Pistol Dual Wielding Mechanics

[MurkTheMerc 111]

The weapon as subject I will be using is the OBEYA FBW.

 

1. Dual Wielding should present itself as a Primary Weapon that also fills place of the Secondary slot, but as it already acts as a Secondary if drawn from the Secondary slot.
2. Magazine pool would only be extended because you now hold two guns, I.E, the OBEYA FBW holds 15 rounds so as a Dual Wield, it will have 30 rounds, each pistol will hold their own amount, this is given reason later explained on . Ammo held in each pistol can be indicated by small numbers on the aiming reticule and/or as is in the top right of the screen.
3. Shots to kill would remain at 6 and the time to kill would be the same as it is for the FBW currently is, 1 second. So pretty much, it's like as if you're firing one pistol with an extended magazine.As suggested by VickyFox and others, the shots to kill could be doubled and the time to kill stay the samr, the weapons would simply fire faster.
4. When in hipfire, the reticule should only be bigger than the secondary usually is when it is firing from the hip by itself. When in MM, the pistols should be firing with the same accuracy if you were hipfiring with the pistol by itself.
5. When the pistols are drawn from the Primary Slot, you will have both guns out, when you draw from your Secondary Slot, you will have one pistol out.
6. When both pistols are drawn as a Primary, firing from the hip will fire the pistols in an alternating fashion, when fired in MM, the shoulder view you are looking over, you will ONLY fire that pistol from that side. This will follow the rule as discussed earlier, that each pistol will hold their own amount of ammo in the magazine. When switching to your pistol as a secondary, what ever shoulder you were last looking over, is with pistol you use for it's current magazine.

 

As far as I would suggest to limit this to just the FBW and the FROG weapon series. Reaching a certain level with GunSlinger role seems reasonable or even just reaching Level 6(MAX) with it.

 

To equip the pistols as Primarys, you would simply unequip your Primary from the Primary slot.

 

For those asking or saying, "Why would you want this?" "It's dumb, it doesn't fit the game!" I thought this up after seeing people request a feature but not have explanations to how to implement it into the game in a balanced way. I'd see Dual Wielding as a "I wanna look cool" mechanic, even if it isn't the most effective thing to use during certain scenarios but someone's gonna make it work somehow if they try hard enough.

Ideally this is a trophy for maxing GunSlinger role besides getting a Chrome skin.

Edited July 12, 2018 by MurkTheMerc

[LilyV3 323]

I am not sure if it woudl fit the APB Theme, duall wielding would be much too arcadish and also some wepaons dual wielded, that has other broken niches, like those tight camping spots with PDW and N-FA. while most other dual wield chocies would be quite inferior, due to the reduces accuracy. 

 

honestly, whats the point of limiting it to the guns you mentioned? a less accurate FWB with increased mag? no one really needs that. and to look cool? well maybe thats something for some events to do.

 

So if we would get some dual wield mechanics we would need some properly implemented mechanics that make it viable at all. Maybe some secondary unrelated wepaons and own dual wield specific weapons. They coudl then mechanic wise be as (in)anncurate as a the Tommy gun. but just with different animation.

 

BTW, this raises the most important question of all: will the new devs get soem animations guy? Because iirc, G1 doesn't haad one anymore.

[freq 54]

1 minute ago, LilyV3 said:

BTW, this raises the most important question of all: will the new devs get soem animations guy? Because iirc, G1 doesn't haad one anymore.

Correct, they did not. I'd assume it's not exactly top priority at the moment, but I agree it would be cool to see at some point in the future. It severely hindered their ability to produce some of the content we've been asking for.

[MurkTheMerc 111]

25 minutes ago, LilyV3 said:

Quote

I am not sure if it woudl fit the APB Theme, duall wielding would be much too arcadish and also some wepaons dual wielded, that has other broken niches, like those tight camping spots with PDW and N-FA. while most other dual wield chocies would be quite inferior, due to the reduces accuracy.

As arcadish? We have sniper rifles that don't do headshots and a green mod that lets you tank a direct osmaw rocket.

 

 

Quote

honestly, whats the point of limiting it to the guns you mentioned? a less accurate FWB with increased mag? no one really needs that. and to look cool? well maybe thats something for some events to do.

I say limit it to those or balance sake, you just complained about some guns being annoying in your previous statement. It's not that it's viable, you just unlock it and can use it, it's meant for cqc and right out side of it. The weapon set is there as something atleast to unlock way later on instead of just some Chrome weapon skin.

 

Quote

So if we would get some dual wield mechanics we would need some properly implemented mechanics that make it viable at all. Maybe some secondary unrelated wepaons and own dual wield specific weapons. They coudl then mechanic wise be as (in)anncurate as a the Tommy gun. but just with different animation.

Only thing that should be dual wielded is pistols, making primaries dual weldable is going against what you said earlier about being too arcadish.

 

Quote

BTW, this raises the most important question of all: will the new devs get soem animations guy? Because iirc, G1 doesn't haad one anymore.

Who knows, I'm sure they'll look for one when they need it. Otherwise, this is just another suggestion, who cares about priorities till it matters?

 

[LilyV3 323]

2 minutes ago, MurkTheMerc said:

 

arcadish as in not very lore friendly, we have snipers that don't headshot because a TPS headshot game would be just unbalancable broken. Thats a mechanic-wise given necessarity. TPS + one shot wepaosn is a HUGE problem for TPS games. because the defender hiding is in a massive advantage. FPS games don't have this issue, they are fair for both because both LOS  will hppen at the same time. But lurking at someonr around a corner or above a wall is just balance mechanical wise a much different topic.remember whe the osmaw fot a windup?  because instant suiciders were neither fun nor making any sense by gameplay wise reasons.

 

Stuff like happy landing and car surfer, they indeed do feel a bit arcadish, which I don't like that much.

 

I mean look at GTA, that game is pure arcade,

[MurkTheMerc 111]

6 minutes ago, LilyV3 said:

arcadish as in not very lore friendly, we have snipers that don't headshot because a TPS headshot game would be just unbalancable broken. Thats a mechanic-wise given necessarity. TPS + one shot wepaosn is a HUGE problem for TPS games. because the defender hiding is in a massive advantage. FPS games don't have this issue, they are fair for both because both LOS  will hppen at the same time. But lurking at someonr around a corner or above a wall is just balance mechanical wise a much different topic.remember whe the osmaw fot a windup?  because instant suiciders were neither fun nor making any sense by gameplay wise reasons.

 

Stuff like happy landing and car surfer, they indeed do feel a bit arcadish, which I don't like that much.

 

I mean look at GTA, that game is pure arcade,

I'm not saying there being no headshots is an issue, I'm asking, how is it not applicable, as you say lore friendly. Where's it say in the lore that dual wielding pistols isn't something achievable?

[LilyV3 323]

well, shooting duaklwield is a movie shitthing, dualwielding is not proper way to shoot guns. What you see is just 2 people posing, for looking cool.  APB still had that attemp to look a bit like a more realistic (less arcadish) anarchistic city theme.

 

[MurkTheMerc 111]

6 minutes ago, LilyV3 said:

well, shooting duaklwield is a movie shitthing, dualwielding is not proper way to shoot guns. What you see is just 2 people posing, for looking cool.  APB still had that attemp to look a bit like a more realistic (less arcadish) anarchistic city theme. 

 

So a big, 2 barreled, I'm aware one is cosmetic, automatic shotgun doesn't scream movie like, to you?

There's car surfer, you're literally standing on top of a car with full stability and able to place well aimed shots. You're worried they would add MORE movie shooting things? Hell, even Counter Strike has it and some players find it viable.

[iPlumbum 80]

14 minutes ago, LilyV3 said:

well, shooting duaklwield is a movie shitthing, dualwielding is not proper way to shoot guns. What you see is just 2 people posing, for looking cool.  APB still had that attemp to look a bit like a more realistic (less arcadish) anarchistic city theme.

 

???

 

All the character mod's available in the game disagrees with realism.

[LilyV3 323]

12 minutes ago, MurkTheMerc said:

So a big, 2 barreled, I'm aware one is cosmetic, automatic shotgun doesn't scream movie like, to you?

There's car surfer, you're literally standing on top of a car with full stability and able to place well aimed shots. You're worried they would add MORE movie shooting things? Hell, even Counter Strike has it and some players find it viable.

I already told about car surfer, and yes true ogre is the same, their additions are resulst of a somewhat clueless G1 that didn't had any new assets left and just released what was left in the files which initially didn't make it into the game (for a reason).

[VickyFox 353]

Sorry, it may be me but I'm a little confused, or is this suggestion more complicated than it needs to be?

uhhh lets just do this in order then I guess

 

1. I agree that the dual wielded weapons should be primary slotted.

 

2. Just to be clear, this new primary would have separate ammo mags for the 2 dual wielded guns. (I had to reread the post once I got to number 6 because of the wording.)

I think it would be fair to not have an increased amount of ammo and I'll explain in the next point but also you didn't mention at any point of your suggestion about damage of the dual weapons being different from the secondary on it's own.

What add more confusion to me is "OBEYA FBW holds 15 rounds so as a Dual Wield, it will have 30 rounds", "Ammo pool is to be considered increased to compensate for lack of other weapon" ...well no the ammunition total doubled and scaled up but has it increased is up for debate contextually.

 

3. ...so the dual pistols fire at the same rate as if you were firing just of them...

...Now why would you do this...? 

Why not lower the overall damage of the guns and accuracy but have the primary shoot both individual guns as if they were seperate with double the fire rate?

These Primaries could rival SMGs then, depending gun the dual wield is based on

 

4. I agree that the primary could have a bit of bloom the faster the guns are fired.

 

5. Again i had to reread the first point. If both dual wielded hand guns have independent ammunition in their clips then which one clip would be used when switching to secondary?

 

6. Switching shoulders and using marksmans will use the retaliative sided gun, Now that is a mechanic that is quite original and I like it!

 

 

Overall yeah I feel it's over complicated in the explanations, although in play it's not as complicated.

The fact a primary mixed with a secondary I felt complicated and confused things for me and I wonder if it would confuse new players using dual wielded guns.

 

 

 

...At this point it's been half an hour trying to get my head around the OP, and am wanting to give my thoughts and opinions but it's wording in context is just confusing me.

Because it was so confusing I just wonna say no to the suggestion but it is so good in concept.

 

Lastly I doubt this would be possible in APB due to the game's limitations even if Little Orbit fixes the the older broken codes, It would need a quite a bit of coding to do and need new animations.

Bare in mind that the muzzle flash, tracers and audio would alternate from 2 different sides of the character which is something that has never been done on APB before, and that may not be possible for this game.

[MurkTheMerc 111]

2 hours ago, VickyFox said:

Sorry, it may be me but I'm a little confused, or is this suggestion more complicated than it needs to be?

uhhh lets just do this in order then I guess

 

1. I agree that the dual wielded weapons should be primary slotted.

 

2. Just to be clear, this new primary would have separate ammo mags for the 2 dual wielded guns. (I had to reread the post once I got to number 6 because of the wording.)

I think it would be fair to not have an increased amount of ammo and I'll explain in the next point but also you didn't mention at any point of your suggestion about damage of the dual weapons being different from the secondary on it's own.

What add more confusion to me is "OBEYA FBW holds 15 rounds so as a Dual Wield, it will have 30 rounds", "Ammo pool is to be considered increased to compensate for lack of other weapon" ...well no the ammunition total doubled and scaled up but has it increased is up for debate contextually.

 

3. ...so the dual pistols fire at the same rate as if you were firing just of them...

...Now why would you do this...? 

Why not lower the overall damage of the guns and accuracy but have the primary shoot both individual guns as if they were seperate with double the fire rate?

These Primaries could rival SMGs then, depending gun the dual wield is based on

 

4. I agree that the primary could have a bit of bloom the faster the guns are fired.

 

5. Again i had to reread the first point. If both dual wielded hand guns have independent ammunition in their clips then which one clip would be used when switching to secondary?

 

6. Switching shoulders and using marksmans will use the retaliative sided gun, Now that is a mechanic that is quite original and I like it!

 

 

Overall yeah I feel it's over complicated in the explanations, although in play it's not as complicated.

The fact a primary mixed with a secondary I felt complicated and confused things for me and I wonder if it would confuse new players using dual wielded guns.

 

 

 

...At this point it's been half an hour trying to get my head around the OP, and am wanting to give my thoughts and opinions but it's wording in context is just confusing me.

Because it was so confusing I just wonna say no to the suggestion but it is so good in concept.

 

Lastly I doubt this would be possible in APB due to the game's limitations even if Little Orbit fixes the the older broken codes, It would need a quite a bit of coding to do and need new animations.

Bare in mind that the muzzle flash, tracers and audio would alternate from 2 different sides of the character which is something that has never been done on APB before, and that may not be possible for this game.

I fixed the OP from what you said and will implement 3 as a choice of idea because in my discussions with others half will go with mine and some others mention something similar to yours.As well as the ammo reserve, the current ammo pool may be fine, it would just tempt someone to use their Field Supplier sooner.

 

As for your last paragraph, I'm not worried if they can do it or not atm, it's about ideas and fleshing then out. I've been away for 2 years and thought I would stop seeing people request features but give the devs no way to implement it form a thought out manner. It's like saying I want a cake but they give me a chocolate one because I didn't specify I wanted vanilla, I proceed to follow through like the community doesn't and throw a fit.

[Kerelith 2]

I'm not fond of the idea of adding an Akimbo mechanic to the game, it would be a lot of work, but most importantly as a player the balancing issues could be a problem.

If the mechanics not balanced just right everyone will complain Akimbo is broken, if it's too weak they'll say it is crap and pointless.

It will also possibly have a knock-on effect to individual pistols being adjusted around it, making them less viable as secondary weapons.

 

However, I think having a primary slot with a new "weapon" that was dual pistols could be cool. New pistols that look different to any of the current ones and can be adjusted purely by itself.

Essentially a semi-auto SMG or a carbine, it could then have it's stats adjusted without affecting any other weapon.

This would also allow for a user to equip an RSA or whatever people use as a long range pistol if they wish.

[MoeEveryWeek 34]

8 hours ago, VickyFox said:

-Snip-

About the fire rate part, it really depends how the gun would be fired anyways like in Payday 2 when dual pistols are fired 1 click fire 1 shot from each gun, then there's other games that 1 click fires 1 bullet from 1 gun, then there's Just Cause series, where they utilize both mouse buttons to shoot from each hand and there is a seperate buttom to go into MM

[VickyFox 353]

16 minutes ago, MoeEveryWeek said:

About the fire rate part, it really depends how the gun would be fired anyways like in Payday 2 when dual pistols are fired 1 click fire 1 shot from each gun, then there's other games that 1 click fires 1 bullet from 1 gun, then there's Just Cause series, where they utilize both mouse buttons to shoot from each hand and there is a seperate buttom to go into MM

A good point but I think for consistency for old and new players, controls should be kept as close to as they are now as possible with the mechanics adapted to it.

But that's just my feelings.

[MoeEveryWeek 34]

14 minutes ago, VickyFox said:

A good point but I think for consistency for old and new players, controls should be kept as close to as they are now as possible with the mechanics adapted to it.

But that's just my feelings.

Right now it would be leaning to the other games part as most players are just used to 1 click = 1 bullet, with the exception of burst fire weapons

[MurkTheMerc 111]

2 hours ago, Kerelith Sanctus said:

I'm not fond of the idea of adding an Akimbo mechanic to the game, it would be a lot of work, but most importantly as a player the balancing issues could be a problem.

If the mechanics not balanced just right everyone will complain Akimbo is broken, if it's too weak they'll say it is crap and pointless.

It will also possibly have a knock-on effect to individual pistols being adjusted around it, making them less viable as secondary weapons.

 

However, I think having a primary slot with a new "weapon" that was dual pistols could be cool. New pistols that look different to any of the current ones and can be adjusted purely by itself.

Essentially a semi-auto SMG or a carbine, it could then have it's stats adjusted without affecting any other weapon.

This would also allow for a user to equip an RSA or whatever people use as a long range pistol if they wish.

"Shots to kill would remain at 6 and the time to kill would be the same as it is for the FBW currently is, 1 second. So pretty much, it's like as if you're firing one pistol with an extended magazine.As suggested by VickyFox and others, the shots to kill could be doubled and the time to kill stay the samr, the weapons would simply fire faster."

 

I'm not sure if you read this piece for balance in my post. The weapon is a trophy item at most. Some people will make it work, some won't. If you didn't know, the FBW TTK is 1 second and is 6 shots to kill, it used to be 5. Back when it was 5, people complained but now the community seems to be okay with it.

 

I said if you remove your primary and only have a secondary equipped, if you have GunSlinger role 6, you will have two pistols held in your primary slot.

 

As for dual wielding the automatic secondaries, that does give me a scare, but I could honestly only see those as a OCA remesh of sorts, or be their own unique SMG.

[DahSurvivor1243 0]

It would be interesting to see a dual wield mechanic implemented, but I’d rather see it as an attachment for semi auto pistols only. It would make the full auto secondaries and the Joker pistol too overpowered, but that’s just my opinion.

[MoeEveryWeek 34]

6 minutes ago, (Xbox)DahSurvivor1243 said:

It would be interesting to see a dual wield mechanic implemented, but I’d rather see it as an attachment for semi auto pistols only. It would make the full auto secondaries and the Joker pistol too overpowered, but that’s just my opinion.

Either way, realistically you wouldn't be able to control it, full auto, even in games, moving your mouse to control the strength is a tough action, and semi auto, they are mainly meant for precision so going akimbo would just go against for what it is used for.

[BrandonBranderson 672]

This game has been advertised since the beginning as an arcadey fun action game in pre-release interviews from RTW staff.  Dual weilding pistols does not contradict with the lore in any way, I don't know why that was even mentioned. Where does the lore say that it's impossible to hold a pistol in each hand?  In promotional stuff we see characters doing it all the time and no, this game was never meant to be realistic.  It was supposed to be fun.  The RTW devs even described it as an action movie.

 

Fun>Realism

Edited May 29, 2018 by BrandonBranderson

[MurkTheMerc 111]

bump

[scaredofsnakes 52]

Or, we could fix lag.

[MurkTheMerc 111]

On 7/9/2018 at 11:57 PM, scaredofsnakes said:

Or, we could fix lag.

This is only a suggestion, not "This needs to be done first."