Why are you nerfing the NTEC?

[Abduct / Devote 69]

3 hours ago, illgot said:

Obeya and obir are great for mid to long but horrible at close. 

uh.... you sure we play the same game? OBIR is just a shotgun at CQC... 

[RespectThis 121]

3 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

You do realized that the random burst bloom is a side effect of incorrectly firing at a consistent rate right and firing too fast, outside of the bloom modifier's recovery causing it to bloom?

 

They did bork the HVR though, sadly there is no effective 3ps3 nerf so they decided to burn the gun instead.

 

You do realize thats still adding a gimmick effect to the weapon? You're penalized for using the ntec the way its suppose to be used since this games been released. A tap fire assault rifle. That nerf along with its upcoming nerf as well? Nerfing the ntec isn't going to make your Star come into the spotlight since i know thats something you really want (for some reason). Its really just going to lower the amount of weapons to pick from. Apb was way better before because you could actually use anything. From csg to pmg to ntec, to hvr. Everything was viable and had its place. The ntec has always been a good weapon and for many players a go to weapon. You have to consider the fact that alot of players maybe just like the playstyle of a strong mid range weapon with the possibility of combating cqc weapons if you engage correctly. Many of times i've lost to various pointmen weapons. There are countless players that try and use the ntec and aren't nearly as good as the higher up players who use it. Its not a desk drooling weapon by any means. Honestly i'd say  the oca, pmg, and nfas fill that role. I think nerfing the ntec for a second time (which im sure wont be the last) will put it where the rfp or the obeya rifle was when they got nerfed. Unused until years later (few months for the obeya) when they were buffed. As I said in my copy pasta, APB is an arcade game at heart. It really doesn't need these gimmick mechanics added onto them. Especially on f2p guns you get from contacts and leveling up roles. Nerf meta doesn't solve anything. It really just kills games more than anything. 

[Noob_Guardian 417]

19 hours ago, RespectThis said:

You do realize thats still adding a gimmick effect to the weapon? You're penalized for using the ntec the way its suppose to be used since this games been released. A tap fire assault rifle. That nerf along with its upcoming nerf as well? Nerfing the ntec isn't going to make your Star come into the spotlight since i know thats something you really want (for some reason). Its really just going to lower the amount of weapons to pick from. Apb was way better before because you could actually use anything. From csg to pmg to ntec, to hvr. Everything was viable and had its place. The ntec has always been a good weapon and for many players a go to weapon. You have to consider the fact that alot of players maybe just like the playstyle of a strong mid range weapon with the possibility of combating cqc weapons if you engage correctly. Many of times i've lost to various pointmen weapons. There are countless players that try and use the ntec and aren't nearly as good as the higher up players who use it. Its not a desk drooling weapon by any means. Honestly i'd say  the oca, pmg, and nfas fill that role. I think nerfing the ntec for a second time (which im sure wont be the last) will put it where the rfp or the obeya rifle was when they got nerfed. Unused until years later (few months for the obeya) when they were buffed. As I said in my copy pasta, APB is an arcade game at heart. It really doesn't need these gimmick mechanics added onto them. Especially on f2p guns you get from contacts and leveling up roles. Nerf meta doesn't solve anything. It really just kills games more than anything. 

 

The "gimmick" isnt an issue if you properly tap fire. But if you can't it punishes you. Might I suggest learning to fire correctly?

 

I have no intention of making the STAR be spotlighted. I simply feel that nerfing the NTEC will bring a better balance overall and allow other weapons to be used.

 

Not everything could be used effectively, it wasn't viable, and a number of the weapons weren't capable competitively, lets be honest here. Star was a joke before it got buffed to "useful but not as good as ntec", PMG was a joke before it got buffed, JG was always a worse CSG, still usable but not nearly as good, and DMR was a meme gun (Still is but it's buff made it used more)

 

NTEC has always been a very strong, versatile weapon that people have consistently used over most other mid-range weapons due to how powerful it is. Hence it's nerf. You can't have a gun that causes every other weapon in the weapon role, to not be used, or be considered "inferior" because of its existence. That is NOT balanced. Yes, "not everyone who uses ntec's are good with it" but most time's they're still better off than using any other assault rifle or midrange weapon.

 

APB isn't dead because of a few weapon nerfs. It's dead because the companies didn't add content, implemented horrible game designs (gold lock), and left glitches and exploits rampant without fixing them for months to years (car ram wall glitch, medium movement exploit, broken areas you can't get into normally being exploited). Gladly they at least fixed a handful of broken areas and glitches, it's a shame that many still exist and that many needed changes, came far too late.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Noob_Guardian

[RespectThis 121]

2 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

 

The "gimmic" isnt an issue if you properly tap fire. But if you can't it punishes you. Might I suggest learning to fire correctly?

 

I have no intention of making the STAR be spotlighted. I simply feel that nerfing the NTEC will bring a better balance overall and allow other weapons to be used.

 

Not everything could be used effectively, it wasn't viable, and a number of the weapons weren't capable competitively, lets be honest here. Star was a joke before it got buffed to "useful but not as good as ntec", PMG was a joke before it got buffed, JG was always a worse CSG, still usable but not nearly as good, and DMR was a meme gun (Still is but it's buff made it used more)

 

NTEC has always been a very strong, versatile weapon that people have consistently used over most other mid-range weapons due to how powerful it is. Hence it's nerf. You can't have a gun that causes every other weapon in the weapon role, to not be used, or be considered "inferior" because of its existence. That is NOT balanced. Yes, "not everyone who uses ntec's are good with it" but most time's they're still better off than using any other assault rifle or midrange weapon.

 

APB isn't dead because of a few weapon nerfs. It's dead because the companies didn't add content, implemented horrible game designs (gold lock), and left glitches and exploits rampant without fixing them for months to years (car ram wall glitch, medium movement exploit, broken areas you can't get into normally being exploited). Gladly they at least fixed a handful of broken areas and glitches, it's a shame that many still exist and that many needed changes, came far too late.

Nerfing the ntec won't bring more balance into APB. As i stated before it will just lower the weapon variety. More people will start using the carbine because it can kill pretty efficiently at 50m and is extremely strong in cqc. If your response to that is "they'll look into that then" that is exactly what i mean by nerf meta. Also the PMG wasn't a joke before?

 

Every other weapon in its role? So the star? Its an assault rifle so the only other gun that it can be compared to realistically is the star. Why? Because armas weapons shouldn't be compared to the ntec and the star mainly for the fact that they aren't the foundation of the game. Armas guns should be balanced around the base game weapons and can have silly gimmicks around them that make "fun". For example how the swarm weapons would pull left or right before slowly gaining accuracy like lmgs in Division. Also just because people don't use the obeya or obir doesn't make them inferior. I used the obeya all the time along with the ntec. You really can't act like the obeya is inferior at range. Its extremely accurate, hits hard, and can be very lock people down. The reason most people don't use the obir is because of its slower gameplay nature. Its not a very fast shooting gun and unlike the ntec and obeya you can't tap fire it. The obir does however excel in corner popping.

 

I didn't say apb was dead because of weapon nerfs. I said that nerfing multiple things in games causes them to die. People don't like seeing list after list of nerfs. I honestly don't think people quit that much due to lack of content. APB is played for the customization and the gameplay. No one is waiting for the dlc love story of devil dog and violet prentiess. The horrible game design of gold lock district was for a single event. Despite that terrible decision the event was great.

[CookiePuss 5378]

15 minutes ago, RespectThis said:

 More people will start using the carbine because it can kill pretty efficiently at 50m 

Carbine is what 12? 15 stk at 50m?

[Abduct / Devote 69]

4 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

 

The "gimmic" isnt an issue if you properly tap fire. But if you can't it punishes you. Might I suggest learning to fire correctly?

 

I have no intention of making the STAR be spotlighted. I simply feel that nerfing the NTEC will bring a better balance overall and allow other weapons to be used.

 

Not everything could be used effectively, it wasn't viable, and a number of the weapons weren't capable competitively, lets be honest here. Star was a joke before it got buffed to "useful but not as good as ntec", PMG was a joke before it got buffed, JG was always a worse CSG, still usable but not nearly as good, and DMR was a meme gun (Still is but it's buff made it used more)

 

NTEC has always been a very strong, versatile weapon that people have consistently used over most other mid-range weapons due to how powerful it is. Hence it's nerf. You can't have a gun that causes every other weapon in the weapon role, to not be used, or be considered "inferior" because of its existence. That is NOT balanced. Yes, "not everyone who uses ntec's are good with it" but most time's they're still better off than using any other assault rifle or midrange weapon.

 

APB isn't dead because of a few weapon nerfs. It's dead because the companies didn't add content, implemented horrible game designs (gold lock), and left glitches and exploits rampant without fixing them for months to years (car ram wall glitch, medium movement exploit, broken areas you can't get into normally being exploited). Gladly they at least fixed a handful of broken areas and glitches, it's a shame that many still exist and that many needed changes, came far too late.

You quoted the correct spelling of gimmick and then failed to spell it correctly, and then tell him to learn to fire correctly oh god haha. This is tokp notch memes. PMG was underrated before the buffs, and it was actually really good if you knew how to use it. It felt like more of a mid range weapon than a cqc. Game actually was dying not just because of content, but because of the community that sabotages itself over and over again. 

[Trivirium 62]

This thread: 



But in all seriousness, I think it's the versatility as well, a lot of other people pointed it out a million times before me. 

The Ursus can't jump around corners and hose people down with it's low ROF and 25 rounds. Even though it has the same TTK as the N-Tec 5.

Why should the N-Tec 5 be able to hold 32 rounds, a higher ROF and be waaay more forgiving up close when it's not meant for it?

I'm sure the overall ranged play with the gun will be unaffected, but the usage up close is what needed adjustment.

[Abduct / Devote 69]

11 minutes ago, Trivirium said:

This thread: 



But in all seriousness, I think it's the versatility as well, a lot of other people pointed it out a million times before me. 

The Ursus can't jump around corners and hose people down with it's low ROF and 25 rounds. Even though it has the same TTK as the N-Tec 5.

Why should the N-Tec 5 be able to hold 32 rounds, a higher ROF and be waaay more forgiving up close when it's not meant for it?

I'm sure the overall ranged play with the gun will be unaffected, but the usage up close is what needed adjustment.

They're different guns completely? Ursus is a 5 shot kill, also a JMB. I've also seen/have jump shot around corners with it just fine... but ok. Jump shotting around corners isnt a great consistency anyways, with either gun. Also, nerfing the range by 5m DOES affect the overall ranged play lol. 

[CookiePuss 5378]

40 minutes ago, Trivirium said:

The Ursus can't jump around corners and hose people down 

Lol wut? 

It plays exactly the same in that scenario. 

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by CookiePuss

[Noob_Guardian 417]

3 hours ago, Abduct / Devote said:

You quoted the correct spelling of gimmick and then failed to spell it correctly, and then tell him to learn to fire correctly oh god haha. This is tokp notch memes. PMG was underrated before the buffs, and it was actually really good if you knew how to use it. It felt like more of a mid range weapon than a cqc. Game actually was dying not just because of content, but because of the community that sabotages itself over and over again. 

Eh, i wasn't looking at the spelling. And saying that maybe not tap firing so fast would fix the issue is a legitimate fix so... /shrug

It was underrated to a degree, however it still wasn't as easy to use as the other weapons in it's niche, hence why noone really used it.

 

I mean, depending on what instances you mean about the self sabotage yes, however content wise, it has lacked as well.

[Trivirium 62]

2 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Lol wut? 

It plays exactly the same in that scenario. 

 

 

 

I bet to differ, I can't jump and hose with the N-Tec 7 as well as I can with the N-Tec 5. The High ROF really helps with the odd missing, that and the Ursus doesn't have the choice of removing hunting sight 3 so I always have a harder time spraying while moving, Also I don't use mobility sling/cj on Ursus, only IR3.

So I'm still at a disadvantage. The normal N-Tec is too usable.

2 hours ago, Abduct / Devote said:

They're different guns completely? Ursus is a 5 shot kill, also a JMB. I've also seen/have jump shot around corners with it just fine... but ok. Jump shotting around corners isnt a great consistency anyways, with either gun. Also, nerfing the range by 5m DOES affect the overall ranged play lol. 

The 5m difference is almost negligible, the normal N-Tec can outrange an Ursus due to the Ursus' harsh damage drop off. Normal N-Tec overdamages as it is so you'll still 6STK at your normal ranges. Just not overdamage at further ranges.

[Noob_Guardian 417]

4 hours ago, RespectThis said:

Nerfing the ntec won't bring more balance into APB. As i stated before it will just lower the weapon variety. More people will start using the carbine because it can kill pretty efficiently at 50m and is extremely strong in cqc. If your response to that is "they'll look into that then" that is exactly what i mean by nerf meta. Also the PMG wasn't a joke before?

 

Every other weapon in its role? So the star? Its an assault rifle so the only other gun that it can be compared to realistically is the star. Why? Because armas weapons shouldn't be compared to the ntec and the star mainly for the fact that they aren't the foundation of the game. Armas guns should be balanced around the base game weapons and can have silly gimmicks around them that make "fun". For example how the swarm weapons would pull left or right before slowly gaining accuracy like lmgs in Division. Also just because people don't use the obeya or obir doesn't make them inferior. I used the obeya all the time along with the ntec. You really can't act like the obeya is inferior at range. Its extremely accurate, hits hard, and can be very lock people down. The reason most people don't use the obir is because of its slower gameplay nature. Its not a very fast shooting gun and unlike the ntec and obeya you can't tap fire it. The obir does however excel in corner popping.

 

I didn't say apb was dead because of weapon nerfs. I said that nerfing multiple things in games causes them to die. People don't like seeing list after list of nerfs. I honestly don't think people quit that much due to lack of content. APB is played for the customization and the gameplay. No one is waiting for the dlc love story of devil dog and violet prentiess. The horrible game design of gold lock district was for a single event. Despite that terrible decision the event was great.

 

Not everyone will go carbine tho? The only people who would go carbine are the same people who use carbine and ntec often to begin with. The extremely competitive type "i must win people" will always move on to some other weapon that they deem ez for winning. IF that's the case that's fine, however not everyone is going to go carbine.

 

Sure lets compare the NTEC to the star shall we? Better bloom recovery, better mid-range capabilities, better ttk, and better damage. Worse but easily managable recoil, and worse bloom full auto, but noone pays attention to that anyways when you can spray from a corner sub 7m. Overall far better than the star, its only other f2p competitor, which HAS been buffed already to try to compete better against it, but still falls short due to ttk, and bloom recovery.

 

Obeya has a higher ttk than ntec, its meant for longer ranges then ntec, and competes somwhat decently against ntec sub 50m. However, most people leveling the semi auto role, will use carbine unless they are playing waterfront and want to play those longer ranges. Obeya is rarely used in financial for a reason and obir is even more rarely used in financial. You'll see both used in waterfront, but you'll see NTEC used in all districts because it's simply better and easier to use and fits the maps easier. Not an issue there but when you look at the only other gun being deemed, litteraly unusable because of the state of the ntec, and the closest somewhat "f2p" FAR which has the same recovery, but better accuracy than the star, is still not used. We all also know that if the FAR or STAR were nearly as strong or good as the ntec, all the cash cows, would have bought it and be using it. Like they did the C9 and ATAC.

 

The event was alright, but it was horribly managed and the top tier of rewards was near impossible if you had any semblance of a life. I can't say gold lock was good at all, not after losing half the games population in a mere 3 months from it.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Noob_Guardian

[Abduct / Devote 69]

47 minutes ago, Trivirium said:

I bet to differ, I can't jump and hose with the N-Tec 7 as well as I can with the N-Tec 5. The High ROF really helps with the odd missing, that and the Ursus doesn't have the choice of removing hunting sight 3 so I always have a harder time spraying while moving, Also I don't use mobility sling/cj on Ursus, only IR3.

So I'm still at a disadvantage. The normal N-Tec is too usable.

The 5m difference is almost negligible, the normal N-Tec can outrange an Ursus due to the Ursus' harsh damage drop off. Normal N-Tec overdamages as it is so you'll still 6STK at your normal ranges. Just not overdamage at further ranges.

first point: thats your problem, not the guns.

second point: yeah, 5 m is actually pretty negligible considering this is about the ranged part of gameplay when most complaints are about the close range prowess. Not sure what you mean by "overdamages" here? 

[RespectThis 121]

1 hour ago, Noob_Guardian said:

 

Not everyone will go carbine tho? The only people who would go carbine are the same people who use carbine and ntec often to begin with. The extremely competitive type "i must win people" will always move on to some other weapon that they deem ez for winning. IF that's the case that's fine, however not everyone is going to go carbine.

 

Sure lets compare the NTEC to the star shall we? Better bloom recovery, better mid-range capabilities, better ttk, and better damage. Worse but easily managable recoil, and worse bloom full auto, but noone pays attention to that anyways when you can spray from a corner sub 7m. Overall far better than the star, its only other f2p competitor, which HAS been buffed already to try to compete better against it, but still falls short due to ttk, and bloom recovery.

 

Obeya has a higher ttk than ntec, its meant for longer ranges then ntec, and competes somwhat decently against ntec sub 50m. However, most people leveling the semi auto role, will use carbine unless they are playing waterfront and want to play those longer ranges. Obeya is rarely used in financial for a reason and obir is even more rarely used in financial. You'll see both used in waterfront, but you'll see NTEC used in all districts because it's simply better and easier to use and fits the maps easier. Not an issue there but when you look at the only other gun being deemed, litteraly unusable because of the state of the ntec, and the closest somewhat "f2p" FAR which has the same recovery, but better accuracy than the star, is still not used. We all also know that if the FAR or STAR were nearly as strong or good as the ntec, all the cash cows, would have bought it and be using it. Like they did the C9 and ATAC.

 

The event was alright, but it was horribly managed and the top tier of rewards was near impossible if you had any semblance of a life. I can't say gold lock was good at all, not after losing half the games population in a mere 3 months from it.

 Obviously carbine users will go carbine? Again the issue with your argument is "they'll go to another weapon they deem easy". So then what happens when everyone starts crying on the forums about it? We nerfing that to? Sure, everyone may not go carbine but its good in both mid range and close range which is what people will look for. There are also other guns like the oscar which is way more annoying than the ntec will ever be.

 

How is being able to kill someone spraying at 7m an issue? They player model is the size of your crosshair at max bloom... Yes they buffed the star and made it better. Does it surpass the ntec? No. Did it make it stronger? Yes. Should they tweak the star more to see how it preforms? Probably. Thats what i mean about not nerfing the ntec. You don't have to nerf it (TWICE now) to bring other guns into the spotlight. Slight tweaks here and there to the star could easily make it preform better. You have to keep in mind though that the star is suppose to be the starting gun. Its suppose to be easy but not extremely destructive. 

 

"Obeya is rarely used in financial." Thats a good chuckle. Plenty of people use obeya in Financial. Maybe not so much now since the hitreg is awful and servers have been up and down. Also the population being 1/20th of what it use to be. The obeya is much easier to use than the ntec to be honest. Its just tap firing. You can't really shoot out of control and its bloom recover is very quick. Ntec can get out of control, its terrible full auto unless you're body checking someone, and has a specific tap fire to control it. Also if the Star was as good as the Ntec cash cows would just rent the 3 slot one from contacts.

Edited October 7, 2019 by RespectThis

[Trivirium 62]

43 minutes ago, Abduct / Devote said:

first point: thats your problem, not the guns.

second point: yeah, 5 m is actually pretty negligible considering this is about the ranged part of gameplay when most complaints are about the close range prowess. Not sure what you mean by "overdamages" here? 

So what you're saying is then, the n-tec should have only 6 bullets and as much recoil as the HVR and if you miss, it's your problem and not the guns?

Poor logic. We're looking at the overall usability of something. 

My second point is the N-Tec 5 does 180 damage a shot, a person has 1000 hp, it's 6STK so you're doing 1080 damage to kill. 

In those 5m, that 80 damage will be spread across the board to still kill your target in 6STK. That's where the ranged bias till become more noticeable when vs something like the Ursus, which has a much steeper damage dropoff.

The Ursus for comparison only does 210 damage per shot. Resulting in a 5STK, but only just BARELY. So much as Kev 1 can defeat the Ursus' 5 STK and theirfore making it a 6STK which ups the TTK retardedly due to the slow ROF.


Please tell me more now the N-Tec is not more usable and how it's just my skill.

[Abduct / Devote 69]

1 minute ago, Trivirium said:

So what you're saying is then, the n-tec should have only 6 bullets and as much recoil as the HVR and if you miss, it's your problem and not the guns?

Poor logic. We're looking at the overall usability of something. 

My second point is the N-Tec 5 does 180 damage a shot, a person has 1000 hp, it's 6STK so you're doing 1080 damage to kill. 

In those 5m, that 80 damage will be spread across the board to still kill your target in 6STK. That's where the ranged bias till become more noticeable when vs something like the Ursus, which has a much steeper damage dropoff.

The Ursus for comparison only does 210 damage per shot. Resulting in a 5STK, but only just BARELY. So much as Kev 1 can defeat the Ursus' 5 STK and theirfore making it a 6STK which ups the TTK retardedly due to the slow ROF.


Please tell me more now the N-Tec is not more usable and how it's just my skill.

What the hell are you on about? You're one of the most illogical posters here right now. You're telling me that somehow your issue of not being able to jump shot around corners with one gun but the other is basically the game's imbalance issue? What? No, dude, that's all you. Also, it's not even smart to do if you're not capable of doing it consistently and smoothly.

The ntec drop off will start at 35m with these changes, that's pretty bad for an AR. You're gonna tell me that's not going to impact it at all though apparently. The scenarios you posted, like kevlar (LOL ok) are very specific and unusual, and not a good basis to nerf a weapon because of. You are saying that the NTEC should be nerfed because the URSUS cannot do exactly the same things. You basically just want it to be the same gun lol? 

Your inability to jump shot corners was my "skill" argument btw. You're bringing up points that have 0 relevance and very niche situations to attempt to justify a point you already lost when you admitted, and I quote: "I bet to differ, I can't jump and hose with the N-Tec 7 as well as I can with the N-Tec 5." This is what I was referring to, when I said "first point" because that was the "first thing" you said. 

 

Please tell me more now how kevlar (which is not that commonly used) is what makes your argument so valid? Both the regular ntec and the ursus are different ARs, meant to perform differently. 

[Trivirium 62]

Just now, Abduct / Devote said:

What the hell are you on about? You're one of the most illogical posters here right now. You're telling me that somehow your issue of not being able to jump shot around corners with one gun but the other is basically the game's imbalance issue? What? No, dude, that's all you. Also, it's not even smart to do if you're not capable of doing it consistently and smoothly.

The ntec drop off will start at 35m with these changes, that's pretty bad for an AR. You're gonna tell me that's not going to impact it at all though apparently. The scenarios you posted, like kevlar (LOL ok) are very specific and unusual, and not a good basis to nerf a weapon because of. You are saying that the NTEC should be nerfed because the URSUS cannot do exactly the same things. You basically just want it to be the same gun lol? 

Your inability to jump shot corners was my "skill" argument btw. You're bringing up points that have 0 relevance and very niche situations to attempt to justify a point you already lost when you admitted, and I quote: "I bet to differ, I can't jump and hose with the N-Tec 7 as well as I can with the N-Tec 5." This is what I was referring to, when I said "first point" because that was the "first thing" you said. 

 

Please tell me more now how kevlar (which is not that commonly used) is what makes your argument so valid? Both the regular ntec and the ursus are different ARs, meant to perform differently. 

I didn't say that the changes were good, I do think though, the range in respect to damage drop off needs to be looked at, as for ROF and clip size, I think they're great changes because do you honestly know how smart it sounds to be like "Yeah, I was using a CQC weapon and got beat out by a dude jumping around a corner mid air with an AR."?

They're making people use something other than an AR at CQC. 

Skill =/ usability in all scenarios. N-Tec is effective across the board and doesn't seem to have a weakness besides really long range. Sure an OCA can out TTK a N-Tec but why should it have to be that counter? You're essentially over "meta"ing the n-tec to be to goto gun. 

The Ursus doesn't have the same usability due to the smaller clip size and slower ROF and perma HS 3

People don't have aimbot or perfect aim so if you're consistently TTKing while jumping around corners full fire you might need to lay off the pills, seek addictive help or just seriously reconsider your life.

Clearly N-Tec mains can't take a change in meta for the better.

[Abduct / Devote 69]

23 minutes ago, Trivirium said:

I didn't say that the changes were good, I do think though, the range in respect to damage drop off needs to be looked at, as for ROF and clip size, I think they're great changes because do you honestly know how smart it sounds to be like "Yeah, I was using a CQC weapon and got beat out by a dude jumping around a corner mid air with an AR."?

They're making people use something other than an AR at CQC. 

Skill =/ usability in all scenarios. N-Tec is effective across the board and doesn't seem to have a weakness besides really long range. Sure an OCA can out TTK a N-Tec but why should it have to be that counter? You're essentially over "meta"ing the n-tec to be to goto gun. 

The Ursus doesn't have the same usability due to the smaller clip size and slower ROF and perma HS 3

People don't have aimbot or perfect aim so if you're consistently TTKing while jumping around corners full fire you might need to lay off the pills, seek addictive help or just seriously reconsider your life.

Clearly N-Tec mains can't take a change in meta for the better.

What do you not understand: YOU SAID THAT YOU SPECIFICALLY COULD NOT CQC JUMP SHOT AROUND CORNERS WITH THE URSUS BUT COULD WITH THE ORIGINAL NTEC, SO IT MADE THE URSUS TERRIBLE COMPARED TO THE ORIGINAL NTEC.

 

I responded to that point, and you are bringing up other crap, and I still comment on those. Now you're bringing up AIMBOTS. We're talking situations of real players, real skill involved. The "skill" scenario you are talking about, and I was addressing, DOES have to do with your skill level and issue lol. Just because you can/can't do something does not mean that's the case for the whole playerbase. No game is balanced based off of 1 person, nor should it be. 

 

I don't main the ntec btw, I used the ursus more than it, but I'm a rifleman main... I had an easier time cqcing with OBIR than I did with either ntec. I guess I have to use CAPS in order for you to read the points correctly, but you probably still won't respond to them correctly in the end. Stop making excuses. 

[Trivirium 62]

33 minutes ago, Abduct / Devote said:

What do you not understand: YOU SAID THAT YOU SPECIFICALLY COULD NOT CQC JUMP SHOT AROUND CORNERS WITH THE URSUS BUT COULD WITH THE ORIGINAL NTEC, SO IT MADE THE URSUS TERRIBLE COMPARED TO THE ORIGINAL NTEC.

 

I responded to that point, and you are bringing up other crap, and I still comment on those. Now you're bringing up AIMBOTS. We're talking situations of real players, real skill involved. The "skill" scenario you are talking about, and I was addressing, DOES have to do with your skill level and issue lol. Just because you can/can't do something does not mean that's the case for the whole playerbase. No game is balanced based off of 1 person, nor should it be. 

 

I don't main the ntec btw, I used the ursus more than it, but I'm a rifleman main... I had an easier time cqcing with OBIR than I did with either ntec. I guess I have to use CAPS in order for you to read the points correctly, but you probably still won't respond to them correctly in the end. Stop making excuses. 

Then if you CQC w OBIR then maybe the OBIR needs balancing too? It's not meant for that role lol...

And yeah, I found it harder to jump and spray with the Ursus than the N-Tec 5, not only did I find it harder, but I showed you how it could be harder, that's why I brought up ROF and TTKs with STKs. 

Clip size matters too when spraying for infinite amounts of time.

Aimbots was a sarcastic point to illustrate how silly it is to use jump shooting as a legit CQC tactic. (Jump shooing is a legit tactic with specific guns, Snipers in part along with shotguns, but I feel the N-Tec has no place to take part in that playstyle for CQC usability)

I feel like you're going above and beyond stupid right now and are ignoring all data that I shovel to you. 

Unless you respond with something worthwhile I'm done and I can consider what I've needed to say, to be said.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Trivirium

[Clarie 78]

To make it short: Only adjust the jump accuracy 

Edited October 7, 2019 by Mikarity

[Noob_Guardian 417]

On 10/7/2019 at 4:32 AM, RespectThis said:

 Obviously carbine users will go carbine? Again the issue with your argument is "they'll go to another weapon they deem easy". So then what happens when everyone starts crying on the forums about it? We nerfing that to? Sure, everyone may not go carbine but its good in both mid range and close range which is what people will look for. There are also other guns like the oscar which is way more annoying than the ntec will ever be.

 

How is being able to kill someone spraying at 7m an issue? They player model is the size of your crosshair at max bloom... Yes they buffed the star and made it better. Does it surpass the ntec? No. Did it make it stronger? Yes. Should they tweak the star more to see how it preforms? Probably. Thats what i mean about not nerfing the ntec. You don't have to nerf it (TWICE now) to bring other guns into the spotlight. Slight tweaks here and there to the star could easily make it preform better. You have to keep in mind though that the star is suppose to be the starting gun. Its suppose to be easy but not extremely destructive. 

 

"Obeya is rarely used in financial." Thats a good chuckle. Plenty of people use obeya in Financial. Maybe not so much now since the hitreg is awful and servers have been up and down. Also the population being 1/20th of what it use to be. The obeya is much easier to use than the ntec to be honest. Its just tap firing. You can't really shoot out of control and its bloom recover is very quick. Ntec can get out of control, its terrible full auto unless you're body checking someone, and has a specific tap fire to control it. Also if the Star was as good as the Ntec cash cows would just rent the 3 slot one from contacts.

Probably not. Considering the game is "mostly" in a balanced state with only a handful of really underpowered weapons, and an even smaller number of overtuned weapons. Yes oscar is annoying, but it's not overpowered and it's easier to out ttk.

 

You do realize that simply because a weapon is a starting weapon, doesn't mean that it should automatically suck and be worse than the only other f2p assault rifle in game? No amount of buffs will make the star perform as well as the ntec unless they gave it the exact same bloom recovery speed as the NTEC and made it an NTEC 2.0. That's what they were avoiding and why they buffed the star to have the same recovery as the FAR which had a better one than the STAR but not as good as the NTEC. (And yes, you can nerf a weapon several times and rework it until you feel that it's in a good state.)

 

  It's so much easier that ex-ntec players scamper towards the obeya like its gold. Obeya has the same principals as the NTEC with tapfiring. The only difference is you can fire faster with the ntec, which is why its punished more for failing to do right, but it's more cqc hence its faster ttk. Plus the obeya has more range so has to be more accurate. They fill a somewhat niche in mid range, until you get far range where the obeya clearly wins with it's htk and ttk, and it's ttk becomes similar to that of an HVR (8-9htk = ~1.5s). The TTK of the obeya helps prevent it from competing too effectively in cqc, unlike the ntec.

 

Merged.

 

23 hours ago, Abduct / Devote said:

What the hell are you on about? You're one of the most illogical posters here right now. You're telling me that somehow your issue of not being able to jump shot around corners with one gun but the other is basically the game's imbalance issue? What? No, dude, that's all you. Also, it's not even smart to do if you're not capable of doing it consistently and smoothly.

The ntec drop off will start at 35m with these changes, that's pretty bad for an AR. You're gonna tell me that's not going to impact it at all though apparently. The scenarios you posted, like kevlar (LOL ok) are very specific and unusual, and not a good basis to nerf a weapon because of. You are saying that the NTEC should be nerfed because the URSUS cannot do exactly the same things. You basically just want it to be the same gun lol? 

Your inability to jump shot corners was my "skill" argument btw. You're bringing up points that have 0 relevance and very niche situations to attempt to justify a point you already lost when you admitted, and I quote: "I bet to differ, I can't jump and hose with the N-Tec 7 as well as I can with the N-Tec 5." This is what I was referring to, when I said "first point" because that was the "first thing" you said. 

 

Please tell me more now how kevlar (which is not that commonly used) is what makes your argument so valid? Both the regular ntec and the ursus are different ARs, meant to perform differently. 

35m? Uh, AR's have 50m range, or did they finally drop it to 45m like it had been mentioned? Making the NTEC to be 40m after change? Or are you just making 35m up

[RespectThis 121]

2 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Probably not. Considering the game is "mostly" in a balanced state with only a handful of really underpowered weapons, and an even smaller number of overtuned weapons. Yes oscar is annoying, but it's not overpowered and it's easier to out ttk.

 

You do realize that simply because a weapon is a starting weapon, doesn't mean that it should automatically suck and be worse than the only other f2p assault rifle in game? No amount of buffs will make the star perform as well as the ntec unless they gave it the exact same bloom recovery speed as the NTEC and made it an NTEC 2.0. That's what they were avoiding and why they buffed the star to have the same recovery as the FAR which had a better one than the STAR but not as good as the NTEC. (And yes, you can nerf a weapon several times and rework it until you feel that it's in a good state.)

 

  It's so much easier that ex-ntec players scamper towards the obeya like its gold. Obeya has the same principals as the NTEC with tapfiring. The only difference is you can fire faster with the ntec, which is why its punished more for failing to do right, but it's more cqc hence its faster ttk. Plus the obeya has more range so has to be more accurate. They fill a somewhat niche in mid range, until you get far range where the obeya clearly wins with it's htk and ttk, and it's ttk becomes similar to that of an HVR (8-9htk = ~1.5s). The TTK of the obeya helps prevent it from competing too effectively in cqc, unlike the ntec.

 

 

 

You think that oscar is easier to out ttk than the ntec? Funny. The oscar excels is high rof, mobility, and corner popping. Its much easier to out ttk and ntec than the oscar is due to having to shoot at a specific rate to keep the ntec in control.

 

I never said the starting weapon had to be bad. Had you read what i said i specifically stated "Should they tweak the star to see how it preforms? Probably." Then you'd know i didn't say it had to be bad. I'm actually saying the opposite and saying they should tweak it so it stands out more. Just because its not better than the ntec doesn't mean its trash. People in this community need to understand that. Its mind boggling that just because weapon A doesn't preform bettter or on the same level as weapon B that we need to gut B. Its what adds variety to the game. No i don't think you should start with an extremely strong gun (the star) because at that point why would you even branch out to other things? Its meant to be simple in mechanics so you can full auto it and get kills within 30m. You can't full auto the ntec like that at all. Why? Because its not the starting gun. You're required to tap fire it to get kills at range. Hence why it blooms at a much faster rate.

 

Then there are other arguments like why use the ATAC over the ntec? Becasue the atac is better in cqc and it also holds its own in close to mid ranged combat. I honestly wonder at times if im playing the same game as some other people. These guns aren't as bad as people claim them to be. Nerfing the Ntec isn't going to make the game more enjoyable for you. You'll just end up getting smacked by the next gun that comes into the spotlight. As Abduct stated before the community is what hurts this game more than anything. From crying on the forums about nerf this nerf that to the cheaters that run rampant making players uninstall the game.

 

The same principles of tap firing. So like Carbine, Ntec, Obeya, Fbw, 45, ISSR, etc. All of those but ONE do not suffer from extreme bloom when tap fired quickly. Apart from that, I don't understand why you think compared to the ntec the Obeya is useless. Its an extremely powerful gun and it does beat out the ntec with ease. Even within the ntecs effective range its strong. You can't just base everything off a "Lets stand in the middle of the street and shoot at each other" basis. Thats not apb at all. Most obeya players either use height advantage or will use corners.

Edited October 8, 2019 by RespectThis

[illgot 379]

On 10/6/2019 at 6:11 PM, Trivirium said:

But in all seriousness, I think it's the versatility as well, a lot of other people pointed it out a million times before me. 

The Ursus can't jump around corners and hose people down with it's low ROF and 25 rounds. Even though it has the same TTK as the N-Tec 5.

Why should the N-Tec 5 be able to hold 32 rounds, a higher ROF and be waaay more forgiving up close when it's not meant for it?

I'm sure the overall ranged play with the gun will be unaffected, but the usage up close is what needed adjustment.

the viability in CQC is the primary reason why the ntec over shadows every other AR in the game.  The ntec is too versatile, why handicap yourself with an AR with less range, less accuracy, or worse close up?

 

Ntec does not need a massive nerf but it can not be as good lose up, master of medium, and decent at long ranges (though still useless at sniper ranges).

Edited October 8, 2019 by illgot

[Noob_Guardian 417]

On 10/7/2019 at 10:52 PM, RespectThis said:

You think that oscar is easier to out ttk than the ntec? Funny. The oscar excels is high rof, mobility, and corner popping. Its much easier to out ttk and ntec than the oscar is due to having to shoot at a specific rate to keep the ntec in control.

 

I never said the starting weapon had to be bad. Had you read what i said i specifically stated "Should they tweak the star to see how it preforms? Probably." Then you'd know i didn't say it had to be bad. I'm actually saying the opposite and saying they should tweak it so it stands out more. Just because its not better than the ntec doesn't mean its trash. People in this community need to understand that. Its mind boggling that just because weapon A doesn't preform bettter or on the same level as weapon B that we need to gut B. Its what adds variety to the game. No i don't think you should start with an extremely strong gun (the star) because at that point why would you even branch out to other things? Its meant to be simple in mechanics so you can full auto it and get kills within 30m. You can't full auto the ntec like that at all. Why? Because its not the starting gun. You're required to tap fire it to get kills at range. Hence why it blooms at a much faster rate.

 

Then there are other arguments like why use the ATAC over the ntec? Becasue the atac is better in cqc and it also holds its own in close to mid ranged combat. I honestly wonder at times if im playing the same game as some other people. These guns aren't as bad as people claim them to be. Nerfing the Ntec isn't going to make the game more enjoyable for you. You'll just end up getting smacked by the next gun that comes into the spotlight. As Abduct stated before the community is what hurts this game more than anything. From crying on the forums about nerf this nerf that to the cheaters that run rampant making players uninstall the game.

 

The same principles of tap firing. So like Carbine, Ntec, Obeya, Fbw, 45, ISSR, etc. All of those but ONE do not suffer from extreme bloom when tap fired quickly. Apart from that, I don't understand why you think compared to the ntec the Obeya is useless. Its an extremely powerful gun and it does beat out the ntec with ease. Even within the ntecs effective range its strong. You can't just base everything off a "Lets stand in the middle of the street and shoot at each other" basis. Thats not apb at all. Most obeya players either use height advantage or will use corners.

I didn't say obeya was useless. It's pretty good for a midrange gun, but weaker in cqc engagements than the ntec, and better at far longer ranges than ntec. It however also has a higher base ttk than the ntec, and far less ammo than the ntec as well. Overall obeya is better for mid-long range engagements than the ntec, but ntec is better in cqc-mid generally. (because that's their niches :X)

 

Oscar is easier to out ttk. It has a higher TTK and missing punishes it more. Sure, you have to put up with it's movement speed jank, which is annoying, but it's also manageable just use a spray weapon .

Edited October 9, 2019 by Noob_Guardian

[RespectThis 121]

1 hour ago, Noob_Guardian said:

I didn't say obeya was useless. It's pretty good for a midrange gun, but weaker in cqc engagements than the ntec, and better at far longer ranges than ntec. It however also has a higher base ttk than the ntec, and far less ammo than the ntec as well. Overall obeya is better for mid-long range engagements than the ntec, but ntec is better in cqc-mid generally. (because that's their niches :X)

 

Oscar is easier to out ttk. It has a higher TTK and missing punishes it more. Sure, you have to put up with it's movement speed jank, which is annoying, but it's also manageable just use a spray weapon .

The Ntec is good at mid range yes. CQC? No not really. Within 15 or even 20m you have to worry about OCA, PMG, Aces, Manic, Nfas, CSG, etc. Good at cqc isn't holding down left click and body checking someone.

 

What spray weapon are you suggesting you use? Hopefully you aren't going to say the ntec because its not a spray weapon. If your response is Nfas, Oca, or shaw. All of those can easily counter the ntec as well.

Edited October 9, 2019 by RespectThis