Remove or adjust useless stats (Willpower/Saves/Other)

[Reaps989 17]

I've been an advocate of this for some time, and I apologize in advance but I'll attempt to keep this short and sweet.

Willpower : Remove

• Has no function beyond boosting mutations from 180 to 196 (Nobody in their right mind would unless the unlocks at this tier was broken)
  • It does improve mind saves, which is a botched system that has not been properly functional (No proper scaling between abilities/effects) for quite some time.
    • Can trick players into spending into it wasting valuable AP.
• If removed, move alpha mutation to scale based on player's level or Endurance. As well as having mutations scale at 100% of their main (75% scaling) stat.

 

"Saves" - Reflex, Mind, & Body : Remove

• System has been scraped long before LO took over with inconsistencies all over the place making no two abilities be resisted as the same rates.
  • Some not even working at all or simply do not have the "intended" save check
• The system itself makes sense, if functional, you have a percent chance to resist an effect of that effect type... if there are no plans to fix it then simply remove it.
  • Obviously if removed, remove all save scaling from stats and any armor/consumes which buff them.

 

Perception : Ajust

I know this may leave some scratching their heads, but let me explain. This is the single most inefficient stats, that still has value, yet is underused for plenty of reasons.

• Tied to tradeskill, when paired with 98 Intelligence at 95 perception you will fall into some poor breakpoints.

 

First Aid : 194 (You don't need above 186, ever)
Suppression : 176 (While 174 can work, it's still big poo in terms of AP efficiency)
Heavy Weapons : 160 (Besides the healing launcher, you should never go above 165, even then strength would be the superior stat for HP)
Social : 146 (Seeing as it's mostly used for it's healing boost aura, chances are you'll invest into charisma for decent empathic to maximize it.)
Dodge : 160 (You shouldn't be investing anything besides extra AP here, stance was nerfed to piss.)
Rifle/Pistol : 160 (Only if you are going non-weapon stanced builds such as Attack Posture & Ablate)
 

• Even before considering the above, the only benefit of this stat is to effectively see users with Escape Artist & Reflex Saves. Thus why most will sooner invest into Dexterity as they will at least net some stamina/regen.

 

So some pretty simple suggestions here when it comes to Perception.

 

• Remove 1 stamina scaling from Dexterity (2 stamina rather than 3 stamina per point), moving it to perception (making it 1 statmina per point). Giving it a bit more value when focusing on scaling.
  • This way ranged characters still net a decent sum of stamina but aren't crazy above non-ranged builds.
• Remove perception from Tradeskill scaling, instead having it scale 100% on intelligence (98 intelligence would net 196 tradeskill)
  • Greatly improved viability of craft focused characters in all weapon lines, rather than forcing them into a ranged role.
• Move Enhancement to scale with Perception, not Charisma, to give ranged weapons an aura line.
• Remove scaling of perception on Social, making it's scaling 100% on Charisma.

[cowhorseman 441]

can we please focus on getting back online before you start making suggestions. how many people still remember the exacts per a build. and perception affect a large scale of skills. like several mutations pistols rifles heavy weapons. just to be clear here your gonna have to change a ton of skills for 1 core mutation and the same with willpower which well right now isnt needed  

[marryshipp 3]

Tell you what. No this is stupid really stupid. Why add more to the devs plate when its gonna 15 years before we get this back

[Creeping Vulture 14]

This is all blown out of proportions I think. Lotsa changes then where's a way simpler way out.

 

All stats and some skills to become auto-filled like alpha while lvling, thus for ur 1960 u can choose any 10 full stats u want, and nupes stop asking questions why they do 1dmg with their new toy.

For ex., skills like all weps, social, maybe even prime stuff like au or dodge/prec/power.

 

Social ofc holds some skills in it, still a rare choice for most I'd say, and since there is still a few old quests that req that, and the fact that it gives a disc at vendors, paired with all 4 weps and maybe some extra skills u get better base, and easier understanding of game for nupes I believe. Once again, weps r important, cz this way every build can use any wep of choice, its more casual yes, but isn't that better?)

 

Why au/prec/etc.? Well, since pve/pvp build differs alot, and crafter can't stand a chance properly, such meta would equalize players way more.

 

Big change? Maybe. But it's better, and any change like that would mean for all of u to test new builds anywho. Then again as someone said more then once, all muta shud get a +38/44 buff, since there's no skills on such low lvls anyway, and it would save alot of ap for a build. As to some skills that may have blanks like that, dunno, maybe same.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Creeping Vulture

[Reaps989 17]

On 8/22/2020 at 11:26 PM, cowhorseman said:

can we please focus on getting back online before you start making suggestions. how many people still remember the exacts per a build. and perception affect a large scale of skills. like several mutations pistols rifles heavy weapons. just to be clear here your gonna have to change a ton of skills for 1 core mutation and the same with willpower which well right now isnt needed  

Willpower would actually be removed, perception was simply suggested to be adjusted to promote viability of the stat as a whole. Minus that it wouldn't be required for trade-skill specifically.

Perception effects the following

• Dodge (50%) - Nerfed to dust beside dodge passive.
• First Aid (25%) - 186 unlock at least.
• Heavy Weapons (50%) - Strength is a superior option here, obviously can unlock 195 tho the gain is minimal vs 165.
• Rifle & Pistol (50%) - Same as above, tho at least if you go this route you can use Attack Posture and maybe apply some use in suppression. Tho on a 186 FA build it's already reasonable.
• Social (25%) - I mean if you want to waste AP past 160.
• Suppression (75%) - Vastly under-rated mutation and only mutation scaling this way.
• Tradeskill (25%)

 

On 8/22/2020 at 11:31 PM, marryshipp said:

Tell you what. No this is stupid really stupid. Why add more to the devs plate when its gonna 15 years before we get this back

 

Thus why nothing was suggestion besides numerical value adjustments (which take less than 30 seconds, well ok maybe 45 seconds if we could reloading the database after as seen during G1 PTS testing.)

While I admit it is indeed more work for them, it's like adjusting a value in an excel sheet which already has a formula in place to apply.

 

On 8/24/2020 at 3:43 AM, Creeping Vulture said:

This is all blown out of proportions I think. Lotsa changes then where's a way simpler way out.

 

All stats and some skills to become auto-filled like alpha while lvling, thus for ur 1960 u can choose any 10 full stats u want, and nupes stop asking questions why they do 1dmg with their new toy.

For ex., skills like all weps, social, maybe even prime stuff like au or dodge/prec/power.

 

Social ofc holds some skills in it, still a rare choice for most I'd say, and since there is still a few old quests that req that, and the fact that it gives a disc at vendors, paired with all 4 weps and maybe some extra skills u get better base, and easier understanding of game for nupes I believe. Once again, weps r important, cz this way every build can use any wep of choice, its more casual yes, but isn't that better?)

 

Why au/prec/etc.? Well, since pve/pvp build differs alot, and crafter can't stand a chance properly, such meta would equalize players way more.

 

Big change? Maybe. But it's better, and any change like that would mean for all of u to test new builds anywho. Then again as someone said more then once, all muta shud get a +38/44 buff, since there's no skills on such low lvls anyway, and it would save alot of ap for a build. As to some skills that may have blanks like that, dunno, maybe same.

 

I mean realistically speaking the only real change is mutations scaling to 196 without Willpower (as it isn't needed to begin with) thus saving overall AP investment in most builds. Beyond that simply adjusting perception to limit a "crafter" less. The only other big change is obviously Enhancement tho it gives an aura for ranged characters to spec into rather than having no option besides Group Tactics.

[cowhorseman 441]

15 hours ago, Reaps989 said:

Willpower would actually be removed, perception was simply suggested to be adjusted to promote viability of the stat as a whole. Minus that it wouldn't be required for trade-skill specifically.

Perception effects the following

• Dodge (50%) - Nerfed to dust beside dodge passive.
• First Aid (25%) - 186 unlock at least.
• Heavy Weapons (50%) - Strength is a superior option here, obviously can unlock 195 tho the gain is minimal vs 165.
• Rifle & Pistol (50%) - Same as above, tho at least if you go this route you can use Attack Posture and maybe apply some use in suppression. Tho on a 186 FA build it's already reasonable.
• Social (25%) - I mean if you want to waste AP past 160.
• Suppression (75%) - Vastly under-rated mutation and only mutation scaling this way.
• Tradeskill (25%)

 

 

Thus why nothing was suggestion besides numerical value adjustments (which take less than 30 seconds, well ok maybe 45 seconds if we could reloading the database after as seen during G1 PTS testing.)

While I admit it is indeed more work for them, it's like adjusting a value in an excel sheet which already has a formula in place to apply.

 

 

I mean realistically speaking the only real change is mutations scaling to 196 without Willpower (as it isn't needed to begin with) thus saving overall AP investment in most builds. Beyond that simply adjusting perception to limit a "crafter" less. The only other big change is obviously Enhancement tho it gives an aura for ranged characters to spec into rather than having no option besides Group Tactics.

Ok i get it, but theirs a lot more to work then remaking the combat crafting system alright. marry is right here they don't need something else to work on when they don't even have a working player model in game (as of last update)

[DakkaDakkaDakka 0]

Reaps, why not just make it not empty? Make it give gamma and make more patch/bolster/disrupt/gird levels. It could lead to some funky mutations builds. Just a thought.

Edited September 8, 2020 by DakkaDakkaDakka

[NysekZePope 33]

23 hours ago, DakkaDakkaDakka said:

Reaps, why not just make it not empty? Make it give gamma and make more patch/bolster/disrupt/gird levels. It could lead to some funky mutations builds. Just a thought.

 

As willpower by nature will kinda always be bad. Even if you scaled those abilities up, you'd be better off not investing AP. Their scaling is just bad before considering you unlock 16 into mutations for 165 AP.

 

Even with gamma per point you'd still probably stay at 65 willpower. It's sadly doomed as a garbage stat

[DakkaDakkaDakka 0]

3 hours ago, NysekZePope said:

 

As willpower by nature will kinda always be bad. Even if you scaled those abilities up, you'd be better off not investing AP. Their scaling is just bad before considering you unlock 16 into mutations for 165 AP.

 

Even with gamma per point you'd still probably stay at 65 willpower. It's sadly doomed as a garbage stat

I was thinking like, if for whatever reason you wanted a higher level mutation, and specced into willpower, you could like turn on gird 9 or something and get a nice boost to your hp while not really missing out on gamma because you have more coming from willpower. And if that's not enough, what would make it less garbagy?

If memory serves, there was alpha mutation tied to it, and that too is an orphan of a line. It feels to me like that should be shown some love and perhaps power and alpha could be made to intermix so that if you did scale into willpower you would get new toys. Seems like it would be relatively easy to add skills/buffs there that were cut in previous versions. Maybe gamma regen too ?

Dunno, just thinking outloud. I think that ability to create variety of builds is good.

 

[Reaps989 17]

On 9/8/2020 at 9:51 PM, DakkaDakkaDakka said:

I was thinking like, if for whatever reason you wanted a higher level mutation, and specced into willpower, you could like turn on gird 9 or something and get a nice boost to your hp while not really missing out on gamma because you have more coming from willpower. And if that's not enough, what would make it less garbagy?

If memory serves, there was alpha mutation tied to it, and that too is an orphan of a line. It feels to me like that should be shown some love and perhaps power and alpha could be made to intermix so that if you did scale into willpower you would get new toys. Seems like it would be relatively easy to add skills/buffs there that were cut in previous versions. Maybe gamma regen too ?

Dunno, just thinking outloud. I think that ability to create variety of builds is good.

 

 

Willpower doesn't give gamma... it gave mind saves. Which after 1.9 did nothing as no "Mind Save" check mutations could ever be resisted.

The only time willpower worked was if you went 4 mutations which all had different main stats up to 144 or to unlock the tier of choice there-of to slightly save overall AP.

[DanBaileyCooper 1]

i have never understood why willpower didn't give the player gamma.

[cowhorseman 441]

i think it should be swapped so that it gives like .25% to each save stat. not that saves do alot in pvp or pve, even with some toons i got that have something like 30-40% save in one slot (including bar buff and what not) i rarely see it work

[NysekZePope 33]

On 11/24/2021 at 11:00 AM, DanBaileyCooper said:

i have never understood why willpower didn't give the player gamma.

Because intelligence and charisma already do.

 

Willpower is a cancer stat that limits build potential.