-Rachel- 129 Posted June 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Zascha said: Because it isn't the human body that is the problem. It's the sexual context people object to. Sex is beautiful too, I still don't understand the problem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Excalibur! 207 Posted June 9, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Zascha said: For one, it's not censoring. It's a guide-rail to keep folks out of the gutter. When I was in college and I took Life Drawing classes with nude Models, we students learned real quick the difference between Art and Pornography. You immediately understand to respect the model and their body in such an environment, and you are utterly forced to find what is interesting about the human body outside of sexual motifs. I doubt very seriously even half of the APB community has matured with their expression, and I can tell very simply by what it is they create. It isn't art. It's pornography. And quite frankly, most of it is a tracing of some hentai character, which they didn't even create themselves. When I was a kid, I drew Ninja Turtles and Batman. Kids these days are drawing hentai characters. It's a shame, really... But whatever. The problem with peoples' "artistic expression" isn't that they can do it. The problem is we can't turn it off. No one wants to stifle anyone else's expression, regardless of how distasteful we think it is (and who cares if you don't like our opinion of it.) But it's not like we can walk around in Social or any other district and not see these things. The solution to this would be to allow for the creator to peg the work as "Adult 18+" or something compliant with that standard, and have it referenced to another user's In-Game Option for allowing or not allowing such content material to be rendered in-game. We have a Chat Filter for the same purposes. Some people don't want to read others' profanity. So they just turn the filter On, and problem solved. There needs to be something like that for Symbol and even Character Outfits. It's just a box you mark for each Symbol and each Outfit slot. If you check the box, the game automatically flags the content as "Adult 18+" When someone else, me for instance, who has their In-Game Option Filter turned on, what we see will be a blank white space for Symbols and a default character render for Outfits (similar to the one we see when we load up the game.) Problem solved. Really? Okay mr nude artist, would you point what exactly makes a drawing pornographic, and what makes a drawing not pornographic? Have you touched yourself after drawing the nude model at school? Honest answer pls. 23 minutes ago, -Rachel- said: The human body is beautiful, I'm not sure why nudity is such an issue. 9 minutes ago, -Rachel- said: Sex is beautiful too, I still don't understand the problem. What made you change your mind so fast from "feminine features are women objectification" to "the body and sex is beautiful"??? I am honestly curious. Edited June 9, 2018 by LuzExtinguido Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zascha 47 Posted June 9, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, LuzExtinguido said: Really? Okay mr nude artist, would you point what exactly makes a drawing pornographic, and what not makes a drawing not pornographic? Reveal hidden contents Have you touched yourself after drawing the nude model at school? Honest answer pls. Have you ever stood in front of a total stranger who is completely naked with the intent to draw a likeness of their naked body and held the responsibility entrusted to you by them that you will not create an image which objectifies them and creates within their mind, shame? If you haven't, then I advise you to take a Life Drawing class at a local University and you can learn the difference for yourself really fast. You can audit the class for free if the teacher allows it. Otherwise, I don't see how you have any room to question what I said on this subject. Edited June 9, 2018 by Zascha Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Excalibur! 207 Posted June 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, Zascha said: Have you ever stood in front of a total stranger who is completely naked with the intent to draw a likeness of their naked body and held the responsibility entrusted to you by them that you will not create an image which objectifies them and creates within their mind, shame? If you haven't, then I advise you to take a Life Drawing class at a local University and you can learn the difference for yourself really fast. You can audit the class for free if the teacher allows it. Otherwise, I don't see how you have any room to question what I said on this subject. So you choose not answering neither of both question. Well fine... Your opinion is subjective then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zascha 47 Posted June 9, 2018 14 minutes ago, -Rachel- said: Sex is beautiful too, I still don't understand the problem. Because you're trying to force everyone inside your interpretation of this topic. I never said people shouldn't be able to do it. I don't like it, and I personally think the images people make in-game are juvenile, grotesque, immature, and pornographic. I don't really care if people feel judged by that--it's no different than someone thinking I'm stupid or mean or whatever other judgment they make on my own character by disagreeing with me. Whether they agree with me or not, they have a right to express their own opinion on the matter as well. They're free to do so, as far as I'm concerned, and I'm all right with them making whatever symbols they want to make. But we need to have an option of filtering. I've laid out a plan which allows for that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-Rachel- 129 Posted June 9, 2018 11 minutes ago, LuzExtinguido said: What made you change your mind so fast from "feminine features are women objectification" to "the body and sex is beautiful"??? I am honestly curious. Different moods. But ultimately, I kind of feel both ways. 3 minutes ago, Zascha said: Because you're trying to force everyone inside your interpretation of this topic. I never said people shouldn't be able to do it. I don't like it, and I personally think the images people make in-game are juvenile, grotesque, immature, and pornographic. I don't really care if people feel judged by that--it's no different than someone thinking I'm stupid or mean or whatever other judgment they make on my own character by disagreeing with me. Whether they agree with me or not, they have a right to express their own opinion on the matter as well. They're free to do so, as far as I'm concerned, and I'm all right with them making whatever symbols they want to make. But we need to have an option of filtering. I've laid out a plan which allows for that. I'm not a fan of objectification, but tasteful sex and nudity isn't an issue for me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Excalibur! 207 Posted June 9, 2018 (edited) Well, i feel entitled enough to teach kids to learn about life: Here is what pornography means. "... intended to cause sexual excitement". So basically that drawings, art, movies or any other media (audio or visual) that causes you to get sexually excited could be labeled as pornography -intended or not-, aka is totally subjective. That kids, is the trick. 9 minutes ago, -Rachel- said: Different moods. But ultimately, I kind of feel both ways. I'm not a fan of objectification, but tasteful sex and nudity isn't an issue for me. Double standarts. Edited June 9, 2018 by LuzExtinguido Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zascha 47 Posted June 9, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, LuzExtinguido said: So you choose not answering neither of both question. Well fine... Your opinion is subjective then. No shit, my opinion is subjective. All opinions are subjective, genius. The reasons for having an opinion aren't. I didn't imagine the scenario where a total stranger was tasked with modeling in the nude before an entire class of 15 students who were charged to treat the model with respect concerning their humanity. Every University with such practices regarding Life Drawing exercises maintains the same standard because there is a clear line which separates art and pornography. That line is drawn uniquely and in concert between the model, the observer, and the figure of authority whose job it is to maintain the expectation. I can tell you haven't been in this situation and you have no idea to what I'm speaking of in regards to respect for someone's humanity. Speaking with you on this matter is like flushing a million dollar lottery ticket down the toilet. Since you haven't answered my question, then I can only assume you have no idea what I'm talking about, which means you have never looked at a total stranger without objectifying them--which means you have no idea what I'm talking about. So your arguments are superfluous. 13 minutes ago, -Rachel- said: I'm not a fan of objectification, but tasteful sex and nudity isn't an issue for me. It doesn't have to be. You can leave your Filter Option, Off. That's why it should be there. Edited June 9, 2018 by Zascha Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramell 14 Posted June 9, 2018 (edited) Why does APB allow topless male char rather than female? Edited June 9, 2018 by ramell Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Excalibur! 207 Posted June 9, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Zascha said: No shit, my opinion is subjective. All opinions are subjective, genius. The reasons for having an opinion aren't. I didn't imagine the scenario where a total stranger was tasked with modeling in the nude before an entire class of 15 students who were charged to treat the model with respect concerning their humanity. Every University with such practices regarding Life Drawing exercises maintains the same standard because there is a clear line which separates art and pronography. That line is drawn uniquely and in concert between the model, the observer, and the figure of authority whose job it is to maintain the expectation. I can tell you haven't been in this situation and you have no idea to what I'm speaking of in regards to respect for someone's humanity. Speaking with you on this matter is like flushing a million dollar lottery ticket down the toilet. Since you haven't answered my question, then I can only assume you have no idea what I'm talking about, which means you have never looked at a total stranger without objectifying them--which means you have no idea what I'm talking about. So your arguments are superfluous. I had to say "opinion" because thats it, not a fact. But i could say "your fact is subjective". What happens in your university is that the subjective opinion of your superiors or teachers limit your experience in class, i really doubt your model was wide leg open... you may call nudity at showing tidies at most lol. Also read: 11 minutes ago, LuzExtinguido said: Well, i feel entitled enough to teach kids to learn about life: Here is what pornography means. "... intended to cause sexual excitement". So basically that drawings, art, movies or any other media (audio or visual) that causes you to get sexually excited could be labeled as pornography -intended or not-, aka is totally subjective. That kids, is the trick. Edited June 9, 2018 by LuzExtinguido Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zascha 47 Posted June 9, 2018 Just now, LuzExtinguido said: I had to say "opinion" because thats it, not a fact. But i could say "your fact is subjective". What happens in your university is that the subjective opinion of your superiors or teachers limit your experience in class, i really doubt your model was wide leg open... you may call nudity at showing tidies at most lol. You're a waste of time. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Excalibur! 207 Posted June 9, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Zascha said: You're a waste of time. I kindly accept your concession Atte, The Waste of Time. Edited June 9, 2018 by LuzExtinguido Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
magik 184 Posted June 9, 2018 (edited) 59 minutes ago, LuzExtinguido said: Really? Okay mr nude artist, would you point what exactly makes a drawing pornographic, and what makes a drawing not pornographic? How about I answer this for you with a quote? I'm neither an artist, or an expert on the matter, simply a passing human, with knowledge on the matter. There's this Manga that I have read give a good embodiment of the idea. It's titled: Rough Sketch Senpai There's no pornographic nudity, although many allusions to nudity. Chapter 2 has the main character's muse posing similar to that of Gustav Klimt's painting Danae (Link to wikipedia about the artwork) (Sorry for adding a few more images, I added more than I originally intended.) An artwork that may have a nude person, clearly isn't pornography, but it has a symbol, a meaning, a reason behind it. I'm not going to debate simply stating that the nude symbols in the game are or aren't artwork. Real artwork has meaning and thought behind it. That is the difference that @Zascha was talking about. Edited June 9, 2018 by Sergsininia added images Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xxPiscesxx 0 Posted June 9, 2018 I think this really just borders along the line of whether the DEVs and their players want to add/keep explicit material to their game for whatever reasons; it's just up to them. But personally, I feel like this, with the growing frequency of people (on the internet in general) having animalistically (no pun intended to furries) sexual urges, as well as such a frequent necessity to fulfill this desire (existential tension?) despite the negations of other players that love the game and do not want to see this kind of thing so potentially often, is a form of negligence to the populace. It's literally a protest to involve, as in use of a general definition, social (MMORPG) perversions, to satisfy the tension of stimuli the desirer craves. You can only assume that these desires are so frequently enough that they circumstantially must be constantly stimulated by this aside the main intention of gameplay, so what does this imply? But then again, this is nothing new because of the how many numbers of games that use sexual stimulation to hook their gamers? Again, it's ultimately up to the DEVs. Again, I personally just think if nudity is allowed, you all are gonna go above and beyond because it's, "2018". Not that I don't love you, but I just prefer that not everyone (because each individual is unique and their own, but are susceptible to their environmental conditioning) was exposed to an infamous method of damaging the reward circuit and will-to-pleasure; immediate gratification). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kewlin 692 Posted June 9, 2018 1 hour ago, -Rachel- said: The human body is beautiful, I'm not sure why nudity is such an issue. 58 minutes ago, -Rachel- said: I'm not a fan of objectification, but tasteful sex and nudity isn't an issue for me. This is the APB community, creator of characters like lemonparty and tubgirl. . . I don't think we want to give them access to creating nude characters. . . The vast percentage of nude characters would just be poorly made or trolling. . . maybe like 1 in 500 people could make a good nude character, but for the most part the characters in APB are already bad enough without nudity. 1 hour ago, Zascha said: Have you ever stood in front of a total stranger who is completely naked with the intent to draw a likeness of their naked body and held the responsibility entrusted to you by them that you will not create an image which objectifies them and creates within their mind, shame? If you haven't, then I advise you to take a Life Drawing class at a local University and you can learn the difference for yourself really fast. You can audit the class for free if the teacher allows it. Otherwise, I don't see how you have any room to question what I said on this subject. I find it hilarious that you didn't just answer his question. . . got something to hide? Kek. Anyhoo, jokes aside, calm the fuck down and stop being so narcissistic: looking at a naked woman without jizzing all over the place doesn't make you anything special, in fact if you were legit turned on during figure drawing / painting that would make you abnormal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Excalibur! 207 Posted June 9, 2018 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Sergsininia said: How about I answer this for you with a quote? I'm neither an artist, or an expert on the matter, simply a passing human, with knowledge on the matter. There's this Manga that I have read give a good embodiment of the idea. It's titled: Rough Sketch Senpai There's no nudity, although many allusions to nudity. Chapter 2 has the main character's muse posing similar to that of Gustav Klimt's painting Danae (Link to wikipedia about the artwork) An artwork that may have a nude person, clearly isn't pornography, but it has a symbol, a meaning, a reason behind it. I'm not going to debate simply stating that the nude symbols in the game are or aren't artwork. Real artwork has meaning and thought behind it. That is the difference that @Zascha was talking about. I will make it really simple for you: You give the art the meaning you want and the value you want. Example: a- The artist is obviously a jerk and objectifies women. b- Its just porn, hide it. c- ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) d- Its wonderful made and shows the beauty of the female body. e- The artist may have spent years studying anatomy to get to this degree of art and i really apreciate what he has done. d also in the last Edited June 9, 2018 by LuzExtinguido Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattScott 15242 Posted June 9, 2018 Hi guys, I have already posted the official policy for nudity. APB is 18+, so our rule is no genitalia. But I can see the value of what the OP was asking. Unfortunately showing/hiding nudity would rely on accurate flagging. I appreciate the discussion. Going to lock this thread. Thanks, Matt 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Excalibur! 207 Posted June 9, 2018 This never got answered and i was genuinelly curious since the new policies and blah blah... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
