The ARMAS pre-set guns and your weapon re-balance.

[Tigrix 308]

(if you read this, do yourself a favor and read the topic/answers all the way down:) there's some good discussion imho.)
-----------------------

Are there any plans to unlock mods on your armas sold weapons?

I feel that people who pickup the bill and support your game shouldn't get screwed over when you make a purchase with RL money for a specific gun with specific mods that are LOCKED to the gun.
It's perfectly expect-able that re-balances might happen, but to completely change the effect of a mod that are locked on many of your armas sold weapons......  well, i'd assume you'd at least unlock that mod then.

I don't see an issue in unlocking the mod on the armas weapons affected by this new IR3 mod. 
If anything, only unlock the IR3 mod on the gun and keep the other slots locked, it's a tech already available and at least the players get a choice for a new red mod on those purchases. 

I'm not complaining about nerfing a gun, if anything i'm ALL for making it so ALL armas guns are obtainable in-game via F2P methods, so there never has to be a "p2w" debate.
But what I'm against is that if you change a mod in a way that makes it affect guns in a new way without addressing existing mod-locked guns you sold....... and you've sold tons of people a gun with a mod pre-set that include IR3 and now makes no sense, and in-fact make the gun perform worse than its f2p counterpart or its open-slot siblings...  you have to consider that in your equation upon such a big change.

"get a trial gun first" used to be the response from old G1, if anyone complained about a gun being weak or "bad" and fair enough imo, but we can't trial nor predict that you change the way a mod works.
These guns that supporters of your game bought, are suddenly locked with mods that actually make them terrible weapons vs equal guns without the mod, isn't that quite frankly just stupid?

Who wants a CSG / TAS or ATAC with 18% reduction in fire-rate? O.o (and if some do want that, bless them, but it should be a choice.... ppl made a choice when they bought that gun from you)
ATAC with 18% fire re-duction is literally garbage.... it's only strong point was that it fired faster than most other assault rifles, so what it lacked in range it made up for in CQC vs ntecs etc... now it fires slow and any sane player would never use IR3 on it.

Yes, people willingly purchased guns with locked mods, but based on experience with those mods and the trial with the gun, using those locked mods.
I don't care as much, I don't play much nowadays but I do think it's unfair to everyone who spent $$ getting a gun with certain locked mods that now make no sense with the gun.

I'm just wondering what and if any thoughts went into that? and if so, are you planning on anything to address the locked armas guns that were sold with IR3 or you just saying "too bad" ?

Solution:
You could consider to unlock the IR3 slot on the gun, so each player can freely choose to replace IR3 with something else or leave it in. It's fair that the player can only use that open slot, same as any other open slot in the game, i.e. put in mods that are usable by his rank. It seems a far more gentle and fair way of handling things as opposed to doing nothing and leaving it as it is, which basically tells those affected players: now you should go pickup the f2p version or counterpart of the gun and get some open mods that don't make the gun suck.


Atm it feels like, without saying anything, it's being hinted strongly that:
Oh well, seems ya'll got stuck with some pretty bad mod pre-sets on your armas purchases from our new IR3 mod..... oops, better luck in the future! 

That imho is a very poor way of handling it when you're a F2P game, relying on people feeling comfortable purchasing things off armas from you as a company.
Might just be me being grumpy about what I feel wasn't thought though before it got pushed out and I can only speak for myself obviously when saying that it really deters me from wanting to ever grab a locked armas gun again.

Edited August 11, 2018 by Tigrix

[CookiePuss 5357]

3 minutes ago, Tigrix said:

Are there any plans to unlock mods on your armas sold weapons?

I feel that people who pickup the bill and support your game shouldn't get screwed over when you make a purchase with IRL money for a specific gun with specific mods that are LOCKED to the gun.
It's perfectly expect-able that re-balances might happen, but to completely change the effect of a mod that are locked on many of your armas sold weapons......  well, i'd assume you'd at least unlock the mods then.

You as a company and as decision-makers) have the freedom to do as you please, but who in their right mind will buy another weapon on armas with locked mods, knowing you might someday make the gun less useful than the SAME gun without the mod? I'm not complaining about nerfing a gun, but if you change a mod in a way that makes it affect guns in a new way....... and you've sold tons of people a gun with a mod pre-set that now makes no sense, you have to consider that in your equation.

"get a trial gun first" used to be the response from old G1, if anyone complained about a gun being weak or "bad" and fair enough imo, but we can't trial nor predict that you change the way a mod works.
These guns that supporters of your game bought, are suddenly locked with mods that actually make them terrible weapons vs equal guns without the mod, isn't that quite frankly just stupid?

Who wants a CSG with 18% reduction in fire-rate? O.o (and if some do want that, bless them, but it should be a choice.... ppl made a choice when they bought that gun with a specific pre-set...)

Same goes for the ATAC tbh, though I don't care as much, I don't play much nowadays but I do think it's unfair to everyone who spent $$ getting a gun with certain locked mods and then you go and change
the way that mod works in a way that completely bins the weapon or makes it perform worse than the same gun without that mod.
ATAC with 18% fire re-duction is literally garbage.... it's only strong point was that it fired faster than most other assault rifles, so what it lacked in range it made up for in CQC vs ntecs etc... now it fires slow and still lacks accuracy on range.

I'm just wondering what and if any thoughts went into that? and if so, are you planning on anything to address the locked armas guns that were sold with IR3 or you just saying "too bad" ?

Will they also refund all the joker boxes people bought to get a Yukon? Or the pre nerf nano? And what about the old troublemaker?

I feel for these players, I really do. Im just not sure what the possible solutions are. Edited August 11, 2018 by CookiePuss

[Ebola-Chan 59]

9 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Will they also refund all the joker boxes people bought to get a Yukon? Or the pre nerf nano? And what about the old troublemaker?

I feel for these players, I really do. Im just not sure what the possible solutions are.

+1
its as if people go and buy an op weapon (trouble maker/atac) abuse the hrll out of it and when it gets nerf ask for a refund

it doesnt work that way

[CookiePuss 5357]

1 minute ago, Ebola-Chan said:

+1
its as if people go and buy an op weapon (trouble maker/atac) abuse the hrll out of it and when it gets nerf ask for a refund

it doesnt work that way

To be fair, Tigrix isnt asking about OP guns, but rather once viable guns that may have been nerfed into the ground.

[Tigrix 308]

19 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Will they also refund all the joker boxes people bought to get a Yukon? Or the pre nerf nano? And what about the old troublemaker?

I feel for these players, I really do. Im just not sure what the possible solutions are.

You miss the point.

let me copy-paste:
It's perfectly expect-able that re-balances might happen, but to completely change the effect of a mod that are locked on many of your armas sold weapons......  well, i'd assume you'd at least unlock the mods then.

re-balancing a weapon making it less strong than other guns, is not a problem imho - it just changes the meta and that's fine (and needed tbh after years of everyone using same guns, I welcome it).
But changing a specific MOD completely, so that multiple guns sold through armas, now has a mod setup that makes no sense and people who spent $$ on them are actually stuck with inferior guns to their counterparts in the game, even inferior to their identical siblings that may not be locked with an IR3 mod.... that's the issue imho.

Should you be punished for using armas? does it make any sense that people who support the game should be stuck with guns that are less useful than their f2p counterparts with open mod slots?

I'm not asking for them to be buffed or for the IR3 change to be reverted, I don't think ARMAS guns should in any way be stronger than f2p guns, hell no.
If it was up to me, then ALL guns was obtainable in-game with enough time/effort played, so there never was a p2w debate.

But I'm asking if LO considered all those guns sold on armas with a locked IR3 mod that are now joke weaponry compared to their f2p counterparts and their non-mod locked siblings.

Imho it would be fair to either unlock their mods, or give players a choice for a new locked mod on those guns affected by their choice to completely re-do how IR3 affect a weapon.


  Edited August 11, 2018 by Tigrix

[Uhtdred 232]

my obir vladivostok is now useless.


:S

[CookiePuss 5357]

1 minute ago, Tigrix said:

You miss the point.

let me copy-paste:
It's perfectly expect-able that re-balances might happen, but to completely change the effect of a mod that are locked on many of your armas sold weapons......  well, i'd assume you'd at least unlock the mods then.

re-balancing a weapon making it less strong than other guns, is not a problem imho - it just changes the meta and that's fine (and needed tbh after years of everyone using same guns, I welcome it).
But changing a specific MOD completely, so that multiple guns sold through armas, now has a mod setup that makes no sense and people who spent $$ on them are actually stuck with inferior guns to their counterparts in the game, even inferior to their identical siblings that may not be locked with an IR3 mod.... that's the issue imho.

Should you be punished for using armas? does it make any sense that people who support the game should be stuck with guns that are less useful than their f2p counterparts with open mod slots?

I'm not asking for them to be buffed or for the IR3 change to be reverted, I don't thin ARMAS guns should in any way be stronger than f2p guns, hell no.
If it was up to me, then ALL guns was obtainable in-game with enough time/effort played.

But I'm asking if LO considered all those guns sold on armas with a locked IR3 mod that are now joke weaponry compared to their f2p counterparts and their non-mod locked siblings.


 

Oh i get the point, you are saying there is a difference between balancing weapons, and balancing mods.
The changes to IR pale in comparison to the changes I mentioned.

Though I do hope LO does something for the now unhappy customers, Im not sure they can or should.
 

[Tigrix 308]

11 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Oh i get the point, you are saying there is a difference between balancing weapons, and balancing mods.
The changes to IR pale in comparison to the changes I mentioned.

Though I do hope LO does something for the now unhappy customers, Im not sure they can or should.
 

Exactly this ^

I don't see an issue in unlocking the mods on the armas weapons affected by their new IR3 mod.
If anything, only unlock the IR3 mod on the gun and keep the other slots locked, it's a tech they already have available, so at least the players get a choice for a new red mod on those armas weapons.

Making a drastic change and not addressing how it affects certain guns that you sold with locked pre-sets...... well, it will deter others from buying mod-locked guns on armas in the future - I can of course only speak for myself, but I don't think it's a far fetched theory. Edited August 11, 2018 by Tigrix

[CookiePuss 5357]

2 minutes ago, Tigrix said:

Exactly this ^

I don't see an issue in unlocking the mods on the armas weapons affected by their new IR3 mod.
If anything, only unlock the IR3 mod on the gun and keep the other slots locked, it's a tech they already have available, so at least the players get a choice for a new red mod on those armas weapons.

Screwing your supporters over in this way will only deter those who often supported the game, from doing so, imho anyway - I can of course only speak for myself.

I definitely agree on a moral level.
I just dont know anything about the technical side of it.
Such as if its possible or more importantly, how difficult and therefore costly it would be for LO to do so.

[Tigrix 308]

1 minute ago, CookiePuss said:

I definitely agree on a moral level.
I just dont know anything about the technical side of it.
Such as if its possible or more importantly, how difficult and therefore costly it would be for LO to do so.

The tech is already available to them. They have guns with certain locked mods and an open slot etc.
If you mean tech, as per say "how do we make this change to current affected armas guns in the game" - well, I'm pretty sure it's not a problem on a programming level of things, but it'd be nice to know if it's something they at least consider or if they just made this change and expected no-one to ask about the guns they sold with this completely changed IR3 being locked to them lol. 

[CookiePuss 5357]

5 minutes ago, Tigrix said:

The tech is already available to them. They have guns with certain locked mods and an open slot etc.
If you mean tech, as per say "how do we make this change to current affected armas guns in the game" - well, I'm pretty sure it's not a problem on a programming level of things, but it'd be nice to know if it's something they at least consider or if they just made this change and expected no-one to ask about the guns they sold with this completely changed IR3 being locked to them lol. 

Is changing guns in the inventories of maybe thousands of players that easy?
 

[Tigrix 308]

14 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Is changing guns in the inventories of maybe thousands of players that easy?
 

I can't speak for UE, I never used it, but I'd wager to say yes.
In any environment like such big platform as UE, it is a matter of code lines they'll execute once to make the change, once they know what they actually wanna change.
They changed IR3 on all those same guns:) To target specific guns, is merely a matter of; do they have unique calls/id's for those guns they sell on armas with locked slots.
And again, of course yes they do, anything else would not be common sense at all for any programmer of any level  
  Edited August 11, 2018 by Tigrix

[Genobee 142]

17 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Is changing guns in the inventories of maybe thousands of players that easy?
  

Actually I believe that is easy, relatively speaking of course. When a change is made to a gun in a patch it'll alter it for everyone. They don't have to manually sort through inventories or anything crazy in this particular case. Alter the associated table, and when the patch goes live all is well (barring bugs! Which who the hell knows with APB. For all I know tweaking presets results in car spawners vanishing). Problem is that also opens up a whole new can of worms. What if someone doesn't have the modification that was removed to slot back into it? What if they don't meet the rank requirement to equip the mod that used to be stuck in it? 

Besides the thing is.. why would they change it? I'm kinda with you on how they should handle it. We know what we bought. We willingly chose to go for guns that couldn't be modded. That was our decision to make.

Maybe if they are feeling super generous they could look into it.. but eh. There's a slew of problems introduced with them doing it. Moreso than with simply balancing guns. Even what I feel like would be the more "reasonable" option has a lot of technical hurdles to it. Which would be to offer a discount on the open slot variant to owners of presets. Of course I'm still not convinced they should do anything. So. Eh. Done spewing out general nonsense. Edited August 11, 2018 by Genobee

[CookiePuss 5357]

Should be intersting to see how this plays out. 

[Tigrix 308]

13 minutes ago, Genobee said:

Actually I believe that is easy, relatively speaking of course. When a change is made to a gun in a patch it'll alter it for everyone. They don't have to manually sort through inventories or anything crazy in this particular case. Alter the associated table, and when the patch goes live all is well (barring bugs! Which who the hell knows with APB. For all I know tweaking presets results in car spawners vanishing). Problem is that also opens up a whole new can of worms. What if someone doesn't have the modification that was removed to slot back into it? What if they don't meet the rank requirement to equip the mod that used to be stuck in it? 

Besides the thing is.. why would they change it? I'm kinda with you on how they should handle it. We know what we bought. We willingly chose to go for guns that couldn't be modded. That was our decision to make.

Maybe if they are feeling super generous they could look into it.. but eh. There's a slew of problems introduced with them doing it. Moreso than with simply balancing guns. Even what I feel like would be the more "reasonable" option has a lot of technical hurdles to it. Which would be to offer a discount on the open slot variant to owners of presets. Of course I'm still not convinced they should do anything. So. Eh. Done spewing out general nonsense.

None of those problems exist if they simply unlock just the IR3 slot on the gun  
People can select a different mod or leave the current IR3 in.

If they unlock that 3rd slot on the gun and a player freely choose to remove the IR3, then imho it's fair that the player can only use that open slot, same as any other open slot in the game, i.e. put in mods that are usable by his rank. It seems a far more gentle and fair way of handling things as opposed to hinting that it's just a shame you spent irl $ on supporting the game and now you should go pickup the f2p version or counterpart of the gun and get some open mods that don't make the gun suck.

And yes, we willingly chose guns with locked mods, based on our experience with those mods and the trial we had with the gun, using those locked mods.

Atm it feels like, without saying anything, they're hinting strongly that:
Oh well, seems ya'll got stuck with some pretty horrible mod pre-sets on your armas purchases from our decision..... oops, better luck in the future! 

That imho is a very poor way of handling it when you're a F2P game, relying on people feeling comfortable purchasing things off armas from you as a company. Edited August 11, 2018 by Tigrix

[Hexerin 1109]

1 hour ago, CookiePuss said:

Should be intersting to see how this plays out. 

It will play out exactly as these kinds of things always play out in every game ever. Little Orbit will just ignore it, as they have been doing since it was first brought up weeks ago.

[BlatMan 661]

Aside from unique mods, I think primary Armas weapons should have all the slots unlocked. I say this because there's a few weapons that have reskins with unlocked slots, but the original weapon is not available open slotted. Opening slots on all weapons would give the customer more choices.

Edited August 11, 2018 by MrsHappyPenguin

[CookiePuss 5357]

4 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

1 hour ago, CookiePuss said:

Should be intersting to see how this plays out. 

It will play out exactly as these kinds of things always play out in every game ever. Little Orbit will just ignore it, as they have been doing since it was first brought up weeks ago.

But the patch only came out last week.
And Matt also said this:


"Hi all,

We are patching tonight.
I know there is some concern over weapon balance.
We are collecting stats and we will be monitoring the meta.

We are all in this together, and we want the best for the game.
Rest assured we will continue to balance after this patch.

Thanks,
Matt"



Maybe just have a little faith, and exercise some patience.