Game balance

[MonkaS 215]

9 hours ago, BlatMan said:

It's 3rd person. Knowing the weapon is blooming is better than nothing. Most shots land closer to center than the max bloom so it's not the worst thing. If you want accuracy at 100M, multiply the 10M accuracy by 10. Want it at 50M? Multiply by 5. You can use compare that to the player's hitbox size, which I can't remember what it is.

 

The real issue is none of the real accuracy numbers are listed in game, so new players have no way of accurately calculating accuracy.

I mean its still dumb idea a new player would have to stumble across this information somewhere on the forums since its clearly never said/seen in game. Also why choose 10m? is it actually exactly 10m? is it 10m from the gun barrel or from the player model or from the player camera? Its just not intuitive.

[SkittyM 287]

3 hours ago, MonkaS said:

I mean its still dumb idea a new player would have to stumble across this information somewhere on the forums since its clearly never said/seen in game. Also why choose 10m? is it actually exactly 10m? is it 10m from the gun barrel or from the player model or from the player camera? Its just not intuitive.

its 10m from the origin point of the character.  Most games typically measure accuracy as  X diameter at Y distance from the player origin.

[NotZombieBiscuit 3146]

13 hours ago, MonkaS said:

I mean its still dumb idea a new player would have to stumble across this information somewhere on the forums since its clearly never said/seen in game. Also why choose 10m? is it actually exactly 10m? is it 10m from the gun barrel or from the player model or from the player camera? Its just not intuitive.

You have to choose somewhere along that cone; You're either stating the deviation of it at the point of origin or some 2d slice along the cone. 10m is a nice point.

[Todesklinge 143]

Before starting "Nerf/Buffing of weapons" you need to balance the community.

 

A good player with a bad weapons is balanced like a bad player with a good weapon.

 

How do you Nerf-Buff this... this dont works (thats why most games do mistakes here).

 

In my opinion the best solution is to reduce and remove the unlimited ammo... also remove ammo ressuply stuff and limit the ammount of ammo for weapons.

 

Strong weapons should have lesser ammo and with this a limitation of use + a reduced accuracy. Weaker weapons have more ammo more accuracy and better in general use. So you need to build a good balanced way of high risk or lesser risk.

 

 

When the matchmaker do 2 veterans against 2 beginners in the mission, no weapon balance have a chance.

 

For an example:

Veteran players have lesser or no grenades and other downsides!

[NotZombieBiscuit 3146]

53 minutes ago, Todesklinge said:

Before starting "Nerf/Buffing of weapons" you need to balance the community.

 

A good player with a bad weapons is balanced like a bad player with a good weapon.

 

How do you Nerf-Buff this... this dont works (thats why most games do mistakes here).

 

In my opinion the best solution is to reduce and remove the unlimited ammo... also remove ammo ressuply stuff and limit the ammount of ammo for weapons.

 

Strong weapons should have lesser ammo and with this a limitation of use + a reduced accuracy. Weaker weapons have more ammo more accuracy and better in general use. So you need to build a good balanced way of high risk or lesser risk.

 

 

When the matchmaker do 2 veterans against 2 beginners in the mission, no weapon balance have a chance.

 

For an example:

Veteran players have lesser or no grenades and other downsides!

Sigh. You were doing so well this week.

[Revoluzzer 274]

On 12/25/2022 at 8:36 AM, BlatMan said:

The real issue is none of the real accuracy numbers are listed in game, so new players have no way of accurately calculating accuracy.

I don't think this is a necessity, as long as each weapon is accurately described in the way it behaves. Which is not and has rarely ever been the case in APB.

But just like showing players where they stand in terms of matchmaking, I think showing them exactly how a weapon functions ultimately leads to a worse gameplay approach.

 

Each weapon should be designed with certain strengths and weaknesses and those should be communicated to the player. You like getting up close and personal? These guns will help you with that. As long as description and behaviour do not diverge, players will more naturally find a weapon that suits them.

 

Should the actual numbers be kept secret? No. But put them somewhere for enthusiasts to look up (like APBdb). 

[CIoud 26]

On 12/26/2022 at 11:57 AM, Todesklinge said:

the best solution is to reduce and remove the unlimited ammo... also remove ammo ressuply stuff and limit the ammount of ammo for weapons.

Strong weapons should have lesser ammo and with this a limitation of use + a reduced accuracy. Weaker weapons have more ammo more accuracy and better in general use. So you need to build a good balanced way of high risk or lesser risk.

For an example:

Veteran players have lesser or no grenades and other downsides!

⠀

Edited September 6, 2023 by who

[MonkaS 215]

6 hours ago, Revoluzzer said:

I don't think this is a necessity, as long as each weapon is accurately described in the way it behaves. Which is not and has rarely ever been the case in APB.

But just like showing players where they stand in terms of matchmaking, I think showing them exactly how a weapon functions ultimately leads to a worse gameplay approach.

 

Each weapon should be designed with certain strengths and weaknesses and those should be communicated to the player. You like getting up close and personal? These guns will help you with that. As long as description and behaviour do not diverge, players will more naturally find a weapon that suits them.

 

Should the actual numbers be kept secret? No. But put them somewhere for enthusiasts to look up (like APBdb). 

yeah gatekeeping information has 100% always helped with balancing games /s

[BlatMan 718]

14 hours ago, Revoluzzer said:

I don't think this is a necessity, as long as each weapon is accurately described in the way it behaves. Which is not and has rarely ever been the case in APB.

But just like showing players where they stand in terms of matchmaking, I think showing them exactly how a weapon functions ultimately leads to a worse gameplay approach.

 

Each weapon should be designed with certain strengths and weaknesses and those should be communicated to the player. You like getting up close and personal? These guns will help you with that. As long as description and behaviour do not diverge, players will more naturally find a weapon that suits them.

 

Should the actual numbers be kept secret? No. But put them somewhere for enthusiasts to look up (like APBdb). 

Your first sentence contradicts itself. You can't accurately describe a weapon without the stats. How do you describe the difference between 40M and 50M with words, other than Forty and Fifty?

[Goldexen 26]

On 12/17/2022 at 1:24 AM, Frosi said:

The document hasn't been given to Matt, it wasn't linked in the letter at all however he has now seen it because I asked for permissions to make it public since players have been asking to see it to which he said yes so here is the document.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/167-1L_hXaxFe9a2QMTbHfLsGONCVaEEem2pTP3le97c/edit?usp=sharing

>Car balance
>Only 2 tweaks
you know, this is a joke, right? Where is Varzuga Rally? Where is fix for nitro on Ravan not giving any boost? Where is fix for Moirai's rear gear? 
Ah, yes redacting HP is most simpliest thing, i forgor

[Revoluzzer 274]

18 hours ago, BlatMan said:

Your first sentence contradicts itself. You can't accurately describe a weapon without the stats. How do you describe the difference between 40M and 50M with words, other than Forty and Fifty?

I wouldn't. 40 and 50m are both medium range, for all intents and purposes. That's the crucial information a player needs.

 

Say we have two medium range weapons, but one is slightly better designed for short range and the other for long range. Essentially the original concept for the STAR and the N-Tec. I would have them both described as medium range assault rifles, but outline their preference towards one end of the spectrum. Naturally this is also reflected in their other stats; after all, no gun should be defined by a single one of its attributes.

Conversely, I wouldn't describe the original ATAC as a medium range assault rifle, despite it's effective range of 50m. Because that was not what it was designed to do and that information would not be relevant.

 

The advantage of describing in prose what a weapon is supposed to do and then setting the numbers to reflect those words, is that most people easily understand words, but hardly understand numbers.

[BlatMan 718]

You personally are unable to compare and contrast weapons based on their overall stats, so you think no one should have easy access to that information.

 

Everyone interprets words differently, and translating to other languages isn't perfect. Math doesn't change. You know what does change? Weapon stats, like the ATAC's effective range from 50m to 40m, and some accuracy stats back in 2020. You'd need to read through a hundred patch notes to find that change if it wasn't for APB:DB.

 

Most people manage to pass kindergarten, They can handle it.

[SkittyM 287]

On 12/26/2022 at 5:04 AM, Revoluzzer said:

I don't think this is a necessity, as long as each weapon is accurately described in the way it behaves. Which is not and has rarely ever been the case in APB.

But just like showing players where they stand in terms of matchmaking, I think showing them exactly how a weapon functions ultimately leads to a worse gameplay approach.

 

Each weapon should be designed with certain strengths and weaknesses and those should be communicated to the player. You like getting up close and personal? These guns will help you with that. As long as description and behaviour do not diverge, players will more naturally find a weapon that suits them.

 

Should the actual numbers be kept secret? No. But put them somewhere for enthusiasts to look up (like APBdb). 

Honestly hadn't thought of this idea but now that you mention it, it sounds pretty solid.  All of RTWs weapons already have this in their description though they may need a bit of updating.  Weapons RP has added are either "functionally identical" or just have random lore, seems to depend on when the weapon was made.

 

I'll try writing up some revise weapon descriptions for those that don't have them and see where that goes.

[Revoluzzer 274]

On 12/28/2022 at 3:47 AM, BlatMan said:

You personally are unable to compare and contrast weapons based on their overall stats, so you think no one should have easy access to that information.

 

Everyone interprets words differently, and translating to other languages isn't perfect. Math doesn't change. You know what does change? Weapon stats, like the ATAC's effective range from 50m to 40m, and some accuracy stats back in 2020. You'd need to read through a hundred patch notes to find that change if it wasn't for APB:DB.

 

Most people manage to pass kindergarten, They can handle it.

Slow down there, fella. I'd wager many people who passed high school can't even work those numbers properly. Some people interpret math differently, too.

 

As long as the wording is consistent, it doesn't matter how anyone interprets it. Translations can get icky, if someone doesn't follow the original consistency, though.

 

On 12/29/2022 at 2:11 AM, SkittyM said:

Honestly hadn't thought of this idea but now that you mention it, it sounds pretty solid.  All of RTWs weapons already have this in their description though they may need a bit of updating.  Weapons RP has added are either "functionally identical" or just have random lore, seems to depend on when the weapon was made.

 

I'll try writing up some revise weapon descriptions for those that don't have them and see where that goes.

Those lore-bits in item descriptions are such a nice detail, too.

It's also a good exercise for game design when creating a new weapon, because a good description already outlines what the weapon is supposed to do and how the stats must be shaped to create those characteristics.