Why does LO Hate the Thumper?

[LilyRain 671]

17 minutes ago, Uhtdred said:

???

If you arrest someone, you add 1 death/arrest to your enemy, and the enemy have to spawn once? that count as 1 kill to me, and in cop role if you arrest someone, you add 1 to the count.

I never said playing with fragile is an advtange.. quite the opposite, it's a disadvantage/bad modification, just like using kev 3. Only new players/bronzes/silvers think fragile is a good mod. But in your case, you use fragile to run and arrest easily.

for a silver like you, it's a lot easier to arrest 1 guy than killing 2 enemies, especially if you are facing noobs like the pic you showed. That's why you finished 8/11 with the best gun in the game (thumper, according to you).

"Done talking with you." → appears back instantly. The mark of a Troll.

 

I'm sorry but you don't make the rules. 1 count that is worth twice the score, simply because LTL is an uphill battle and more rightfully so. You don't even know how to read scoreboards.

 

If you understand fragile is a bad mod then you should understand the feat. Doing well with a bad mod is a good thing in itself, not the opposite like you have claimed. Not really hard to understand but apparently all you can do is bark Silver this Silver that like the dog you are with zero substantiation. You try to downplay others because you can't rise up yourself, simply pathetic.

 

And because you tried to downplay the list of opponents by saying "In the pic you showed there's no good criminal".... for your information, I did also MVP missions against some of the best players using LTL and fragile as well. I recorded parts of the match in slighly low bitrate for economical purposes but the scoreboard can be made sense of:

 

 

 

 

This is the last piece of undeniable proof. I hope you learned something today but that's doubtful. I have better things to do.

 

"Done talking with you"

[Uhtdred 235]

2 hours ago, LilyRain said:

"Done talking with you." → appears back instantly. The mark of a Troll.

 

I'm sorry but you don't make the rules. 1 count that is worth twice the score, simply because LTL is an uphill battle and more rightfully so. You don't even know how to read scoreboards.

 

If you understand fragile is a bad mod then you should understand the feat. Doing well with a bad mod is a good thing in itself, not the opposite like you have claimed. Not really hard to understand but apparently all you can do is bark Silver this Silver that like the dog you are with zero substantiation. You try to downplay others because you can't rise up yourself, simply pathetic.

 

And because you tried to downplay the list of opponents by saying "In the pic you showed there's no good criminal".... for your information, I did also MVP missions against some of the best players using LTL and fragile as well. I recorded parts of the match in slighly low bitrate for economical purposes but the scoreboard can be made sense of:

 

 

 

 

This is the last piece of undeniable proof. I hope you learned something today but that's doubtful. I have better things to do.

 

"Done talking with you"

what does that pic show?? I don't understand, you keep posting screenshots about random missions/fcs, that doesn't make any sense. you're not even gold, calm down..

can't even read the names on the enf side.. I don't understand whats your point, winning is all that matters in a mission, K/D does not.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Uhtdred

[Hexerin 1140]

Damn Lily, you really are a walking example of Dunning Kruger. Absolutely amazing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Hexerin

[BlatMan 706]

You got 1 MVP against players who are so low skilled they have to modify their game to the point of it being unrecognizable just to get every edge they can. Not sure how that's an achievement.

[LilyRain 671]

  

7 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Damn Lily, you really are a walking example of Dunning Kruger. Absolutely amazing.

Says the guy who claimed ALL shotguns are useless. Your words carry zero value.

 

-------------------------

  

4 hours ago, BlatMan said:

You got 1 MVP against players who are so low skilled they have to modify their game to the point of it being unrecognizable just to get every edge they can. Not sure how that's an achievement.

 

That image shows PvE teammed up with Springhour, which you lot don't even compare to their level. Go ahead, call them "low skilled", doesn't make it true.

-------------

 

Say what you will to make yourselves feel less pathetic, it won't change the reality of the situation that you guys aren't even remotely relevant nor qualified to speak correctly in any game balancing thread.

Edited March 14, 2023 by LilyRain

[Nickolai 206]

As a shotgun connoisseur, I got really mad when they nerfed shotguns back. After the buff they were finally useful and then LO scaled them back and put them in the useless category.

We can easily prove how useful they are, LO can just bring out the raw data on how many times they are used. I am confident that the gap between Shotguns and SMG use is at least 30%.

When was the last time you saw someone actively manning a shotgun in missions? Its too punishing to use - 10 meter range, unreliable hit reg, very punishing if you miss and you might not live long enough to get the second shot in because you got killed by an SMG that is way easier to use. 

The Thumper is so worthless that my friend traded it to me for 3-Point Sling...That's how much it costed me to get one. 60 000$...

Well, I want to thank everyone involved from the team that made shotguns the worst weapon type in APB.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Nickolai

[R3ACT3M 489]

2 hours ago, Nickolai said:

As a shotgun connoisseur, I got really mad when they nerfed shotguns back. After the buff they were finally useful and then LO scaled them back and put them in the useless category.

We can easily prove how useful they are, LO can just bring out the raw data on how many times they are used. I am confident that the gap between Shotguns and SMG use is at least 30%.

I think the CQB class of guns need a rework. I guess the lazy route would be to make sure shotguns and SMGs are on par. Difference between shotguns and SMGs tho is that shotguns can pop out of corners and deal huge damage while an SMG has to be out in the open strafing. So my proposition is that you should have to aim these weapons and receive a movement penalty but more accuracy compared to hip firing them (then nerf hipfire of both shotguns and SMGs) This imo would make them feel more skill based. Because right now the annoying part of fighting these guns is they take very little effort to use. And in the hands of a Pro they are devastating.  A rework like this might also mean other guns need to be tweaked as seen fit. 

[BlatMan 706]

12 hours ago, R3ACT3M said:

I think the CQB class of guns need a rework. I guess the lazy route would be to make sure shotguns and SMGs are on par. Difference between shotguns and SMGs tho is that shotguns can pop out of corners and deal huge damage while an SMG has to be out in the open strafing. So my proposition is that you should have to aim these weapons and receive a movement penalty but more accuracy compared to hip firing them (then nerf hipfire of both shotguns and SMGs) This imo would make them feel more skill based. Because right now the annoying part of fighting these guns is they take very little effort to use. And in the hands of a Pro they are devastating.  A rework like this might also mean other guns need to be tweaked as seen fit. 

Way back shotguns used to have a penalty when sprint shooting. I had no issues with that mechanic because it made sense. You could take a risk sprinting in cqc, or you could stop sprinting for a few ms and then take the shot. They only changed them because the lowest skill players complained.

[Hexerin 1140]

18 hours ago, LilyRain said:

 Says the guy who claimed ALL shotguns are useless. Your words carry zero value.

Still waiting on you to post any legitimate evidence that refutes that. You won't though, because it doesn't actually exist due to shotguns being in a garbage state currently.

[LilyRain 671]

11 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Still waiting on you to post any legitimate evidence that refutes that. You won't though, because it doesn't actually exist due to shotguns being in a garbage state currently.

I already have. One doesn't simply get a killstreak with a "useless" class of weapons and I've done it with the one that is considered low on that class. Your claim is FACTUALLY far from reality.

 

If you have this much time to blame shotguns, work on your abilities, you might've gotten somewhere by now.

[a Pair of Socks 126]

On 3/5/2023 at 4:43 PM, LilyRain said:

text.

Sorry for delay in response, life sux a phattie n wut not, but yee IDK chief. Here's some clips from when the day I posted this but Ill give it another shot later. 
Also sorry for shit quality, youtube butchered it for some reason.

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by a Pair of Socks

[LilyRain 671]

10 hours ago, a Pair of Socks said:

Sorry for delay in response, life sux a phattie n wut not, but yee IDK chief. Here's some clips from when the day I posted this but Ill give it another shot later. 
Also sorry for shit quality, youtube butchered it for some reason.

 

No problem, quality is more than enough

 

There is a recurring, fundamental gameplay mistake in all of these clips that stem from improper distance gauging. You are playing the weapon like a carbine, not like an nfas as well as prioritizing defense when offense is the play & vice versa, you also only ever use Thumper's ability at like 25+ meters on the 4th clip (0:25→0:41). That range is too far it is even outside PMG's effective range (PMG would take 1.05s to kill there assuming no shots miss). Actually getting +75 assist on that was majestic.

 

First clip (0:00 → 0.02): You were approaching the target but instead of converging in further (or at least maintain distance), you WENT BACK. You have an innate tendency of falling back outside effective range and that is a core problem (you are subconsciously trying to maintain 15+ meters as if you are rubberbanding). Shotguns aren't meant to retreat, they either push forward or hold corners. Additionally, if you play the clip at x0.25 speed, you have fired 6 times but the last shot was made after the target was dead, so we're looking at 5 shots. ONLY 1 of them was aimed right. The first shot was completely too far left, the second was way over the target's head, the third was also too far left, the 4th was actually good but you already retreated at that point, the fifth was below a jumping target and also too far right.

 

Second clip (0:03 → 0:13): Same problems but in a different location. You started an engagement to a far target and stayed by your door for possible cover, problem is that there was no objective behind you to defend as you're not playing a mission. The right play for a here was to wait. That's right, wait as the target was relatively coming in your direction which would've allowed you to either meet them point blank or to capitalize on their behind if they went to the upper-stairs or adjacent room. Regardless, target retreated to the hallway, you decided to chase BUT your chase was ineffective. Rather than running towards the hallway, you ran straight out while looking at the target, you innately again maintained distance. You went in just a tad bit closer while missing shots, finally made it to the wall by the right. Rather than dropping shots while peeking out and back in as you had cover-advantage, you RETREATED AGAIN while completely exposing yourself as well as missing another shot before landing one prior to dying.

 

Third clip (0:14 - 0:16): Much better engagement location but you didn't move in still, actually tapped 'S' a bit, missed one of the shots and completely did not use Thumper's mod. It would've made the difference there.

 

Fourth clip (0:25→0:41): Simply too far. had cover and didn't use a low-yield grenade at all despite them having the ability to explode a bit faster. Again, not even SMGs are at their prime there.

 

Last clip (0:41 → end): Prioritized defense when offense was the play. You witnessed the Target dropping down with a pistol and instead of moving in as you HAVE the ttk advantage, you decided to prioritize grabbing the objective circle, followed by staying back incase you 'needed' cover (and you actually did take cover behind the wall to the left). You have finally moved in for the kill as your teammate distracted the target.

 

You're just playing it wrong.

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But what you want to have the Balancers do is clear, it is something a part of the community vouched for myself included and it seems the Balancers didn't want it. That would be to make things just a bit less arcadey and just a tad bit more realistic. Nobody wants full-realism but they used that excuse to make the game the COMPLETE opposite, too damn role-centric. This would make every weapon dangerous in more than 1 category (CQC weapons would do well in both CQC and a bit of lower-mid-range, mid-range can extend a bit further or get less harsh damage drop over distance. additional possible changes would be to reduce wind up timers on nfas true ogre and osmaw, or completely get rid of wind timers if the game proves to be too fast for them. Perfect concussion grenades would 1-shot again unless flak jacket is equipped but of course Clotting Agent 3 was too beloved for them it was out of the question, etc.). Sadly, they chose against it and wanted the nonsense of "weapon identities", further making weapons role-centric. The game has way too many weapons for its own good thanks to Joker Mystery Boxes. Little Orbit succeeded in making ARMAS weapons more accessible and killing off Joker Boxes but they are yet to even dare to make the move of .... effectively deleting some redundant weapons by making them reskins of other dominant ones in their respective categories. LO didn't even buff unique ones yet (Thumper doesn't qualify, it is a different take at nfas).

 

If such a thing happens, APB would become a more logical game, making the way you are playing now fine (if you stop missing). Till then (which is highly, almost certainly unlikely), you must play the game the way it is currently designed by paying closer attention to your actual distance to opponents. This is APB, a game of choice and distances so improve your distance gauging.

Edited March 16, 2023 by LilyRain

[a Pair of Socks 126]

12 hours ago, LilyRain said:

There is a recurring, fundamental gameplay mistake in all of these clips that stem from improper distance gauging. You are playing the weapon like a carbine, not like an nfas as well as prioritizing defense when offense is the play & vice versa, you also only ever use Thumper's ability at like 25+ meters on the 4th clip (0:25→0:41). That range is too far it is even outside PMG's effective range (PMG would take 1.05s to kill there assuming no shots miss). Actually getting +75 assist on that was majestic.

 

You're just playing it wrong.

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I don't need it to be a copy paste of another gun nor should it be OP but in it's current state it's more of an airsoft gun than a fucking shotgun. It's not viable unless you're on a corner and they're within 3 meters and they miss their first shot.  x ___x

Edited March 16, 2023 by a Pair of Socks

[BlatMan 706]

Make the thumper handle exactly the same way the 'show stopper' did when it was first released. It was the best primary shotgun. You could do 150+ damage at 60M, but it's ttk was still low enough that SMGs and ARs would out perform it when there wasn't enough cover.

 

Or at least something similar to that. The show stopper felt like a proper shotgun, which was strange considering it's a secondary.

Edited March 17, 2023 by BlatMan

[LilyRain 671]

10 hours ago, a Pair of Socks said:

I don't need it to be a copy paste of another gun nor should it be OP but in it's current state it's more of an airsoft gun than a fucking shotgun. It's not viable unless you're on a corner and they're within 3 meters and they miss their first shot.  x ___x

It already is. It is a manual nfas with added accuracy as well as further accuracy with a built-in mod. There are way too many shotguns in the game to make a unique one. Perhaps do you have an original idea to propose for Thumper or any future shotgun?

 

Plus, your first clip shows 5 shots where not a single one was aimed on target. Not.. a... single.. one. Watch it yourself at x0.25 speed. You got a 1.2s ttk in a situation where any other weapon that doesn't feature splash damage wouldn't have got you that. If you call rewarding shitty-aim "shit" then a core point in this entire thread is fulfilled. You're already getting rewarded for bad aim, APB for a fact doesn't need shotgun ray-scaling back.

[BlatMan 706]

1 hour ago, LilyRain said:

It already is. It is a manual nfas with added accuracy as well as further accuracy with a built-in mod. There are way too many shotguns in the game to make a unique one. Perhaps do you have an original idea to propose for Thumper or any future shotgun?

 

Plus, your first clip shows 5 shots where not a single one was aimed on target. Not.. a... single.. one. Watch it yourself at x0.25 speed. You got a 1.2s ttk in a situation where any other weapon that doesn't feature splash damage wouldn't have got you that. If you call rewarding shitty-aim "shit" then a core point in this entire thread is fulfilled. You're already getting rewarded for bad aim, APB for a fact doesn't need shotgun ray-scaling back.

Look at the current shotgun spread from a good aim perspective. You never deal 100% damage when shooting beyond 5M, maybe less than that. The current shotguns don't reward good or bad aim. In that second clip, Socks would have killed in 5 shots whether they were aimed center or halfway to the left or right. Add on pellet spread RNG and you get different outcomes while doing the same thing. Nobody above the skill floor wants inconsistency.

 

The JG has the same issues, but it has more overdamage to compensate for partial hits. The CSG has more pellets per shot, which makes it less likely to completely miss at range. Some versions have improved rifling 3, which means less damage drop at range. It also has lower TTK when compared to the thumper's markmans mode.

[LilyRain 671]

1 minute ago, BlatMan said:

Look at the current shotgun spread from a good aim perspective. You never deal 100% damage when shooting beyond 5M, maybe less than that. The current shotguns don't reward good or bad aim. In that second clip, Socks would have killed in 5 shots whether they were aimed center or halfway to the left or right. Add on pellet spread RNG and you get different outcomes while doing the same thing. Nobody above the skill floor wants inconsistency.

 

The JG has the same issues, but it has more overdamage to compensate for partial hits. The CSG has more pellets per shot, which makes it less likely to completely miss at range. Some versions have improved rifling 3, which means less damage drop at range. It also has lower TTK when compared to the thumper's markmans mode.

Except again, in the second clip, Socks didn't utilize the weapon's mod. That wasn't "RNG", that was simply 'smash left mouse button to win' on a weapon that isn't designed that way. Plus, not even jg would 2 shot at that distance so its "overdamage" wouldn't make the situation better. Time to kill in that situation is the same for both. Socks again kept himself at 14 meters, didn't MOVE IN and kept shooting by the stairs just because he wanted to go up after the kill. If this continues I'd assume he's faking clips to make the weapon look bad.

 

Some shotguns most certainly do reward better aim. CSG (and its reskin the Tas-20) surely do as they combine better damage over distance with HALF the spread of JG. Fun fact: If Socks was using CSG in the first clip, the target would've still been alive as Sock's aim was way off. CSG is simply more accurate meaning less damage from 'side pellettes'.

 

What is even more important is the current design philosophy behind APB when it comes to weapons. Within every class (close, mid, far), weapons are distributed to excel in certain roles while still retaining power in the same class. Thumper and JG are tuned to be deadlier in CQC as well as faster, your only objective is to get close in a game that also happens to have made Epinephrine THE MOST BROKEN yellow consumable of them ALL. Thumper has a very fast killing potential that can only rivaled by things such as LMGs. Plus, its effective range was given Improved Rifling 3 by default due to its mod being red. If you make Thumper's pellets as good as CSG's it would become the new king of shotguns with absolutely no competitor. This isn't going to happen unless APB's philosophy gets removed or a major weapon balance change happens.

[Uhtdred 235]

9 hours ago, BlatMan said:

Look at the current shotgun spread from a good aim perspective. You never deal 100% damage when shooting beyond 5M, maybe less than that. The current shotguns don't reward good or bad aim. In that second clip, Socks would have killed in 5 shots whether they were aimed center or halfway to the left or right. Add on pellet spread RNG and you get different outcomes while doing the same thing. Nobody above the skill floor wants inconsistency.

 

The JG has the same issues, but it has more overdamage to compensate for partial hits. The CSG has more pellets per shot, which makes it less likely to completely miss at range. Some versions have improved rifling 3, which means less damage drop at range. It also has lower TTK when compared to the thumper's markmans mode.

he did 8/11 with thumper, listen to him, he's an experienced thumper user!!

[BlatMan 706]

If he utilized the weapon's mod, he would have killed them in the same amount of time, and due to pellet spread RNG, it still may have been 4+ hits. The CSG would have killed faster, as well as the majority of the weapons in APB.

 

I do think the CSG is more rewarding for players with good aim, but you're still dealing with randomness of the spread. I rather have an SMG for hip firing or an AR for aiming down sight since those will not miss at such close range.

 

Epinephrine is good for getting back to the action after you respawn, and running away from a losing fight. I haven't seen anyone use it effectively to take out other players. From my perspective it results in them taking less hits to kill, not much else.

 

What do you even mean by "its effective range was given Improved Rifling 3 by default due to its mod being red." The Thumper's damage dropoff starts at 15M, same as the default CSG. If it was 20-25M it would actually be viable in some niche scenarios.

Edited March 18, 2023 by BlatMan