How to properly nerf the Snipers.

[asper 2]

Add weapon sway that's random and increase the zoom - like a lot.
You can also revert the damage modifications done since they would render the weapons useless due to the low reliability in combat.

Why I think this is a better way of nerfing those weapons:
 1. Making the weapons deal less damage or a lot less while moving doesn't change the fact that they've got the longest range in the game, players are still going to camp spots from 100 meters away just because of that < and this will automatically make people complain on the forums that this weapon hasn't been nerfed enough yet.
 2. When it comes to Snipers, there'll be a way higher skill ceiling and kills with them will overall feel that much better.

If anything removing a magazine of ammo from the reserves would've also been a good nerf. Constant resupply will mean that the points wouldn't be under watch forever.

Edited September 10, 2021 by asper

[FakeBungo 248]

the issue with HVR is that it does high damage in 1 shot, this does not play nicely with APB's slow health regen.

the scout is relatively more balanced because it does barely enough damage to 2 shot kill someone.

the DMR is more suited as a sniper because it does bonus damage at max range. plus if you have the DMR AV it also plays as a nice support weapon instead of being useless when someone uses a car.

they could nerf the HVR somehow, but then if would probably end up being useless. then people would use the scout.

and the issue with the DMR AV is its a straight pay2win upgrade of the regular DMR.

[asper 2]

18 hours ago, FakeBungo said:

the issue with HVR is that it does high damage in 1 shot, this does not play nicely with APB's slow health regen.

the scout is relatively more balanced because it does barely enough damage to 2 shot kill someone.

the DMR is more suited as a sniper because it does bonus damage at max range. plus if you have the DMR AV it also plays as a nice support weapon instead of being useless when someone uses a car.

they could nerf the HVR somehow, but then if would probably end up being useless. then people would use the scout.

and the issue with the DMR AV is its a straight pay2win upgrade of the regular DMR.

The high damage per shot wouldn't be as much of an issue if it was harder to hit it, especially if the sway is much greater on the heavier snipers.

I don't see that much of a difference between DMR and DMR AV honestly. They both 3 shot under 90 meters and 2 shot above that range.

Edit: As we speak, the Scout counterpart of the HVR is the only truly usable one. You've got mobility, swapping speed, ~70% of the heavy HVR's total damage and a lot more ammo.

Edited September 12, 2021 by asper
forgor to add

[LilyRain 674]

On 9/10/2021 at 8:02 PM, asper said:

1. Making the weapons deal less damage or a lot less while moving doesn't change the fact that they've got the longest range in the game, players are still going to camp spots from 100 meters away just because of that

Quick note: That's not a fact. OSMAW's range is far longer and Players already camped objectives at 142.5 meters with it.
 

On 9/10/2021 at 8:02 PM, asper said:

 2. When it comes to Snipers, there'll be a way higher skill ceiling and kills with them will overall feel that much better.

Bullet-based weapons in APB are completely hit-scan as real bullets do not exist. There is no compensation from the player needed to account for gravity, wind, etc.. Therefore, Sniping in this game is one of the easiest things one can do. Therefore, the skill ceiling isn't high at all, especially for N-HVR 762.

 

What feels satisfying is subjective and irrelevant to balancing.

 

On 9/10/2021 at 8:02 PM, asper said:

If anything removing a magazine of ammo from the reserves would've also been a good nerf. Constant resupply will mean that the points wouldn't be under watch forever.

In theory yes but in practice, Mobile Supply Unit and Resupply Box exist.

 

On 9/10/2021 at 8:02 PM, asper said:

Add weapon sway

That would be interesting and immersive but won't really make the weapon easier/harder to use in a hit-scan game.

[asper 2]

2 hours ago, LilyRain said:

Quick note: That's not a fact. OSMAW's range is far longer and Players already camped objectives at 142.5 meters with it.
 

Bullet-based weapons in APB are completely hit-scan as real bullets do not exist. There is no compensation from the player needed to account for gravity, wind, etc.. Therefore, Sniping in this game is one of the easiest things one can do. Therefore, the skill ceiling isn't high at all, especially for N-HVR 762.

 

What feels satisfying is subjective and irrelevant to balancing.

 

In theory yes but in practice, Mobile Supply Unit and Resupply Box exist.

 

That would be interesting and immersive but won't really make the weapon easier/harder to use in a hit-scan game.

Nerf OSMAW then is what you're saying.

got it

[LilyRain 674]

27 minutes ago, asper said:

Nerf OSMAW then is what you're saying.

got it

I'm saying you didn't do your homework, in more than 1 way.

[asper 2]

6 hours ago, LilyRain said:

I'm saying you didn't do your homework, in more than 1 way.

What do you have against me?

Because from the looks of it, you're just disfavouring my suggestion and putting it in the worst light possible.

Of course that a heavy and altering weapon sway based on your movement and however much you'd be aiming for will increase the weapon's use difficulty, so will a greatly increased zoom - people don't use High Mag Scope for a reason. Those that do probably prefer it that way, but even so any weapon is way harder to play with that mod equipped.

And of course that 'on paper' there are ammo vending places, but that doesn't mean everybody will sacrifice a car spawn for it, a better position or their blowtorch/shield.

I want to see more good montages made for this game which is why I pointed out the fact that getting kills with Snipers will feel 'that much better'. The odds for an 'HVR-only' montage would be way higher.

I wouldn't expect you to reply to this in any other way, you'll keep saying that I'm in the wrong much like you did about my prior replies. All I care about is that I shared my suggestion with everyone that was willing to read it.

Also, explosives do need a range nerf. OPGL can throw up to 90 meters or so idk but it's too far. OSMAW can shoot over 140 and volcano can literally 1 shot anything at over 80 meters.

[LilyRain 674]

2 hours ago, asper said:

What do you have against me?

Because from the looks of it, you're just disfavouring my suggestion and putting it in the worst light possible.

Again, you based your suggestion on only 2 points. The first being a wrong 'fact' and the second being subjective and personal-opinion about what 'feels good'. Neither of them are valid enough nor accurate to warrant a change.

 

Perhaps suggest some real numbers and stress why they would fit. You might get more support if you hit a reasonable mark.

3 hours ago, asper said:

Of course that a heavy and altering weapon sway based on your movement and however much you'd be aiming for will increase the weapon's use difficulty, so will a greatly increased zoom - people don't use High Mag Scope for a reason. Those that do probably prefer it that way, but even so any weapon is way harder to play with that mod equipped.

Again, you didn't research enough.

 

The reason people don't use High Mag Scope not because 'it is harder, but because the marksman benefit is the exact same as Hunting Sight 3 so there is no point in using it. Additionally, it removes the crosshair (but people are getting into using overlays so these days, that is slightly less of a factor than it used to be, still a factor nontheless).

 

I guarantee you, if High Mag Scope is changed to give a better Marksman Modifier (meaning more accuracy), you WILL get to see it being used.

 

And you need to step back and think about what you presented here. You are aware people don't like excessive-zoom yet you are forcing a change that people don't really like without even objectively showing why it would be better for the game. That's simply not the way. I am sorry but calling that stunt stupid would in fact be a compliment for how ridiculous you really were in this portion.

 

3 hours ago, asper said:

And of course that 'on paper' there are ammo vending places, but that doesn't mean everybody will sacrifice a car spawn for it, a better position or their blowtorch/shield.

 

Previously, you have suggested: "removing a magazine of ammo from the reserves would've also been a good nerf. Constant resupply will mean that the points wouldn't be under watch forever".

 

If such a change happens and Snipers get to carry one less magazine, why would a Sniper who camps objectives on purpose from afar require/choose Mobile Car Spawner over Mobile Supply Unit....? Why would they need blowtorch and shield when they aren't car-playing nor having much competition over that range due to APB's aggressive damage-reduction-over-range guaranteeing them having superior damage output over the likes of OSCAR, N-tec, etc?

 

Shield, that's a good one. If you haven't noticed, Players use their own vehicle as cover if none exists.

 

3 hours ago, asper said:

I want to see more good montages made for this game which is why I pointed out the fact that getting kills with Snipers will feel 'that much better'. The odds for an 'HVR-only' montage would be way higher.

You are epicly late for the party. HVR-only montages were uploaded years upon years to YouTube back in the day when HVR gameplay was more fluid.

 

In the current days when most Montage-makers play with clay/molten-icecream graphics, what your suggesting would only mean getting to see the target closer as they die. It won't make Sniper-gameplay actually fluid again nor bring back some of the Sniper-mains who played nothing but Snipers. It'll actually push them away.

 

3 hours ago, asper said:

I wouldn't expect you to reply to this in any other way, you'll keep saying that I'm in the wrong much like you did about my prior replies. All I care about is that I shared my suggestion with everyone that was willing to read it.

Because you ARE in the wrong. Your knowledge has obvious mistakes and the way you connect things implies you used to play in the Bronze-District. No offense but again, a Sniper at the edge of the visible playfield using Mobile Cover when they would literally use their own car as cover... Please.

 

What's wrong with saying you are in the wrong, especially when you rushed to make a thread rather than think and polish it through? Do you always expect people to agree with mistakes and nonsense? What's wrong with you?

 

3 hours ago, asper said:

Also, explosives do need a range nerf. OPGL can throw up to 90 meters or so idk but it's too far. OSMAW can shoot over 140 and volcano can literally 1 shot anything at over 80 meters.

Of course, O-PGL is a grenade launcher. It exists to launch grenades over long distances and mostly to flush out campers in one of the esteemed fortress areas where even a Sniper can't finish them off. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it as is but if you insist on tweaking it, there is nothing much that can be done about O-PGL without substantially changing how grenades are thrown or actually ending up buffing O-PGL and the reasoning for this is very simple:

 

- Grenade Speed: With the exception of the Snowball and Eight-Ball (which travel at 35 m/s), naturally O-PGL should launch grenades the fastest. In comparison, the conventional Concussion Grenade travels at 15.5 m/s and Low-Yield at 20 m/s. If O-PGL's Grenade Speed is to be reduced from 23.5 to nerf its overall range, all of these must go down as well (which would certainly break the game as a Concussion's Speed is at a good place now). Else, you'll end up with something that looks really stupid since it launches slower than your own hand.

 

- Fuse Delay: If O-PGL's range is reduced by reducing the Fuse Delay, you'll actually end up buffing the weapon as grenades will explode faster than 5 seconds. Perhaps 4 seconds is an interesting place but ALL weapons across the board will need a small buff to compensate. It also won't really hurt O-PGL's range that much, it'll still be very useful if not even more useful [Brace for Asylum O-PGL Haters].

 

------------------------------------------------------

OSMAW should be an easy fix if its range is to be toned down to 100m. Sounds good.

------------------------------------------------------

83 meters for Volcano but that's a yes and no. The tradeoff lies in it being weaker than OSMAW below 83 meters, so it is like DMR to Snipers in a sense. Bluntly take that away and Volcano would be useless.

 

Volcano is less dangerous than DMR so its range isn't really a problem, more so you can survive a rocket with Flak Jacket if you are slow enough to need it. Its problem is that it launches 2 rockets when each is already faster than OSMAW.

[FakeBungo 248]

21 hours ago, asper said:

The high damage per shot wouldn't be as much of an issue if it was harder to hit it, especially if the sway is much greater on the heavier snipers.

I don't see that much of a difference between DMR and DMR AV honestly. They both 3 shot under 90 meters and 2 shot above that range.

Edit: As we speak, the Scout counterpart of the HVR is the only truly usable one. You've got mobility, swapping speed, ~70% of the heavy HVR's total damage and a lot more ammo.

DMR AV does 67% more dmg to cars, AV stands for anti-vehicle

 

Merged.

 

4 hours ago, LilyRain said:

Again, you based your suggestion on only 2 points. The first being a wrong 'fact' and the second being subjective and personal-opinion about what 'feels good'. Neither of them are valid enough nor accurate to warrant a change.

 

Perhaps suggest some real numbers and stress why they would fit. You might get more support if you hit a reasonable mark.

Again, you didn't research enough.

 

The reason people don't use High Mag Scope not because 'it is harder, but because the marksman benefit is the exact same as Hunting Sight 3 so there is no point in using it. Additionally, it removes the crosshair (but people are getting into using overlays so these days, that is slightly less of a factor than it used to be, still a factor nontheless).

 

I guarantee you, if High Mag Scope is changed to give a better Marksman Modifier (meaning more accuracy), you WILL get to see it being used.

 

And you need to step back and think about what you presented here. You are aware people don't like excessive-zoom yet you are forcing a change that people don't really like without even objectively showing why it would be better for the game. That's simply not the way. I am sorry but calling that stunt stupid would in fact be a compliment for how ridiculous you really were in this portion.

 

 

Previously, you have suggested: "removing a magazine of ammo from the reserves would've also been a good nerf. Constant resupply will mean that the points wouldn't be under watch forever".

 

If such a change happens and Snipers get to carry one less magazine, why would a Sniper who camps objectives on purpose from afar require/choose Mobile Car Spawner over Mobile Supply Unit....? Why would they need blowtorch and shield when they aren't car-playing nor having much competition over that range due to APB's aggressive damage-reduction-over-range guaranteeing them having superior damage output over the likes of OSCAR, N-tec, etc?

 

Shield, that's a good one. If you haven't noticed, Players use their own vehicle as cover if none exists.

 

You are epicly late for the party. HVR-only montages were uploaded years upon years to YouTube back in the day when HVR gameplay was more fluid.

 

In the current days when most Montage-makers play with clay/molten-icecream graphics, what your suggesting would only mean getting to see the target closer as they die. It won't make Sniper-gameplay actually fluid again nor bring back some of the Sniper-mains who played nothing but Snipers. It'll actually push them away.

 

Because you ARE in the wrong. Your knowledge has obvious mistakes and the way you connect things implies you used to play in the Bronze-District. No offense but again, a Sniper at the edge of the visible playfield using Mobile Cover when they would literally use their own car as cover... Please.

 

What's wrong with saying you are in the wrong, especially when you rushed to make a thread rather than think and polish it through? Do you always expect people to agree with mistakes and nonsense? What's wrong with you?

 

Of course, O-PGL is a grenade launcher. It exists to launch grenades over long distances and mostly to flush out campers in one of the esteemed fortress areas where even a Sniper can't finish them off. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it as is but if you insist on tweaking it, there is nothing much that can be done about O-PGL without substantially changing how grenades are thrown or actually ending up buffing O-PGL and the reasoning for this is very simple:

 

- Grenade Speed: With the exception of the Snowball and Eight-Ball (which travel at 35 m/s), naturally O-PGL should launch grenades the fastest. In comparison, the conventional Concussion Grenade travels at 15.5 m/s and Low-Yield at 20 m/s. If O-PGL's Grenade Speed is to be reduced from 23.5 to nerf its overall range, all of these must go down as well (which would certainly break the game as a Concussion's Speed is at a good place now). Else, you'll end up with something that looks really stupid since it launches slower than your own hand.

 

- Fuse Delay: If O-PGL's range is reduced by reducing the Fuse Delay, you'll actually end up buffing the weapon as grenades will explode faster than 5 seconds. Perhaps 4 seconds is an interesting place but ALL weapons across the board will need a small buff to compensate. It also won't really hurt O-PGL's range that much, it'll still be very useful if not even more useful [Brace for Asylum O-PGL Haters].

 

------------------------------------------------------

OSMAW should be an easy fix if its range is to be toned down to 100m. Sounds good.

------------------------------------------------------

83 meters for Volcano but that's a yes and no. The tradeoff lies in it being weaker than OSMAW below 83 meters, so it is like DMR to Snipers in a sense. Bluntly take that away and Volcano would be useless.

 

Volcano is less dangerous than DMR so its range isn't really a problem, more so you can survive a rocket with Flak Jacket if you are slow enough to need it. Its problem is that it launches 2 rockets when each is already faster than OSMAW.

Volcano should do less damage to players because you have to be really bad to miss both rockets, they could also consider making it have slightly slower projectile speed than the Osmaw for balance too, the reason being its harder to dodge 2 rockets than it is one.

I wouldn't touch Osmaw's max range just to band-aid fix camping objectives from super far away.

OPGL is pretty balanced, they just need to fix the tracer and grenade projectile so its actually easy to see and therefore dodge it, or know where the player who is using OPGL is.

Edited September 13, 2021 by FakeBungo

[asper 2]

8 hours ago, LilyRain said:

Again, you based your suggestion on only 2 points. The first being a wrong 'fact' and the second being subjective and personal-opinion about what 'feels good'. Neither of them are valid enough nor accurate to warrant a change.

 

Perhaps suggest some real numbers and stress why they would fit. You might get more support if you hit a reasonable mark.

Again, you didn't research enough.

 

The reason people don't use High Mag Scope not because 'it is harder, but because the marksman benefit is the exact same as Hunting Sight 3 so there is no point in using it. Additionally, it removes the crosshair (but people are getting into using overlays so these days, that is slightly less of a factor than it used to be, still a factor nontheless).

 

I guarantee you, if High Mag Scope is changed to give a better Marksman Modifier (meaning more accuracy), you WILL get to see it being used.

 

And you need to step back and think about what you presented here. You are aware people don't like excessive-zoom yet you are forcing a change that people don't really like without even objectively showing why it would be better for the game. That's simply not the way. I am sorry but calling that stunt stupid would in fact be a compliment for how ridiculous you really were in this portion.

 

 

Previously, you have suggested: "removing a magazine of ammo from the reserves would've also been a good nerf. Constant resupply will mean that the points wouldn't be under watch forever".

 

If such a change happens and Snipers get to carry one less magazine, why would a Sniper who camps objectives on purpose from afar require/choose Mobile Car Spawner over Mobile Supply Unit....? Why would they need blowtorch and shield when they aren't car-playing nor having much competition over that range due to APB's aggressive damage-reduction-over-range guaranteeing them having superior damage output over the likes of OSCAR, N-tec, etc?

 

Shield, that's a good one. If you haven't noticed, Players use their own vehicle as cover if none exists.

 

You are epicly late for the party. HVR-only montages were uploaded years upon years to YouTube back in the day when HVR gameplay was more fluid.

 

In the current days when most Montage-makers play with clay/molten-icecream graphics, what your suggesting would only mean getting to see the target closer as they die. It won't make Sniper-gameplay actually fluid again nor bring back some of the Sniper-mains who played nothing but Snipers. It'll actually push them away.

 

Because you ARE in the wrong. Your knowledge has obvious mistakes and the way you connect things implies you used to play in the Bronze-District. No offense but again, a Sniper at the edge of the visible playfield using Mobile Cover when they would literally use their own car as cover... Please.

 

What's wrong with saying you are in the wrong, especially when you rushed to make a thread rather than think and polish it through? Do you always expect people to agree with mistakes and nonsense? What's wrong with you?

 

Of course, O-PGL is a grenade launcher. It exists to launch grenades over long distances and mostly to flush out campers in one of the esteemed fortress areas where even a Sniper can't finish them off. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it as is but if you insist on tweaking it, there is nothing much that can be done about O-PGL without substantially changing how grenades are thrown or actually ending up buffing O-PGL and the reasoning for this is very simple:

 

- Grenade Speed: With the exception of the Snowball and Eight-Ball (which travel at 35 m/s), naturally O-PGL should launch grenades the fastest. In comparison, the conventional Concussion Grenade travels at 15.5 m/s and Low-Yield at 20 m/s. If O-PGL's Grenade Speed is to be reduced from 23.5 to nerf its overall range, all of these must go down as well (which would certainly break the game as a Concussion's Speed is at a good place now). Else, you'll end up with something that looks really stupid since it launches slower than your own hand.

 

- Fuse Delay: If O-PGL's range is reduced by reducing the Fuse Delay, you'll actually end up buffing the weapon as grenades will explode faster than 5 seconds. Perhaps 4 seconds is an interesting place but ALL weapons across the board will need a small buff to compensate. It also won't really hurt O-PGL's range that much, it'll still be very useful if not even more useful [Brace for Asylum O-PGL Haters].

 

------------------------------------------------------

OSMAW should be an easy fix if its range is to be toned down to 100m. Sounds good.

------------------------------------------------------

83 meters for Volcano but that's a yes and no. The tradeoff lies in it being weaker than OSMAW below 83 meters, so it is like DMR to Snipers in a sense. Bluntly take that away and Volcano would be useless.

 

Volcano is less dangerous than DMR so its range isn't really a problem, more so you can survive a rocket with Flak Jacket if you are slow enough to need it. Its problem is that it launches 2 rockets when each is already faster than OSMAW.

your IGN?

 

[LilyRain 674]

4 hours ago, asper said:

your IGN?

 

I'm not sure if you're planning to show me how you Mobile Cover and Blowtorch at 90+ meters with HVR or literally outright stupid to have a constructive reply.

No matter, it is common courtesy to give yours first so I get to show you the errors of your ways in-game as well.

[LilyRain 674]

13 hours ago, FakeBungo said:

Volcano should do less damage to players because you have to be really bad to miss both rockets, they could also consider making it have slightly slower projectile speed than the Osmaw for balance too, the reason being its harder to dodge 2 rockets than it is one.

I wouldn't touch Osmaw's max range just to band-aid fix camping objectives from super far away.

OPGL is pretty balanced, they just need to fix the tracer and grenade projectile so its actually easy to see and therefore dodge it, or know where the player who is using OPGL is.

Now THIS is more on point, I really wish OP was half as smart as you.

[MrM0dZ 55]

quick fix: don't expose yourself in the open and use snipers as well 

[Azukii 92]

Hello,

I have removed a significant number of posts that were off-topic. Please remain on-topic or unfortunately we will have to close the thread.

Thank you for your understanding.

 

- Azukii