The hell did you do to the bounty system

[TheHidden-Tember 142]

APB may be a competitive experience for some of you, however it really shouldn't try that hard to be a genereic shooter. APB should be its own unique game.

 

I play this game to have FUN

 

The bounty system was a GREAT negative feedback system because it gave good players an additionnal penalty (being killable by anyone in the district) which is a GREAT mechanic.

The ONLY thing that remains and that you forgot to change is that as an enforcer, killing a bounty STILL drops your prestige to 0.

 

This was a thing way back when killing criminal bounties as crim would bring you money as a way to keep enforcers from killing each other as bounties, but it has been unchanged since the inception of APB.

The only point of bounties now is to lose all my standing by mistake if I do a teamkill.

Also it's kind of jarring to see bounties everywhere on the map screen but I'm not allowed to kill them.

Give it back.

Also please stop changing this game one tiny tweak at a time, if you wanted to change the bounty system you should have completely revamped everything and every ramification of it, not just disable district fire.
---

Slowly turning APB into a generic shooter experience but with bad netcode.
Slowly removing everything that makes this game unique.
Slowly turning copsVScrims into blueVSred

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edit:
To clarify. The way I see it, changing the bounty system as a whole is not necessarely a bad thing. But it HAS to be a coherent change, not just a slapped-on one. Among the things that should be changed:
- the map screen shouldn't even show bounties anymore unless they're in your mission
- killing your own bounty as a cop shouldn't result in 0 standing if you're going the "copsVScrims = blueVSred" route.
- You shouldn't even be able to SEE the bounty icon above the head of someone you can't shoot. It serves no purpose

Edited February 6, 2020 by TheHidden-Tember

[Fortune Runner 796]

4 minutes ago, TheHidden-Tember said:

 

where have you been when we discussed this on the  main thread for this ?

[TheHidden-Tember 142]

2 minutes ago, Fortune Runner said:

where have you been when we discussed this on the  main thread for this ?

vacation I guess.
Given what i'm seeing now I'll probably go back to that.

[Lign 361]

Why should I be punished for being good?

[Flaws 1033]

Another one of these threads complaining about the now improved state of the bounty system. The bounty system is absolutely ATROCIOUS at it's core and that's an understatement. The LEAST they could do is what they did with the latest update to it and it is a very welcome and commendable change. APB is competitive at it's core, whether people like it or not and that should be obvious considering it's gameplay focus. The way everything is structured, the missions, the combat and so on is incredibly obviously competitive oriented but they added a few features that got in the way of that and the bounty system is one of those. GTA is where it's at if you want a casual and "fun"-oriented experience, if you can even call something so distasterous as the bounty system fun in any capacity. It was just there to punish you for being actually good at the game and nothing else, it added nothing of value to the actual game and only took away from the already RNG-ridden disaster this game currently is. There are so many other things that need to get removed or changed that casuals think are just fine to be in a game that clearly tried to be competitive since it's creation.

[TheHidden-Tember 142]

2 minutes ago, Flaws said:

 The way everything is structured, the missions, the combat and so on is incredibly obviously competitive oriented

Yes, the way missions are asymetrical where one of the team must go through 5 stages with a timer to THEN have a chance at a fair final mission but before that they can lose at any stage  is 100% competitive oriented.

[Lign 361]

4 minutes ago, Flaws said:

Another one of these threads complaining about the now improved state of the bounty system. The bounty system is absolutely ATROCIOUS at it's core and that's an understatement. The LEAST they could do is what they did with the latest update to it and it is a very welcome and commendable change. APB is competitive at it's core, whether people like it or not and that should be obvious considering it's gameplay focus. The way everything is structured, the missions, the combat and so on is incredibly obviously competitive oriented but they added a few features that got in the way of that and the bounty system is one of those. GTA is where it's at if you want a casual and "fun"-oriented experience, if you can even call something so distasterous as the bounty system fun in any capacity. It was just there to punish you for being actually good at the game and nothing else, it added nothing of value to the actual game and only took away from the already RNG-ridden disaster this game currently is. There are so many other things that need to get removed or changed that casuals think are just fine to be in a game that clearly tried to be competitive since it's creation.

I don't understand why some people think that it's possible to have pvp base and not-competitive game together. Even browser pvp games are competitive and have some sort of tournaments. Minecraft pvp servers are so competitive as well with all this youtube videos explaining to get faster cps. Any pvp game is competitive by it's nature

Edited February 6, 2020 by Lign

[TheHidden-Tember 142]

5 minutes ago, Lign said:

Why should I be punished for being good?

have you ever played mario kart?

Have you ever used a blue shell?

 

Blue shells are good.

[Lign 361]

Just now, TheHidden-Tember said:

have you ever played mario kart?

Have you ever used a blue shell?

 

Blue shells are good.

Wow, mario kart, it's a pvp based  shooter, wow. Nice comparison

[TheHidden-Tember 142]

Just now, Lign said:

Wow, mario kart, it's a pvp based  shooter, wow. Nice comparison

it's called a negative feedback loop. If you're doing good, it gets harder to do good. 

This allows new players to have a chance and find fun in the game.

Biggest problem we currently have is that new players just leave the game because matchmaking can't handle them.
Every negative feedback loop could help against this problem.

[Lign 361]

Just now, TheHidden-Tember said:

it's called a negative feedback loop. If you're doing good, it gets harder to do good. 

This allows new players to have a chance and find fun in the game.

Biggest problem we currently have is that new players just leave the game because matchmaking can't handle them.
Every negative feedback loop could help against this problem.

Why do the game gives me opposition consisted of new players, first of all. 

[TheHidden-Tember 142]

2 minutes ago, Lign said:

Why do the game gives me opposition consisted of new players, first of all. 

because not enough players play this game for matchmaking to work properly I guess.
Because new players leave the game so barely anyone remains.

I mean when I play this I see a district with max 40 players on each side. That means 10 teams on each side.
Can YOU write an algorithm that sorts 10 teams objectively in order of threat? I don't think anyone can.
So instead the game puts new players against you, you probably destroy them, and they never come back.

Mind you, this is ALSO something that should be worked on and solved. Robust Matchmaking and negative feedback loops are NOT mutually exclusive.

Edited February 6, 2020 by TheHidden-Tember

[Westford 165]

31 minutes ago, TheHidden-Tember said:

Also it's kind of jarring to see bounties everywhere on the map screen but I'm not allowed to kill them.

This is what's confusing for me.

 

There may be some bounties that are not in mission, but the only indicator of this that I am aware of,

is to shoot them.

 

If they are out of mission they will take damage, if they are in mission, they won't.

 

Seems kind of wonky, or is this a bug ?

 

Shouldn't there be some indicator to determine if the bounty is in mission vs not in mission ?

Edited February 6, 2020 by Westford

[TheHidden-Tember 142]

Just now, Westford said:

This what's confusing from me.

 

There may be some bounties that are not in mission, but the only indicator of this that I am aware of,

is to shoot them.

 

If they are out of mission they will take damage, if they are in mission, they won't.

 

Seems kind of wonky, or is this a bug ?

 

Shouldn't there be some indicator to determine if the bounty is in mission vs not in mission ?

This isn't a bug, this is the devs FORGETTING to update every sub-mechanic related to bounties.
Instead they probably just toggled the switch that says "people outside mission can interact with you" and left it at that.
Bandaid patch.

[Lign 361]

3 minutes ago, TheHidden-Tember said:

because not enough players play this game for matchmaking to work properly I guess.
Because new players leave the game so barely anyone remains.

I mean when I play this I see a district with max 40 players on each side. That means 10 teams on each side.
Can YOU write an algorithm that sorts 10 teams objectively in order of threat? I don't think anyone can.
So instead the game puts new players against you, you probably destroy them, and they never come back.

Mind you, this is ALSO something that should be worked on and solved. Robust Matchmaking and negative feedback loops are NOT mutually exclusive.

Bro, if you're saying that apb is not competitive, we don't need a proper matchmaking at all, make newbies running against vets, no need for weapon balance, vehicle balance. We don't need threats and threat segregation either, it's not a competitive game

[TheHidden-Tember 142]

Look, to clarify. The way I see it, changing the bounty system as a whole is not necessarely a bad thing. But it HAS to be a coherent change, not just a slapped-on one. Among the things that should be changed:
- the map screen shouldn't even show bounties anymore unless they're in your mission
- killing your own bounty as a cop shouldn't result in 0 standing if you're going the "copsVScrims = blueVSred" route.
- You shouldn't even be able to SEE the bounty icon above the head of someone you can't shoot. It serves no purpose

Just now, Lign said:

Bro, if you're saying that apb is not competitive, we don't need a proper matchmaking at all, make newbies running against vets, no need for weapon balance, vehicle balance. We don't need threats and threat segregation either, it's not a competitive game

This IS completely true. I'm of the opinion that we don't need visible threat segregation.

But the internal systems to matchmake players could be worked on.

[Lign 361]

1 minute ago, TheHidden-Tember said:

Look, to clarify. The way I see it, changing the bounty system as a whole is not necessarely a bad thing. But it HAS to be a coherent change, not just a slapped-on one. Among the things that should be changed:
- the map screen shouldn't even show bounties anymore unless they're in your mission
- killing your own bounty as a cop shouldn't result in 0 standing if you're going the "copsVScrims = blueVSred" route.
- You shouldn't even be able to SEE the bounty icon above the head of someone you can't shoot. It serves no purpose

bounty is one of the these useless systems that don't add anything into the game. Even if we're talking about fun, non-competitive experience, I had no fun when some random silver comes to me and kills me with his nfas while I'm focusing at my opposition

[CookiePuss 5373]

29 minutes ago, TheHidden-Tember said:

vacation I guess

Don't leave us hanging... how was it?

[Lign 361]

2 minutes ago, TheHidden-Tember said:

This IS completely true. I'm of the opinion that we don't need visible threat segregation.

But the internal systems to matchmake players could be worked on.

Shouldn't work because it's not competitive game.

[Westford 165]

3 minutes ago, TheHidden-Tember said:

This isn't a bug, this is the devs FORGETTING to update every sub-mechanic related to bounties.
Instead they probably just toggled the switch that says "people outside mission can interact with you" and left it at that.
Bandaid patch.

I envision the following scenario;

 

Bounties across the map, some in mission, some not.

Players out of mission start to ignore all bounties, as their experience has been they can no longer interact with them. (Shoot them)

 

An out of mission bounty starts shooting and killing all nearby players, because players have ignored them.

 

 

4 minutes ago, TheHidden-Tember said:

- You shouldn't even be able to SEE the bounty icon above the head of someone you can't shoot. It serves no purpose

This would be a big help.

Makes sense.

 

 

[TheHidden-Tember 142]

1 minute ago, CookiePuss said:

Don't leave us hanging... how was it?

it was great
Played a bunch of actual games.
Made a bunch of actual games too (I'm a game designer now)
None of those had the social vibe I had with APB though, so I hop back in from time to time.

I'm considering making a solo game with the core systems of APB (the missions system, the bounty system, and other core things)
 

 

2 minutes ago, Lign said:

Shouldn't work because it's not competitive game.

The game not being competitive has nothing to do with new players having a bad time though.

You can't just use "if this game is not competitive then none of the features of a competitive game are required" as an argument.
 

[Flaws 1033]

4 minutes ago, TheHidden-Tember said:

Yes, the way missions are asymetrical where one of the team must go through 5 stages with a timer to THEN have a chance at a fair final mission but before that they can lose at any stage  is 100% competitive oriented.

I already said that the game is incredibly RNG-ridden which is what gets in the way of it being truly competitive but that doesn't change the fact that it was made with it being competitive in mind. Let's not forget that even final stages aren't fair a lot of the time such as VIP or some bomb missions. Even deathmatch needs a rework because giving everyone wallhack and being able to run is not competitive in any capacity. But then combat and other mechanics such as not being able to kill players in cars, having up to 100m range, no headshots and so on are clearly features that were put in with something in mind. Also, like Lign said, if it's PvP then it's competitive. Whether you play it to compete or not does not decide what it is supposed to be for everyone else.

1 minute ago, TheHidden-Tember said:

it's called a negative feedback loop. If you're doing good, it gets harder to do good. 

This allows new players to have a chance and find fun in the game.

Biggest problem we currently have is that new players just leave the game because matchmaking can't handle them.
Every negative feedback loop could help against this problem.

That's not how it works in other games with a competitive nature and it shouldn't in this either if it wants to have any future beyond 2020. It's a competitive wannabe game that has so many RNG mechanics (such as the bounty system) that deter most competitive players so they go play something like CS:GO where skill actually matters. APB is one of the very few games I can think of where people who are leagues underneath you can win due to RNG or broken loadouts or running but then once you put some arranged match rules in, suddenly the game becomes times more enjoyable and skill based.

 

The matchmaking system has nothing to do with the bounty system or any of the RNG, it's just more things that need fixing so the game can become semi-playable as what it was meant to be. Games like CS:GO and R6S have proper matchmaking and they don't punish you for being good and they attract new players on the daily.

[TheHidden-Tember 142]

1 minute ago, Flaws said:

The matchmaking system has nothing to do with the bounty system or any of the RNG, it's just more things that need fixing so the game can become semi-playable as what it was meant to be. Games like CS:GO and R6S have proper matchmaking and they don't punish you for being good and they attract new players on the daily.

As I said before, games like CS GO and R6 have proper matchmaking BECAUSE they have thousands of players at any given time.

Can't do that in APB. Default matchmaking algorithms are bound to be bad if you only have 40 players on.
Also YES, fixing the matchmaking IS a good thing. It's just REALLY hard to do in the game's current pop state.

Just imagine that none of the teams can be balanced so the system tries to pit whoever can against each other.

[SmilyFace 300]

It's ok for me anyway. Looks better.

[TheHidden-Tember 142]

Just now, AlishaAzure said:

It's ok for me anyway. Looks better.

Did anything change visually?
One of my complaints here is that the system had a slight change but none of the UI elements did.