OSCAR with CJ

[Clarie 78]

Short and stupid question: 

 

In which way does CJ affect the OSCAR ? It either reduces the fire intervall of the bursts ( ability to spam faster -> less time to kill) 

or it just increases the fire rate of each burst ?

 

[Frosi 722]

It reduces the delay between the two bullets per burst, it is an EXTREMELY minor decrease in ttk (0.83>0.80) as the burst interval is unchanged. Generally speaking IR3 is far more worth it.

Edited October 16, 2019 by Frosi

[Thial 176]

CJ is useless on OSCAR if you are considering it. The best thing you can do is master the firerate to the point where it looks like you are using a macro. If you are wondering then the most pro mlg oscar setup in my experience is:

1. Improved Rifling 3 - Self explanatory, increased range.
2. Magazine Pull 3 - Amazing reload speed. Lets you shoot continuously basically. Priceless in open area fights vs multiple people. If anyone will complain about small mag size then maybe they shouldn't play OSCAR since it's a gun which punishes missing a lot in the first place.
3. Tagger - Will help you spot hiding cowards and help you be ahead of people's actions since timing means a lot on OSCAR (Eventually if you ADS a lot or you use Spotter you can replace it with Mobility Sling or 3-Point Sling)

(Never use Reflex Sight as it cripples your ADS and does nothing accuracy wise for OSCAR)

Relinking all of my evidence here to prove that:

- RS3 is completely pointless on OSCAR:

 

- OSCAR HAS recoil so ADS is a viable choice:

https://streamable.com/5n64g

Here's also recoil difference between hipfire and ADS. ADS OSCAR shots have approximately 70% less recoil compared to hipfire shots when firing at something from the same exact distance.



- ADS lean quicscope is better than ADS strafe:

https://streamable.com/ocw0k

- ADS lean quickscope is faster (200ms exposure) vs hipfire strafe (250ms exposure):

Raw OSCAR ADS lean quickscope speed:

https://streamable.com/xjv5g

Visibility estimation: Hipfire vs Lean:

Edited October 18, 2019 by Thial

[Nitronik 348]

51 minutes ago, Clarie said:

Short and stupid question: 

 

In which way does CJ affect the OSCAR ? It either reduces the fire intervall of the bursts ( ability to spam faster -> less time to kill) 

or it just increases the fire rate of each burst ?

 

Like on the OBIR, it reduces the interval between the bullets in a burst

The OBIR works like this (the OSCAR would fire one less shot) :

Fire -> Wait for fire Interval -> Fire -> Wait for fire Interval -> Fire -> Wait for Burst Interval

It's technically helping you a *little* bit by making it take less time before the Burst Interval starts counting down - but frankly it's a very minor, almost negligible benefit.

 

CJ did briefly affect Burst Interval on the OTW - and the results were fairly busted

Edited October 16, 2019 by Nitronik

[vsb 6170]

3 minutes ago, Nitronik said:

CJ did briefly affect Burst Interval on the OTW - and the results were fairly busted

yeah cj actually affecting burst fire weapons was broken af

[CookiePuss 5373]

2 hours ago, Solamente said:

yeah cj actually affecting burst fire weapons was broken af

Obir with and without OTW cj:

Oscar with and without OTW cj:

 

 

If yo notice, the difference was much more pronounced with the Obir vs the Oscar

[safdfsgkjhdgsjkhs 140]

reflex actually tightens the spread of the oscar by alot.

 

its not possible to tell on your own client though, you need to see someone else shooting a wall with reflex 3 oscar to be able to understand it. but if you want to reliably hit both bullets of the spread id use reflex 3, test it with a friend if you are curious... shoot a wall with reflex 3 and have your friend see the bullet spread and have him do the same for you.

[vsb 6170]

1 minute ago, safdfsgkjhdgsjkhs said:

reflex actually tightens the spread of the oscar by alot.

 

its not possible to tell on your own client though, you need to see someone else shooting a wall with reflex 3 oscar to be able to understand it. but if you want to reliably hit both bullets of the spread id use reflex 3, test it with a friend if you are curious... shoot a wall with reflex 3 and have your friend see the bullet spread and have him do the same for you.

i assume you're replying to this?

2 hours ago, Thial said:

(Never use Reflex Sight as it cripples your ADS and does nothing accuracy wise for OSCAR)

 

 

[Thial 176]

1 hour ago, safdfsgkjhdgsjkhs said:

reflex actually tightens the spread of the oscar by alot.

 

its not possible to tell on your own client though, you need to see someone else shooting a wall with reflex 3 oscar to be able to understand it. but if you want to reliably hit both bullets of the spread id use reflex 3, test it with a friend if you are curious... shoot a wall with reflex 3 and have your friend see the bullet spread and have him do the same for you.

Highly doubt it since I was using OSCAR for few years and tested it both w/ and w/o RS3 and it does dogshit on it. Only cripples your ADS. Had absolutely no problems landing my bursts even on the longest range with only IR3. I'm not basing my tips on what ifs and placebo but years of experience.

Edited October 16, 2019 by Thial

[Clarie 78]

First of all thank you very much for all the very proficient replies. I think I'm gonna use IR3, MP3 and Tagger from now on. 

 

1 hour ago, safdfsgkjhdgsjkhs said:

reflex actually tightens the spread of the oscar by alot.

I didn't really notice any big differences after using RS3 apart from all the disadvantages when ads.

[CookiePuss 5373]

4 hours ago, Thial said:

(Never use Reflex Sight as it cripples your ADS and does nothing accuracy wise for OSCAR)

It absolutely increases hipfire accuracy, that's literally what the mod does. In fact it improves hipfire accuracy more than ADS improves accuracy.

The marksman modifier is 0.98, which is why there is never ever a reason to ADS. Reflex sight 3 on the other hand has a .90 modifier for hipfire accuracy, and since you should never ADS, has no downside.

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2019 by CookiePuss

[Thial 176]

7 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

I absolutely increases hipfire, that's literally what the mod does. In fact it improves hipfire accuracy more than ADS improves accuracy.

Also the marksman modifier is 0.98, which is why there is never ever a reason to ADS. Reflex sight 3 on the other hand has a .90 modifier for hipfire accuracy, and since you should never ADS, has no downside.

Stat wise it does but not in practice. As I've said I used to play OSCAR for many years and at some point for a year straight as it used to be my main weapon and I've tested it both w/ and w/o RS3. Dropped RS3 and I don't see any difference in my accuracy in the effective range. The difference is so microscopic that it's definitely not worth the mod slot.

It's definitely easier to ADS around corners than hipfire and risk being hit unless you wanna just run around the street like a headless chicken and forget about taking cover. Consistent corner pop with OSCAR aligned to the max firerate is nearly impossible without revealing a lot of your body. ADS is a much better choice in that situation.

Edited October 16, 2019 by Thial

[CookiePuss 5373]

2 minutes ago, Thial said:

Stat wise it does but not in practice.

This statement make no actual sense.

 

I you prefer to play the Oscar wrong, that's on you.

Why you would ads around a corner rather than hipfire the corner shotguns style is beyond me, unless you just want to handicap yourself by being exposed for a longer period of time.

[Thial 176]

13 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

This statement make no actual sense.

 

I you prefer to play the Oscar wrong, that's on you.

Why you would ads around a corner rather than hipfire the corner shotguns style is beyond me, unless you just want to handicap yourself by being exposed for a longer period of time.

Just because you see a small change in the numbers doesn't mean that it will have actual major impact on the mechanics. Just as you didn't believe me that you can snipe with PMG @ 40m consistently.

 

I mean if you don't see a difference between an ADS aiming and hipfire then this convo is pointless.

This is highly situational depending on the enemy setup and the distance to your targets. Basically it's just game sense and being aware of the psyche of your opponents.
You will reveal much less of your body by doing an ADS lean quickscope than by revealing your entire body with hipfire shooting.
Yes the hitbox is the same but what's perceived by your opponent matters the most.
A lot of people won't be able to react to a quick lean ADS corner pop in time as opposed to a hipfire strafe where you are revealing your entire character and it's highly noticable as opposed to only showing your head around the corner for split of a second.
Revealing the majority of the body will have a higher impact on the opponent's mind + makes it easier for their mind to aim at you since they can aim anywhere vertically.
If you are only revealing your head 99% of the people will try to hit your head which increases the chance of error since the lean pop is also faster than succesful ADS strafe and it's easier to execute for you but makes the enemies more tense since they will try to hyper focus to hit you in the face.

Edited October 16, 2019 by Thial

[GhosT 1301]

Lol at "it's a gun which punishes missing a lot in the first place." and people actually going ADS with it.

 

That's dense.

[CookiePuss 5373]

5 minutes ago, GhosT said:

Lol at "it's a gun which punishes missing a lot in the first place." and people actually going ADS with it.

 

That's dense.

[Thial 176]

15 minutes ago, GhosT said:

Lol at "it's a gun which punishes missing a lot in the first place." and people actually going ADS with it.

 

That's dense.

9 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

edgy gif

Seems like you've never played against skilled players who will 180* flick quickscope you if you reveal as much as your ear. Yes in the majority of cases you will be engaging in an open area zig zag party but in some matches / situations skillful ADS is very important. Especially if you are trying to outperform obeya / obir / sniper users with OSCAR even if you won't deal that much damage on longer ranges. Skillful ADS poking can kill them / make them hide and help your team. It's ridiculous to sacrifice a mod slot for RS3 for a microscopic difference and cripple the ADS as a result. I'm actually surprised that you don't know that. Or just trolling. 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Thial

[GhosT 1301]

2 minutes ago, Thial said:

Seems like you've never played against skilled players who will 180* flick quickscope you if you reveal as much as your ear. Yes in the majority of cases you will be engaging in an open area zig zag party but in some matches / situations skillful ADS is very important. Especially if you are trying to outperform obeya / obir / sniper users with OSCAR even if you won't deal that much damage. Skillful ADS poking can make them hide though and help your team. It's ridiculous to sacrifice a mod slot for RS3 for a microscopic difference and cripple the ADS as a result. I'm actually surprised that you don't know that. Or just trolling. 

 

According to your logic, ADS should be just as irrelevant as RS3 because it doesn't really do anything either.

[CookiePuss 5373]

For anyone reading this...

 

Marksman mode gives you an accuracy value of 13.72cm @ 10m, while also giving you the movement speed penalty. 

 

Hipfire with Reflex Sight 3 gives you an accuracy value of 12.6cm @ 10m while not impeding movement speed at all. 

 

The gun is always more accurate with Reflex Sight. 

The player is always less accurate while ADS, as well as being a slower moving target. 

 

 

Always run Reflex Sight 3 (with IR3), never ADS. 

 

This is Oscar use 101. 

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2019 by CookiePuss

[Thial 176]

3 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

For anyone reading this...

 

Marksman mode gives you an accuracy value of 13.72cm @ 10m, while also giving you the movement speed penalty. 

 

Hipfire with Reflex Sight 3 gives you an accuracy value of 12.6cm @ 10m while not impeding movement speed at all. 

 

The gun is always more accurate with Reflex Sight. 

The player is always less accurate while ADS, as well as being a slower moving target. 

 

 

Always run Reflex Sight 3 (with IR3), never ADS. 

 

This is Oscar use 101. 

 

 

 

This only proves that you didn't read my posts properly. I wrote about quickscope lean ADS. No moving involved (lean out of the corner and zoom at the same time, shoot, and immediately zoom out, lean in and walk into the corner, it takes split of a second and makes it nearly impossible to hit a person doing it correctly)
It gives you advantage over your enemies since it's performed much faster than a hipfire strafe and makes people try to aim at your head as opposed to anywhere on your body which makes people more tense as the target is much smaller increasing the chance of error.

It's simple human psychology.
I can't even count how many snipers I've scared off / killed / had them hackusate me by doing lean quickscoping properly with minimal risk to myself because they just can't hit me in time as opposed to trying to hipfire around corners and having a smaller zoom which makes it more difficult to hit more distant targets.

I'm not saying that ADS on OSCAR is great.
It's not.
But it's stupid to sacrifice it completely for some miniscule difference from RS3.

About your numbers. Test OSCAR w/ and w/o RS3 in the actual game, as in check the bullet spread etc on different ranges and then come back here and tell me what you'll find out.

It's the same situation as in 40m PMG sniping.
You were so sure that it's bullshoot because the numbers are saying so and then oh surprise it actually works.
The difference from using RS3 on oscar is so microscopic that it makes it not worth the mod slot at all. 

[GhosT 1301]

14 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

For anyone reading this...

 

Marksman mode gives you an accuracy value of 13.72cm @ 10m, while also giving you the movement speed penalty. 

Hipfire with Reflex Sight 3 gives you an accuracy value of 12.6cm @ 10m while not impeding movement speed at all. 

The gun is always more accurate with Reflex Sight. 

The player is always less accurate while ADS, as well as being a slower moving target. 

 

Always run Reflex Sight 3 (with IR3), never ADS. 

 

This is Oscar use 101. 

 

Any OSCAR user that knows what he's doing should know that, and that you should never ADS with it.

 

..apparently there are some exceptions.

[CookiePuss 5373]

10 minutes ago, Thial said:

 

It's the same situation as in 40m PMG sniping.
 

The numbers are why the PMG is better at 40m. 

It's just more accurate than the OCA. 

 

33cm @ 10m

         Vs

36cm @ 10m

 

10 minutes ago, Thial said:

 

 

The difference from using RS3 on oscar is so microscopic that it makes it not worth the mod slot at all. 

It's a bigger difference than ADS. 

 

10 minutes ago, Thial said:

I wrote about quickscope lean ADS. No moving involved (lean out of the corner and zoom at the same time, shoot, and immediately zoom out, lean in and walk into the corner, it takes split of a second and makes it nearly impossible to hit a person doing it correctly)
 

I really hope you haven't been telling people to do this. 

 

Is this how you play pump shotguns as well?

 

I mean if it works for you I suppose stick with it. 

But it's not the most effective way to use the weapon. 

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2019 by CookiePuss

[Thial 176]

11 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

The numbers are why the PMG is better at 40m. 

It's just more accurate than the OCA. 

 

33cm @ 10m

         Vs

36cm @ 10m

 

It's a bigger difference than ADS. 

 

I really hope you haven't been telling people to do this. 

You are a real denial andy. I'm literally saying that after playing this way for years (often vs some of the top players). Yes 80% of the time I'm using hipfire. But that 20% of the time when I needed it, lean ADS quickscoping has been priceless to poke snipers / campers who just couldn't keep up with the speed of it and you reveal so little of your body that even if they will keep up it's very difficult to hit you.

You can gang up on me all you want with your copy paste stats and making fun of me. Couldn't care less if you wanna stay ignorant. What I'm writing is based off playing OSCAR for years and testing every possible mod config which could benefit it. I was going back to RS3 to retest it many many times and the result was always the same. It's just not worth the mod slot. Tagger is just more beneficial to you and the team as it improves your reaction time too. This is the last thing I'm writing. If I was you I would just go and test things.

Also in the end it's down to a playstyle preference. Don't like ADS on OSCAR ? Don't use it. I surely will since in some situations it's priceless to me and fits my playstyle.

Edited October 16, 2019 by Thial

[GhosT 1301]

1 minute ago, Thial said:

What I'm writing is based off playing OSCAR for years and testing every possible mod config which could benefit it.

 

I'm having trouble understanding that.

Because if you would have actually done that, you would know that ADS is just as worthless as RS3. It's just that one of them is a little less worthless than the other, and actually helps the gun a tiny bit.

[CookiePuss 5373]

5 minutes ago, Thial said:

You are a real denial andy. I'm literally saying that after playing this way for years (often vs some of the top players). Yes 80% of the time I'm using hipfire. But that 20% of the time when I needed it, lean ADS quickscoping has been priceless to poke snipers / campers who just couldn't keep up with the speed of it and you reveal so little of your body that even if they will keep up it's very difficult to hit you.

You can gang up on me all you want with your copy paste stats and making fun of me. Couldn't care less if you wanna stay ignorant. What I'm writing is based off playing OSCAR for years and testing every possible mod config which could benefit it. I was going back to RS3 to retest it many many times and the result was always the same. It's just not worth the mod slot. Tagger is just more beneficial to you and the team as it improves your reaction time too. This is the last thing I'm writing. If I was you I would just go and test things.

I apologize if I came across as mocking. Tact has never been my strong suit, but I promise that wasn't my intention. 

 

Though in the end, I will always prefer facts over anecdotal evidence. 

 

And btw, if a sniper is missing you while peaking, they aren't very good at sniping. Especially considering they have more time to react in your scenario vs mine, and snipers being nearly pixel perfect accurate. (This is important because the Oscar has a max damage drop-off range of just 42m if using IR3, so even a leaning target peaking is more than large enough to hit with any weapon other than shotguns)

 

But as I said and as I always will tell people, if something works better for you, whether it's mod setup or a play style, then stick with it.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2019 by CookiePuss