Need help with "minimum accurate kill time"

[ColorBauss 74]

I've long been interested in what I like to call "minimum accurate kill time", which means how fast a gun can kill while maintaining maximum accuracy. For example, how long does an ntec take to kill when:

- All 6 shots hit

- Shots are fired at the maximum fire rate that allows the bloom to reset completely

- And obviously no health regening in between shots

 

If there's any mathematically inclined people here, I'd like to know these stats on some weapons. Specifically on assault rifles like ntec, far, cobr-a, and rifles like obeya cr. These stats can most likely be figured out by looking at the stats at apbdb, but I just never bothered to do it.

[neophobia 216]

apbdb helps

shouldn't be too hard under your assumptions.

 

however, bloom resetting completely is quite unnecessary in most cases - with a min accuracy threshold however... hm... idk how trivial that is.

Edited May 19, 2022 by neophobia

[MonkaS 215]

check apbdb the values aren't 100% accurate though

[ColorBauss 74]

15 minutes ago, MonkaS said:

check apbdb the values aren't 100% accurate though

Yeah the values are all there but I don't know how to calculate them, to figure out this "minimum accurate kill time" you're going to need Fire Rate, Per Shot Modifier, Shot Modifier Cap (doesnt matter in this case actually because you won't reach max bloom with any of these weapons), Recovery Delay, Recovery Per Second and calculate how long does it take after every shot to return to minimum bloom

 

I would also consider something like 2 shot bursts vs tap fire, if the 2 shot burst doesn't lose enough accuracy to be considered a detriment

[yourrandomnobody74 106]

5 hours ago, ColorBauss said:

I've long been interested in what I like to call "minimum accurate kill time", which means how fast a gun can kill while maintaining maximum accuracy. For example, how long does an ntec take to kill when:

- All 6 shots hit

- Shots are fired at the maximum fire rate that allows the bloom to reset completely

- And obviously no health regening in between shots

 

If there's any mathematically inclined people here, I'd like to know these stats on some weapons. Specifically on assault rifles like ntec, far, cobr-a, and rifles like obeya cr. These stats can most likely be figured out by looking at the stats at apbdb, but I just never bothered to do it.

Calculate it by recording the footage and counting frame by frame (some players should have granular adjustments so you can see how many seconds it takes.

I can tell you a estimate, almost all TTK in this game is ~1s TTK if you want the best accuracy (waiting between shots)

You can always spray and pray, get lucky and kill faster, because bloom is a skill based mechanic and totally not random. 

Edited May 19, 2022 by yourrandomnobody74

[vsb 6171]

5 hours ago, ColorBauss said:

I've long been interested in what I like to call "minimum accurate kill time", which means how fast a gun can kill while maintaining maximum accuracy. For example, how long does an ntec take to kill when:

- All 6 shots hit

- Shots are fired at the maximum fire rate that allows the bloom to reset completely

- And obviously no health regening in between shots

 

If there's any mathematically inclined people here, I'd like to know these stats on some weapons. Specifically on assault rifles like ntec, far, cobr-a, and rifles like obeya cr. These stats can most likely be figured out by looking at the stats at apbdb, but I just never bothered to do it.

some weapons dont have linear bloom per shot, instead they operate on a curve that applies different values after each shot and/or sequence of shots - these values are not represented on apbdb afaik, so the only way to calculate a "minimum accurate kill time" would be through manual experimentation ingame

[LilyRain 674]

6 hours ago, ColorBauss said:

I've long been interested in what I like to call "minimum accurate kill time", which means how fast a gun can kill while maintaining maximum accuracy. For example, how long does an ntec take to kill when:

- All 6 shots hit

- Shots are fired at the maximum fire rate that allows the bloom to reset completely

- And obviously no health regening in between shots

 

If there's any mathematically inclined people here, I'd like to know these stats on some weapons. Specifically on assault rifles like ntec, far, cobr-a, and rifles like obeya cr. These stats can most likely be figured out by looking at the stats at apbdb, but I just never bothered to do it.

N-TEC 5 requires exactly 1 second to kill if it fires as soon as it fully recovers after every shot.
FAR: Requires 1.175s.
COBR-A: Requires 1.37237s.
Obeya CR762: Requires 1.17533s.

[ColorBauss 74]

10 hours ago, LilyRain said:

N-TEC 5 requires exactly 1 second to kill if it fires as soon as it fully recovers after every shot.
FAR: Requires 1.175s.
COBR-A: Requires 1.37237s.
Obeya CR762: Requires 1.17533s.

This is exactly what I wanted to know, thanks a lot! What about Ursus? That's the last one I would like to know.

[LilyRain 674]

25 minutes ago, ColorBauss said:

This is exactly what I wanted to know, thanks a lot! What about Ursus? That's the last one I would like to know.

You're most welcome!

Ursus requires 1.02 seconds, just a rice-grain behind N-TEC 5

Edited May 20, 2022 by LilyRain

[ColorBauss 74]

Thank you!

[yourrandomnobody74 106]

15 hours ago, LilyRain said:

N-TEC 5 requires exactly 1 second to kill if it fires as soon as it fully recovers after every shot.
FAR: Requires 1.175s.
COBR-A: Requires 1.37237s.
Obeya CR762: Requires 1.17533s.

The fact people still think that it's better to have lower TTK with bloom (which artificially lengthens ttk to ~1.1s, as you've mentioned) than just having high TTK with values set to ~1.1s without bloom baffles me to no end.

It'll be the same TTK, it would just feel consistent instead of being a RNG based mess? smh...

Hopefully someone will make a private server APB with proper balancing since LO doesn't seem to care anymore.

Edited May 20, 2022 by yourrandomnobody74

[ColorBauss 74]

57 minutes ago, yourrandomnobody74 said:

The fact people still think that it's better to have lower TTK with bloom (which artificially lengthens ttk to ~1.1s, as you've mentioned) than just having high TTK with values set to ~1.1s without bloom baffles me to no end.

It'll be the same TTK, it would just feel consistent instead of being a RNG based mess? smh...

Hopefully someone will make a private server APB with proper balancing since LO doesn't seem to care anymore.

What a stupid opinion, you really want to make all weapons point-and-click ATACs and raptors? 

[LilyRain 674]

3 hours ago, yourrandomnobody74 said:

The fact people still think that it's better to have lower TTK with bloom (which artificially lengthens ttk to ~1.1s, as you've mentioned) than just having high TTK with values set to ~1.1s without bloom baffles me to no end.

It'll be the same TTK, it would just feel consistent instead of being a RNG based mess? smh...

Hopefully someone will make a private server APB with proper balancing since LO doesn't seem to care anymore.

I don't like bloom either and I wish it gets toned down a bit. APB has one of the highest bloom-mechanics in a shooter ever.

But TTK is much more complicated. The TTKs I've mentioned reflect shooting with the best possible weapon accuracy. In a real fight though, that much accuracy is usually never needed depending on distance to enemy. Modifications such as Hunting Sight 3 on Assault Rifles will further make weapons more accurate, ultimately giving extra room for bloom. Most well-controlled N-TEC 5s will kill in an average of ~0.84s.

[ColorBauss 74]

Apb certainly does have one of the highest bloom mechanics in any game.. but what other mechanic can you really think of that makes guns diverse enough? We have damage, fire rate, accuracy, bloom, magazine size and reload speed... along with some minor ones like walking speed while in marksman. If you take bloom out of this equation, people will just take the gun that kills fastest. What difference will there be in, say, assault rifles after that?

[yourrandomnobody74 106]

4 hours ago, ColorBauss said:

What a stupid opinion, you really want to make all weapons point-and-click ATACs and raptors? 

The ATAC and Raptor aren't "point-and-click" guns, there is no gun like that in APB right now (the exception is the Scout with HS somewhat, even it isn't 100% accurate when in ADS, they've nerfed this back when jumpshooting was a thing)

What's funny is that both guns you've mentioned have bloom too

1 hour ago, ColorBauss said:

Apb certainly does have one of the highest bloom mechanics in any game.. but what other mechanic can you really think of that makes guns diverse enough? We have damage, fire rate, accuracy, bloom, magazine size and reload speed... along with some minor ones like walking speed while in marksman. If you take bloom out of this equation, people will just take the gun that kills fastest. What difference will there be in, say, assault rifles after that?

You ever heard of recoil? Accuracy while shooting/bloom and initial accuracy should NEVER be a metric used to balance and differentiate guns. It makes the aiming part irrelevant in this game. 

Differences between guns should be seen in damage/TTK (balanced around a higher ~1.1s value), range at which drop-off starts, magazine size, reload speed, weapon sound, recoil.

All of these would still allow the more skilled opponent to win duels, not whoever has better luck in regards to hit registration of the server or bloom.

 

On top of my head, these are the changes I've been proposing for quite some time on the forums (taken from some old veteran players as well) which we should've got before the roadmap post where their only supposed hope got shattered:

 

• Removal of bloom -  would lead to ADS being 100% accurate (or if you wanna gimp players, up until a certain bullet count, somewhat similar to OW's soldier old rifle gameplay for the NTEC for instance)

• Increasing TTK overall to ~1.1s of all guns (this is very relative, on estimate +2-3 STK

• Adjust health regen (either making CA3 the default regen by default and making CA2 into Clotting Agent or the opposite, streamline character mods like they should've been in the first place. Great thread on it in the suggestions forums.)

• Balancing mods: Making green mods viable and removing downsides of blue character mods. Removing weapon mods such as Cooling Jacket and Improved Rifling (no gun should get a instant upgrade in form of better range and lower TTK, regardless of bloom factor and inaccuracy). Adjusting Hunting Sight to give lower FoV and not more first bullet accuracy and overall accuracy (all guns should have their first bullet be 100% accurate in ADS, making the game less reliant on mods, they should be sidegrades not upgrades)

• Adjusting weapon ranges accordingly

• Make all snipers and shotguns ≥3 STK

• Removing the atrocious mechanics on the HVR and Tommy Gun and all the other mechanics which are not intuitive at all.

• Increasing crouch movement speed (Dopefish's thread has more in-depth suggestions, sadly the old forums have a ton of good suggestions removed, such as balancing spots in Waterfront as mentioned below)

• Adjusting broken map spots, especially in Waterfront

• Making a PROPER tutorial with the help of the veterans of the community.

• Reverting shaders to early G1, RTW era

 

Link to Dopefish thread (can't embed properly) : https://web.archive.org/web/20150128031946/http://forums.gamersfirst.com/topic/288723-dopefish-list-of-suggestions-and-issues-v2/

I have ton of other suggestions in mind, which a ton of the left-over community base wouldn't agree since only silvers are left from what I've seen, so they wouldn't agree on making the game harder to master.

 

After engine upgrade release:

• New content in form of contacts, vehicles, symbols, clan activities, battle passes, 3 fight club maps (hopefully this'll happen after getting rid of Kismet, the old UI APB has. APB runs on Kismet + Scaleform and this can contribute to some major FPS drops, it's a big performance culprit tho in this day and age it's irrelevant as APB runs fine on modern systems)

• Adjusting vehicle handlings (requires new engine upgrade for increasing vehicle speed)

• Adding movement mechanics akin to Bloodhunt and other movement games

• Adding headshots if above changes are done.

Edited May 20, 2022 by yourrandomnobody74

[ColorBauss 74]

Bloom and accuracy are not the same thing, this sentence  "Removal of bloom -  would lead to ADS being 100% accurate"  doesn't make sense, this just means making give all guns max accuracy while in marksman, not removing bloom that occurs after every shot. If you really mean removing bloom completely, you would just make every gun a automatic lazer gun, which would be so stupid no one would play the game anymore.

 

What I understand is you just want the game to play slower in all aspects. You have a lot of good points like removing red mods and changing guns baseline, but overall I still like the customizability of mods even if 90% of the time you use the same mods...  I disagree with making guns kill slower and be 100% accurate in marksman, you already have guns that have almost no bloom and very good accuracy in marksman mode, like star old glory, ar-97 misery. But they kill slower, of course, because they are easier to use. If all guns mostly worked like them, the game would become so boring and slow... that is if every gun got their TTK reduced. If smg's and shotguns didn't get the nerf bat as well, they would just dominate all rifles. Or if they did, how fun would it be to sit there with a PMG and fire 8-9 bullets into someone? Also there are already plenty of 3STK shotguns, what would happen to them? They would turn into 5STK? Talk about bullet sponge... Maybe in this case people would use snipers like scout and just camp 24/7 behind boxes and corners because now assault rifles would no longer be as big a threat to them. 

 

It's just a bad idea to slow the game down like this and 99% of playerbase would dislike it

 

 

EDIT: "You ever heard of recoil? Accuracy while shooting/bloom and initial accuracy should NEVER be a metric used to balance and differentiate guns." 

This is actually something that is somewhat of a hard-stop for cheaters, as recoil can be completely negated with software, but accuracy and bloom is serverside. Any cheater would instantly become god if what you proposed came true... now we can still outplay them as they can't get away from the client-side restrictions.

Edited May 20, 2022 by ColorBauss

[BlatMan 711]

9 hours ago, yourrandomnobody74 said:

The ATAC and Raptor aren't "point-and-click" guns, there is no gun like that in APB right now

 

They're "point and right click". There's little to no horizontal recoil, just pull down a little to control the recoil. Both work great up to 30M, with the ATAC needing to tap fire beyond that to land all your hits while the Raptor can land 90% hits even at 40M spraying, if you use hunting site and no red mods.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 21, 2022 by BlatMan

[Revoluzzer 274]

On 5/20/2022 at 3:20 PM, yourrandomnobody74 said:

The fact people still think that it's better to have lower TTK with bloom (which artificially lengthens ttk to ~1.1s, as you've mentioned) than just having high TTK with values set to ~1.1s without bloom baffles me to no end.

Bloom allows for more variety in weapon design, as ColorBauss correctly pointed out. With bloom you can define a range in which a weapon is comfortable. You can either give it the ability to operate outside that range (low bloom per shot and/or high bloom recovery), or restrict it from functioning efficiently beyond a certain point (high bloom per shot and/or low bloom recovery).

What you vilify as "rng" is really just operating outside the comfort zone of a weapon. It doesn't hit reliably then, because it's not supposed to. But it still gives you the option to take a chance, yet not without risk.

 

The early STAR 556 and N-Tec 5 were great concepts for this, albeit terribly executed.

One was supposed to perform well under sustained fire, but struggle at precise shots. The other should be able to reach out further, but struggle with actual long range encounters. At the end of the day the N-Tec 5 did everything the STAR could, but better.

Why? Because the N-Tec was able to kill faster (i.e. had the upper hand at close range, where bloom does not matter), had a higher base accuracy (i.e. had the upper hand at long distance combat) and recovered bloom faster (i.e. could stay closer to its ideal TTK at medium range). The STAR, on the other hand, had a very limited window of distance, in which it was comfortable to use.

Now, had their damage and rate-of-fire values been reversed, they'd have made a great pair. The STAR would have had the upper hand at close to medium range, the N-Tec at medium to long range. But at the far end of it's comfort zone the N-Tec would not have been able to out-pace marksman rifles.

From a purely visual standpoint I'd have had the N-Tec be dominant at close to medium, and the STAR from medium to long range. But that's less important.

 

Without bloom, however? You'd have a hard time creating two distinguishable weapons from this very similar set of characteristics.

 

The original ATAC was a great addon to this concept, by the way. With very low base accuracy, but hardly any bloom it was perfectly comfortable at close to medium range, but mostly useless beyond that point. Yet with the necessity to use it in marksman-mode, it was still discernible from proper SMGs. It's also why the 'Watchman'-preset was such a useless pile of junk. It tried to turn the ATAC into a medium to long range weapon, turning the very concept on its head.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Revoluzzer

[ColorBauss 74]

Thank you Revoluzzer, you explained what I couldn't put into words very nicely.

[Noob_Guardian 417]

On 5/19/2022 at 10:59 AM, ColorBauss said:

I've long been interested in what I like to call "minimum accurate kill time", which means how fast a gun can kill while maintaining maximum accuracy. For example, how long does an ntec take to kill when:

- All 6 shots hit

- Shots are fired at the maximum fire rate that allows the bloom to reset completely

- And obviously no health regening in between shots

 

If there's any mathematically inclined people here, I'd like to know these stats on some weapons. Specifically on assault rifles like ntec, far, cobr-a, and rifles like obeya cr. These stats can most likely be figured out by looking at the stats at apbdb, but I just never bothered to do it.

I mean, i have figured it out using a macro to test the NTEC, i didnt care about the other weapons.

 

On 5/19/2022 at 6:03 PM, LilyRain said:

N-TEC 5 requires exactly 1 second to kill if it fires as soon as it fully recovers after every shot.
FAR: Requires 1.175s.
COBR-A: Requires 1.37237s.
Obeya CR762: Requires 1.17533s.

Lily, the NTEC stat i believe is incorrect. It should be like, 1.26 or 1.28s, as I had used a macro in game to adjust firerate until it was perfectly accurate without any "shots fired with minor bloom". Unless your test was more recent than mine....

 

Sadly this information also is great for those who like using macros to set weapon firerates. Which ironically, people have done before.

 

 

On 5/20/2022 at 2:46 PM, yourrandomnobody74 said:

• Removal of bloom -  would lead to ADS being 100% accurate (or if you wanna gimp players, up until a certain bullet count, somewhat similar to OW's soldier old rifle gameplay for the NTEC for instance)

• Increasing TTK overall to ~1.1s of all guns (this is very relative, on estimate +2-3 STK

• Adjust health regen (either making CA3 the default regen by default and making CA2 into Clotting Agent or the opposite, streamline character mods like they should've been in the first place. Great thread on it in the suggestions forums.)

• Balancing mods: Making green mods viable and removing downsides of blue character mods. Removing weapon mods such as Cooling Jacket and Improved Rifling (no gun should get a instant upgrade in form of better range and lower TTK, regardless of bloom factor and inaccuracy). Adjusting Hunting Sight to give lower FoV and not more first bullet accuracy and overall accuracy (all guns should have their first bullet be 100% accurate in ADS, making the game less reliant on mods, they should be sidegrades not upgrades)

• Adjusting weapon ranges accordingly

• Make all snipers and shotguns ≥3 STK

• Removing the atrocious mechanics on the HVR and Tommy Gun and all the other mechanics which are not intuitive at all.

• Increasing crouch movement speed (Dopefish's thread has more in-depth suggestions, sadly the old forums have a ton of good suggestions removed, such as balancing spots in Waterfront as mentioned below)

• Adjusting broken map spots, especially in Waterfront

• Making a PROPER tutorial with the help of the veterans of the community.

• Reverting shaders to early G1, RTW era

 

Link to Dopefish thread (can't embed properly) : https://web.archive.org/web/20150128031946/http://forums.gamersfirst.com/topic/288723-dopefish-list-of-suggestions-and-issues-v2/

I have ton of other suggestions in mind, which a ton of the left-over community base wouldn't agree since only silvers are left from what I've seen, so they wouldn't agree on making the game harder to master.

 

After engine upgrade release:

• New content in form of contacts, vehicles, symbols, clan activities, battle passes, 3 fight club maps (hopefully this'll happen after getting rid of Kismet, the old UI APB has. APB runs on Kismet + Scaleform and this can contribute to some major FPS drops, it's a big performance culprit tho in this day and age it's irrelevant as APB runs fine on modern systems)

• Adjusting vehicle handlings (requires new engine upgrade for increasing vehicle speed)

• Adding movement mechanics akin to Bloodhunt and other movement games

• Adding headshots if above changes are done.

 

Removal of bloom would be horrible. You'd have to heavily rebalance recoil, or you'll end up with Modern Warfare 2.0 where every gun litterally -handles exactly the same-. That's not the goal of APB, ALSO, if you remove bloom, you ALSO, have to hard -remove- damage passed the "max weapon range". Making bullets -disappear- midair like in 2012/2013, to even think of balancing anything, because you'' then have everyone running ATACs to melt everyone because who needs bloom to make it inaccurate so it -doesn't- melt everything at range?

 

G1 blew any chance of a mass TTK increase out the water. Sadly, that would also require a lot more work to even think of rebalancing any weapons, as the entire gunplay for the game, would slow down drastically, unless you're making everything a free kill laser which seems like your intent.

 

Balancing mod suggestion is bad. While I agree making other green mods than CA more viable, and less situational, the only one that can really be said to suck is fragile.  Removing red mods is dumb, every game has ways to increase ROF and TTK, and you want to remove the only way to do so in this one to balance your broken perceived perfect balance. Hunting sight is fine, and no weapon should guarantee a first bullet hit. Imagine sniping 35-45m with IR3 with an OCA just because you put a dot on your screen and tap fire fast enough. ROFL Yeah no.

 

Snipers are fine as 2 shot, shotguns really could go with 3 shot though.

 

The HVR mechanics are there explicitly because "3point sling" exists, Unless that gets heavily nerfed, then it won't be going away. Thank 3ps3 quickswitching and using fbw/.45 then sniping cqc with it before you can get killed from the -cqc- based weapons. It forces pistol use in cqc. (though it feels glitchy at times)

Tommy mechanics should be re-worked to pre-nerf. It's just dumb that they ruined it. Even if they rebalance it after. Crouch movement is fine, unless you're asking to crouch run/job, which may be cool but also be broken. Only testing would really tell. (new blue mod anyone?)

 

Maps got one or two balance patches and then they didn't touch em anymore citing APB 2.0. So i hope they actually go and fix some of the stuff, because it's honestly broken otherwise.

 

Headshots are broken AF.

 

I'm surprised the UI hasn't fully switched yet, but i guess that's coming with upgrade?

 

Increasing vehicle speed would be a bit broken. Just come flying through at 75-90m/s and run someone over? Car push and break those missions? Rework explosives to fire faster because you just broke something? Yeah no lol. We don't need any more vegas speed monsters running around lol. But i do agree on fixing handling or doing something cool with the camera.

 

Movement mechanics would be cool - depending - on what they are.

 

Headshots? Forever broken, in APB, and can be dumb AF in most other games no thanks lol. You're asking to add headshots in a game where you can hit the -head hitbox- while the enemy is crouched behind 85% of cover that exists, without actually seeing the head. They're some of the dumbest things in most FPS games, especially due to where they place their cameras to shoot back.

 

-see tip of head but no gun- -headshots you- wtf? No need to have that but to a worse degree in APB, unless they increase the size of every cover and railing by like 5 inches, and THEN, they are going to have to increase the jump height as well. lol

 

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by Noob_Guardian

[MonkaS 215]

Man this thread became a gun balance thread quick maybe LO should actually listen to the community for once and just revert gun balance to like 2014/5/6~ game just honestly feels worse besides quickswitch fix, low yield balance, pig/perc, and hvr(even tho damage ramp up would've been better fix imo). I like pre-nerf ntec, oca(whisper as well), pmg, carbine, obeya cr, jump scout, concs, joker rfp, jg, and csg.

Edited May 23, 2022 by MonkaS

[Noob_Guardian 417]

5 minutes ago, MonkaS said:

Man this thread became a gun balance thread quick maybe LO should actually listen to the community for once and just revert gun balance to like 2014/5/6~ game just honestly feels worse besides quickswitch fix, low yield balance, pig/perc, and hvr(even tho damage ramp up would've been better fix imo).

I actually like most of the current gun balance. The issue isn't so much gun balance anymore, as it is skill cap - lack of cover/unprotective cover, and the like. Though I will be honest and say that with most jump shooting removed, gameplay feels more clunky at times. They had done some cqc weapon reworks that weren't necessary (buffing oca, then nerfing it back to where it should have ben) and other things which made it wierd. Add in the wierdness of shotguns and lol...

[MonkaS 215]

6 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

I actually like most of the current gun balance. The issue isn't so much gun balance anymore, as it is skill cap - lack of cover/unprotective cover, and the like. Though I will be honest and say that with most jump shooting removed, gameplay feels more clunky at times. They had done some cqc weapon reworks that weren't necessary (buffing oca, then nerfing it back to where it should have ben) and other things which made it wierd. Add in the wierdness of shotguns and lol...

Everything just has worse starting/max bloom and bloom recovery which imo makes the game feel worse its LO/G1 knowing they need to slow the ttk due to entire game being originally designed (maps & animations) for it but there's someone who prob still works at the company that doesn't want to admit that mistake prob the same person who originally adjusted the ttk. btw not asking for rtw ttk/gun values since that wasn't ideal either.

Edited May 23, 2022 by MonkaS

[vsb 6171]

On 5/20/2022 at 2:46 PM, yourrandomnobody74 said:

You ever heard of recoil? Accuracy while shooting/bloom and initial accuracy should NEVER be a metric used to balance and differentiate guns. It makes the aiming part irrelevant in this game. 

Differences between guns should be seen in damage/TTK (balanced around a higher ~1.1s value), range at which drop-off starts, magazine size, reload speed, weapon sound, recoil.

All of these would still allow the more skilled opponent to win duels, not whoever has better luck in regards to hit registration of the server or bloom.

 

• Removal of bloom -  would lead to ADS being 100% accurate (or if you wanna gimp players, up until a certain bullet count, somewhat similar to OW's soldier old rifle gameplay for the NTEC for instance)

i agree that initial spread should not be used to balance weapons, but bloom serves an important purpose in encouraging/enforcing players to use weapons "correctly", without bloom the gunplay is reduced to ttk meta - this is not something that can be fixed with recoil unless you plan on adding horizontal recoil to every weapon, which is simply bloom by another name

 

 

On 5/20/2022 at 2:46 PM, yourrandomnobody74 said:

• Balancing mods: Making green mods viable and removing downsides of blue character mods. Removing weapon mods such as Cooling Jacket and Improved Rifling (no gun should get a instant upgrade in form of better range and lower TTK, regardless of bloom factor and inaccuracy). Adjusting Hunting Sight to give lower FoV and not more first bullet accuracy and overall accuracy (all guns should have their first bullet be 100% accurate in ADS, making the game less reliant on mods, they should be sidegrades not upgrades)

removing downsides from blue mods is just a happy landings buff - car surfer's downside is baked into the mechanic itself, much like cooling jacket, and hard landings is rendered worthless

 

why do you want to remove weapon mods for perceived "instant upgrades" but also want several character mods to be instant upgrades?

 

sight mods would be irrelevant in a zero bloom balance, 100m draw distance makes fov changes a negligible preference, only used because red mods would no longer exist

 

 

On 5/20/2022 at 2:46 PM, yourrandomnobody74 said:

• Adjusting vehicle handlings (requires new engine upgrade for increasing vehicle speed)

i dont think vehicle speed needs to be increased with how small the maps are, there are other ways to spoof the feel of faster vehicles

 

 

On 5/20/2022 at 2:46 PM, yourrandomnobody74 said:

• Adding movement mechanics akin to Bloodhunt and other movement games

• Adding headshots if above changes are done.

bloodhunts movement is wildly out of style for apb, and wouldn't mesh well with apb's maps without massive overhauls - i dont even think bloodhunts movement works well within its own game tbh, a majority of gameplay ive seen has players ignoring all but the top two stories of the map unless they need loot

 

headshots seem to directly conflict with your desire for a more skill-based high ttk game, and would also need large scale map changes for balance

[Noob_Guardian 417]

3 hours ago, MonkaS said:

Everything just has worse starting/max bloom and bloom recovery which imo makes the game feel worse its LO/G1 knowing they need to slow the ttk due to entire game being originally designed (maps & animations) for it but there's someone who prob still works at the company that doesn't want to admit that mistake prob the same person who originally adjusted the ttk. btw not asking for rtw ttk/gun values since that wasn't ideal either.

Noone is going to notice even half the bloom changes if they started. Older players would, but most left so you can discount most of them. G1 had plans to rework the maps to be better once the upgrade which ironically never happened. Maps were meant to be reworked, and the animations were all but removed by g1 leaving a ton of abusable glitches around.