Heavy Barrel should reduce shotgun spread

[Kewlin 692]

38 minutes ago, SLICKIEM said:

you say that as if I was supposed to know it was there, lol.

My bad, somehow I honestly forget sometimes that not everyone's spent a bazillion hours perusing the DB.

 

[Genobee 143]

On 10/16/2018 at 11:41 PM, Kewlin said:

 

Just because something's rarely used doesn't mean it needs to be redone, lol.

You can't really use that as an all encompassing answer and call it a day. Just look at the guns for some solid examples of where your explanation falls short. Norsemen - never used because it is terrible. Now if we were talking about the ISSR-b - amazing gun that is still overlooked. Have to go case by case with these things, and in this situation I simply cannot agree.

 

The (now going to be reverted)changes to IR3 left it functioning as a better heavy barrel. A modification that received an overly heavy-handed nerf was more functional. That to me signals a core design flaw with the modification. It's only useful in very, very niche situations and even then is overshadowed by the other red modifications. That's not something that "just isn't used", that's something that is in an incredibly poor state. 

 

I would argue it has been the underdog modification in desperate need of love since G1 first got the game. I remember way back when my "Below-Zero" released and it got railed for having HB3 on it. It was intentionally given that as a less than ideal modification. Yeah. That's how poorly heavy barrel has been viewed and for how long. The developer I pitched that idea to agreed it was a solid choice for a sub-optimal yet workable configuration. That mod was the go-to for that exact purpose.

[Kewlin 692]

52 minutes ago, Genobee said:

You can't really use that as an all encompassing answer and call it a day. Just look at the guns for some solid examples of where your explanation falls short. Norsemen - never used because it is terrible. Now if we were talking about the ISSR-b - amazing gun that is still overlooked. Have to go case by case with these things, and in this situation I simply cannot agree.

 

The (now going to be reverted)changes to IR3 left it functioning as a better heavy barrel. A modification that received an overly heavy-handed nerf was more functional. That to me signals a core design flaw with the modification. It's only useful in very, very niche situations and even then is overshadowed by the other red modifications. That's not something that "just isn't used", that's something that is in an incredibly poor state. 

 

I would argue it has been the underdog modification in desperate need of love since G1 first got the game. I remember way back when my "Below-Zero" released and it got railed for having HB3 on it. It was intentionally given that as a less than ideal modification. Yeah. That's how poorly heavy barrel has been viewed and for how long. The developer I pitched that idea to agreed it was a solid choice for a sub-optimal yet workable configuration. That mod was the go-to for that exact purpose.

 

Look, I'm not saying HB shouldn't get a slight buff, but a rework is obnoxious and should really just be a new mod IMO. The fact still stands that there are guns that still can use HB, so reworking HB to do something different is detrimental to the game IMO.

 

Also, I find it's interesting that you mention the Below Zero, as the CR762 is a great example of one of the few, if not the only gun that can rock HB3 and benefit without increased STK, and I'd personally consider the Below Zero as a totally sound setup for the gun.

 

Here's a short list of a few guns I can think of off of the top of my head that I consider HB viable on are as follows:

• N-SSW (HB2, in fact HB2 is by far the best red mod on this gun IMO.)
• NCR (HB2, Perhaps not technically as good as CJ3 or IR3, but it has its place.)
• CR762 (HB1-3)
• COBR-A (HB2, really underrated gun BTW. HB2 and CJ3 are tied for best to me, HB3 is okay but not my preference.)
• DMR-SD (HB3)

And as an honorable mention, the Nano, 'cause even though you can't get it with HB3 it would be damned good if you could.

 

But basically, the reason Heavy Barrel is rarely used is because people will never like the idea of reducing their damage output, so to make the mod substantially more used you'd either make it so good it was borderline OP, or replace the downside, and at the point where you're replacing the downside there's no reason to not just create a new mod, as there's no downside to adding a new mod and that will simply add more variety, something that I'm pretty sure most people agree loadouts in APB are lacking in nowadays.

 

BUT, if you really wanted to buff HB instead of reworking it, I'd suggest changing the bloom reduction from 10/20/30 to 15/30/45, I think 30% bloom reduction on HB2 would make it a much more attractive mod, and with 45% reduced bloom you might even see HB3 being used. I would not decrease the downside as a buff to HB, because in my opinion that effectively just reduces options, as it makes the total range of damage you can sacrifice lesser, and ultimately HB is one of the few mods that people already use multiple levels of, so I wouldn't fuck with that because that's already a good part of HB.

 

(P.S. guns are much different from mods as far as all of this goes. Not only are there TONS of guns in APB, and as such the chances of all of them seeing the spotlight are little to none, but every mod has the potential to have an affect on nearly every gun in the game, making the effects of changing mods potentially much greater. This is the reason Scott finally reverted IR's downside, because he realized that there was a portion of the guns in the game that the downside had very sub-optimal effects on balance and gameplay. By changing HB to work entirely differently, you have a high chance of estranging users who already use it, whereas by adding a new mod there's no real downside.)

[Nitronik 348]

shotgun spread?