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AgentWatson

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Posts posted by AgentWatson

  2. Posted

    7 minutes ago, Kewlin said:
    I'm aware of all of the other buffs, but honestly they're mostly pointless TBH, 'cause they're still not really competitors. Sure, there are lots of guns that are viable, and as I said before APB will still be playable, but IMO, even as someone who used and loved the COBR-A and Misery before these patches, I think APB is in a worse state than before these patches. Basically, as I see it, the guns that got buffed still aren't really all that good, many of the best guns in the game (the HVR and OCA being exceptions) got buffed, and a large percentage of the other guns got nerfed. . . and that doesn't really sounds like a good thing to me.

    And can we please, for the love of all that's good, stop throwing dumb baseless accusations at me? It just makes all of you look like idiots.


    Just a friendly reminder to everyone, in case anyone forgot, that LO_Beastie said these changes were going to concentrate on buffing weapons rather than nerfing them, but instead we got one of the most used mods in APB nerfed.
    Then there is something wrong with you dude, if you think the game is in a worse position now than before the balance pass then I don't know what to say. I'm actually enjoying myself more now than I was and that's not because I'm using shotguns or N-TEC in-fact I've been using stuff like Misery, Anubis since the server came back up and I definitely feel as though I'm doing much better respectively than I would have previously. 

    Yes one of the most used red mods in the game got nerfed and so what..? Good. If it falls out of meta I'm glad. I'm not going to be losing sleep tonight because some people just can't get over the changes to IR, in my opinion it's probably deserved if they've grown so accustomed to it. I'm not a fan of the way IR is right now, in fact I'd of kept it the way it was originally with the 21% firerate nerf and original range benefits if I had it my way. It's not some baseless assumption either, you literally created this thread 20 minutes after the server came back up, so I know for a fact you haven't given the balance pass an actual decent try. 

    You stick to this thread voicing out your grievances and I think it's sad that people in this thread are simply pandering to your neuroticism like you actually made this thread in good faith, your entire first post and some other posts you've made in this thread are insults directed at LO. Please stop acting like anything you have to say on the matter is made in good faith, because you could've said any number of things to voice your criticisms and instead you went straight to insults, which is why I'm willing to discount most of what you've said. It wasn't even this thread it was also the posts you made in the balance pass threads too. 

  3. Posted

    3 minutes ago, Spherii said:

    Definitely a start. 
    Maybe it's time to nerf N-TEC's effective range, the weapon should not be doing better than a rifle at 50M. I propose damage fall-off at 50M to begin with. 
    Then, with IR you can go up to 59M at the cost of lower fire rate. 
    The JG is a powerhouse, a proposed change is that they get reduced movement when firing. 
    Alternatively, something like removing their capability of jump shooting effectively might be very nice too. This is more common wiith the CSG, though. 
    I like to play shotgun too, and I'm pretty sure people aren't just playing shotgun because they changed it. It's also because it's too effective right now. 
     

    Don't think that's what needs to happen. They just need to adjust IR3 to 7m again but keep the fire rate deficit and we'll pretty much go to the way it was before the patch. N-TEC doesn't nearly have as much of a dominant position in the meta anymore as it use to before the balance pass. So we've managed to take two steps forward in a certain regard but in other places we may of went one step back and that's fine, I just feel the game is in a better position now. 

  4. Posted

    20 minutes ago, Kewlin said:

    No, because the N-TEC, CR762, and CSG are going to be far stronger than before TBH, and most other guns are going to have more difficulty competing past 50m now.
    This is what your brain looks like on APB kids. Seriously, you're going to make that case. A bunch of other guns have been buffed with this patch so it's not nearly as relevant a point anymore, yes you'll still have N-TECs, CR762's and CSG's but you have a lot of other things going on now that weren't happening before. Firstly, the Misery is actually a really decent weapon now and I'd definitely say almost competes on equal footing to the N-TEC 5, you've also got things like the ISSR-A now which is pretty decent, the Anubis is much better etc. 

    I don't see why you're developing an aneurysm in your brain over the balance patch, my theory is that you got on got killed a bunch of times and that was confirmation of your biases that N-TEC is too strong. I find this balance to be much more enjoyable than it was before the balance pass. 

  7. Posted

    1 minute ago, Tobii said:
    3 minutes ago, Killer Rabbit said:
    Here's the thing about that... The vast majority of the playerbase is really bad at this game.
    I'd rather LO listened to the top 1% of players who know and understand the game.
    That's what we all want.. What they did was listen to one guy and ignore the rest. Even the 1%.
    I mean 1% of all players in APB is 20 people, maybe less than that if you're talking about concurrent players based on time zones. Someone new has just as much of a valid opinion than someone who has been playing for years. Someone new may not know the entire nuances of game mechanics but if you were to give a new player a bunch of weapons and have them test all the guns individually, objectively they'd find some guns to be better than others. 

    I'm not talking about silvers or people within the majority of the people lower than the 1% I'm genuinely talking about actual new players. 

  9. Posted · Edited by AgentWatson

    I mean the changes have been up on the liver server for a little over an hour and people are already complaining. I'm going to give it time, I'm playing the same game that you guys are and I'm willing to accept changes will take some adaptation. Doesn't mean I'm not finding issues with the current balance and I personally thought and perhaps wish they had extended the OTW longer as well. I think I'll give it a week or more before I actually come to some decent conclusion on what I think. 

    Honestly I'm wondering as I went to live server why Mobile Radar Tower didn't just get completely removed or demolished. 

  10. Posted

    4 minutes ago, virginiavirgin said:

    I believed the shotguns were already perfect i had really nice results with them but honestly these weapon nerfs are too much.

    They weren't okay. The issues with servers and network lag made it so that you could get inconsistent results with the shotgun, the new model makes it so there is a fairer player ground between people who're equally as skilled and no nonsense going on in-between. Because I live in Australia, this issue was compounded by my latency, I'd sometimes have to shoot people upwards of 4-5 times <10m 

    I'm not saying the new model is perfect by any stretch personally I'd of lowered CSG range to 11m or 12m overall I think the changes here are really positive. 

  12. Posted

    1 minute ago, Kewlin said:

    A larger per-shot modifier only makes it more RNG if you decide to take a risk and shoot it before it recovers its bloom. . . so essentially that's like saying the N-TEC is totally RNG because it has tons of bloom if you shoot it full-auto.

    Also, guess what? The mod is going live in its current state:
    Because LO is literally insane apparently? This could very well become the most controversial patch in APB's history. LO needs to slow the Hell down.
    It isn't. Go and check the OTW they've made last minute changes to the mod. It now has 3/6/9 and 6/12/18% respectively now on the OTW. 

  13. Posted

    15 minutes ago, Hexerin said:
    Looks like they're content with the currently broken state Improved Rifling is in. That's unfortunate.
    Huh..? Don't think that's the case. Because the update they're referencing doesn't even reflect the current changes on OTW. I'm pretty sure they'll be pushing last minute changes to the update before it goes live. DIdn't realize the 1.1.9.6 was so close to be released though, that's sort of cool. 

  15. Posted

    Just now, CookiePuss said:
    2 minutes ago, AgentWatson said:
    CA3
    Taking the longest to reach full health isnt a downside?
    Most firefights in APB as you know are drawn out for the most part, not a whole lot but enough so that CA3 is a straight upgrade. Because you can take a single hit from a gun like N-TEC and only a little more than a second later you're already accumulating the health damage back. I've tried CA2 and CA1 and it's true they come with their own benefits but I find CA3 is more universally better than CA1 and CA2 because of that quick accumulation of health good for low power hit trading. If you're playing from a distance I think CA2 is preferable though that might be subjectively what I think though. 

  16. Posted

    11 minutes ago, FluttershyI said:
    Weapons like carbine, temptress, obir and obeya will suffer a lot since they become slower. For Ntec tap firing is makes no difference since tap firing/spraying is easy, so that's exactly the problem I mean. N-tec shouldn't get better and it's already used too much. After this change I would never use my CSG PR1 again, same for LCR since it's already too slow and all these semi-auto's. IMO the IR changes will make it that almost nobody would want IR on those kind of weapons anymore, you could just not bother with the mod anymore and play closer ranges or take a real sniper.

    Edit: It's not for nothing that we use CJ3 on weapons to get that small percentage in TTK (+7%) including the downsides of the modification. TTK is far more important than that little bit of extra range. Equiping IR would now actually make it like you would have de-equiped more than 2x a CJ3 modification (-15% ROF). And what do you gain? Yeah, 12m on OTW but people complain that's too much (wich I agree on totally). But -15% ROF? No way, that makes no sense to me...
    Yes. Weapons will suffer as a result of a -15% ROF nerf but that's meant to be the way it is, there isn't a single mod currently in the game excluding a few outliers like 3PS3 or CA3 etc that don't come with harsh downsides once you start dipping your toes into that level 3 mod. Many of the reasons people don't take mods like level Heavy Barrel 3 are for the same reason because the upside you get for that mod is negligible to the amount of damage you're losing but that's the price you're going to have to pay to choose adjust that weapon to a playstyle that doesn't benefit that selection of weapon you still have the ability there to undeniably break the viability of your weapon if you put mods on it that aren't suited for it. 

    In my experience playing on the OTW since it has come out carbine, huntress( haven't been using temptress) those guns benefit from the mod because the mod works like a bloom regulator. It adds artificial limits to the guns ROF so that the player doesn't go over a certain threshold. You're gaining TTK at longer ranges but losing that in CQC, that isn't a downside, because you're extending the viability and versatility of the weapon far past to where it should be viable and only losing a negligible amount of damage potential in the trade off. 

    LCR I believe is still getting looked into, it's not in a good place, I'll concede that but the developer seems active about adjusting the gun to account for the new balancing issues. 

  17. Posted · Edited by AgentWatson

    1 hour ago, FluttershyI said:

    Why does IR need a downside? CJ has a downside but still works well on most weapons aswell. It's not like IR is the only mod to go with. The changes to IR will screw over some of my pre-modded weapons and the overal balance completely

    Haven't ran into a single gun on OTW that has been "screwed over" by the changes you're so neurotic about quite the opposite, in some cases IR tends to highlight the issues with certain guns making them even more broken. Yes CJ has balance issues on some guns as well, that doesn't excuse the fact that IR continually remains one of the most used red mods on weapons, This in part hopefully moves people to try different mod loadouts doesn't mean though that any mod is safe. This balance pass rectifies an issue I've had with the game for the last 4 years. 
     
    Quote
    Any preliminary stats for the Showstopper? I'm especially interested about pellet damage, pellet count, fire interval and 10m spread.

    Also about Rifling:
    I don't think the decision to slow down the weapon's fire rate is the correct way to solve the issue of Rifling being a no-downsides mod for certain weapons. Not only do slow-firing semi automatic weapons such as the Obeya take the largest hit to their TTK, but players will have to adjust to a new clicking rhythm. Meanwhile automatic weapons with lots of recovery between shots such as the already very powerful N-Tec get even better with this upgrade. 

    My suggestion would be to apply a mild "reverse heavy barrel" effect combined with the existing bloom cap increase, while giving 3m/6m/9m extra range for each respective level of IR. The multipier that would be applied to per-shot bloom for each IR level would be 1.03/1.06/1.1. In comparison, Heavy Barrel applies a multiplier of 0.9/0.8/0.7 to per-shot bloom depending on level. This double (but mild) downside makes sure that IR has both positive and negative effects on the vast majority of weapons.

    As for shotguns, they should be designed so that they don't recover 100% of their center pellet bloom between shots if IR is used, so IR would make shotguns less accurate when they are fired at or near maximum firerate. The Fang will have less accuracy for the second and third shots in each burst, making it less likely to 3 burst.  
    Again another person to adjust things by bloom. There are a tonne of issues when balancing things around bloom and the suggestion you're making would also make it so that people would have to learn new rhythms with them mouse as you'd put it. Though that's not really much of an issue, that's pretty much how balance and metas work. You have to be willing to adjust indefinitely in a live competitive game.  

    Secondly the issue with bloom is is that you're further making things harder for people on console to adjust. People respectively stick to easier guns that don't have uncontrollable patterns on console like the ATAC which is why it's so popular on console and as the two platforms become more harmonized it's important to remove downsides like that on PC because no one likes putting things on their weapon that increase features that they cannot account for. 

    I've highlighted a point you've made that could easily be problematic because you're making a nebulous point here without really defining what it is you mean by less accurate or by how much you want these guns to be less accurate by. I bring this up as the main point of contention because it almost sounds like you're fine with attaching really weird gimmicks to some guns to cause further confusion simply because you don't like what they've done to IR. 

    Hate reiterating of points already made but you can't adjust entire game balance on some weapons to account for one mod.

  18. Posted

    3 minutes ago, Kewlin said:

    Honestly, part of me would almost rather have IR removed than have its changes go live, lol.

    12m is way too much of a buff for a downside that doesn't apply to every gun, and it's downside is way too huge for the longer range rifles that kinda' relied on it. I personally suggest you try making it increase the per-shot modifier instead of changing RoF or max bloom, because the range increase is good on nearly every gun, and increased per-shot modifier will affect nearly every gun as well. something like: +3, 5, 7m range, +10, 20, 30% bloom per shot.

    So the only way to balance it on your opinion is to increase randomness and make it feel very samey with its drawbacks in regards to something like CJ3? That's a horrible idea, we've have to go through a another balance pass just to test whether your suggested changes would affect weapons in another multitude of ways. The mod as it currently is hilariously broken but the only thing that needs to be changed is the benefit for the mod. 

    I highly doubt the mod as it is in its current state is going to go live.

  19. Posted

    18 minutes ago, Frosi said:
    I never said that IR not affecting some guns is an issue and I doubt that there is a lot of people thinking that it is, hell, one of the most used mods in the game has no downside at all. (3PS3) Not to mention that there are other mods that don't have an effect on certain guns such as Cooling Jacket not having a bonus or downside to burst weapons or not having a downside on snipers such as the Scout / HVR.

    And yes I am talking about the Fang primarily because its the only gun that will perform drastically better if you put IR3 on it. It is the most broken secondary in the game right now and was also mentioned as a reason for the IR change. Also, removing IR3 from the Fang is both simply lazy balancing nor will it fix the gun. It'll still have 40 meters effective range with pinpoint accuracy in both Marksman and Hipfire while also providing THE SAME ttk as an FBW.

    There aren't many guns that use IR that are in need of a nerf, in fact, I think there are more weapons in need of a buff after the IR change if it ever goes through to the live servers. 

    All in all, balancing the weapons itself is less complex than adjusting a mod in such a drastic way. 

     
    Huh..? I was bringing it up as an issue. I said you brought up an issue with IR3 which is that with some guns it doesn't affect maximum bloom at all and I find that to be problematic. As to 3PS3 it's inconsequential to balance in most cases because it's only reducing equip time which has really only ever been an issue on the HVR and Rocket launchers in the past because you're getting around a stat which is meant to be consequential for balance on those weapons

    Personally I don't find the fact that the FANG has a higher TTK than the FBW to be a good reason to nerf it. The Colby 45 has a higher TTK than the FBW, you could argue it requires more skill but I don't think that one point is good enough to consider nerfing guns. You can call removing IR3 lazy if you want, if it makes a difference and decreases the overall effectiveness of the gun and puts it into a balance state I find that to be an adequate change. 

    As for CJ3, perhaps it'll get looked at. This is perhaps one of few of the balance passes. I think you're completely distracted about issues with other mods when I don't think anyone is arguing that CJ3 is in a balanced state either, there are plenty of mods in the game currently which are unbalanced. Even if we're not thinking about weapon mods I can think of plenty of character mods that will perhaps need to be looked at. 

  20. Posted

    5 hours ago, Frosi said:

    Just keep Improved Rifling the way it is on Live and balance the weapons that overperform with it. The Fang will not be nerfed because you literally gave it 5 more meters effective range so it is now sitting at 52 meters. Nerf the weapons, not the mod.

    I feel like the Improved Rifling change is more of a forced thing aimed to fix issues but without realizing what the issues of some guns are. The reason for this change is that some weapons aren't affected by the downsides of IR, however, those that aren't affected are often considered the most balanced weapons in the game. People will complain that the OSCAR is overpowered while they fail to get a single kill with it. The Oscar rewards good aim with versatility. The OBIR is an insanely consistent support weapon that can also stand its ground by itself, however, this is mainly due to reverse quick switching with an FBW which really is the only thing that could be called overpowered about the OBIR. If you want to nerf the OBIR then add the delay most snipers have that blocks you from switching to your secondary before you're able to fire your next shot. 

    The Fang needs a flat out nerf, it's range is too damn high and with this IR change, you made it even harder to balance because you'd have to lower the range by so much that it would leave the non IR version of the RFP useless in comparison. My ideal idea of an RFP nerf would have been a 0,2 to 0,3 increase in ttk (From 1.0 to 1,2/1,3) and 10 meters less range. The reason for this is that the gun can deal 400 damage in one full burst while providing incredible accuracy and fairly decent close range viability. 

    Your suggestion seem to be solely focused around Fang and honestly the only thing that I see that should be done to it is removing IR3. You're not making a good enough arguement or suggestion in my opinion to warrant them changing things back to how they were, in-fact we'd just be going back to step 0 and honestly you pointed out something currently in the game that makes the current IR3 an issue. If there are guns that are completely not affected by IR then in my eyes that's probably not an intended feature to have in the game. 

    Beastie has stated that the reasons around focusing on positive changes as opposed to negative changes is the negative connotation and stigma related to nerfing weapons in the first place. No one wants to have owned a weapon that is completely nerfed, that's going to spiral out of control and piss off a lot of people. I think the change he has made here is quite significant but it's required because it draws a harsh comparison between weapon mods that may make people alternatively try other mods on their weapon and not simply always go with IR3 for 80% of all scenarios. 

    The "issues" are pretty apparent. People are fighting and winning battles at ranges their selected gun isn't meant to excel at. This is the reason for the HVR change, changes to shotgun, IR3. It's to push weapons into a playstyle they were intended for. These changes are still undergoing adjustments and perhaps you'll get more of something you'll prefer, but personally once this test is over I wanna see more people using a variety of mods on their weapon, not just one. 

     
    • Like 1

  22. Posted

    2 hours ago, LO_Beastie said:


    Rifling
    Adjusting Rifling mod, reducing downside and improving upside. This is now +4, 8. 12 m range (rank 1, 2 3 respectively), and -5, -10, -15 % firerate / burst fire interval. There was a bug where the burst fire interval was only applying on ranks 1 and 2, so we've fixed that as well.

    I've also added a set of weapon mods with no rating requirement that will be sent to players on OTW. This is one each of the rank 1 and 2 mods that would unlock through the roles, plus a few each of the rank 3 mods.


     

    Rifling is the only thing in these notes I take issue with. I think the concessions you've made here with fire rate are far too lenient. I'm always obviously going to try it out first but I see issues with the reduction here. Personally I'd of preferred if you had just adjusted the range benefit of IR3 to the values listed with the previous value for firerate and then see how the newer adjustments would've been perceived. What I ultimately fear and see happening is people will just go with 1 or 2 of IR because these are ultimately as close to the original IR but without the crippling downside the original IR mod had. 

    The other changes however you've made with regards to general weapon balance may be spot on and are in accordance with what a lot of the community has suggested. 👍

  25. Posted · Edited by AgentWatson

    27 minutes ago, MrsHappyPenguin said:

    For improved rifling, the firing rate should be -3%, -5%. -7%.  Than again, what's the point of this change? It's such a minimal change in range that having any noticeable downside would make this mod useless. It's already useless on LMGs and other weapons that reach maximum bloom after a shot or two.

     

    Jesus, I suppose you can't look throughout the thread to find the reason stated as to why it's required..? If you put Improved rifling on your gun you're adjusting that weapon to accommodate a playstyle that is focused around range so therefore it comes with caveats that you now have to suffer up close. Because maximum bloom didn't do enough or sometimes anything at all to punish this sort of playstyle, something more determinable had to be implemented to make sure that people did have to weigh up consequences of equipping IR3 on their weapon instead of it just being a must have mod. 

    Your suggestion is more of that "Not doing enough" with the change only being -3% -5% -7% change respectively you wouldn't see enough of a change that it would inhibit people from moving away from IR3 and it would again just be a straight upgrade. As Beastie obviously outlined the mod as it is was balanced strictly around shotguns and he's determining whether to keep it solely for shotguns or make more adjustments and concessions when it's equipped on other weapons
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