ninjarrrr 261 Posted October 19 ayyy lmao the crusade against stabba players is so obvious, i mean, stun stealing isn't even a demerit. instead LO thinks the priority should be to nerf anything with stamina damage (DMR AV, dog ear etc) and just ignore that stabba is a thing. now we had 2 balance patches and yet, the weapon family that got nothing but nerfs conviently got excluded from any sort of buff, hilarious really. but again im not surprised since i've heard that their "reformed" testing team has someone with 17 bans (never cheated though ofc) and only plays with ntec+45+concs, so stabba never will have a chance of getting buffed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hexerin 1143 Posted October 19 The game's design has always favored the Criminal faction, but it's wild how hard LO is going on LTL lately. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vsb 6174 Posted October 19 i dont think its a crusade, they just dont know how to balance lol its like watching a toddler throw paint at an easel, sure some of it will stick but there's a fuckin mess behind it 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hexerin 1143 Posted October 19 (edited) 2 hours ago, vsb said: i dont think its a crusade, they just dont know how to balance lol its like watching a toddler throw paint at an easel, sure some of it will stick but there's a fuckin mess behind it Nah. Both G1/RG and LO have a very obvious vendetta against LTL. You don't "accidentally" go this hard on changes to something, especially when it's been consistent and going on for several years. Edited October 19 by Hexerin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MStomm 24 Posted October 20 They just ignore the 'proper' LTL guns; but do patch out the lethal guns that have some stun utility. I think they mainly want to keep it a rare achievement to max the role. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LilyRain 680 Posted October 20 16 hours ago, vsb said: they just dont know how to balance lol I am still waiting on official details regarding the #BASELINE that LO will balance around. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sweetLemonade 112 Posted October 20 (edited) 20 hours ago, vsb said: i dont think its a crusade, they just dont know how to balance lol its like watching a toddler throw paint at an easel, sure some of it will stick but there's a fuckin mess behind it Frosi is the current game designer for APB, voice your opinion on discord. (don't get your hopes up, he's the one who pushed the mobile cover nerf and greenlit LRR to the game...) Ever since the arrival of discord, forums have gotten a hard pushback into irrelevancy... 4 hours ago, LilyRain said: I am still waiting on official details regarding the #BASELINE that LO will balance around. I believe they're using the OBIR as a baseline, as all the other baselines have been tampered with (NTEC, Carbine)Mini-rant: However, I don't think touching STABBA is the right choice right now, considering how bad the weapon balancing as a whole is (too much bullet spread, low TTK weapons which break the game. ~0.7s ttk weapons shouldn't exist, they should all be pushed in 0.85-0.9s range) It's kinda why STABBA is weak as well, because there are guns that simply outgun it based on TTK only. Take a look at the STABBA CCG, it's 1.05s TTS (time to stun)STABBA weapons (4 of them) are slower than 86% of the guns in the game, 0.3s (300ms) makes or breaks duels. STABBA doesn't need tweaking at all. Low TTK weapons (sub 0.8s ones) need a health damage nerf to slow them down into 0.9s-1.1s range (changing fire interval is just gonna change muscle memory, not a good approach) To put this into perspective, let's list out the most commonly used guns in the game: TTK STK Fire_Interval Health DMG SHAW 0.56s 8 0.08s 125 NFAS 0.58s 3 0.29s 33x12 AMG 0.585 10 0.065 100 NFA-9 0.63s 15 0.045s 70 ACES(S) 0.63s 15 0.045s 70 JG 0.65 2 0.65s 63x12 NTEC7 0.68s 5 0.17s 210 CAP40 0.696 7 0.116s 145 CSG 0.7 2 0.7 31x21 PMG 0.7 5 0.175s 200 NTEC 0.7 6 0.14s 185 OCA 0.7s 8 0.1s 125 FAR 0.7s 6 0.14s 175 SHOWST 0.7s 3 0.35s 42x9 ACES(R) 0.715s 14 0.055s 75 ALIG 0.72s 5 0.18s 225 SR15 0.75s 6 0.15s 180 STAR 0.75s 6 0.15s 175 NSSW 0.775s 6 0.115s 190 .45 AP 0.8s 5 0.2s 225 FR0G 0.8s 5 0.2s 210 SWARM 0.8s 6 0.16s 195 OSCAR 0.825s 7 0.05s(0.175s burst) 145x2 OBEYA 0.84 5 0.21s 245 ISSR-a 0.84s 4 0.28s 225 OBIR 1.2s 7 0.05 (0.45s burst) 165 x 3 In comparison, the STABBA guns: STABBA CCG 1.08s 8 0.15s 142 NL9 1.56s 3 0.78s 400 TG8 1s 6 0.2s 175 PIG 1s 2 1s 750 Another example for people to test out in live: try using guns with HB3 to get a feel for longer TTK (note: bullet spread might make it obnoxious on some guns) - N-TEC with HB3 (this is ~0.84s, which should be stock N-TEC TTK imo) - SR15 with HB3 (~0.9s, also stock TTK which it should adapt) etc. This would indirectly buff Fragile too, making it more viable (it's very underutilized in current Live), but changing the health nerf modifier from 0.86 to 0.9 would be helpful too. For anyone saying who wants to come in and say "...but long / higher TTK is bad, we've had test districts and nobody liked them..." Refer to this topic: https://forums.gamersfirst.com/topic/5968-am-i-the-only-dude-that-dislikes-the-slow-ttk/?tab=comments#comment-71943 (dopefish's comment) tldr:OSCAR / Obeya should be used as a baseline for balancing the other guns (in terms of TTK) The game desperately needs a slowdown of the TTK (longer / higher values) preferably to 0.9s - 1.1s range, this in turn will indirectly make STABBA a viable choice 2 STK weapons should be nerfed to 3 STK (think of "2STK 85-ing you and 3rd finishing off" type of damage) Edited October 20 by yourrandomnobody74 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CookiePuss 5382 Posted October 20 Guys there are a lot of guns, give the man time. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sweetLemonade 112 Posted October 20 50 minutes ago, CookiePuss said: Guys there are a lot of guns, give the man time. I'm sorry, but the person behind balancing decisions is a veteran who has had +10 years time to figure out what guns are problematic and what the fundamental issues of the game are during his playtime. If he hasn't figured out what the issues are, then he should consider reading the old forums in the wayback machine or search the suggestions forums (starting from the oldest topic) to refresh his thoughts and ideas.But hey, it's OK. We'll add LRR, blurring the range classification of guns even further & add unnecessary delay to mobile cover because someone in the arranged matches complained about them, that'll be better:^) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nabiki 66 Posted October 20 22 hours ago, ninjarrrr said: ayyy lmao the crusade against stabba players is so obvious, i mean, stun stealing isn't even a demerit. instead LO thinks the priority should be to nerf anything with stamina damage (DMR AV, dog ear etc) and just ignore that stabba is a thing. now we had 2 balance patches and yet, the weapon family that got nothing but nerfs conviently got excluded from any sort of buff, hilarious really. but again im not surprised since i've heard that their "reformed" testing team has someone with 17 bans (never cheated though ofc) and only plays with ntec+45+concs, so stabba never will have a chance of getting buffed Let me get this straight you want stabba an already broken and op weapon to be broken further are you out of your mind? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ninjarrrr 261 Posted October 20 41 minutes ago, Nabiki said: stabba an already broken and op weapon to be broken further are you out of your mind? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hexerin 1143 Posted October 21 9 hours ago, Nabiki said: Let me get this straight you want stabba an already broken and op weapon to be broken further are you out of your mind? Tell us you're green/bronze without telling us you're green/bronze. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LilyRain 680 Posted October 21 13 hours ago, yourrandomnobody74 said: Frosi is the current game designer for APB, voice your opinion on discord. (don't get your hopes up, he's the one who pushed the mobile cover nerf and greenlit LRR to the game...) Ever since the arrival of discord, forums have gotten a hard pushback into irrelevancy... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Yes, the guy who shamelessly White-Knighted the OCA-buff and PIG over-nerf ON THE SAME PATCH (https://www.gamersfirst.com/apb/news/2020/9/11/weapon-balance) is now the Designer. I indeed expect nothing but let us see if he steps his game up. He proved many times that he has a long way to go. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
