@LittleOrbit Scroll Wheel Shooting

[vsb 6171]

2 minutes ago, Thial said:

Nope you won't bypass anything but the point is that you won't be able to achieve those shots which are perfectly spaced out by let's say 200ms by clicking LMB which scroll wheel can do for you. No matter how good you are you will never be able to click perfectly every 200ms for example and even if there's just let's say 50ms difference between your ttk and wheeler's ttk the wheel user will win every time therefore gaining an advantage over you since he will always have the top top best possible ttk and he will be 100% consistent with it every time which is not possible if you play normally, you will always be making tiny mistakes with every click unless you are a cyborg. That's why it's an issue imo. Maybe I phrased it wrong and it's not as bad as "cheating" but it's definitely an unwanted exploit which many people are abusing.

it’s not really an exploit imo, since it made it through 2 generations of dev teams

 

you’re basically just playing a play style geared towards cqc if you use the scroll wheel, which comes with its own downsides in return for that “perfect” ttk

[Zian 68]

An argument so old it's basically a relic in time. Honestly the scroll wheel option should just be removed all together, so this debate can be put to rest. Putting it in conjunction with people who are using aim bot, then yes it is cheating. Especially if said individuals are doing burst fire tactics with the scroll wheel rather than simply going "full auto" with it. Just learn to use the LMB properly. 

[Laughter 2]

2 hours ago, Thial said:

Nope you won't bypass anything but the point is that you won't be able to achieve those shots which are perfectly spaced out by let's say 200ms by clicking LMB which scroll wheel can do for you. No matter how good you are you will never be able to click perfectly every 200ms for example and even if there's just let's say 50ms difference between your ttk and wheeler's ttk the wheel user will win every time therefore gaining an advantage over you since he will always have the top top best possible ttk and he will be 100% consistent with it every time which is not possible if you play normally, you will always be making tiny mistakes with every click unless you are a cyborg. That's why it's an issue imo. Maybe I phrased it wrong and it's not as bad as "cheating" but it's definitely an unwanted exploit which many people are abusing.

I don't understand why people think that firing faster equals better...

 

So let's review the arguments here.

 

PROS OF SCROLL-WHEELING

   1) Perfect or near perfect RoF for semi autos.

CONS OF SCROLL-WHEELING

   1) Unable to control RoF unless you use mouse left click

   2) If you do use mouse left click at longer ranges for a controllable RoF, there is more for your brain to work through so you can't instantly react because you have to decide whether you scroll wheel or left click. If you're fighting players who are actually decent this is a HUUUUGE disadvantage.

 

The Oscar is an outlier because it doesn't bloom much so scroll-wheeling won't disadvantage it too much.

 

Also, a "good" mouse as you say, Thial, is a reliable mouse in my opinion. Like a mouse with a Pixart / Avago 3310 or a Pixart PMW3366. You can get a mouse with that fancy scroll-wheeling ability but will it be as reliable as one of these sensors? No, it won't. And that is proven. These are the two most reliable sensors on the market right now.

 

Edit: Logitech G403 has the PMW3366 and can scroll-wheel

Edited June 19, 2018 by Laughter

[Thial 176]

2 minutes ago, Laughter said:

I don't understand why people think that firing faster equals better...

 

So let's review the arguments here.

 

PROS OF SCROLL-WHEELING

   1) Perfect or near perfect RoF for semi autos.

CONS OF SCROLL-WHEELING

   1) Unable to control RoF unless you use mouse left click

   2) If you do use mouse left click at longer ranges for a controllable RoF, there is more for your brain to work through so you can't instantly react because you have to decide whether you scroll wheel or left click. If you're fighting players who are actually decent this is a HUUUUGE disadvantage.

 

The Oscar is an outlier because it doesn't bloom much so scroll-wheeling won't disadvantage it too much.

 

Also, a "good" mouse as you say, Thial, is a reliable mouse in my opinion. Like a mouse with a Pixart / Avago 3310 or a Pixart PMW3366. You can get a mouse with that fancy scroll-wheeling ability but will it be as reliable as one of these sensors? No, it won't. And that is proven. These are the two most reliable sensors on the market right now.

1st of all oscar doesn't bloom, you can shoot as fast as you possibly can as long as you are on point. About the mouse, just get a logitech.

[Laughter 2]

6 minutes ago, Thial said:

1st of all oscar doesn't bloom, you can shoot as fast as you possibly can as long as you are on point. About the mouse, just get a logitech.

I just mentioned how the Oscar is an outlier, also it does bloom a bit. Also, if you check my edit I corrected myself that the Logitech G403 has a good sensor and can scroll-wheel.

 

Now theoretically speaking...

If you were to go pro, you cannot scroll-wheel. Your brain needs to react and shoot, not think... "oh hurr durr should I scroll-wheel or left click?"

 

Conclusion

Scroll-wheeling works against noobs, or can help in cqc if you are primarily scroll-wheeling. For more serious gameplay it is a hindrance.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Laughter
Fixed grammar

[vsb 6171]

2 hours ago, Zian said:

An argument so old it's basically a relic in time. Honestly the scroll wheel option should just be removed all together, so this debate can be put to rest. Putting it in conjunction with people who are using aim bot, then yes it is cheating. Especially if said individuals are doing burst fire tactics with the scroll wheel rather than simply going "full auto" with it. Just learn to use the LMB properly. 

why would you balance the game around people using cheats lol

[Zian 68]

1 hour ago, BXNNXD said:

why would you balance the game around people using cheats lol

I am assuming you misread what I meant. Here: Aim bot+Scroll wheel= Cheating. Made it as simple as I could for you. In no way did I say "Balance the game around people using cheats", nor was it suggested. I suggested that you balance the game to counter people using tactics that could otherwise be considered cheating.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Zian

[vsb 6171]

3 minutes ago, Zian said:

I am assuming you misread what I meant. Here: Aim bot+Scroll wheel= Cheating. Made it as simple as I could for you. In no way did I say "Balance the game around people using cheats", nor was it suggested. I suggested that you balance the game to counter people using tactics that could otherwise be considered cheating.

an aimbot is cheating, using the scroll wheel is not

 

theres no reason to even bring up an aimbot in this conversation 

[Zian 68]

1 minute ago, BXNNXD said:

an aimbot is cheating, using the scroll wheel is not

 

theres no reason to even bring up an aimbot in this conversation 

 If it has been used in combination with the scroll wheel in the past, then it is perfectly relevant to the current conversation. 

 

I get it, there are many people who want to protect their right to use the scroll wheel with their guns. But it's a pointless use of the button as quite a few posts in this thread have pointed out. I am not going let you instigate an argument, because you're fixated on something that has just been introduced into the conversation. 

[vsb 6171]

4 minutes ago, Zian said:

 If it has been used in combination with the scroll wheel in the past, then it is perfectly relevant to the current conversation. 

 

I get it, there are many people who want to protect their right to use the scroll wheel with their guns. But it's a pointless use of the button as quite a few posts in this thread have pointed out. I am not going let you instigate an argument, because you're fixated on something that has just been introduced into the conversation. 

its whatever, but throwing it together with an aimbot and then calling it cheating is hella weird

 

anything put together with an aimbot is cheating lol

[Zian 68]

7 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

its whatever, but throwing it together with an aimbot and then calling it cheating is hella weird

 

anything put together with an aimbot is cheating lol

It's not weird, it's a valid point. Alone it's fairly harmless, but in combination with something that could alter the game to a players favor, it's a recipe for causing legit players to leave the game.

 

Therefore removing it will end this stupid debate. This debate is whatever, simply put.

[vsb 6171]

1 minute ago, Zian said:

It's not weird, it's a valid point. Alone it's fairly harmless, but in combination with something that could alter the game to a players favor, it's a recipe for causing legit players to leave the game.

 

Therefore removing it will end this stupid debate. This debate is whatever, simply put.

thats like saying flaregun or radar tower in combination with wallhacks means they should be removed lol

[hotbot 16]

Using the Pioneer + aimbot is cheating remove it. Using the OCA with aimbot is cheating too. 

 

Youre argument doesnt make any any logical sense.

 

LO should focus on more important things than trying to fix a problem that doesn't really cause problems in the first place

[Zian 68]

2 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

thats like saying flaregun or radar tower in combination with wallhacks means they should be removed lol

No...

 

Flaregun and Radar tower already give you a similar advantage as a wall hack. Scroll wheel does not give you the same advantage as a aim bot.

 

Stop trying to dig for ways to come off as condescending, you're grasping at straws kiddo.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Zian

[vsb 6171]

1 minute ago, Zian said:

No...

 

Flaregun and Radar tower already give you a similar advantage as a wall hack. Scroll wheel does not give you the same advantage as a aim bot.

 

Stop trying to dig for ways to come off as condescending, you're grasping at straws kiddo.

im sorry you dont understand my attempt to illustrate that adding cheats to any ingame mechanic/item will make it problematic

[speee 90]

It is not even an advantage.

[Zian 68]

1 minute ago, hotbot said:

Using the Pioneer + aimbot is cheating remove it. Using the OCA with aimbot is cheating too. 

 

Youre argument doesnt make any any logical sense.

 

LO should focus on more important things than trying to fix a problem that doesn't really cause problems in the first place

It does because the scroll wheel itself is just been pointed out as a useless feature.

 

Pioneer is a vehicle, not a button for firing your gun.

OCA is a CQC weapon in conjunction with a cheat would actually pose a problem.

 

Your counter arguments are what seem to be lacking logic.

[hotbot 16]

Most cheats just use macros to max out the fire rate anyways

 

 

removing scroll wheel wouldn't change their ability to achieve a perfect fire rate

[Zian 68]

1 minute ago, BXNNXD said:

im sorry you dont understand my attempt to illustrate that adding cheats to any ingame mechanic/item will make it problematic

You're using very poor examples.

1 minute ago, hotbot said:

Most cheats just use macros to max out the fire rate anyways

 

 

removing scroll wheel wouldn't change their ability to achieve a perfect fire rate

But it would end this debate that has been going on for far too long.

[vsb 6171]

1 minute ago, Zian said:

You're using very poor examples.

But it would end this debate that has been going on for far too long.

i guess the examples could be bad, just matching up mechanics with complimentary cheats

 

theres a 6 page thread arguing about carspawners, should we just delete those as well?

[hotbot 16]

It isn't worth little orbit's time and it is near impossible to fix without a stupid amount of coding to prevent a mechanic that doesn't even matter

[Zian 68]

Just now, BXNNXD said:

i guess the examples could be bad, just matching up mechanics with complimentary cheats

 

theres a 6 page thread arguing about carspawners, should we just delete those as well?

Well now you're just being a banana.

[vsb 6171]

1 minute ago, Zian said:

Well now you're just being a banana.

all of your arguments fall apart because they apply to more than just the scroll wheel fix

 

hm

[Zian 68]

Just now, BXNNXD said:

all of your arguments fall apart because they apply to more than just the scroll wheel fix

 

hm

No my arguments haven't fallen apart. LOL

 

I merely suggested that the scroll wheel be removed so this debate would end once and for all.

 

You're the forum troll that fixated on this, and is now attempting to make a mockery of someone over a video game forum. It's pretty sad actually. But hey everyone has their hobbies I suppose.

[vsb 6171]

Just now, Zian said:

No my arguments haven't fallen apart. LOL

 

I merely suggested that the scroll wheel be removed so this debate would end once and for all.

 

You're the forum troll that fixated on this, and is now attempting to make a mockery of someone over a video game forum. It's pretty sad actually. But hey everyone has their hobbies I suppose.

since when is a debate mockery?

 

i havent insulted you once this entire exchange, im actually rather proud of myself tbh