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BrandonBranderson

Future Vehicle Changes/Prototype Districts

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As stated here: https://www.gamersfirst.com/apb/news/2020/1/20/hitting-the-road-map   There will be balance passes in the future for vehicles.  Here's a few suggestions that I'd personally like to see.  Not all are necessarily "balance" suggestions, some are just to make them more fun to drive, or in one case to make the vehicle itself actually make sense.

 

Sungnyemun Moirai SungnyemunMoirai.png

Give it AWD like it originally had.  Years ago G1 decided it was alright to remove the front drivetrain without taking into consideration that it would nearly cripple the reverse gear.

 

Dolton Montane DoltonMontane.png

Make this one RWD.  It makes absolutely no sense that a long bed pickup would be FWD.  Don't get me wrong, they do exist, but they're very few and far between for a reason.

 

Nulander Pioneer NomadOutlandPioneer.png

Give this one its old suspension back.  Now it sits lower than intended and the front wheels clip through the fenders when you steer.

 

Packer Vaquero PackerVaquero.png

The old handling was insane, but it was a lot more fun to drive.  Currently it handles more like a lifted Mikro.  Revert to original handling.

 

Patriot Vegas PatriotVegasG20.png

It originally had suspension, now it just drives like it's on a solid axle.  Give it some half decent, somewhat hard suspension.  Revert the engine sound.

 

Patriot Vegas 4x4 PatriotVegasG20.png

Don't touch the handling, speed or torque.  These are what make it actually fun to drive.  Reduce health a little bit to make it less tanky.  Revert the engine sound.

 

 Balkan Ravan,  Macchina Cosenza, Han Cellante  BalkanRavan.pngMacchinaCalabriaCosenza.pngno_picture.png

Make their performance unique from each other.  Currently they all handle pretty much the same and don't have any redeeming qualities.  Also make the Han Cellante purchasable.  You can't currently obtain it in any way and it was the original starter car pre-G1

 

Varzuga Rally  BalkanVarzuga.png

Make a customizable & tradeable version available (possibly through the new contacts? 2-slot version from contacts and 3-slot from Armas?)

 

"Faction Locked" Vehicles  BishadaGX8800.pngChargeMikro.pngSeiyoEspacio.pngPatriotV20Jericho.pngPackerVaquero.pngNomadOutlandPioneer.png

They're no longer locked behind a faction wall at this point so I see no reason that they need to be the same (I'm aware the Pioneer and Espacio are different) but the Vaquero and Mikro are pretty much the same, one is just bouncier, and the Jericho and Rapier perform pretty much exactly the same.  The Jericho just has a little more grip when accelerating.

I don't really have any suggestions for these four (other than reverting the Vaquero) but I feel like they should be tweaked to feel a little more different.  Just a thought.

 

Io Growl no_picture.png

Raise the collision boxes on the bottom of the car slightly to make it a little more forgiving with curbs/small ledges so it doesn't get hung up so easily.

 

Dolton Fresno DoltonFresno.png

This car seems good as is to be honest, maybe just reduce the repair time by a little bit.  It's a big heavy road boat made for bullying other cars.  It fits its niche.

 

Balkan Kolva no_picture.png

Return to its original stats.  Way back when, they had suspension, weighed less, accelerated faster, and were able to be knocked over if you give them a good T bone with a Fresno or T-25.  Sure it was easier to get speed to greif players, but they could also be put out of commission very easily.  Currently if someone is griefing the only way to deal with them is to either box them in with another Kolva, or wedge a Mikro under it to flip it over which can be really hard to do.  Back then you just had to hit them in the side with another somewhat heavy vehicle with a good amount of torque.

 

Benkz Mhuller (I don't remember how to spell it lol) The Armored Van no_picture.png

Fix wheel alignment.  Currently it always pulls to the left.

Increase Weight & Torque.  When I look at these things with their bullbars and heavily armored exterior, I think "Hey that thing could plow through an intersection without any problems!".  It could if it was just an intersection of Ciscos.  Medium-Heavy vehicles stop this thing in its tracks.  It doesn't have enough pushing power for what it is and is just over all very underwhelming to drive.  I feel like it should be able to bully a Pioneer but that might be taking it a little far.

Possibly Allow Passengers in rear (There are animations for it, feature just not implemented, was at one point but removed) Probably unbalanced.

 

Charge Cisco (AKA "Hockey Puck") ChargeCisco.png

This thing gets bullied around way too easily and is pretty boring to drive.

Add Weight

Increase Torque to compensate and maintain its current acceleration speed.

Increase tire grip.

Despite being in the "top tier" of vehicles with the Vegas, The Cisco is very bland when it comes to handling.  It's almost too stable and seems like it just kinda hovers.

 

Suggested by M72_LAW:  Move the Cisco's center of mass more towards the front of the vehicle.

 

Charge Sentinel ChargeSentinel.png

A car that nobody uses.  Slower than the Kurai, but does handle a lot differently so matching the Kurai's speed wouldn't make it feel too samey.  

Increase Speed to 21.8 m/s

 

Packer Ceresco PackerCeresco.png

Increase Speed to 20.5 m/s

Make rear passengers able to move to rear doors (There are animations for it, feature just is not implemented)

When in the back of the van Pressing A or D could make you lean out of the side, but pressing S could make you open the rear doors to shoot from.

 

Seiyo Espacio SeiyoEspacio.png

Convert to AWD, tweak stats as needed afterwards.  Might be overkill at first but it should be AWD regardless and should be rebalanced around that to properly compete with the Pioneer.

 

Nulander Kurai Nomad-OutlandKurai.png

Seems decent as is but could be a little better.  Tighten the turning radius a little bit.

 

Dolton Broadwing DoltonBroadwing.png

Increase Torque a little bit. 

 

Han Veo HanVeo.png

Increase top speed to 22 m/s

Slightly increase weight and torque to compensate the weight gain

 

Ambulance no_picture.png

I don't have the stats to go off of with this thing, but I can tell from driving it that it feels way too light and airy.  It's also FWD I believe, which just sucks in general.

Convert to AWD

Increase Weight and Torque

 

Any car that I haven't mentioned I either forgot about or I think it's fine as is.

 

All Vehicles

Bring back the camera sway that G1 broke years ago without even knowing it existed *As an option that can be toggled for people who are prone to motion sickness*  

This feature gave an extra sense of speed that the current game is lacking and made APB feel more... alive?  The camera used to bank to the sides as the vehicle turns, starts to shake very slightly and the FOV widens a little at higher speeds, and just in general hovers around a little bit while moving.  APB is currently lacking a sense of speed which makes the driving look really slow and boring.

 

G1 removed it by mistake and refused to acknowledge that it existed by saying that the videos provided were edited despite any video you watch from that time period having it.  It's a subtle effect but it's there.  Currently all that happens is the camera falls behind the car a little bit depending on speed.  Other than that, it's completely static aside from being able to turn it.

 

 

With the EMP grenades coming soon, that alone will be a big nerf to every vehicle, including the already useless ones, so I feel we need to come up with ways to make vehicles still fun to use.

 

Prototype Districts for vehicles in Financial.

Prototype District A with the above suggestions.

And maybe a Prototype District B with all the original 2010 vehicle stats just for fun?

Edited by BrandonBranderson
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On 1/23/2020 at 3:56 PM, BrandonBranderson said:

As stated here: https://www.gamersfirst.com/apb/news/2020/1/20/hitting-the-road-map   There will be balance passes in the future for vehicles.  Here's a few suggestions that I'd personally like to see.  Not all are necessarily "balance" suggestions, some are just to make them more fun to drive, or in one case to make the vehicle itself actually make sense.

 

Sungnyemun Moirai SungnyemunMoirai.png

Give it AWD like it originally had.  Years ago G1 decided it was alright to remove the front drivetrain without taking into consideration that it would nearly cripple the reverse gear.

 

Dolton Montane DoltonMontane.png

Make this one RWD.  It makes absolutely no sense that a long bed pickup would be FWD.  Don't get me wrong, they do exist, but they're very few and far between for a reason.

 

Nulander Pioneer NomadOutlandPioneer.png

Give this one its old suspension back.  Now it sits lower than intended and the front wheels clip through the fenders when you steer.

 

Packer Vaquero PackerVaquero.png

The old handling was insane, but it was a lot more fun to drive.  Currently it handles more like a lifted Mikro.  Revert to original handling.

 

Patriot Vegas PatriotVegasG20.png

It originally had suspension, now it just drives like it's on a solid axle.  Give it some half decent, somewhat hard suspension.  Revert the engine sound.

 

Patriot Vegas 4x4 PatriotVegasG20.png

Don't touch the handling, speed or torque.  These are what make it actually fun to drive.  Reduce health a little bit to make it less tanky.  Revert the engine sound.

 

 Balkan Ravan,  Macchina Cosenza, Han Cellante  BalkanRavan.pngMacchinaCalabriaCosenza.pngno_picture.png

Make their performance unique from each other.  Currently they all handle pretty much the same and don't have any redeeming qualities.  Also make the Han Cellante purchasable.  You can't currently obtain it in any way and it was the original starter car pre-G1

 

Varzuga Rally  BalkanVarzuga.png

Make a customizable & tradeable version available (possibly through the new contacts? 2-slot version from contacts and 3-slot from Armas?)

 

"Faction Locked" Vehicles  BishadaGX8800.pngChargeMikro.pngSeiyoEspacio.pngPatriotV20Jericho.pngPackerVaquero.pngNomadOutlandPioneer.png

They're no longer locked behind a faction wall at this point so I see no reason that they need to be the same (I'm aware the Pioneer and Espacio are different) but the Vaquero and Mikro are pretty much the same, one is just bouncier, and the Jericho and Rapier perform pretty much exactly the same.  The Jericho just has a little more grip when accelerating.

I don't really have any suggestions for these four (other than reverting the Vaquero) but I feel like they should be tweaked to feel a little more different.  Just a thought.

 

Io Growl no_picture.png

Raise the collision boxes on the bottom of the car slightly to make it a little more forgiving with curbs/small ledges so it doesn't get hung up so easily.

 

Dolton Fresno DoltonFresno.png

This car seems good as is to be honest, maybe just reduce the repair time by a little bit.  It's a big heavy road boat made for bullying other cars.  It fits its niche.

 

Balkan Kolva no_picture.png

Return to its original stats.  Way back when, they had suspension, weighed less, accelerated faster, and were able to be knocked over if you give them a good T bone with a Fresno or T-25.  Sure it was easier to get speed to greif players, but they could also be put out of commission very easily.  Currently if someone is griefing the only way to deal with them is to either box them in with another Kolva, or wedge a Mikro under it to flip it over which can be really hard to do.  Back then you just had to hit them in the side with another somewhat heavy vehicle with a good amount of torque.

 

Benkz Mhuller (I don't remember how to spell it lol) The Armored Van no_picture.png

Fix wheel alignment.  Currently it always pulls to the left.

Increase Weight & Torque.  When I look at these things with their bullbars and heavily armored exterior, I think "Hey that thing could plow through an intersection without any problems!".  It could if it was just an intersection of Ciscos.  Medium-Heavy vehicles stop this thing in its tracks.  It doesn't have enough pushing power for what it is and is just over all very underwhelming to drive.  I feel like it should be able to bully a Pioneer but that might be taking it a little far.

Possibly Allow Passengers in rear (There are animations for it, feature just not implemented, was at one point but removed) Probably unbalanced.

 

Charge Cisco (AKA "Hockey Puck") ChargeCisco.png

This thing gets bullied around way too easily and is pretty boring to drive.

Add Weight

Increase Torque to compensate and maintain its current acceleration speed.

Increase tire grip.

Despite being in the "top tier" of vehicles with the Vegas, The Cisco is very bland when it comes to handling.  It's almost too stable and seems like it just kinda hovers.

 

Charge Sentinel ChargeSentinel.png

A car that nobody uses.  Slower than the Kurai, but does handle a lot differently so matching the Kurai's speed wouldn't make it feel too samey.  

Increase Speed to 21.8 m/s

 

Packer Ceresco PackerCeresco.png

Increase Speed to 20.5 m/s

Make rear passengers able to move to rear doors (There are animations for it, feature just is not implemented)

 

Seiyo Espacio SeiyoEspacio.png

Convert to AWD, tweak stats as needed afterwards.  Might be overkill at first but it should be AWD regardless and should be rebalanced around that to properly compete with the Pioneer.

 

Nulander Kurai Nomad-OutlandKurai.png

Seems decent as is but could be a little better.  Tighten the turning radius a little bit.

 

Dolton Broadwing DoltonBroadwing.png

Increase Torque a little bit. 

 

Han Veo HanVeo.png

Increase top speed to 22 m/s

Slightly increase weight and torque to compensate the weight gain

 

Ambulance no_picture.png

I don't have the stats to go off of with this thing, but I can tell from driving it that it feels way too light and airy.  It's also FWD I believe, which just sucks in general.

Convert to AWD

Increase Weight and Torque

 

Any car that I haven't mentioned I either forgot about or I think it's fine as is.

 

All Vehicles

Bring back the camera sway that G1 broke years ago without even knowing it existed *As an option that can be toggled for people who are prone to motion sickness*  

This feature gave an extra sense of speed that the current game is lacking and made APB feel more... alive?  The camera used to bank to the sides as the vehicle turns, starts to shake very slightly and the FOV widens a little at higher speeds, and just in general hovers around a little bit while moving.  APB is currently lacking a sense of speed which makes the driving look really slow and boring.

 

G1 removed it by mistake and refused to acknowledge that it existed by saying that the videos provided were edited despite any video you watch from that time period having it.  It's a subtle effect but it's there.  Currently all that happens is the camera falls behind the car a little bit depending on speed.  Other than that, it's completely static aside from being able to turn it.

 

 

With the EMP grenades coming soon, that alone will be a big nerf to every vehicle, including the already useless ones, so I feel we need to come up with ways to make vehicles still fun to use.

Another problem with the moirai is that the rear wheels tend to lift off during hard braking, causing unnecessary oversteer. AWD should fix that. 

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The biggest problem with Charge Cisco is the center of mass. It is way too far behind at the moment. One would expect the large engine to move mass towards the front and make it grip well in turns, but instead all of the weight sit in the trunk for some reason. This makes the car very floaty to drive at the moment.

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A vehicle like this could be an interesting addition to the game.

 

Sisu XA-180 "Pasi"  is a 6x6 armored personnel carrier, designed in the 1980's. It is used not only by UN peace keeping units and a few militaries, but also the Finnish police as an extreme SWAT vehicle. It is protected against small arms fire but remains vulnerable to most explosives. Therefore it would be the strongest player-owned vehicle, but by no means indestructible. The mass of this vehicle is 13500 kg, meaning it is considered as a truck, and would be way heavier than any current car. It would still be a lot lighter than the Kolva truck, which is definitely heavier than a two-axle truck could really be. It's powered by a 240 horsepower turbocharged diesel engine and can reach the speed of 105 km/h.

 

Check this video, it has been set to start at an appropriate time.

 

 

Although an email from the in-game contact Ernst "Mule" Templeton mentions how there would not be enough space for an APC in the city, it would not be much less manouverable than say, a Pioneer. It would only make sense to have some armor in such a hostile environment as San Paro.

 

It could easily seat a driver and three passengers. The passenger sitting in the front could shoot through the commander's roof hatch, and there could be two more roof hatches closer to the back of the vehicle. There are doors in the front for the driver and the "commander", but the two other players would climb through the rear doors. Unless a unique APC model was made.

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On 1/25/2020 at 9:20 AM, M72_LAW said:

A vehicle like this could be an interesting addition to the game.

I feel like this needs its own thread.  My post is a suggestion on how to improve vehicles that are already in the game.  I agree with you about the Cisco's center of mass being too far towards the rear though.  I'll add that to the op.

Edited by BrandonBranderson

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The Fresno and Cisco are my two vehicles of choice, and I would mainly agree, though does adding weight to the Cisco just mean its mass vs other vehicles or would it actually carry more momentum? Its steering and drifting are finicky enough as is, and I think a center of mass shift forward would cause it to spin out even harder, no? That said, I'm TOTALLY down for better traction on the baby. But the thing being easy to bully is kind of its punishment for high speed.

 

And this might be my bias kicking in, but could Fresno get like just the tiiiiiniest bit more starting torque? I'm not even talking double-digit percents here. Just a tiny bit more.

 

Also, it would be broken as hell, but I'd love it if you could fire LMGs/ Snipers out the back of any double-door vans. I think you could only justify it as being a 90-135 degree cone pointed straight back with the gunner having effectively no cover, but it would still be cool. (Though without EXTENSIVE playtesting, I don't think it would be balanced.)

Edited by Rehtaelle

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On 1/29/2020 at 5:39 AM, Rehtaelle said:

though does adding weight to the Cisco just mean its mass vs other vehicles or would it actually carry more momentum?

Both, If the car were to have more mass then naturally it would carry more momentum too, so maybe the brakes would need tweaking a bit. 

On 1/29/2020 at 5:39 AM, Rehtaelle said:

Its steering and drifting are finicky enough as is, and I think a center of mass shift forward would cause it to spin out even harder, no? That said, I'm TOTALLY down for better traction on the baby. But the thing being easy to bully is kind of its punishment for high speed.

That's a good point, shifting the center of mass forward might cause it to spin out more.  It should be able to be bullied around by heavy vehicles, but it shouldn't come to a dead stop when it runs into something like a Varzuga or Calabria.  Keep in mind the Cisco is technically a top tier car and speed and handling are really its only redeeming qualities as of right now, and its still a little slower than the Vegas, Bishada, and Jericho, while still being able to be smacked around like its nothing.  It handles great, but a little too great to where it feels like it's just floating.  Part of that I think is that its suspension may be a little too springy.  It doesn't bank when turning at all and I feel like more weight would help balance out the suspension a little bit so its not always 100% extended.  It seems like when G1 redid the vehicle physics, they didn't adjust the Cisco's suspension when they reduced its weight.

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On 1/30/2020 at 9:50 AM, BrandonBranderson said:

Both, If the car were to have more mass then naturally it would carry more momentum too, so maybe the brakes would need tweaking a bit. 

In real life physics, yes, but that may or may not be the case in-game depending on how Unreal handles that.

 

On 1/30/2020 at 9:50 AM, BrandonBranderson said:

Keep in mind the Cisco is technically a top tier car and speed and handling are really its only redeeming qualities as of right now, 

Mind you, speed means getting to objectives faster, which is a very, very powerful trait, and it handles corners way better than the Vegas, so it hits that happy middle-ground.

 

I like Cisco being "light" because that makes it notedly different from the others, it is just too floaty whatever that means, but it's true.

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15 hours ago, Rehtaelle said:

In real life physics, yes, but that may or may not be the case in-game depending on how Unreal handles that.

Momentum is handled the same way as in real life.  The Kolva for example.   It isn't able to plow through full intersections just because of a huge amount of torque, it has just enough torque to get it moving then carry its weight, then when it gets momentum going it makes it easier for it to gain speed because it doesn't have to push as hard.

 

15 hours ago, Rehtaelle said:

Mind you, speed means getting to objectives faster, which is a very, very powerful trait, and it handles corners way better than the Vegas, so it hits that happy middle-ground.

 

I like Cisco being "light" because that makes it notedly different from the others, it is just too floaty whatever that means, but it's true.

While yes that is true, how many people do you actually see using it?  Its health is laughable compared to the Vegas, and to go along with what I was saying earlier, it being bullied around so easily could cost you a mission.  How many people actually use a Cisco often?  Only a handful really.  Hell, I see more people in Vaqueros than Ciscos.    My goal here is to make it a direct competitor for the other top tier cars.

 

The Cisco's weight is the direct cause of it being floaty.  The reason it doesn't grip well is because there isn't enough weight pushing the wheels against the road.  You can see this by the fact that the suspension is always fully extended.  Suspension is supposed to be balanced, not fully extended unless you're airborne or upside down.  You can barely see the suspension compress even when landing a jump because it's so light.  The car being heavier will only improve how it handles.

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Heavier is fine only if it gets more grip, but I see Ciscos often enough unless I'm seeing a car that looks like a modded (cosmetic mods) Cisco. I myself enjoy it when I'm not running my Fresno.

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The game uses few car models. This is the main problem, cars need competition.

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