ntec

[Abduct / Devote 69]

2 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

yes I did , and?  It's just my personal experience I  had. so what?

 

Saying my personal experience is to have substance of my own personal experience. what does it have to do with you?

Whether you believe me or not that I went through that is on you , not me.

One single statement to share personal experience and you jump all salty on me which is why i posted this second statement :

 

 

you are unwarranted on your behavior.

literally all i said that i went through.  no idea what you are going off for but whatever.

Talking to you gets nowhere because you legit don't understand anything. If you don't have anything to contribute other than personal bull, don't. Thanks!

[Fortune Runner 796]

1 hour ago, Abduct / Devote said:

Talking to you gets nowhere because you legit don't understand anything. If you don't have anything to contribute other than personal bull, don't. Thanks!

That's nice , it didn't have anything to do with you to begin with so BYEEEE

 

8 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

I still see a lot of ntecs, though there are fewer than there used to be, and other weapons have popped up. For a while there you'd end up going against full teams of 3-4 ntecs. You know, because it's balanced and all

seems legit

 

8 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

They'll jump on anyone and anything they know supported reworking/nerfing the NTEC. Even when the change was necessary, because they can't imagine that a weapon that overperformed most other weapons in the same niche was actually imbalanced.

also seems legit

 

also can we finally get new sounds for the guns

as for the skins , I think with the new engine they may want to upgrade them to better looking graphics soonish , because people do like to look at nice looking games when they play.

5 minutes ago, Synapze777 said:

plz plz -- could we get this thread wiped, pretty plz.?

i can agree to this

[Synapze777 25]

we see these threads come again and again  - and it's always the same shit-fest with people hooting for their favorite guns or players come in as know it alls on every gun modification ever made in APB. Cmon, move on, guys. I'm just tired of seeing this community in so many forum-war posts knocking each other over the head...for digital epeens. Sure guns gets nerfed, sure guns get buffed. It's not needed to pull up threads about it again and again and again.. else friggin make a "complaint about new gun buff/nerf category for the forum". It would keep the shittalk contained at least.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Synapze777

[Abduct / Devote 69]

There wouldn't be a need for these "forum wars" if all the people who cry about every damn gun would shut up and learn to play against them. People who consider themselves "casual" and "don't care about winning or losing" shouldn't care about weapon balance, so I'm not sure why THAT crowd should have a say is all. 

[Noob_Guardian 417]

2 hours ago, Abduct / Devote said:

There wouldn't be a need for these "forum wars" if all the people who cry about every damn gun would shut up and learn to play against them. People who consider themselves "casual" and "don't care about winning or losing" shouldn't care about weapon balance, so I'm not sure why THAT crowd should have a say is all. 

How dare filthy casuals have an opinion or say on anything.

 

What if I told you, proper weapon balance makes the game more enjoyable for casual players?

Not that it matters to you. How dare player experience be enjoyable for most players.

 

I enjoy elitist attitudes, because in most games i've played they get consistently proven wrong, and still think that they matter more than normal players.

[Abduct / Devote 69]

3 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

How dare filthy casuals have an opinion or say on anything.

 

What if I told you, proper weapon balance makes the game more enjoyable for casual players?

Not that it matters to you. How dare player experience be enjoyable for most players.

 

I enjoy elitist attitudes, because in most games i've played they get consistently proven wrong, and still think that they matter more than normal players.

Yeah that's the thing Borus. You're allowed to have an opinion, but you shouldn't be balancing the game. If you're not one of the dedicated better players that actually knows what they're doing, I don't want you to "balance." If the nerf meta you guys so love was the right call, there wouldn't be more threads about nerfs all the time. There always is though, weird how that works! It's like I was right the whole time when I brought this up before. 

 

What if I told you that proper weapon balance isn't something you know how to do, and gets harder to do the more guns you add to the game! Shocker! If most players are enjoying it why is this game population not rising/sustaining? I see 1 playable district when I get on NA, at any time (missions). Yeah, really doing well :). I see a bronze district filled and a silver district constantly fluctuating on both sides, because we have: cheater paranoia all the time, and people don't like losing. Truly, look at any game where there's a shred of competition and has 2 sides.

 

Why is there a thread about so many gun nerfs now? because when you nerf something, you indirectly buff another. It's ok though, since that doesn't matter to YOU. But YOU and people with that mindset drive this game to a progressively bad state. That's my issue with you. Not that you know jack about gun balance, you truly don't as you abused the most broken aspects of anything you touched. Think you mentioned something about sportsmanship, but you fail to practice what you preach. 

 

Just a last statement to your final point, you say that you enjoy elitist attitudes because in "most games I've played they get consistently proven wrong." Weird that you're coincidentally wrong on many talking points you stated to me. One such example is the ATAC thread where you claimed they buffed the ATAC a month after release, but you didn't even know if that was true or not, just "thought" that was right.

 

The reason most vets quit wasn't because of cheaters, sorry cheating is a minority of the issue. Always has been whether you want to believe it or not. When any gun gets nerfed or changed, it affects other guns too, which is why the NTEC became "too good" in your eyes. It got nerfed more than once at this point, and if you ask me the only change that should have happened was the HB2 one, because that was crutch and I know you abused that one

 

Weapon nerfing is not always bad, but there are always repercussions, and the state of forums seems to agree with me. 

 

Also just saying, you twisted the whole point of my message, to fit your quote agenda, nothing unusual from the likes of you or people like-minded. You're always trying to downplay stuff you do and virtue signal on stuff like what I say. 

 

Biggest issues for new players: dethreaters. Not cheaters, not "weapon balancing." Weapon balancing is not what a new player should be discussing, nor a super casual one either. If you're truly that casual, why do you care?

Edited June 5, 2020 by Abduct / Devote

[RespectThis 121]

16 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

If you fire the NTEC at ~.19 or 1.14ttk interval you will fire the ntec with perfect accuracy at range (that'll never happen without a macro). My issue with it for the longest time was bloom recovery and TTK. I wanted it to be at 4.0 rather than the current 5.0 for recovery, and a ttk of .75 same as star. I thought that would balance it. CQC came up because that's what "others" and suggested, and what LO had went with, though a direct TTK change similar to star would have done the trick. I myself didn't really care for LOs CQC nerfs, but figured that if they'll never touch the bloom recovery, and settled for welp, i guess the cqc changes are "enough". The weapon is supposed to be effective midrange. Midrange weapons like the obir, obeya, and ntec have similar ttks at range when you account for human error. However, in comparison to other AR's, there's a reason why NTEC outshines them drastically because of bloom recovery. Star and far have 3.5, obeya has 2.27, NTEC has 5.0.

 

I personally had little complaint about the CQC aspect of the NTEC, though I did find jumpshooting somewhat dumb with it and it could do well against other cqc weapons, i didn't find it too overpowering in cqc otherwise. I would have been happy with a jump shooting nerf along with reduced bloom recovery. But again, that didn't happen, so I settled with what they did, though I did say I didn't feel it was the right way to go about it initially. I just shut up about it and figured i might as well be happy they bothered to do anything.

But why make a gun identical to the star? That takes the whole argument of weapon diversity and throws it away. As i've stated before. The ntec isn't as easy as you say it is on paper. Yes you can number crunch all you want but that doesn't mean the performance matches. So sure it had a well designed kit if people used it well. A large amount of people could use it but not to the extend of the top end players. Also if you don't care about the cqc nerfs you don't need to keep bringing it up. I've stated already that i don't have a real issue with that change. Granted i think it wasn't need because its one of those things where if you're dying to it you're at fault.

16 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

PMG was forgotten in the sense that almost no one used it because they all switched to NTEC. They also stopped mentioning it in nerf threads despite what used to be almost monthly threads on it.

PMG was overbuffed in 2013. I know that, I used to use it prebuff. I even suggested on forums that it get buffed because the OCA was in a much better state (believe it or not i did want the original PMG buffed and never called to nerf the oca until they unnecessarily buffed it, in which i said revert it back to prebuff).

 

After the buff it became too strong so i primarily used OCA instead and stuck with it and shotguns. It's not hard to struggle against a PMG, PMG has higher damage in comparison to the OCA. Most of the time I get tagged 2-3 hits with a pmg, think i can peak 5cm from the corner to finish a kill and die before i can blink because god knows why lol. OCA doesn't do that, the damage scales less harsh from OCA so even thinking of peaking is safer.

 

"Plenty of people still use OCA" but go anywhere and you'll see far more PMGs, again, it got overbuffed. I don't want it hard nerfed, even if it's used a little more than OCA afterwords i'd be fine, however I feel they overbuffed it initially, and have stuck by that since 2013. Tap its range, crouch accuracy, or something slightly.

 

pmg perc used to be the big thing several years ago as well, so nothing really changed on that end. Same ol' same ol'

The pmg was NEVER forgotten. It has always had its place in apb. Its just more prominent now that the ntec is dead in the water after its constant nerfs. Its not as over buffed as you think it is. Its strong sure but its not OP. It sure didn't stop people from playing with the OCA either. It makes sense that the PMG has higher damage than the oca considering its RPM. Sure the OCA doesn't have as much range but thats the difference they hold. Again you dont see far more PMGs. Maybe now a days but definitely not before. 

[Fortune Runner 796]

20 minutes ago, RespectThis said:

But why make a gun identical to the star?

Disclaimer : not my opinion just what others have said in the past on the forums

 

Some people like guns that look and function similar to other guns , because they like the new look and not the old ones.

I'm sure people can name them off for APB guns that fit this.

 

that doesn't mean I want to change the star to be a clone of the ntec or any other gun , but a variety of looks for the same function is similar to clothing styling : everyone has their preferences

[Abduct / Devote 69]

3 minutes ago, Fortune Runner said:

Disclaimer : not my opinion just what others have said in the past on the forums

 

Some people like guns that look and function similar to other guns , because they like the new look and not the old ones.

I'm sure people can name them off for APB guns that fit this.

 

that doesn't mean I want to change the star to be a clone of the ntec or any other gun , but a variety of looks for the same function is similar to clothing styling : everyone has their preferences

Hello?!?!? THIS. THIS. This is why we can't have nice things

 

There's a large fking difference between a reskin gun designed to be one, and turning one INTO A RESKIN. I don't care that it's not your opinion, trust me I read that you claim it isn't. But this is wrong and the most incorrect way to "balance" things. The Ntec is not the STAR, nor should it be! Legit that mindset is why I claim what I do. 

 

This is one of the biggest things I am advocating against. Get that shiz outa here. 

 

The fact that you post a disclaimer to say it isn't your opinion, just to throw out something this utterly foolish, appalls me. Holy hell m8s. 

[Noob_Guardian 417]

1 hour ago, RespectThis said:

But why make a gun identical to the star? That takes the whole argument of weapon diversity and throws it away. As i've stated before. The ntec isn't as easy as you say it is on paper. Yes you can number crunch all you want but that doesn't mean the performance matches. So sure it had a well designed kit if people used it well. A large amount of people could use it but not to the extend of the top end players. Also if you don't care about the cqc nerfs you don't need to keep bringing it up. I've stated already that i don't have a real issue with that change. Granted i think it wasn't need because its one of those things where if you're dying to it you're at fault.

The pmg was NEVER forgotten. It has always had its place in apb. Its just more prominent now that the ntec is dead in the water after its constant nerfs. Its not as over buffed as you think it is. Its strong sure but its not OP. It sure didn't stop people from playing with the OCA either. It makes sense that the PMG has higher damage than the oca considering its RPM. Sure the OCA doesn't have as much range but thats the difference they hold. Again you dont see far more PMGs. Maybe now a days but definitely not before. 

I didn't want it to be identical to the star, and quite frankly the general idea was to maintain that both AR's STAR and NTEC, being F2P, one being better in CQC - mid, the other "mid". The STAR used to have a much slower bloom recovery (was is 2.5?or 3.0?) when I originally suggested the bloom reduction to 4.0.

 

The reason for the 4.0 would be tune it down a little in midrange for obeya/obir/snipers at 50-60m or so to do a little better. Though I will concede that 4.25 or so may be a better stat for the suggestion, rather than 4.0.

 

I'm fine with PMG having higher damage, i don't believe that it's very overbuffed. As I said, i wouldn't mind tweaking the crouch accuracy, or range on it slightly, however any other changes I wouldn't know about because I don't want to break it and make it useless, as it was buffed along a fine line. Most suggestions i've made directly to weapons, were generally "minor", 0.05ttk increases, or minor accuracy buffs, or ttk reductions. Though recently I had suggested "iterative" buff changes where one was minor, and if it wasn't good enough, try "this" stat change instead, mostly so that hey this didn't fix it but it made the weapon "stronger" they could then tweak it a little more hopefully without it breaking it.

 

I can't really say i see "far more" pmgs, i do not often see OCA's, and i see a lot more PMGs than OCAs generally. In the past they had been roughly equal, leaning towards PMG for edgelords and OCAs for most other people, but there had been a much larger pop, and OCA was still considered "good". I'm still confused as to why, the OCA still maintaining its accuracy buff, but not TTK reduction, is considered "trash" by some??? Like, OCA is still good guys, lol.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Noob_Guardian

[Fortune Runner 796]

1 hour ago, Abduct / Devote said:

Hello?!?!? THIS. THIS. This is why we can't have nice things

 

There's a large fking difference between a reskin gun designed to be one, and turning one INTO A RESKIN. I don't care that it's not your opinion, trust me I read that you claim it isn't. But this is wrong and the most incorrect way to "balance" things. The Ntec is not the STAR, nor should it be! Legit that mindset is why I claim what I do. 

 

This is one of the biggest things I am advocating against. Get that shiz outa here. 

 

The fact that you post a disclaimer to say it isn't your opinion, just to throw out something this utterly foolish, appalls me. Holy hell m8s. 

1. I never said I was talking about changing the star to ntec.

2.  I said some people like reskins like for example how there's guns that function similar to ntec but look different.

 

How many guns have been made to function similar to the ntec but look completely different?

People have their own styles get over it. Not everyone has to be you rofl

 

 

 

[Abduct / Devote 69]

4 minutes ago, Fortune Runner said:

1. I never said I was talking about changing the star to ntec.

2.  I said some people like reskins like for example how there's guns that function similar to ntec but look different.

 

How many guns have been made to function similar to the ntec but look completely different?

People have their own styles get over it. Not everyone has to be you rofl

 

 

 

Reread what I said. Look show stupid this post sounds. "I don't care that it's not your opinion, trust me I read that you claim it isn't." Hello? 

 

"People have their own styles get over it. Not everyone has to be you rofl" That doesn't/shouldn't determine a gun's fate yo. What. So if someone's style is sucking patootie with one that's the solution? just change it so they'll be better? No, you learn to get better with a gun. That's called progression. Get that through your head. 

 

I already acknowledged that you SAID that wasn't your opinion, but you clearly didn't read what I posted saying that. Why are you taking offense to it? This is why I call you on your bull dude. 

 

Again, the Ntec was not designed to be the star or similar, it was designed to be it's own gun. There is zero reason to change it to be more like the star, jesus christ.

 

And Borus, you quite literally mentioned that as why it should have been nerfed and why you were glad it was, the CQC aspect lol. Why do you guys backtrack randomly?

Edited June 5, 2020 by Abduct / Devote

[Fortune Runner 796]

1 minute ago, Abduct / Devote said:

Reread

take your own advice.

2 minutes ago, Abduct / Devote said:

Again, the Ntec was not designed to be the star or similar, it was designed to be it's own gun. There is zero reason to change it to be more like the star, jesus christ.

I said reskins of guns to make new guns. YOU said changing the star to ntec. apples n oranges.

4 minutes ago, Abduct / Devote said:

This is why I call you on your bull dude. 

I could say hi to someone and you'd be on me move along.

[Abduct / Devote 69]

13 minutes ago, Fortune Runner said:

take your own advice.

I said reskins of guns to make new guns. YOU said changing the star to ntec. apples n oranges.

I could say hi to someone and you'd be on me move along.

No, take your own advice. You didn't even read. You are also twisting things in your own head, lol. I actually ignored you earlier and you brought something stupid up. I'm going to call you out on it, sorry not sorry. How about you actually read what I post instead of nitpick to attempt to fit your own agenda? 

 

"Disclaimer : not my opinion just what others have said in the past on the forums"

but also you same post "that doesn't mean I want to change."

 

I thought this was not your opinion but yet you're treating it like your opinion. Weird...? 

 

Now stop being useless here thanks. I've discussed my issues with the Ntec and what's wrong, I don't think people who supposedly don't care about winning or losing should have a say thanks. 

[Fortune Runner 796]

39 minutes ago, Abduct / Devote said:

No, take your own advice. You didn't even read. You are also twisting things in your own head, lol. I actually ignored you earlier and you brought something stupid up. I'm going to call you out on it, sorry not sorry. How about you actually read what I post instead of nitpick to attempt to fit your own agenda? 

 

"Disclaimer : not my opinion just what others have said in the past on the forums"

but also you same post "that doesn't mean I want to change."

 

I thought this was not your opinion but yet you're treating it like your opinion. Weird...? 

 

Now stop being useless here thanks. I've discussed my issues with the Ntec and what's wrong, I don't think people who supposedly don't care about winning or losing should have a say thanks. 

 

2 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

Disclaimer : not my opinion just what others have said in the past on the forums

 

Some people like guns that look and function similar to other guns , because they like the new look and not the old ones.

I'm sure people can name them off for APB guns that fit this.

 

that doesn't mean I want to change the star to be a clone of the ntec or any other gun , but a variety of looks for the same function is similar to clothing styling : everyone has their preferences

 

Some people like reskins that look and function like other guns because they like the new look and not the old ones.

that means :  Some people like reskins that look and function like other guns because they like the new look and not the old ones.

 

I'm sure people can name them off for APB guns that fit this

that means : there are guns in APB that work like say , the ntec , that work the same but look different. you know a reskin ? ok good.

 

that doesn't mean I want to change the star to be a clone of the ntec or any other gun , but a variety of looks for the same function is similar to clothing styling : everyone has their preferences

that means : I am not talking about touching  the star and make an ntec clone. *BUT* means an exception to the following - making new looking guns some people would want for style looks.

 

 

 

Next :

2 hours ago, Abduct / Devote said:

Hello?!?!? THIS. THIS. This is why we can't have nice things

 

There's a large fking difference between a reskin gun designed to be one, and turning one INTO A RESKIN. I don't care that it's not your opinion, trust me I read that you claim it isn't. But this is wrong and the most incorrect way to "balance" things. The Ntec is not the STAR, nor should it be! Legit that mindset is why I claim what I do. 

 

This is one of the biggest things I am advocating against. Get that shiz outa here. 

 

The fact that you post a disclaimer to say it isn't your opinion, just to throw out something this utterly foolish, appalls me. Holy hell m8s. 

Where did I say ANYTHING about wanting to change the star to ntec? NOWHERE.  but you made a bee line for me saying otherwise.

 

1 hour ago, Abduct / Devote said:

Reread what I said. Look show stupid this post sounds. "I don't care that it's not your opinion, trust me I read that you claim it isn't." Hello? 

 

"People have their own styles get over it. Not everyone has to be you rofl" That doesn't/shouldn't determine a gun's fate yo. What. So if someone's style is sucking patootie with one that's the solution? just change it so they'll be better? No, you learn to get better with a gun. That's called progression. Get that through your head. 

 

I already acknowledged that you SAID that wasn't your opinion, but you clearly didn't read what I posted saying that. Why are you taking offense to it? This is why I call you on your bull dude. 

 

Again, the Ntec was not designed to be the star or similar, it was designed to be it's own gun. There is zero reason to change it to be more like the star, jesus christ.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Abduct / Devote said:

Reread

 

1 hour ago, Fortune Runner said:

take your own advice.

All of the above is why I said to reread what I said.

 

1 hour ago, Abduct / Devote said:

Again, the Ntec was not designed to be the star or similar, it was designed to be it's own gun. There is zero reason to change it to be more like the star, jesus christ.

 

1 hour ago, Fortune Runner said:

I said reskins of guns to make new guns. YOU said changing the star to ntec. apples n oranges.

And I did say that. YOU assumed anything you wanted about me yet again and in doing so tried putting words into my mouth , er hands , and now are blaming me for what you did to me.

 

1 hour ago, Abduct / Devote said:

This is why I call you on your bull dude. 

 

1 hour ago, Fortune Runner said:

I could say hi to someone and you'd be on me move along.

All of the above and other threads you make a bee line for me ,and still are at that , which is why I posted this above.

 

 

58 minutes ago, Abduct / Devote said:

No, take your own advice. You didn't even read. You are also twisting things in your own head, lol. I actually ignored you earlier and you brought something stupid up. I'm going to call you out on it, sorry not sorry. How about you actually read what I post instead of nitpick to attempt to fit your own agenda? 

 

"Disclaimer : not my opinion just what others have said in the past on the forums"

but also you same post "that doesn't mean I want to change."

 

I thought this was not your opinion but yet you're treating it like your opinion. Weird...? 

 

Now stop being useless here thanks. I've discussed my issues with the Ntec and what's wrong, I don't think people who supposedly don't care about winning or losing should have a say thanks. 

where did I twist anything? I even spelled it out for you yet again on this post. ( there's not that many oh this thread )

But YOU spliced my post since you ASSUMED a lot about me.

1 hour ago, Abduct / Devote said:

How about you actually read what I post instead of nitpick to attempt to fit your own agenda? 

 

"Disclaimer : not my opinion just what others have said in the past on the forums"

but also you same post "that doesn't mean I want to change."

 

I thought this was not your opinion but yet you're treating it like your opinion. Weird...? 

Once again : you assumed a lot about me without rereading what i said.  It was never my opinion on what you claimed my opinion was , but you are obsessed with saying it is.

 

1 hour ago, Abduct / Devote said:

No, take your own advice. You didn't even read. You are also twisting things in your own head, lol. I actually ignored you earlier and you brought something stupid up. I'm going to call you out on it, sorry not sorry. How about you actually read what I post instead of nitpick to attempt to fit your own agenda? 

 

If  you were ignoring me would you be all over me for any post? lol really? and once again take your own advice.

And I even spelled it out for you on this post but I'm willing to bet you will still get it wrong and say otherwise.

 

1 hour ago, Abduct / Devote said:

 

And Borus, you quite literally mentioned that as why it should have been nerfed and why you were glad it was, the CQC aspect lol. Why do you guys backtrack randomly?

Edited 56 minutes ago by Abduct / Devote

Now lets cover this yet again since you seem to be spiteful about the atac thread where I said the data collected by gun testing said cqc needed to be changed.

I  did not say it was my opinion on that thread but yet again you DEMAND I said otherwise.

I did say that if you didn't like the changes then to go suggest a retest for collecting data. by the way did you go suggest a retest since it bothers you so much? hmm ?

 

Link to that thread and posts :

 

 

and FINALLLLLLLY :

 

1 hour ago, Abduct / Devote said:

Now stop being useless here thanks. I've discussed my issues with the Ntec and what's wrong, I don't think people who supposedly don't care about winning or losing should have a say thanks. 

 

I had said on this thread about : at least 50 percent of people I have played against this past month had a n tec but it looked like more people than that.

and you  didn't hesitate to tart up on me. Is it productive for you to be all over me for no excuse on this thread ? Wouldn't that be counter productive (useless) instead ?

 

also to clarify :

1 hour ago, Abduct / Devote said:

I don't think people who supposedly don't care about winning or losing should have a say thanks. 

 

many of us play for fun and play to win but we do not get butt hurt over losing , but instead say gg , as in good game , good fight etc because we play for fun.

There's nothing wrong with being a good winner and a good loser , rather than a sore winner or a sore loser which there is plenty wrong with.

 

so once again  BYEEEEEE

 

[Noob_Guardian 417]

4 hours ago, Abduct / Devote said:

Yeah that's the thing Borus. You're allowed to have an opinion, but you shouldn't be balancing the game. If you're not one of the dedicated better players that actually knows what they're doing, I don't want you to "balance." If the nerf meta you guys so love was the right call, there wouldn't be more threads about nerfs all the time. There always is though, weird how that works! It's like I was right the whole time when I brought this up before. 

 

What if I told you that proper weapon balance isn't something you know how to do, and gets harder to do the more guns you add to the game! Shocker! If most players are enjoying it why is this game population not rising/sustaining? I see 1 playable district when I get on NA, at any time (missions). Yeah, really doing well :). I see a bronze district filled and a silver district constantly fluctuating on both sides, because we have: cheater paranoia all the time, and people don't like losing. Truly, look at any game where there's a shred of competition and has 2 sides.

 

Why is there a thread about so many gun nerfs now? because when you nerf something, you indirectly buff another. It's ok though, since that doesn't matter to YOU. But YOU and people with that mindset drive this game to a progressively bad state. That's my issue with you. Not that you know jack about gun balance, you truly don't as you abused the most broken aspects of anything you touched. Think you mentioned something about sportsmanship, but you fail to practice what you preach. 

 

Just a last statement to your final point, you say that you enjoy elitist attitudes because in "most games I've played they get consistently proven wrong." Weird that you're coincidentally wrong on many talking points you stated to me. One such example is the ATAC thread where you claimed they buffed the ATAC a month after release, but you didn't even know if that was true or not, just "thought" that was right.

 

The reason most vets quit wasn't because of cheaters, sorry cheating is a minority of the issue. Always has been whether you want to believe it or not. When any gun gets nerfed or changed, it affects other guns too, which is why the NTEC became "too good" in your eyes. It got nerfed more than once at this point, and if you ask me the only change that should have happened was the HB2 one, because that was crutch and I know you abused that one

 

Weapon nerfing is not always bad, but there are always repercussions, and the state of forums seems to agree with me. 

 

Also just saying, you twisted the whole point of my message, to fit your quote agenda, nothing unusual from the likes of you or people like-minded. You're always trying to downplay stuff you do and virtue signal on stuff like what I say. 

 

Biggest issues for new players: dethreaters. Not cheaters, not "weapon balancing." Weapon balancing is not what a new player should be discussing, nor a super casual one either. If you're truly that casual, why do you care?

No, I've had an issue with NTEC, not because another weapon got nerfed. I felt it needed nerfed for a while, they touched HB and I thought that would have fixed the issue with it, but it didn't. What weapon did they nerf to make NTEC an issue? It certainly wasn't the obeya,obir, or star, the only 3 weapons that in some form "somewhat" competed against the NTEC. Obeya got nerfed, but that wasn't why I had issues with NTEC either, even after it got buffed sooo.

 

State of the forums? Have you been on forums consistently since 2012? lol The state of the forums is actually normal atm, if not slow. Believe it or not lol.

 

True, dethreaters are an issue for new players, i've been saying that for years, and all my suggestions for it fell on deaf ears /shrug

 

Dunno, probably for the same reason so called competitive players care, if the game isn't balanced it isn't fun. If weapons like the C-9 ran rampant there's a problem and not fun, and isn't "competitive", just like if there's too many weapons like Odin series. Casual players want most weapons to be viable, even if they aren't meta. If something is too powerful in the meta, and buffing a non-meta weapon to that power level would litterally destroy balance, the only other option is to tone the meta weapon down slightly while buffing the non-meta. The primary point of casuals wanting balance is to make the game more "fun" and have a larger choice of weapons rather than what was called "the holy trinity" for an obvious reason.

 

If they were really that good they'd be able to accurately discuss weapon niches, ranges, and where one is strong, if one is too strong and where (if at all), and where the weapon is weak in comparison to other weapons within the same role and niche.

 

I didnt state the ATAC got buffed, I said it got nerfed within a month. I said to someone else that I didn't know that they buffed they atac. But please twist words lol.

 

Oh yes, I abused it, just like the majority of the playerbase. Ooooh im such a bad guy...

Edited June 5, 2020 by Noob_Guardian

[Abduct / Devote 69]

24 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

No, I've had an issue with NTEC, not because another weapon got nerfed. I felt it needed nerfed for a while, they touched HB and I thought that would have fixed the issue with it, but it didn't. What weapon did they nerf to make NTEC an issue? It certainly wasn't the obeya,obir, or star, the only 3 weapons that in some form "somewhat" competed against the NTEC. Obeya got nerfed, but that wasn't why I had issues with NTEC either, even after it got buffed sooo.

 

State of the forums? Have you been on forums consistently since 2012? lol The state of the forums is actually normal atm, if not slow. Believe it or not lol.

 

True, dethreaters are an issue for new players, i've been saying that for years, and all my suggestions for it fell on deaf ears /shrug

 

Dunno, probably for the same reason so called competitive players care, if the game isn't balanced it isn't fun. If weapons like the C-9 ran rampant there's a problem and not fun, and isn't "competitive", just like if there's too many weapons like Odin series. Casual players want most weapons to be viable, even if they aren't meta. If something is too powerful in the meta, and buffing a non-meta weapon to that power level would litterally destroy balance, the only other option is to tone the meta weapon down slightly while buffing the non-meta. The primary point of casuals wanting balance is to make the game more "fun" and have a larger choice of weapons rather than what was called "the holy trinity" for an obvious reason.

 

If they were really that good they'd be able to accurately discuss weapon niches, ranges, and where one is strong, if one is too strong and where (if at all), and where the weapon is weak in comparison to other weapons within the same role and niche.

 

I didnt state the ATAC got buffed, I said it got nerfed within a month. I said to someone else that I didn't know that they buffed they atac. But please twist words lol.

 

Oh yes, I abused it, just like the majority of the playerbase. Ooooh im such a bad guy...

You claim to be sportsmanlike and a casual, yet abuse the things that are most broken. Your go to was HVR, not Ntec. The only time I saw you use ntec was with hb2. Weird?

 

You're a hypocrite, through and through. I do think you're in the wrong here, because you're actually such a joke. 

 

Borus, regardless if it was nerfed or buffed, you still were basing that off of something you claimed to have knowledge of, and to why you should have a say in gun balance, yet had no clue in fact about the very thing you were discussing a nerf on. 

 

@fortune runner, I'm not gonna bother quoting all that man you sure had fun slice and splicing everything. You know that post where you claimed that wasn't your opinion, then instantly said "I'm not saying to?" Yeah you proved it was your opinion lol, either that or you did one hell of a typo :). 

You sure love all these stats and all that, but you NEVER back up any of that. None of you seemed to have shown me huh. I don't need to assume anything when you expose yourself every time.

 

I think you mentioned I love going after you, man you and borus sure love this "oh yeah im the bad guy..." kind of thing. You're always trying to deflect from everything, and all criticism with more and more bullsh*t. 

 

Kinda weird how you guys love playing the victim!

 

And yes borus, I was consistently on forums through 2016/2017. Pretty active until then! You're actually pretty hilarious grasping for straws at this point.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Abduct / Devote

[Noob_Guardian 417]

51 minutes ago, Abduct / Devote said:

You claim to be sportsmanlike and a casual, yet abuse the things that are most broken. Your go to was HVR, not Ntec. The only time I saw you use ntec was with hb2. Weird?

 

You're a hypocrite, through and through. I do think you're in the wrong here, because you're actually such a joke. 

 

Borus, regardless if it was nerfed or buffed, you still were basing that off of something you claimed to have knowledge of, and to why you should have a say in gun balance, yet had no clue in fact about the very thing you were discussing a nerf on. 

 

@fortune runner, I'm not gonna bother quoting all that man you sure had fun slice and splicing everything. You know that post where you claimed that wasn't your opinion, then instantly said "I'm not saying to?" Yeah you proved it was your opinion lol, either that or you did one hell of a typo :). 

You sure love all these stats and all that, but you NEVER back up any of that. None of you seemed to have shown me huh. I don't need to assume anything when you expose yourself every time.

 

I think you mentioned I love going after you, man you and borus sure love this "oh yeah im the bad guy..." kind of thing. You're always trying to deflect from everything, and all criticism with more and more bullsh*t. 

 

Kinda weird how you guys love playing the victim!

 

And yes borus, I was consistently on forums through 2016/2017. Pretty active until then! You're actually pretty hilarious grasping for straws at this point.

 

I have never claimed to be completely sportsmanlike. Though I do never say gg unless the losing team does, when it came to weapon usage or tactics, if the enemy or his teammate did it (at any point), it was fair game. Use ntec with HB or QS at any point? Congrats, I won't feel bad about giving you your own medicine. Keep calling me a hypocrite if it makes you feel better, but you know damn well that HB and qsing was used extensively even by high ranking clans and players back then. I don't feel bad about calling for their nerf/removal while using it.

 

You clearly missed me using NTEC without out it then. You know, before I maxed my rifleman level and switched over to pointman, maxed that and now am leveling the other 3 remaining. But that's nothing new since you've never actually grouped with me and only played in the same team, like.. once or twice a year lol.

 

I don't need to grasp at straws, there's been little change in the forums since then, aside from fewer overall posts.

 

I don't need to play victim when you started namecalling first and calling others "bad players". /shrug, don't need to play victim at that point.

[Abduct / Devote 69]

13 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

 

I have never claimed to be completely sportsmanlike. Though I do never say gg unless the losing team does, when it came to weapon usage or tactics, if the enemy or his teammate did it (at any point), it was fair game. Use ntec with HB or QS at any point? Congrats, I won't feel bad about giving you your own medicine. Keep calling me a hypocrite if it makes you feel better, but you know damn well that HB and qsing was used extensively even by high ranking clans and players back then. I don't feel bad about calling for their nerf/removal while using it.

 

You clearly missed me using NTEC without out it then. You know, before I maxed my rifleman level and switched over to pointman, maxed that and now am leveling the other 3 remaining. But that's nothing new since you've never actually grouped with me and only played in the same team, like.. once or twice a year lol.

 

I don't need to grasp at straws, there's been little change in the forums since then, aside from fewer overall posts.

 

I don't need to play victim when you started namecalling first and calling others "bad players". /shrug, don't need to play victim at that point.

"I never did this I never did this" You preached it all the time, and asked for it, lol. Was I name calling you here? No, I was staying on topic and actually posting well. So take your obsession with the victim role out of here. You and Runner both expose yourselves every post on how you're wrong/hypocritical.

 

I Used ntec without HB, never with. QS? I've done it, I never claimed to not though. You're the one who acted "holier than thou" on that spectrum. You claim you're casual yes? or you gonna backtrack that one too? 

 

If you are casual, you should not have any say in the competitive aspects of the game like weapon balancing. Period. You supposedly don't care at that point, so that argument already sailed as soon as you admitted to being casual. 

 

Bye ~

[RespectThis 121]

4 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

I didn't want it to be identical to the star, and quite frankly the general idea was to maintain that both AR's STAR and NTEC, being F2P, one being better in CQC - mid, the other "mid". The STAR used to have a much slower bloom recovery (was is 2.5?or 3.0?) when I originally suggested the bloom reduction to 4.0.

 

The reason for the 4.0 would be tune it down a little in midrange for obeya/obir/snipers at 50-60m or so to do a little better. Though I will concede that 4.25 or so may be a better stat for the suggestion, rather than 4.0.

 

I'm fine with PMG having higher damage, i don't believe that it's very overbuffed. As I said, i wouldn't mind tweaking the crouch accuracy, or range on it slightly, however any other changes I wouldn't know about because I don't want to break it and make it useless, as it was buffed along a fine line. Most suggestions i've made directly to weapons, were generally "minor", 0.05ttk increases, or minor accuracy buffs, or ttk reductions. Though recently I had suggested "iterative" buff changes where one was minor, and if it wasn't good enough, try "this" stat change instead, mostly so that hey this didn't fix it but it made the weapon "stronger" they could then tweak it a little more hopefully without it breaking it.

And again the ntec was fine where it was after the hb2 change. The star was tweaked making it better. There were no issues there for them being f2p. But now look at it. You have 2 f2p guns the ntec being a absolute dumpster fire and the star being the star. Ya sure you can get other guns from armas from the joker store but you really think new players or players in general have the tickets for that? You can also say that the ntec is easy to use. What gun in apb isn't easy to use? They're all easy but there is a huge difference between someone who plays casually such as you (as you've admitted in other posts) and someone who plays in very coordinated teams and use guns they excel at and have mastered to win.

Quote

In the past they had been roughly equal

 

22 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

"Plenty of people still use OCA" but go anywhere and you'll see far more PMGs, again, it got overbuffed. 

 Which one is it? Equal or more PMGs? Regardless as i stated its not an issue people just complain about it to complain.

Edited June 6, 2020 by RespectThis

[Flaws 1033]

The more they listen to clueless silvers - the faster they kill their own game and its already becoming apparent.

 

From a fun gameplay experience which had some variety we're now stuck with point and click easy peasy guns (shotguns/snipers) and the easiest W + LMB spray and pray guns dominating the field. Unless, you actually want to call a whole pile of mediocre, boring guns with a low skill-ceiling and no potential - "VARIETY" LOL (which is what we get now). All that was done was the skill ceiling got lowered significantly across the board and the game was made unfun, boring and frustrating for anyone above mediocre skill level.

 

And yeah sure, hurr durr the N-TEC was ruined but the N-TEC isn't the first and will not be the last either and thats what concerns me the most. 

 

You'll see more and more players leave, I've already seen plenty leave recently for a multitude of reasons but weapon changes definitely play one of the big roles in that. No one that takes their own time and effort seriously will accept getting blasted by obvious noobs thanks to RNG and because weapons no longer allow for talented players to excercise their talent for very long. And let me assure you, APB will never make it as a scuffed, off-brand GTA which is what these most of these forum warriors' vision seems to be for it, even if they don't quite seem to realise it.

 

You can huff and puff and pour your entire hearts into a thread about how X nerf and Y nerf were "necessary" only after the fact (not like you would know whats objectively necessary and what isn't for the game) all you want but at the end of the day, its all based on your emotions and your hate for the few things that made this game's gameplay fun and tolerable over the years, which you couldn't quite be a part of, you didn't want to or you don't have what it takes.

 

All the casual players who didn't put much time into learning the game will easily move on to other games if APB shuts down without much care but the players that actually put thousands of hours and tons of effort, in most cases thousands of dollars too, are being cut short because of clueless delusional people that won't notice or suffer the consequences. Just to clarify, there is nothing wrong with being silver/casual/noob but there is objectively no reason why that category of players should ever have a say in how a game is designed and balanced. They don't in any other game and they shouldn't here either. There should be a group of carefully picked out high skill players that are verified who should have a say in how everything is balanced, just like in any other game and then everyone (that cares) strives to master it. If you're bad - you're bad, period - no crutches, no JGs, no ATACs, no Medusas, no HVRs, no NFAS, no W+LMB, no point and click around corners dominating everything else, no broken remote detonator, no grenade spamming, no car gameplay, etc etc. And I'm not suggesting that they should be removed from the game, but simply balanced so that they don't serve as crutches for dickheads and lazy people who want easy kills and wins without putting in real effort.

 

Also, new players don't look at the weapon balancing of a game when they try it out. If your game sucks and is unappealing to a new player and has no proper tutorial, they will leave even if you have the most robust weapon balancing in the industry because they will never get to see it anyway. Noobs also don't care about balance because they just use whatever they feel like using regardless of how good it is, that whole thing is completely beyond their understanding or care.

 

Stop destroying guns, revert most of the gun changes and mainly focus on the new player experience instead. If things get reverted (save for things like Yukon), weapon balancing can wait until after the engine upgrade. Its quite simple really. You need to give an incentive for the players that kept the game alive for so long to stick around until after the engine and that incentive is currently being stripped away through these mindless changes.

[Noob_Guardian 417]

2 hours ago, RespectThis said:

And again the ntec was fine where it was after the hb2 change. The star was tweaked making it better. There were no issues there for them being f2p. But now look at it. You have 2 f2p guns the ntec being a absolute dumpster fire and the star being the star. Ya sure you can get other guns from armas from the joker store but you really think new players or players in general have the tickets for that? You can also say that the ntec is easy to use. What gun in apb isn't easy to use? They're all easy but there is a huge difference between someone who plays casually such as you (as you've admitted in other posts) and someone who plays in very coordinated teams and use guns they excel at and have mastered to win.

 

 Which one is it? Equal or more PMGs? Regardless as i stated its not an issue people just complain about it to complain.

You "used" to see almost no pmgs at all. Then it got buffed and you used to see so many it was overbearing. Yes you saw OCAs, yes "sometimes" you saw just as many in a district, however most of the time PMG was used more. PMG didn't gain "holytrinity" status by being equal to OCA lol.

[Abduct / Devote 69]

40 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

You "used" to see almost no pmgs at all. Then it got buffed and you used to see so many it was overbearing. Yes you saw OCAs, yes "sometimes" you saw just as many in a district, however most of the time PMG was used more. PMG didn't gain "holytrinity" status by being equal to OCA lol.

I just wanna point out that the holy trinity status didn't mean they were broken op. You seem think think they were, but the Ntec was actually... not. It wasn't my goto in every situation. I always preferred OCA (yeah I get that user preference is a thing here, so that doesn't mean too much) for cqc or a shotgun, and for long range HVR was usually the best bet as much as I hated it. If any weapon was picked as a crutch, it was HVR. I do agree that there was a holy trinity going on, don't get me wrong on that point. I do think Ntec was in it, I just don't agree that it was OP in that status. It wasn't a must pick or lose. 

[RespectThis 121]

42 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

You "used" to see almost no pmgs at all. Then it got buffed and you used to see so many it was overbearing. Yes you saw OCAs, yes "sometimes" you saw just as many in a district, however most of the time PMG was used more. PMG didn't gain "holytrinity" status by being equal to OCA lol.

Not even sometimes. It was pretty balanced for a majority of APB's lifespan up until now. Honestly i'd say that the two (OCA and PMG) could be interchanged as the trinity weapon. Because good oca players are very annoying to deal with as well. Its really user preference. From personal experience i can definitely say i've struggled way more against the OCA. Just because its Holy Trinity doesn't make it op broken. Just means its the strongest in its class.

[Noob_Guardian 417]

3 hours ago, Flaws said:

The more they listen to clueless silvers - the faster they kill their own game and its already becoming apparent.

 

From a fun gameplay experience which had some variety we're now stuck with point and click easy peasy guns (shotguns/snipers) and the easiest W + LMB spray and pray guns dominating the field. Unless, you actually want to call a whole pile of mediocre, boring guns with a low skill-ceiling and no potential - "VARIETY" LOL (which is what we get now). All that was done was the skill ceiling got lowered significantly across the board and the game was made unfun, boring and frustrating for anyone above mediocre skill level.

 

And yeah sure, hurr durr the N-TEC was ruined but the N-TEC isn't the first and will not be the last either and thats what concerns me the most. 

 

You'll see more and more players leave, I've already seen plenty leave recently for a multitude of reasons but weapon changes definitely play one of the big roles in that. No one that takes their own time and effort seriously will accept getting blasted by obvious noobs thanks to RNG and because weapons no longer allow for talented players to excercise their talent for very long. And let me assure you, APB will never make it as a scuffed, off-brand GTA which is what these most of these forum warriors' vision seems to be for it, even if they don't quite seem to realise it.

 

You can huff and puff and pour your entire hearts into a thread about how X nerf and Y nerf were "necessary" only after the fact (not like you would know whats objectively necessary and what isn't for the game) all you want but at the end of the day, its all based on your emotions and your hate for the few things that made this game's gameplay fun and tolerable over the years, which you couldn't quite be a part of, you didn't want to or you don't have what it takes.

 

All the casual players who didn't put much time into learning the game will easily move on to other games if APB shuts down without much care but the players that actually put thousands of hours and tons of effort, in most cases thousands of dollars too, are being cut short because of clueless delusional people that won't notice or suffer the consequences. Just to clarify, there is nothing wrong with being silver/casual/noob but there is objectively no reason why that category of players should ever have a say in how a game is designed and balanced. They don't in any other game and they shouldn't here either. There should be a group of carefully picked out high skill players that are verified who should have a say in how everything is balanced, just like in any other game and then everyone (that cares) strives to master it. If you're bad - you're bad, period - no crutches, no JGs, no ATACs, no Medusas, no HVRs, no NFAS, no W+LMB, no point and click around corners dominating everything else, no broken remote detonator, no grenade spamming, no car gameplay, etc etc. And I'm not suggesting that they should be removed from the game, but simply balanced so that they don't serve as crutches for dickheads and lazy people who want easy kills and wins without putting in real effort.

 

Also, new players don't look at the weapon balancing of a game when they try it out. If your game sucks and is unappealing to a new player and has no proper tutorial, they will leave even if you have the most robust weapon balancing in the industry because they will never get to see it anyway. Noobs also don't care about balance because they just use whatever they feel like using regardless of how good it is, that whole thing is completely beyond their understanding or care.

 

Stop destroying guns, revert most of the gun changes and mainly focus on the new player experience instead. If things get reverted (save for things like Yukon), weapon balancing can wait until after the engine upgrade. Its quite simple really. You need to give an incentive for the players that kept the game alive for so long to stick around until after the engine and that incentive is currently being stripped away through these mindless changes.

 

 Nerfing the ntec twice in 7 years didn't drastically lower the skill cieling (how is supposedly making a weapon "harder" as so many people claim "lowering the skill ceiling?), removing jump shooting didn't do it because that was a glitch and broken beyond belief. Have cover? Cool now i jump aaand you die (how's that competitive?). Nerfing the so called "high skill ceiling qsing" (yes people did call it high skill to qs back then), and buffing a few weaker weapons and nerfing overtuned ones surely won't zerg the games skill ceiling.

 

Don't pretend that APB had/has a high skill ceiling. Firing an NTEC at .19 intervals isn't a difficult feat. Jump scout and QSing weren't hard, CSG prenerf wasn't hard. Firing an obeya or obir isn't hard. Most weapons aren't "hard" or even "high skill" unless they actually suck, like the ODIN's, the OSCP, the Harbinger, ltl, ISSR-a, and current Tommy gun. The holy trinity aren't hard, oscar and carbine aren't hard. I can't say that I know any weapon that isn't an actual trash tier weapon that can be "high skill"  But i guess that's because actually using them takes more effort and more skill than "meta".

 

Lol, i spent like 2-3k on the game, own most weapons char bound and can use pretty much all of them effectively (except like, ISSR-A because i havn't really bothered with it), because I get bored using a single weapon 24/7 and have to switch it up every few matches. Have 3 primary weapon roles max (including pistols/grenades ofc) and the rest at 15. Do I qualify?

 

Those "crutches" wouldn't even be an issue if people played around them properly. Playing competitive shouldn't mean playing stupid (like sitting in the open on a road). Besides, if people are so competitive what's the issue with "crutch" weapons or tactics like car pushing? If competitive players are so good why are they an issue? They shouldn't be. I don't have issues with atacs, jgs, medusas, nfas's or hvrs. But then again, I pay attention to every enemy location that I can and the timing it takes from point A to B for them, and me, as well as weapon ranges of each person. I "may" only die to carbomb once or twice a match. Once because I push into the vehicle like a dummy, the next time because I wasn't watching my radar while on the road. You'd be hard pressed to have me die consistently to a car bomb, or any explosive that isn't a volcano (while im getting point)

Edited June 6, 2020 by Noob_Guardian