OSCAR with CJ

[Thial 176]

2 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

I apologize if I came across as mocking. Tact has never been my strong suit, but I promise that wasn't my intention. 

 

Though in the end, I will always prefer facts over anecdotal evidence. 

 

And btw, if a sniper is missing you while peaking, they aren't very good at sniping. Especially considering they have more time to react in your scenario vs mine, and snipers being nearly pixel perfect accurate. 

 

But as I said and as I always will tell people, if something works better for you, whether it's mod setup or a play style, then stick with it.  

 

 

I have no ill will either so sorry if I'm getting a bit tilted but I'm really not writing out of my patootie. What I'm saying is based on my experiences so surely you should take it with a grain of salt as not everything that works for me will work for you.

On average it takes 250ms (depends on the person) for initial input from your eyes to result in an action (in this case shooting). Less if you train yourself of course.
If you can do the quickscope lean ADS shot in somewhere around that amount of time there's a good chance the person won't be able to even react to it or will shoot after you will be long gone behind the corner.
 

With such quick actions this has nothing to do with actual skill but it's down to how human body functions.
 

Also doing ADS for extended periods of time can actually slow down your reaction time as you lose your focus so you actually have an advantage over your opponent in majority of cases because you are executing a very quick action with the maximum focus as opposed to your opponent who is camping somewhere and looking down the scope for 10 seconds, waiting for you to pop out of the corner.

[CookiePuss 5378]

1 hour ago, Thial said:

I have no ill will either so sorry if I'm getting a bit tilted but I'm really not writing out of my patootie. What I'm saying is based on my experiences so surely you should take it with a grain of salt as not everything that works for me will work for you.

On average it takes 250ms (depends on the person) for initial input from your eyes to result in an action (in this case shooting). Less if you train yourself of course.
If you can do the quickscope lean ADS shot in somewhere around that amount of time there's a good chance the person won't be able to even react to it or will shoot after you will be long gone behind the corner.
 

With such quick actions this has nothing to do with actual skill but it's down to how human body functions.
 

Also doing ADS for extended periods of time can actually slow down your reaction time as you lose your focus so you actually have an advantage over your opponent in majority of cases because you are executing a very quick action with the maximum focus as opposed to your opponent who is camping somewhere and looking down the scope for 10 seconds, waiting for you to pop out of the corner.

If I get time later, I'll give this a go. 

[Nitronik 348]

if one had to prioritize mods I'd put RS3 at the bottom of the list. IR3 on OSCAR is far more important imo.

[CookiePuss 5378]

21 minutes ago, Nitronik said:

if one had to prioritize mods I'd put RS3 at the bottom of the list. IR3 on OSCAR is far more important imo.

Very good point. 

If you have a JT1 (I think there's maybe an NFCP 1?)

Then absolutely put IR3 on it. 

[Thial 176]

 

5 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

If I get time later, I'll give this a go. 

Made a simple wall test to showcase the spread on close and far range with just IR3 and IR3 + RS3:
Yes I know that my shooting sucks, haven't played APB for over a year now.
 

Of course there's always gonna be a group who will claim that a wall test is bad because the client will show something different than happens on the server but I can assure you that it works exactly the same way on people and also for such a simple purpose this kind of a test is enough.
In practice RS3 makes no difference. The best setup imo is IR3 MP3 (great range and amazing reload speed) and the last one is either Tagger if you wanna help your team / you need extra reaction time boost or 3-PS if you mostly focus on solo play. RS3 on OSCAR is a waste of a slot.

Here's also why ADS lean quickscope is much better than just ADS walk. Shown using a scout because the difference is visible better that way. Pay attention to how long I'm actually exposed with ADS lean quickscope. You need to have a really short reaction time to be able to hit that. Some snipers literally just give up when they fail to hit you for the 20th time. It's pretty much as hard as hitting a crouch spammer:
https://streamable.com/ocw0k

And here's IR3 MP3 3PS Oscar hipfire vs ADS. No idea why you would say no to ADS since it gives you easier control, less recoil and additional zoom with pretty much the same if not better spread. You can also see how fast OSCAR reloads with MP3. Actually had many people call me stupid for using MP3 on OSCAR:
https://streamable.com/5n64g

Edited October 16, 2019 by Thial

[CookiePuss 5378]

31 minutes ago, Thial said:

 

Made a simple wall test to showcase the spread on close and far range with just IR3 and IR3 + RS3:
Yes I know that my shooting sucks, haven't played APB for over a year now.
 

Of course there's always gonna be a group who will claim that a wall test is bad because the client will show something different than happens on the server but I can assure you that it works exactly the same way on people and also for such a simple purpose this kind of a test is enough.
In practice RS3 makes no difference. The best setup imo is IR3 MP3 (great range and amazing reload speed) and the last one is either Tagger if you wanna help your team / you need extra reaction time boost or 3-PS if you mostly focus on solo play. RS3 on OSCAR is a waste of a slot.

Here's also why ADS lean quickscope is much better than just ADS walk. Shown using a scout because the difference is visible better that way. Pay attention to how long I'm actually exposed with ADS lean quickscope. You need to have a really short reaction time to be able to hit that. Some snipers literally just give up when they fail to hit you for the 20th time. It's pretty much as hard as hitting a crouch spammer:
https://streamable.com/ocw0k

And here's IR3 MP3 3PS Oscar hipfire vs ADS. No idea why you would say no to ADS since it gives you easier control, less recoil and additional zoom with pretty much the same if not better spread. You can also see how fast OSCAR reloads with MP3. Actually had many people call me stupid for using MP3 on OSCAR:
https://streamable.com/5n64g

Very cool. Thank you for taking the time to do this. 

[vsb 6171]

2 hours ago, Thial said:

Here's also why ADS lean quickscope is much better than just ADS walk. Shown using a scout because the difference is visible better that way. Pay attention to how long I'm actually exposed with ADS lean quickscope. You need to have a really short reaction time to be able to hit that. Some snipers literally just give up when they fail to hit you for the 20th time. It's pretty much as hard as hitting a crouch spammer:
https://streamable.com/ocw0k

you realize that you can do the same thing while hipfiring and it exposes the exact same amount of your hitbox right?

 

except corner peeking while hipfiring will always be faster than ads with the oscar

[Thial 176]

8 hours ago, Solamente said:

you realize that you can do the same thing while hipfiring and it exposes the exact same amount of your hitbox right?

 

except corner peeking while hipfiring will always be faster than ads with the oscar

First of all as I've mentioned before it really depends on the situation you are in, the enemy setup and the distance to your targets. And in the end it's also down to playstyle and preference.

While hipfiring you are exposing your entire hitbox vertically and almost a half of it horizontally (lets say 1/3 if you can strafe corner pop skillfully). Also a lot of your body is visible which makes you more noticeable and an easier target.
While hipfire strafing around the corner it's harder to execute perfect strafes where you reveal only the minimal amount of your body and you are able to shoot. you might often reveal at least half of your body or you might fuck up and hit the wall because you have revealed too little of yourself.
Then it's also more difficult to land a shot because you are on the move so it gets more difficult the further your target is and if it's moving since you have to micro adjust with every shot while on the move.
Then you are also in hipfire mode so you don't have the ADS zoom and you have increased recoil.
If you don't micro adjust and just strafe until your crosshair is over the target then you will reveal around half or more of your body depending on what your target does which makes it easy for your opponent to prefire the corner or even to react to it in time.

Lean ADS quickscope reveals basically only your head for split of a second, gives you zoom and better control due to ADS and in OSCAR's case better accuracy since you eliminate the hipfire recoil. Makes your enemy try to hit your tiny head which will make them fuck up far more trust me.
You also eliminate the movement so one thing less to worry about and micro adjustment since you sort of flick as you ADS.
Yes your hitbox goes all the way to the ground but people will try to hit the visible part of you anyway.
It's way easier to control than strafe corner poking and makes it way safer for you since you are revealing a minimum amount of yourself for split of a second so even if the enemies will try to keep firing at the corner your are much less likely to get hit compared to strafing.

 

If that doesn't convince you then I don't know what will.

If I was you I would just try using it and you will see how annoyed people will get.
In pretty much every shooter game playing mind games can matter a lot.
Especially if you can succesfully tilt someone or make them panic.
People can throw games because of that.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Thial

[vsb 6171]

27 minutes ago, Thial said:

While hipfiring you are exposing your entire hitbox vertically and almost a half of it horizontally (lets say 1/3 if you can strafe corner pop skillfully). Also a lot of your body is visible which makes you more noticeable and an easier target.
While hipfire strafing around the corner it's harder to execute perfect strafes where you reveal only the minimal amount of your body and you are able to shoot. you might often reveal at least half of your body or you might fuck up and hit the wall because you have revealed too little of yourself..

maybe if you have fat fingers or something, correct corner peeking is just muscle memory no different from the oscar's rof

 

the same amount of your hitbox is exposed anyway, even in your own example

i think i was pretty generous with the hitbox estimation and its still almost more than half

 

 

27 minutes ago, Thial said:

Then it's also more difficult to land a shot because you are on the move so it gets more difficult the further your target is and if it's moving since you have to micro adjust with every shot while on the move.

so like, tracking? the thing that everyone in apb needs to be decent at almost regardless of playstyle?

 

plus you're more accurate with rs3 and hipfire than ads anyway, so assuming your aim is fine its still more of a bonus to use rs3

 

 

27 minutes ago, Thial said:

Then you are also in hipfire mode so you don't have the ADS zoom and you have increased recoil.

i don't even know what to say to this tbh, you shouldn't need zoom for anything you're shooting at with an oscar and the gun has basically no recoil anyway

 

 

27 minutes ago, Thial said:

Lean ADS quickscope reveals basically only your head for split of a second

and hipfire corner peeking happens at roughly 1.5x the speed of ads corner peeking, that's faster than a "split second"

 

 

27 minutes ago, Thial said:

If I was you I would just try using it and you will see how annoyed people will get.

i have (altho i prefer the carbine over the oscar), we can all get snobby about our years of experience

[Thial 176]

1 hour ago, Solamente said:

maybe if you have fat fingers or something, correct corner peeking is just muscle memory no different from the oscar's rof

 

the same amount of your hitbox is exposed anyway, even in your own example

i think i was pretty generous with the hitbox estimation and its still almost more than half

 

 

so like, tracking? the thing that everyone in apb needs to be decent at almost regardless of playstyle?

 

plus you're more accurate with rs3 and hipfire than ads anyway, so assuming your aim is fine its still more of a bonus to use rs3

 

 

i don't even know what to say to this tbh, you shouldn't need zoom for anything you're shooting at with an oscar and the gun has basically no recoil anyway

 

 

and hipfire corner peeking happens at roughly 1.5x the speed of ads corner peeking, that's faster than a "split second"

 

 

i have (altho i prefer the carbine over the oscar), we can all get snobby about our years of experience

I will respond to this with videos after I'll get home from work. I just can't....

 

[crusade 89]

14 hours ago, Thial said:

 

 

This test is invalid. RS reduces the Run modifier. This means you need to be actively moving while shooting for the test to be valid.

[Thial 176]

I hate arguing with people who don't back up any of their claims with any sort of proof or have no idea in general what they are talking about but I hope that this will solve it once and for all. This will be the last response of this type that I'm making. It's just not worth my time since it's like talking to a wall.
 

9 hours ago, Solamente said:

maybe if you have fat fingers or something, correct corner peeking is just muscle memory no different from the oscar's rof

the same amount of your hitbox is exposed anyway, even in your own example

i think i was pretty generous with the hitbox estimation and its still almost more than half

People don't see your hitbox, people see your model. But also:

This is a very rough hitbox / visibility estimation using perspective drawing. Yes the hitboxes are cylindrical but this is just a boundry for the ease of explanation.
Red is the hitbox boundry box.
Green highlight is the boundry box area revealed outside of the corner .

Blue are the physical body parts (except for the gun) visible to your enemy.



As you can see to perform a succesful shot by revealing just the gun outside of the corner you are revealing not only less of your hitbox but also less of your visible body making it harder for the enemies to spot you and aim at you.
With the lean you are only revealing a bit of your head and your arm.
While strafing you are revealing your entire body vertically and approximately minimum 1/3 of your hitbox (usually more).

 

9 hours ago, Solamente said:

i don't even know what to say to this tbh, you shouldn't need zoom for anything you're shooting at with an oscar and the gun has basically no recoil anyway

 

Yeah OSCAR has no recoil:

9 hours ago, Solamente said:

so like, tracking? the thing that everyone in apb needs to be decent at almost regardless of playstyle?

plus you're more accurate with rs3 and hipfire than ads anyway, so assuming your aim is fine its still more of a bonus to use rs3

Tracking and micro adjustments are two completely different things.
You are more accurate with RS3 hipfire compared to ADS ? I wonder how since ADS almost removes the hipfire recoil (also visible in the video above)
https://streamable.com/5n64g

 

9 hours ago, Solamente said:

and hipfire corner peeking happens at roughly 1.5x the speed of ads corner peeking, that's faster than a "split second"

Uhhmm what ?? Check this out then. Also before, some stats from video analysis:
1. Time for hitbox to leave cover and get back to cover:
ADS: 400ms
Strafe: 467ms

2. Time from the visible player model appearing out of cover and going back behind cover

ADS visibility 200ms (Below average reaction time)
Strafe visibility 250ms

 

9 hours ago, Solamente said:

i have (altho i prefer the carbine over the oscar), we can all get snobby about our years of experience

I think that being a bit snobby about experience is completely fine as long as you are supplying proof to your claims (unlike you).
 

5 hours ago, crusade said:

This test is invalid. RS reduces the Run modifier. This means you need to be actively moving while shooting for the test to be valid.

You do realize that it's only a 10% modifier ?
The smaller the initial value the smaller the impact of the modifier.
If you have 10 cents 10% is just 1 cent.
If you have 10000 cents then 10% is 1000 cents.
For OSCAR the sprint modifier makes no difference in practice:
 

And just in case one more time the non sprint version.
 

 

Edited October 17, 2019 by Thial

[crusade 89]

11 hours ago, Thial said:

You do realize that it's only a 10% modifier ?
The smaller the initial value the smaller the impact of the modifier.
If you have 10 cents 10% is just 1 cent.
If you have 10000 cents then 10% is 1000 cents.
For OSCAR the sprint modifier makes no difference in practice:

Brother, I took calculus in high school. I don't need you to explain basic math to me like I'm a 12 year old. You don't seem to understand how RS works. It cuts the 1.2 run (not sprint) modifier down to 1.0, and the 0.98 marksman modifier gets set to 1.0 as well. That's a 0.2 boost to mobile hipfire accuracy with a 0.02 loss on marksman accuracy. This accuracy boost may be minuscule, but the difference here is that there is almost no downside (especially in comparison to the Carbine). Reflex sight is practically an upgrade for the OSCAR. Also, there's a lot of uncontrolled variables in your test still (crosshair placement, character movement). I wouldn't worry about testing it, though. I'm pretty sure the mod is working.

 

Most people would rather upgrade their weapon instead of using something that has downsides (Mag Pull). But, I'm not going to sit here and say your loadout is wrong. While RS is an upgrade, I can understand if you think the boost is negligible enough that you prefer something else. I'm sure there are people who prefer 3PS3 over Tagger because they run flare gun or something.

 

Oh, and I'm not saying you shouldn't use marksman with the OSCAR, either. I think RS might actually benefit the OSCAR's marksman a bit, considering the slightly wider FoV.

[Thial 176]

31 minutes ago, crusade said:

Brother, I took calculus in high school. I don't need you to explain basic math to me like I'm a 12 year old. You don't seem to understand how RS works. It cuts the 1.2 run (not sprint) modifier down to 1.0, and the 0.98 marksman modifier gets set to 1.0 as well. That's a 0.2 boost to mobile hipfire accuracy with a 0.02 loss on marksman accuracy. This accuracy boost may be minuscule, but the difference here is that there is almost no downside (especially in comparison to the Carbine). Reflex sight is practically an upgrade for the OSCAR. Also, there's a lot of uncontrolled variables in your test still (crosshair placement, character movement). I wouldn't worry about testing it, though. I'm pretty sure the mod is working.

 

Most people would rather upgrade their weapon instead of using something that has downsides (Mag Pull). But, I'm not going to sit here and say your loadout is wrong. While RS is an upgrade, I can understand if you think the boost is negligible enough that you prefer something else. I'm sure there are people who prefer 3PS3 over Tagger because they run flare gun or something.

 

Oh, and I'm not saying you shouldn't use marksman with the OSCAR, either. I think RS might actually benefit the OSCAR's marksman a bit, considering the slightly wider FoV.

Oh no I'm not saying that the mod is not working or anything.
All I'm saying is that you can see on the comparison vids that RS3 makes absolutely no difference in practice.
What my videos are showing is how the mod performs in actual gameplay.
If there is no benefit to actual gameplay from the usage of RS3 on OSCAR then what's the point ? All it becomes is a wasted slot.
Of course the setup is up to your preference. I'm running MP3 + 3PS because I'm mostly a solo player who often takes on whole enemy teams so I need as much utility as possible.

MP3 is priceless when engaging multiple people at once. Especially in open areas. Can't count how many times it has saved my patootie with its amazing reload speed.
As a general advice I always recommend Tagger first since it might benefit the reaction time when someone is pushing out of cover and might also help the team.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Thial

[GhosT 1301]

I appreciate your effort but theres literally no reason to ADS corner pop with the OSCAR. Just use RS3 and hipfire all day with your slightly better accuracy.

[Thial 176]

32 minutes ago, GhosT said:

I appreciate your effort but theres literally no reason to ADS corner pop with the OSCAR. Just use RS3 and hipfire all day with your slightly better accuracy.

Where's your proof ? All I see are words with no evidence.

I've proven with actual videos that there's absolutely no reason to use RS3 and you are better off using Tagger or 3PS as RS3 is just a wasted mod slot on OSCAR.

I've also proven with actual videos that on longer ranges ADS has MUCH lower recoil compared to hipfire resulting in much easier control especially when you are taking cover and you want that little bit of extra accuracy and control.

I've also proven with a slowmo video that the ADS lean quickscope is faster than strafe corner pop and reveals less of your body.
So fast in fact that it's below average reaction times unlike strafing which will make people not react to you at all or react too late.
It's crucial when playing against top players. If you can outperform someone in terms of speed and poke them succesfully without taking damage they will have to retreat. Not taking damage during that stage might save you in another when someone will push you.

[GhosT 1301]

8 minutes ago, Thial said:

Where's your proof ? All I see are words with no evidence.

I've proven with actual videos that there's absolutely no reason to use RS3 and you are better off using Tagger or 3PS as RS3 is just a wasted mod slot on OSCAR.

I've also proven with actual videos that on longer ranges ADS has MUCH lower recoil compared to hipfire resulting in much easier control especially when you are taking cover and you want that little bit of extra accuracy and control.

I've also proven with a slowmo video that the ADS lean quickscope is faster than strafe corner pop and reveals less of your body.
So fast in fact that it's below average reaction times unlike strafing which will make people not react to you at all or react too late.
It's crucial when playing against top players. If you can outperform someone in terms of speed and poke them succesfully without taking damage they will have to retreat. Not taking damage during that stage might save you in another when someone will push you.

 

Implying the OSCAR has any recoil

 

Also, testing guns on walls, lol.

Edited October 18, 2019 by GhosT

[Thial 176]

Just now, GhosT said:

 

Implying the OSCAR has any recoil

And also this:

https://streamable.com/5n64g

 

[GhosT 1301]

1 minute ago, Thial said:

And also this:

 

 

Like I said, implying the oscar has any recoil.

 

Jokes aside, recoil wise its one of the easiest guns in APB.

[Thial 176]

Just now, GhosT said:

 

Like I said, implying the oscar has any recoil.

 

Jokes aside, recoil wise its one of the easiest guns in APB.

It doesn't matter if it's easy or not. I'm stating facts here though.
OSCAR has recoil.
ADS is a viable choice since it reduces that recoil greatly, gives you zoom and easier control resulting in a tighter spread in majority of cases as compared to hipfire long range shooting.
RS3 does nothing on OSCAR.

[GhosT 1301]

1 minute ago, Thial said:

RS3 does nothing on OSCAR.

 

ADS does nothing on OSCAR as recoil isn't a problem on it to begin with.

[Thial 176]

1 minute ago, GhosT said:

 

ADS does nothing on OSCAR as recoil isn't a problem on it to begin with.

unlike you I have video evidence to prove otherwise but it's your choice if you want to be ignorant or live in denial.

[GhosT 1301]

2 minutes ago, Thial said:

unlike you I have video evidence to prove otherwise but it's your choice if you want to be ignorant or live in denial.

 

Shooting a wall isn't precisely proof.

 

Also, like I said, recoil isn't a problem on the OSCAR. It has less when ADS'd but you don't need to do that.

Edited October 18, 2019 by GhosT

[Thial 176]

Just now, GhosT said:

 

Shooting a wall isn't precisely proof.

How is shooting at a wall any different from shooting at a person ?
Shooting is shooting.
Your weapon doesn't magically change its stats because you are engaging another player.

[GhosT 1301]

1 minute ago, Thial said:

How is shooting at a wall any different from shooting at a person ?
Shooting is shooting.
Your weapon doesn't magically change its stats because you are engaging another player.

 

Has been proven and confirmed a thousand times that bullet holes are wildly inaccurate.

 

Years ago you could enable server sided markers that showed your actual hits, sadly you can't anymore.