Open Conflict

[AxeTurboAgresor 268]

2 hours ago, Mikarity said:

Damn I really hate it, to hate you not xD

...but ye I also really miss the good old open conflict times. It was like a little community where everyone knew and hate each other 

which was really fun tbh.

Oh men, I miss the days when we and our friends were rekting each other. A good enemy to have is a good reason to stay, and play. I guess thats why I am not playing anymore.

Waiting for EU, hoping for something to happen.

[Ohshii 215]

@MattScott At what point is APB going to stop pushing for threat segregation and realize that bronze/silvers will NEVER improve until they learn to fight against players who are actually good at the game? You dont get better unless you actively go out of your way to get better. Settling to fighting people who also dont have a clue will result in sub par results where neither side improves. Keep whining about segregating silvers and bronzies from gold players and watch this game never improve or get better.

 

Downvote and QQ all you guys want, OC was the single best district in the game because while it was relatively a dead district I admit, regardless, like it or not, it WORKED. The only reason why it failed was because they didn't remove regular Fin and WF first. Make OC the standard and people WILL play it. You want to see full 100/100 districts on every server? Then remove regular districts and replace them with OC and force people to actually put in effort to get better. Stop spoon-feeding bronze players other newbie bronze players forever and ever; it's 100% counter productive, heavily encourages bronze/silvers to hackusate golds because they "win all the time" vs other bronze/silvers so in their minds they "have to be cheating", makes bronze/silvers ragequit and many who dont quit end up cheating to "compete vs golds" or whatever bullshoot excuses they tell themselves to feel like their cheating is validated cus lets face it most cheaters in APB of all-time were silvers/low tier golds who couldn't compete vs the best players.

 

The entire threat system in this game is designed for a game with literally tens of thousands of players. In a game with barely 1k players in NA, segregating the shit out of all of them literally doesn't pass the common sense test.  People on this forum may disagree but lets face it, none of them make video games for a living and the majority of them have 0 clue what actual balancing means because they use their personal feelings to judge what is balanced vs an actual real QA Dev for gaming companies know they have to put their personal feelings aside and make judgement calls that actually benefit the entire game not just their personal agendas. Facts. In my nearly 2 decades of working for Blizzard and other gaming companies, I've seen a lot of QA devs get fired because they was too busy wanting changes for themselves and not for the overall benefit of the game.

 

Also, OC is the ONLY PROVEN way get rid of dethreaters which is hands down the biggest issue new players face in this game. Not a single method used or even suggested in APB's history has countered dethreaters in the slightest, except for OC. Like it or not, and I know you forum nerds won't like it, but it's still the absolute truth. You don't have to like it, but you know deep down inside I'm not bullshitting lol.

 

So please LO, stop flopping around all willy nilly implementing crap that is 100% irrelevant and actually DO SOMETHING to save the game. Thanks.

 

 

Ohshii

Edited August 2, 2019 by Ohshii

[vsb 6171]

1 hour ago, Ohshii said:

Make OC the standard and people WILL play it.

what exactly is this supposed to prove, obviously if the only two option are play open conflict or don't play then people will play open conflict (altho i bet a sizeable number wouldnt play)

 

 

1 hour ago, Ohshii said:

 Stop spoon-feeding bronze players other newbie bronze players forever and ever; it's 100% counter productive, heavily encourages bronze/silvers to hackusate golds because they "win all the time" vs other bronze/silvers so in their minds they "have to be cheating", makes bronze/silvers ragequit and many who dont quit end up cheating to "compete vs golds" or whatever bullshoot excuses they tell themselves to feel like their cheating is validated cus lets face it most cheaters in APB of all-time were silvers/low tier golds who couldn't compete vs the best players.

open conflict won't really change that it will just replace "golds" with specific player/clan names

 

 

1 hour ago, Ohshii said:

Also, OC is the ONLY PROVEN way get rid of dethreaters

idk if getting rid of dethreaters by nuking the entire elo system is really a positive solution

 

 

2 hours ago, Ohshii said:

People on this forum may disagree but lets face it, none of them make video games for a living and the majority of them have 0 clue what actual balancing means because they use their personal feelings to judge what is balanced vs an actual real QA Dev for gaming companies know they have to put their personal feelings aside and make judgement calls that actually benefit the entire game not just their personal agendas. Facts. In my nearly 2 decades of working for Blizzard and other gaming companies, I've seen a lot of QA devs get fired because they was too busy wanting changes for themselves and not for the overall benefit of the game.

considering balance is subjective anyway everyone is going to have a personal opinion

 

personally i dislike open conflict because its another step away from "competitive" apb; i think stuff like leaderboards and performance-based rewards are important in getting/keeping people playing the game

[TheJellyGoo 343]

5 hours ago, Ohshii said:

@MattScott At what point is APB going to stop pushing for threat segregation and realize that bronze/silvers will NEVER improve until they learn to fight against players who are actually good at the game? You dont get better unless you actively go out of your way to get better. Settling to fighting people who also dont have a clue will result in sub par results where neither side improves. [...]

It's not wrong, but it's also not completely right. Learning is a (small) step by step process.

If the gap is to large and you get outright stomped... you will very likely learn almost nothing if at all.

Opponents need to be able to punish your mistakes but you need to be close enough to be able to identify those (specifics).

If a bronze gets blown out of the district by a gold he will simply be overwhelmed without much of a chance to assess his shortcomings (except for everything).

 

[Ohshii 215]

3 hours ago, Glaciers said:

what exactly is this supposed to prove, obviously if the only two option are play open conflict or don't play then people will play open conflict (altho i bet a sizeable number wouldnt play)

 

 

open conflict won't really change that it will just replace "golds" with specific player/clan names

 

 

idk if getting rid of dethreaters by nuking the entire elo system is really a positive solution

 

 

considering balance is subjective anyway everyone is going to have a personal opinion

 

personally i dislike open conflict because its another step away from "competitive" apb; i think stuff like leaderboards and performance-based rewards are important in getting/keeping people playing the game

 

 

It proves that OC works and the overall system is why it failed. It was never implemented properly, it was destined to fail by default. With that being said, I'd much rather have popular names/clans that run the mission aspect of the game which is what is already been happening btw, vs some colored logo next to my name that dictates who I am as a player. Who gives a shit about the entire elo system for this game, it was implemented for a reason that was never fullfilled in RTW aka leaderboards and rank play. It holds 0 water and credibility in this game ever, low tier golds are no different than almost all silvers and bronzies/green players are just automatic cannon fodder in missions literally because of their threat level.

 

How many of you have done missions with friends and when the OP is called in you press tab and go "Ok, so we're fighting Glaciers he's a gold hes pretty good, and 2 silvers and a bronze." You dont even assign the silvers or bronze players names, they're just "2 silvers and a bronze". You know why? Because the game has basically forced players who arent casual to address people of lower threat this way. Silvers and bronze players are literally "free" in missions vs gold teams. They never improve, they do the same basic fuzzy bunny tactics every single time and they are the more predictable than the random cars on the street driven by NPCs who always crash into you in missions when you wish they didn't. That's why there are so many 255 or 195+ silver/low tier gold players in this game. They NEVER got better, and lets not lie to each other here, you and I both know good god damn well they wished they was gold threat but they never made it because they spent too much time fighting people of the same skill level or lower to rank up so they will always get smashed by actual gold players. It's not the gold players faults at all this happens; we didnt force the silver/bronze players into bronze districts, the game itself did. Show me a full gold district and Ill never play in a silver district again. Too bad that wont happen, and why? Because threat segregation ONLY WORKS on games with BIG POPULATIONS. Absolute facts.

 

Take anything competitive and tell me you can improve by just playing low skill players in it. If youre low skill also, sure you may get a little better, but in the big picture, you will always be low skill. It's the undeniable truth. Lets use, chess for example. You're gonna tell me a low skill chess player will be on some Bobby Fischer talent level by just playing vs bots his skill level or people barely better than them? Cmon man, they'll never be able to sit at the same table as a pro chess player because they never got better.

 

You only improve in ANYTHING competitive by actually grinding it out vs people your skill level and higher. I dont care if it's sports, e-sports, competitive tabletop games, whatever. It doesn't matter. The moment anyone settles for easier competition in order to feel better about themselves is the literal moment they will be locked at the same skill level forever or until they get their head off their shoulders and actually push to do better.

 

There was a time in APB where ALL servers had super duper amazing top tier players who rolled in full groups or in clans and they all tried their best and put in actual work. Then the cheaters showed up because they was tired of losing all the time to these clans and teams and literally ran all the top tier players off the game. Those who stayed come and go here and there but never play the game full time anymore. From what I've seen on Jericho there are 0 top tier clans/premade teams from say, 2-5 years ago who was still playing full time today. There's only 1 team Ive seen still play and while when they are legit they are amazing, they used to be hardcore cheaters for years under G1 because they couldn't hang vs the best teams so I dont really count them.

 

OC is hands down the only way to fast-track fixing threat segregation. It just removes it all together. Ive been around since CBT on RTW and Ive seen a lot, way too many, methods, variants, tests, whatever you want to call it that "fixes" matchmaking yet at the end of the day 2 factors have never changed: Dethreating and Golds pubstomping silvers. Neither of these methods will ever be fixed unless A. The game gets like a few thousand more players to actually make matchmaking/threat segregation worth using or B. The system itself is removed.

 

People always say they dont wanna throw the threat system away, it's been around for all these years, blah blah blah. My answer to them is this, change isn't always great but would you rather keep the house in it's perpetual constant rotting state or would you rather tear down the foundations and rebuild the house stronger and better than it ever was? Get off that holding onto the past and memories bullshoot and think about the actual big picture, saving the god damn game as a whole.

 

The players are constantly leaving, people are still cheating... and we have Riot mode. Next to nothing has changed. Nothing will change until something major happens. The engine update will be like when LO bought the game; a few hundred, maybe even a thousand people will come and play.... and in 90 days or less they will quit again. Because the basic fundamentals that make APB NOT worth playing for the majority is still present and unchanged. Im sorry but it's the truth.

 

This forum is full of low tier gold players and silvers who have managed to convince @MattScott of their personal agendas. Sure new players are the ones buying stuff on armas, and silvers are the majority of the game. However, catering to the, with all due respect, bottom tier of the game is why this game is at the lowest population right now than it's ever been. LO needs to stop catering to the casuals who don't want change and want to keep smashing other silvers and low tier golds and actually listen to the people who see the big picture of the game. People who want to see the game succeed. All this talking heads bullshittery on the forums is like a giant circle jerk; someone posts something valid and the silvers and forum trolls downvote it and the devs look over it and don't read it. Meanwhile the silvers/low tier golds post dumb ideas and the other like-minded boneheads upvote it and @MattScott and LO jumps all over it. This game is going to die because LO is literally marching to the beat of the wrong peoples' drums.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Ohshii

[VanilleKeks 737]

Shortly before they pulled the plug, OC was pretty  much only used to make high rank trainee chars. In hindsight I would have liked to push my trainee account higher than r40.

[Fortune Runner 796]

On 8/2/2019 at 6:03 AM, Ohshii said:

@MattScott At what point is APB going to stop pushing for threat segregation and realize that bronze/silvers will NEVER improve until they learn to fight against players who are actually good at the game? You dont get better unless you actively go out of your way to get better. Settling to fighting people who also dont have a clue will result in sub par results where neither side improves. Keep whining about segregating silvers and bronzies from gold players and watch this game never improve or get better. 

 

Downvote and QQ all you guys want, OC was the single best district in the game because while it was relatively a dead district I admit, regardless, like it or not, it WORKED. The only reason why it failed was because they didn't remove regular Fin and WF first. Make OC the standard and people WILL play it. You want to see full 100/100 districts on every server? Then remove regular districts and replace them with OC and force people to actually put in effort to get better. Stop spoon-feeding bronze players other newbie bronze players forever and ever; it's 100% counter productive, heavily encourages bronze/silvers to hackusate golds because they "win all the time" vs other bronze/silvers so in their minds they "have to be cheating", makes bronze/silvers ragequit and many who dont quit end up cheating to "compete vs golds" or whatever bullshoot excuses they tell themselves to feel like their cheating is validated cus lets face it most cheaters in APB of all-time were silvers/low tier golds who couldn't compete vs the best players.

 

The entire threat system in this game is designed for a game with literally tens of thousands of players. In a game with barely 1k players in NA, segregating the shit out of all of them literally doesn't pass the common sense test.  People on this forum may disagree but lets face it, none of them make video games for a living and the majority of them have 0 clue what actual balancing means because they use their personal feelings to judge what is balanced vs an actual real QA Dev for gaming companies know they have to put their personal feelings aside and make judgement calls that actually benefit the entire game not just their personal agendas. Facts. In my nearly 2 decades of working for Blizzard and other gaming companies, I've seen a lot of QA devs get fired because they was too busy wanting changes for themselves and not for the overall benefit of the game.

 

Also, OC is the ONLY PROVEN way get rid of dethreaters which is hands down the biggest issue new players face in this game. Not a single method used or even suggested in APB's history has countered dethreaters in the slightest, except for OC. Like it or not, and I know you forum nerds won't like it, but it's still the absolute truth. You don't have to like it, but you know deep down inside I'm not bullshitting lol.

 

So please LO, stop flopping around all willy nilly implementing crap that is 100% irrelevant and actually DO SOMETHING to save the game. Thanks.

 

 

Ohshii

phasing fixes that though doesnt it?

20 hours ago, TheJellyGoo said:

If a bronze gets blown out of the district by a gold he will simply be overwhelmed without much of a chance to assess his shortcomings (except for everything).

true

[Ohshii 215]

Phasing is going to take a lot more actual work to implement, as well as requires a lot more actual hardware than what is currently available to make work. When Blizzard swapped to phasing technology for World of Warcraft, they had to improve all the hardware on their servers and in some places had to actually get more physical servers also. Without these updates, the servers would chug super slower than before and the in-game auto updating when a player crosses from one phase to the other would lag even worse.

 

Im not saying LO isn't prepared for that, nor am I saying they lack the money or the hardware to pull this off, but I will say that what Ive seen so far from them is a lot of promises, half-assed gun changes, a new game mode that is extremely buggy and nearly unplayable and Armas store changes. With that being said, I'm concerned that while they throw out the idea of phasing technology like it's no big deal, they also did the same for the engine update followed by months of MattScott apologizing saying "It's been a lot harder than we all originally thought." I dont see that being any different with the phasing technology they're hoping to implement.

 

Just removing the threat system and using OC full time is a LOT faster and dramatically easier to implement. They wouldnt need to get any new hardware or stuff like that. And it's a change that could be implemented in a relatively far shorter timeframe than waiting for the Engine update THEN adding phasing.

 

The game is dying. Everyone knows it. Change has to happen sooner than later or it will be too late. It's been over a year since LO took over and the people who first showed up when LO bought G1 was all hoping for a rapid release of the engine update. I was one of them too. But the reality is, they're barely figuring out what they're actually working with and even when they figured it out, they're still struggling to get the job done. If that wasn't the truth, we'd of had the engine update already. It is what it is.