 1v4 of the best players in the game lmfao.
The not so powerful shotguns before the changes, shredder, nfas of course should have been buffed in one way or another, i'm talking primarily about CSG & JG.
Even the new showstopper is ridiculous, shoots way too fast considering it's ability to 3 shot.
If LO's way to make shotguns more consistent is increasing the damage of the first pellets hit, that's fine.
But atleast nerf them in another way (fire rate)

Shotguns should not be the favored gun's for open fights against other CQC weapons, say Sub Machineguns (OCA, PMG) as it is right now because it's so fucking easy to use. 
They should be the strongest guns CQC anywhere with cover, corners, cars, you name it. Open fights using a shotgun you should get destroyed.
As it is a third person game, using shotguns is very easy, just preaim the target, tap A or D, run out of your cover/corner and shoot, go back to cover and repeat. It's really not all that hard ^^
However there should still be outplay potential vs shotguns, right now there's none other than spamming nades xD
You want to be able to dodge a shotgun shot by predicting it with a sidestep knowing that they cant just immediately after 1 shot pop out of the corner and shoot you again so that you can get close to them, meaning if they miss, they're doomed because by then you're already up his patootie firing an entire mag into him/her. 😉
Being as it is right now even more than before, it doesn't matter if you shoot the ground & not the target, you win anyway because shotguns xD


With the changes to Oscar & Obir because of Cooling Jacket, I don't see why you wouldn't ever just 1st pick those guns in the very start of a mission as it make's them way too versatile and incredibly deadly.
Obir already is by far the most favored long range weapon in arranged matches after HVR if that isn't banned in whatever rules we play with. It is very strong on range, and it's ability to ReverseQS in close ranges and cornerpop/crouchpop/jumpshoot makes it a ridiculous gun.
Oscar is an easy gun to use if you have somewhat decent aim, easy to get away with, very good on corners & for open & CQC fights, literally the goto weapon if you want to be able to do everything yourself outside of longer ranges.
Oscar and Obir is already overpowered, unless LO plans to nerf them in some other way with the change to Cooling Jacket on OTW which has to be somewhat major, it may aswell be reverted.


The OCA change to it's fire rate is good, make's for more reason to the use of Cooling Jacket & weapons not ment for CQC stand's more of a chance against it now, also means you need good aim to be a good OCA player because you have to hit most of your shots. +1 on this LO


NTEC changes seem good to nerf it's jump & lean meme, tho I don't find the 28/112 ammo limit necessary, make it 30/120 and it may be good to go with the jumpshot nerf. ^^
If anything the Improved Rifling change on live servers is bullshoot, it ruins way too many guns.
Instead of having it affect fire rate, just make it affect bloom the same way it were before wtf.
I think reducing the TTK on NTEC (reducing fire rate) or increasing the recoil to make it harder to control would be a better option in this case.
I don't mind a change to mods, I think the change to IR is dumb as hell, change to CJ is good, but guns themselves should be nerfed & buffed, not the mods.
Seems like lazy work trynna find an easy way to change the meta/fix multiple guns at the same time rather than changing them one at a time.


So far everything only seems to be going downhill, LO needs to listen to the better players in this game instead of all the noobs who think they're remotely decent at the game when in all reality they're garbage. I know of many other top players in the game that wants to have a say in this balancing thing, and it's needed because the lack of experience in shooters & competitive play from LO is showing ^_^
 

Edited by Cozymedi
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57 minutes ago, Cozymedi said:

Most of these balance changes on live & otw has only made it worse than it already was, i understand some may be experimental & what not, but i'm not so sure LO understands that it's done no good.. :S


A few ideas and implementations are good, others bad.
I've played numerous arranged matches myself over the many years now that I've played apb, and have a very good understanding of the game balance.


As a competitive player myself, some these weapon balance changes that have been made, take shotgun changes as an example. Has made it near damn impossible even as a top player to face even a fucking average player using shotgun. It requires literally 0 aim to 2 shot someone, you don't even have to hit the center of your target as you can 2 shot someone aiming at the edge of a players model xD????
I personally don't even find the shotgun changes necessary, any good player using shotgun was already very scary to face, and as a matter of fact, shotguns (csg, jg) were already overpowered before the changes.
Shotgun changes are so ridiculous any1 using 1cm/360 & is a first time apb player can wipe out a team 1v4 of the best players in the game lmfao.
The not so powerful shotguns before the changes, shredder, nfas of course should have been buffed in one way or another, i'm talking primarily about CSG & JG.
Even the new showstopper is ridiculous, shoots way too fast considering it's ability to 3 shot.
If LO's way to make shotguns more consistent is increasing the damage of the first pellets hit, that's fine.
But atleast nerf them in another way (fire rate)

Shotguns should not be the favored gun's for open fights against other CQC weapons, say Sub Machineguns (OCA, PMG) as it is right now because it's so fucking easy to use. 
They should be the strongest guns CQC anywhere with cover, corners, cars, you name it. Open fights using a shotgun you should get destroyed.
As it is a third person game, using shotguns is very easy, just preaim the target, tap A or D, run out of your cover/corner and shoot, go back to cover and repeat. It's really not all that hard ^^
However there should still be outplay potential vs shotguns, right now there's none other than spamming nades xD
You want to be able to dodge a shotgun shot by predicting it with a sidestep knowing that they cant just immediately after 1 shot pop out of the corner and shoot you again so that you can get close to them, meaning if they miss, they're doomed because by then you're already up his patootie firing an entire mag into him/her. 😉
Being as it is right now even more than before, it doesn't matter if you shoot the ground & not the target, you win anyway because shotguns xD


With the changes to Oscar & Obir because of Cooling Jacket, I don't see why you wouldn't ever just 1st pick those guns in the very start of a mission as it make's them way too versatile and incredibly deadly.
Obir already is by far the most favored long range weapon in arranged matches after HVR if that isn't banned in whatever rules we play with. It is very strong on range, and it's ability to ReverseQS in close ranges and cornerpop/crouchpop/jumpshoot makes it a ridiculous gun.
Oscar is an easy gun to use if you have somewhat decent aim, easy to get away with, very good on corners & for open & CQC fights, literally the goto weapon if you want to be able to do everything yourself outside of longer ranges.
Oscar and Obir is already overpowered, unless LO plans to nerf them in some other way with the change to Cooling Jacket on OTW which has to be somewhat major, it may aswell be reverted.


The OCA change to it's fire rate is good, make's for more reason to the use of Cooling Jacket & weapons not ment for CQC stand's more of a chance against it now, also means you need good aim to be a good OCA player because you have to hit most of your shots. +1 on this LO


NTEC changes seem good to nerf it's jump & lean meme, tho I don't find the 28/112 ammo limit necessary, make it 30/120 and it may be good to go with the jumpshot nerf. ^^
If anything the Improved Rifling change on live servers is bullshoot, it ruins way too many guns.
Instead of having it affect fire rate, just make it affect bloom the same way it were before wtf.
I think reducing the TTK on NTEC (reducing fire rate) or increasing the recoil to make it harder to control would be a better option in this case.
I don't mind a change to mods, I think the change to IR is dumb as hell, change to CJ is good, but guns themselves should be nerfed & buffed, not the mods.
Seems like lazy work trynna find an easy way to change the meta/fix multiple guns at the same time rather than changing them one at a time.


So far everything only seems to be going downhill, LO needs to listen to the better players in this game instead of all the noobs who think they're remotely decent at the game when in all reality they're garbage. I know of many other top players in the game that wants to have a say in this balancing thing, and it's needed because the lack of experience in shooters & competitive play from LO is showing ^_^
 

Exactly this. ^

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Basically what my bro Cozymedi said.

LO really need to listen to better players in this community.

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They're just flat out breaking the game at this point because they're too stubborn to revert the IR change, no one asked for the IR change or now this change to Cooling Jacket. Gun balance is worse than it ever was before, people keep complaining about it but they rather work on this than actually fixing what is currently broken on the LIVE Servers. In my opinion, all Gun balance should be scrapped as of right now until they re-open SPCT and fill it with actual good players that can give proper feedback. We don't need complete rebalance of how each role handles, no range removal for all assault rifles, no range benefit for all burst rifles, just balance the guns that are completely overperforming instead of messing with things that either affect all guns such as mods or guns in a specific role. 

Overall, gun balance is going nowhere because there doesn't seem to be a general idea behind a lot of these changes. It genuinely feels like things are being changed for the sake of changing something.

I've said this multiple times before but they should honestly just revert the changes of certain things that came with the first balance patch, such as the IR change or the ridiculous Shotgun changes. If they really want to change shotguns they should do it in a way that actually doesn't allow bad aiming to be rewarded as I've stated in another thread.
 

Edited by Frosi
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20 minutes ago, Frosi said:

They're just flat out breaking the game at this point because they're too stubborn to revert the IR change, no one asked for the IR change or now this change to Cooling Jacket. Gun balance is worse than it ever was before, people keep complaining about it but they rather work on this than actually fixing what is currently broken on the LIVE Servers. In my opinion, all Gun balance should be scrapped as of right now until they re-open SPCT and fill it with actual good players that can give proper feedback. We don't need complete rebalance of how each role handles, no range removal for all assault rifles, no range benefit for all burst rifles, just balance the guns that are completely overperforming instead of messing with things that either affect all guns such as mods or guns in a specific role. 

Overall, gun balance is going nowhere because there doesn't seem to be a general idea behind a lot of these changes. It genuinely feels like things are being changed for the sake of changing something.

I've said this multiple times before but they should honestly just revert the changes of certain things that came with the first balance patch, such as the IR change or the ridiculous Shotgun changes. If they really want to change shotguns they should do it in a way that actually doesn't allow bad aiming to be rewarded as I've stated in another thread.
 

This ^

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1 hour ago, Frosi said:

They're just flat out breaking the game at this point because they're too stubborn to revert the IR change, no one asked for the IR change or now this change to Cooling Jacket. Gun balance is worse than it ever was before, people keep complaining about it but they rather work on this than actually fixing what is currently broken on the LIVE Servers. In my opinion, all Gun balance should be scrapped as of right now until they re-open SPCT and fill it with actual good players that can give proper feedback. We don't need complete rebalance of how each role handles, no range removal for all assault rifles, no range benefit for all burst rifles, just balance the guns that are completely overperforming instead of messing with things that either affect all guns such as mods or guns in a specific role. 

Overall, gun balance is going nowhere because there doesn't seem to be a general idea behind a lot of these changes. It genuinely feels like things are being changed for the sake of changing something.

I've said this multiple times before but they should honestly just revert the changes of certain things that came with the first balance patch, such as the IR change or the ridiculous Shotgun changes. If they really want to change shotguns they should do it in a way that actually doesn't allow bad aiming to be rewarded as I've stated in another thread.
 

cant wait for spct to be filled with complete mongs who ruin the game even more.. get frosi and the boys on it pronto x

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insted of fixing the problems with the under used guns LO seem to just make the guns that were good blanced worse by drasticly changing mods. the gun play had no problem before LO bought the game. ofc there were the "under used" guns but I didn't see a single person except kempington komplaining about it. There was some obv broken like yukon. The problem with a under used gun is that it does not perform aswell as other free weapons, fix that insted of complitely reworking mods.  G1 seemd to balance the guns around mods, reworking those mods would not fix a problem you're having with one gun. Im refering to n-tec ofc since it was "too flexible" according to some, so by changing IR it wouldn't be as good close up and on long range. This complitly flopped.
I agree with the posts above aswell.

My personal opinion. Wanted to keep the post neutral and the focus on the changes. 

Edited by grabb

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At the end of the day... It is what it is.. ;S

There are other problems than weapon balancing regarding the balance of the game that i'm sure everyone is aware of...

Low yields, percs, yellow mods, remote detonator & explosives 3, pioneer/espacio, kevlar. All bullshoot stuff that needs to be balanced properly with people that knows what they are doing.

APB surely is a hard game to balance with way too many weapons, there will always be a meta and it will never be completely balanced.
There's always going to be some guns better than others, that's just the reality of it. The goal should be to keep the balance as tight as possible so the gap between as to how good one gun in general is to another is way closer than now, when you have that balance set you can change the meta however you want whenever you want, allowing for future meta changes without breaking anything.

To add in, the +5 meters for non-carbine rifles is unnecessary, the Obeya Rifle (CR762) 5 shots at 80 meters with the new IR3 +15% effective range change, that along with the +3 effective range on IR3 AND the +5 meters add make's it ridiculous. Put that on any1 with decent aim and call it gg.

OTW changes to CSG & JG is an improvement compared to live, still overpowered, CSG 2 shots at 12 meters, reduce that abit. Both may need a reduction to fire rate.
Shredder is still out of this world overpowered, reduce the range.

If LO want's to keep listening to noobs with no idea of how the game plays on a high level like im done lmao.

Edited by Cozymedi
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7 hours ago, Cozymedi said:

Most of these balance changes on live & otw has only made it worse than it already was, i understand some may be experimental & what not, but i'm not so sure LO understands that it's done no good.. :S


A few ideas and implementations is ok, others bad.
I've played numerous arranged matches myself over the many years now that I've played apb, and have a very good understanding of the game balance.


As a competitive player myself, some these weapon balance changes that have been made, take shotgun changes as an example. Has made it near damn impossible even as a top player to face even a fucking average player using shotgun. It requires literally 0 aim to 2 shot someone, you don't even have to hit the center of your target as you can 2 shot someone aiming at the edge of a players model xD????
I personally don't even find the shotgun changes necessary, any good player using shotgun was already very scary to face, and as a matter of fact, shotguns (csg, jg) were already overpowered before the changes.
Shotgun changes are so ridiculous any1 using 1cm/360 & is a first time apb player can wipe out a team 1v4 of the best players in the game lmfao.
The not so powerful shotguns before the changes, shredder, nfas of course should have been buffed in one way or another, i'm talking primarily about CSG & JG.
Even the new showstopper is ridiculous, shoots way too fast considering it's ability to 3 shot.
If LO's way to make shotguns more consistent is increasing the damage of the first pellets hit, that's fine.
But atleast nerf them in another way (fire rate)

Shotguns should not be the favored gun's for open fights against other CQC weapons, say Sub Machineguns (OCA, PMG) as it is right now because it's so fucking easy to use. 
They should be the strongest guns CQC anywhere with cover, corners, cars, you name it. Open fights using a shotgun you should get destroyed.
As it is a third person game, using shotguns is very easy, just preaim the target, tap A or D, run out of your cover/corner and shoot, go back to cover and repeat. It's really not all that hard ^^
However there should still be outplay potential vs shotguns, right now there's none other than spamming nades xD
You want to be able to dodge a shotgun shot by predicting it with a sidestep knowing that they cant just immediately after 1 shot pop out of the corner and shoot you again so that you can get close to them, meaning if they miss, they're doomed because by then you're already up his patootie firing an entire mag into him/her. 😉
Being as it is right now even more than before, it doesn't matter if you shoot the ground & not the target, you win anyway because shotguns xD


With the changes to Oscar & Obir because of Cooling Jacket, I don't see why you wouldn't ever just 1st pick those guns in the very start of a mission as it make's them way too versatile and incredibly deadly.
Obir already is by far the most favored long range weapon in arranged matches after HVR if that isn't banned in whatever rules we play with. It is very strong on range, and it's ability to ReverseQS in close ranges and cornerpop/crouchpop/jumpshoot makes it a ridiculous gun.
Oscar is an easy gun to use if you have somewhat decent aim, easy to get away with, very good on corners & for open & CQC fights, literally the goto weapon if you want to be able to do everything yourself outside of longer ranges.
Oscar and Obir is already overpowered, unless LO plans to nerf them in some other way with the change to Cooling Jacket on OTW which has to be somewhat major, it may aswell be reverted.


The OCA change to it's fire rate is good, make's for more reason to the use of Cooling Jacket & weapons not ment for CQC stand's more of a chance against it now, also means you need good aim to be a good OCA player because you have to hit most of your shots. +1 on this LO


NTEC changes seem good to nerf it's jump & lean meme, tho I don't find the 28/112 ammo limit necessary, make it 30/120 and it may be good to go with the jumpshot nerf. ^^
If anything the Improved Rifling change on live servers is bullshoot, it ruins way too many guns.
Instead of having it affect fire rate, just make it affect bloom the same way it were before wtf.
I think reducing the TTK on NTEC (reducing fire rate) or increasing the recoil to make it harder to control would be a better option in this case.
I don't mind a change to mods, I think the change to IR is dumb as hell, change to CJ is good, but guns themselves should be nerfed & buffed, not the mods.
Seems like lazy work trynna find an easy way to change the meta/fix multiple guns at the same time rather than changing them one at a time.


So far everything only seems to be going downhill, LO needs to listen to the better players in this game instead of all the noobs who think they're remotely decent at the game when in all reality they're garbage. I know of many other top players in the game that wants to have a say in this balancing thing, and it's needed because the lack of experience in shooters & competitive play from LO is showing ^_^
 

+1 Agreed

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